Rob Cesternino welcomes Survivor 46 alum Charlie Davis to discuss Survivor 48 episode 12.[00:00:00] Coming to you live from my apartment, it's Rob Has a Podcast and now here's a guy who's not hoping for an arms challenge or a legs challenge. I'm Rob's sister Nino. Hello everybody. Welcome back to Rob Has a Podcast. And we have got a great podcast for you here today as we welcome in the runner up from Survivor 46. Here he is. It's Charlie Davis. Charlie, how are you?
[00:00:29] I'm good, Rob. Rob, can I just say those vocals belong in a museum? Oh! Maybe your arms or legs don't, but yeah. Probably not. That's classic. You can't beat it. Thank you. I, you know, that is my instrument and I do try to take care of it whenever possible. Sometimes I do get a little bit hoarse at the end of like a long period of talking or when I go out and see people in person like you did just this week.
[00:00:57] Yes, yes. It's been a packed Survivor week. We're at Luigi's. I was at Luigi's, uh, indulging. I had a whole large cheese pizza, which I was told was what you have to order if you're going there for the first time. And then Bryson when the next night, which was awesome and the Celtics won. So it's been a packed week. Well, yeah, we, we really needed that win. We really needed that one. Yeah. Uh, and then we need two more, but, uh, yeah, it's, it's been a good week. Packs packed.
[00:01:26] And pumped to be here. Uh, lots of Survivor stuff going on this week. So yeah. Interesting Survivor to talk about in a season where it looked a little bit like it was going in one direction. I do think that the game is kind of open and there's a couple of different outcomes that we can talk through. And I am very interested to get your perspective on all of it, because I do feel like that your season and, and your game in particular is very much on the minds of the players here in Survivor 48.
[00:01:55] So we'll get to all of that. Just want to mention my exit interview with Shaheen, uh, was up, had a nice chat with him and thought he had some interesting things to say about, uh, how he was all in on going to the final three with Joe and Eva. He felt like that he was ready to out talk them.
[00:02:16] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do you think are more people thinking that it seems like that's a common thread with a lot of people left in the game right now? I feels like that. That seems like that. That's going to be Kyle's plan. Uh, it seems like that that was, uh, Shaheen's plan. I don't know if, um, you know, that's how Eva is looking at it. I don't know if that's how Mitch is looking at it, but it seems like that, Hey, well, I'll just go to the end and I'll just make my case to the jury.
[00:02:45] Yeah. The jury is always very receptive and the jury is going to listen to all of the arguments and they will sit there and they will listen to what everybody says at the final travel.
[00:02:59] No timers and they'll, no timers and they'll make a decision solely based on what you say in front of them. Objective criteria. And it's a beautiful system. Everyone keeps emotion out of it. Yeah. Yeah. It's cut and dry. It always goes exactly how you think it might. Yeah. It's great. It's great. So good luck to them with all of that. Charlie, what's been going on in your world? Uh, not in survivor.
[00:03:25] Oh, not a whole lot. Just, just a lot and working away. Um, and I passed the bar exam after our season finished airing. That was last summer at this point. Um, and then thank you. I'll still take it. Um, I'm glad that is in the rear view. That was, that was not a fun, uh, time to pivot from the highs of survivor airing to the very low lows of bar exam studying. But, um, now, so now I'm a lawyer and working away.
[00:03:53] And learning a lot and, uh, yeah, just sort of settling into that new routine in Boston. Um, right now I'm just, I'm just pulling for the Celtics. I'm, I'm pretty invested right now. Um, so that's, that's what else is going on. I didn't know that about you. I didn't know you're such a big Celtics fan. Yeah, I'm a pretty big Celtics fan. I used to play fantasy basketball with my, my high school friends for like 10 years. We've kind of petered out, but that, that got me hooked on basketball.
[00:04:17] I just like the Celtics a lot. Um, especially this team. And then it's been some, obviously some, some drama with the Jason Tatum injury. There's going down three to one, losing the first two games at home. So they're kind of killing us right now, but it's been, it's been fun to root for them. Have you always lived in Boston, Charlie?
[00:04:36] In Massachusetts, pretty much. I actually was born in Virginia, but, uh, moved up to Massachusetts when I was 10. So, um, and my parents are from around here. Uh, so like I've been a Boston sports fan my whole life. Yeah. Was it hard to move at that age? Cause that's the age that my kids are at now. It was, um, it was, well, it was very different for me and my sister. My sister was very excited to move and I cried when my parents told us. I was like, no, you're taking me from all my friends.
[00:05:06] Um, but ultimately I've, I've really loved it. I loved growing up in Massachusetts and it was, it was awesome. Once we got settled in and you make new friends and it all works out. Yeah. You don't have a Boston accent that did you feel like that that was something that, uh, was, were you not as accepted at first of that? Hey, you don't talk like the people here.
[00:05:32] So ostracized Rob. No, um, it's, it's less common than you think the Boston accent, but I do have family with a Boston accent. And, uh, even my parents, when they're sort of around, uh, their family, they'll, they'll get a little bit of the accent back, but no, I don't have. When we go back to Long Island, it comes out. Yeah. It's, it's funny when I'm with Jake, uh, from 45 and I'm around him and we're like, Oh, we're both from Boston. People are like, wait, but he's really from Boston.
[00:05:59] Like, where are you from? Yeah. So it is fun. Charlie, let me start with Shaheen who of course, that was out in Fiji with you all way back when, and now you got to see him. First of all, you got to see Rachel come back and play and win. Now you've gotten to see the other alternate from your season. Shaheen come back in and when did, did you feel like that you had a read on how
[00:06:29] the real Shaheen was going to be? I feel like I didn't actually, I think he's been a lot different than I expected. Not, not in any sort of bad or good way necessarily, like just very different. I was expecting a little more chaos, a little more cutthroat, but I think the theme of his game has just been patience. It's been a lot of patience. He's been doing, certainly doing things behind the scenes. He was laying that groundwork on the David vote with everyone.
[00:06:57] So it's not as if he's not being strategic and intentional, but I mean, especially the way that we were all talking about him in our pregame press, you would have thought he was the next coming of Russell Hance or, or something. The way that he was just making an impression on everybody. And he's talked about where he knew he was the alternate and he was trying to make waves where that they were like, Hey, we got to get something out of this guy. So he might've been a little bit of a different personality as the alternate.
[00:07:27] I agree. But my counterpoint is even just thinking to do that is, is a bit of a scheming move right there. So, um, and I'm, you know, he has been scheming. He's been playing, uh, hard and playing his way. Um, but I've, I've, I've really liked watching him play and, and seeing him do it the way he does it. It would have been, I think very different if he was on our season is my guess, but, uh, yeah, he's got a, got a thin fit in with the 48ers.
[00:07:54] So in my conversation with Shaheen this morning, we were talking a little bit about his game and was he ever considering making a move against Joe? Uh, was he ever tempted to do that earlier in the game? And he talked about how that everybody from survivor 40 had just watched survivor 46. And I think that there was a vibe from this cast that people in survivor 46 made moves too often.
[00:08:23] Just to make moves moves that didn't make sense. And that wasn't how they were going to play this season. Yeah. I, I don't know how I feel about this whole being influenced by a prior season. I don't know if it, if it makes a lot of sense because you're just dealing with such limited information.
[00:08:43] And I think ultimately the lesson of 46 isn't necessarily one of, you know, big misplaced moves, maybe a few, uh, early on in the merge. Yeah.
[00:08:57] But aside from that, I wouldn't say that people were just making big moves for the sake of making big moves. Maybe they were big and, uh, unexpected, but I don't think they were, they were not calculated or, or anything like that.
[00:09:14] So I was thinking about this earlier today of, were there really in survivor 46 people making moves just to make moves? And I think that if, if we go through it and I think back, um, I feel like that maybe Tevin and soda, we could put into that category of that. Tevin felt like, okay, I can't beat soda. This is going to be my opportunity.
[00:09:39] We're sure we can vote out Charlie. Uh, and maybe you're saying that, Hey, maybe it was my move to not get voted out, Rob. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, moves are moves. Everything's a move. What? I don't even know what a move is. Who knows? But I agree though. Yeah. And I think that the other one that might've been in that category, which is kind of ironic. I feel like there's a point when Kenzie says, I'm going to vote out Tiffany.
[00:10:06] Cause I got to vote out my number one to show the jury, which ironically does not end up happening. And she does go on to win the season. I think that maybe that's the other one that you could put into that box. And it might be another one that I'm not thinking of off the top of my head. Maybe, maybe Liz gunning for Tevin. Yeah. But I don't even know if that was maybe partly Liz was thinking about that in terms of resume, but there was also just a lot there in terms of who is getting credit for the soda vote.
[00:10:33] And it's always, there's always a lot more going on than just, this is a big move for my resume. I think. Charlie, I'd love to know for you who went out to go play at a similar time of year as the survivor 48 people. So you all had just finished watching survivor 44. That had been the most recent season that had been on. Were there things that you took away from what you just watched that you felt like really shaped the way that you played your game?
[00:11:04] It's a good question. Honestly, I, I'm going to say no. And, and I don't know if that's an expected answer, but I, I wasn't putting as much stock in just the season prior because it was the season prior. Um, of course, you know, I've seen a lot of survivor and you take lessons from, from everything. So I'm not saying I was ignoring 44, but I don't think it, it should hold any particular weight. Yeah.
[00:11:34] In, in terms of, I think honestly, what might be more impactful and you can let me know what you think of this. I think what's more impactful than the strategy in the season is the social media and the fan response. I think that can affect how people play the game much more than what they're actually seeing on the beach. How so what happened in the social media of survivor 44 that you feel like affected 46?
[00:12:00] I don't even know if it was 44 in particular, but I just think people pay attention to what the fans like. And I think they think about what alliances they want to make in that, in that vein. So maybe for 44 people see like the Tika three and maybe that sort of influenced the Yonu three to a degree, the disaster tribe turned into a trio. I don't, although I don't know. I don't really feel like they were like trying to make it work. Although in the end, they, they all got on the same page in a way.
[00:12:29] Um, but I think that is probably more what 44 had on people's minds is you had this, uh, you know, sort of tight knit alliance that. Bob didn't weave through the merge and made things happen and got to the end. And I guess that was more on my mind than anything else. Um, but I, I mean, is that unique to 44 having, having an alliance that goes to the end of the game and you try to get there all together?
[00:12:59] I don't think so. I'd love to get your take on the episode that we had this week where I really thought that it was such an interesting decision that really hinged on like what Joe had to do. And I thought that Joe was in such a predicament of that. He had to figure out who was lying and who was telling the truth.
[00:13:21] And I feel like that that's not often the case of in survivor where, okay, one person is really faced with the decision of which, which I'm getting two different stories basically of what's going on this from this person or this person. And I have to choose which one is the true version of that story.
[00:13:42] Yeah, it was, it was tough watching him try to figure that out because, and I, I listened to you and Steven talk about this, the whole added piece about there being a potential idol really hamstringed, hamstrung, hamstringed Joe, uh, in terms of the due diligence that he could do on this story.
[00:14:04] Because he was going to, and saying, just kind of vaguely making it clear that he was a little bit sussed out. And I think because of that, no real progress was made in terms of getting to the bottom of it. And I think Joe just sort of had to go where he thought the votes would go rather than going with who, okay, this, this side is telling me the truth. This side is not telling the truth. Yeah.
[00:14:32] How do you think you would have handled being in that situation where, okay, Kyle and Camille are saying one thing, but your closest, more trusted ally is now like, you know, doing a thing. Like the, the, the, can you believe that, that he's doing that? Oh man. I mean, part of me thinks, what is the, what is the, cause we were talking, we were just talking about the idol.
[00:15:02] What is the risk of just full on confronting Shaheen about the idol? Yeah. So do you have, do you have the idol? Do you have an idol? Yeah. Just put, put it all out there. Cause there's like two accusations against Shaheen. He is secretly, he has an idol and also he's trying to vote out Eva, but that with just an idol, which is going to expire at five. Is he actually that dangerous?
[00:15:30] If nobody else is on board with Shaheen's plan to vote out Eva, like just how dangerous is Shaheen, even with this hypothetical idol? Exactly. Which is now that I'm, I guess, talking out live with you, like, I don't know why you wouldn't just confront the full story.
[00:15:50] And maybe it's just generally the fact that you, you know, almost talking to someone who might have an idol about their idol is a little bit taboo because you're just worried something crazy is going to happen with it. But I think that honestly might've been the best way to play it. And I'm sure Shaheen would have immediately just said, you can check everything, everything down to his museum worthy legs. I will subject myself to the full body cavity search here from you, Joe, whatever, whatever you need to do.
[00:16:20] Honestly, I think that's how it would have gone down. And then I don't know how this vote goes, but not well for, not well for Kyle and Camilla. I think, I think they get, they get caught red handed right there and kind of get lucky here in a sense that Joe doesn't go that far. And I'd be curious to know if that was part of the plan at all. Maybe were they planting the seeds of like, don't, don't, don't freak him out. Don't talk about his idol. We don't want him to play it or something like that.
[00:16:47] Or we don't want the idol to come back into the game and maybe get into Mitch's hands. Like we just need to blindside him clean, cut and dry, get the idol out. Something I was thinking about today was that could Joe have used Mitch in any way to get this answer? Because it's unlikely that Shaheen would have this plan potentially. If, if, if it really is that he's thinking that they're going to vote out Eva to like, uh, if, if Joe went to Mitch, like, uh, could he potentially get anything from now?
[00:17:16] Mitch could lie. Also, he's desperate to make a move and then he's not, he's not Joe's friend. Yeah. Right. Could he potentially, you know, uh, get some information about, you know, what, uh, it's hard because I Mitch, Mitch would probably be incentivized to live, but also might be incentivized to throw Shaheen under the bus. I mean, maybe the best play for Mitch though is if he, cause right now, I mean, at least, especially the way that we're being presented at this is Kyle and Camilla's move.
[00:17:44] And we know Mitch is desperate for a move. I mean, maybe in some world he flips it back on Kyle and Camilla. And now then that's probably Mitch's move. Um, something that he can put his name on. He's been, he's been hungry for that one. Uh, so maybe that's Mitch's best play. I, but I, I don't know if, if that's going to help Joe all that much. Cause I think, I think Mitch was more aligned with breaking up this duo than anything else.
[00:18:13] This show is sponsored by better help. Hey everybody, Rob here over the years. I've seen the conversation around mental health shift in a big way. And for the better, there used to be so much stigma around therapy. Like it was something you only turn to when things were falling apart, but now more people are starting to see therapy for what it really is a smart, proactive way to take care of yourself. Still, I get that it can feel tough to take that first step.
[00:18:42] A recent survey showed that 26% of Americans avoid seeking mental health support because they're afraid of being judged. That hesitation doesn't just impact individuals. It affects families, workplaces, and entire communities. This Mental Health Awareness Month, let's normalize asking for help and encourage the people around us to prioritize their well-being. The world works better when people feel better.
[00:19:06] Whether you're dealing with stress, navigating through a tough transition, or just trying to become the best version of yourself, therapy can help you build tools like setting boundaries, improving communication, and learning to manage challenges in a healthier way. BetterHelp has over 10 years of experience connecting people with the right therapist from a diverse network of over 30,000 plus licensed professionals. It's all online, which makes therapy affordable and convenient, and more than 5 million people worldwide have used it. We're all better with help.
[00:19:35] Visit betterhelp.com slash RHAP to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash RHAP. Charlie, what do you think about Joe as a viable winner candidate in this season? I really felt like to me that this was Joe's story, and we were headed towards a Joe victory, but this really changed things for me.
[00:20:02] I feel like for me as well, I think this was a really revealing episode. And I think Joe's story, he's had a lot of control. He's really done a good job keeping this alliance together. But we're being shown so much of people sort of steering Joe and pointing Joe at different people and sort of, I guess, manipulating him with the David vote, now with the Shaheen vote.
[00:20:33] So I do think that there's going to be someone, I don't know if it's going to be Kyle or Camilla, it feels like it's going to be one of them, who's going to make a great case to the jury that, yes, Joe had this great honor and integrity alliance, but he wasn't the one who was deciding who was going home. That was me because XYZ, because of the Shaheen vote, because of the David vote. Yeah.
[00:20:57] Because Charlie, when we look at the makeup of this jury, it's not really a ton of Joe lovers where, you know, we got such a positive depiction of Joe on the show. And I've talked about this, that my mom adores Joe, that greatest guy ever. Man, I was tearing up at the whole segment yesterday. I mean, first of all, what an incredible story and props to Joe for being that vulnerable and sharing all of that last night.
[00:21:26] That was seriously, seriously moving. Yeah. He is a really likable guy. Yeah. I just don't know if it's the type of likability that the jury's going to reward. Let me run through the jury with you and tell me if I'm asking anybody. Okay. Chrissy, who got into it with Joe on the way out. Yep. Yep. You have Cedric, who I think is probably neutral on Joe, but I think would be a vote for Kyle if Kyle is in the final three.
[00:21:56] Yep. Yep. After Cedric and Chrissy went out in the double boot. And then after that, who was it that went out? That was David, right? David, David, of course. David, no fan of Joe. Okay. No. And then after David. And I think those two combined getting Cedric's year might flip him from a neutral to a not Joe. Yeah. If they're talking that long. After that was Star.
[00:22:26] Star, not a huge Joe fan. Probably not. Joe referred to Star as his kryptonite. His kryptonite. Yes. So not a huge fan of Star. Star. And then as a star was Mary, who was remember that sort of awkward conversation about jury management. She was going to write his name down. And then she also then like he said, okay, I'm going to vote for you.
[00:22:55] And she's like, I understand. And she even had like a tweet after the fact and talking about like, but you know, narrator voice. The narrator. She didn't believe anything he said. And then after that, then, you know, now Shaheen, who is going to be a little burned. Going to be a little burned. And also really thought he could beat Joe for sure. So he certainly doesn't view Joe as unbeatable. If he thought he could beat him. I don't know what he thinks of other people's chances.
[00:23:24] But I think there, there's a, I think for the record, I think there's a path for Joe. There's a way that he can frame it where I think he could win. But I think that his competition, be it Kyle, I think I agree with you. I think I'm leaning maybe Kyle in the final three over Camilla. But it could be either one of them at this point.
[00:23:46] Let's talk a little bit about Kyle and Camilla, because I feel like that they talked in the episode and they said, hey, we've got this plan that we're both going to get to the final four. One of us is going to get to the final three. It doesn't seem like that. The idea is, hey, here's how we get both of us to the final three, because I think that they could basically say, hey, final five. We we vote with Mitch and we take out, you know, if Eva doesn't play her idol and George win immunity, take out Joe at the final five. It doesn't seem like that's their plan.
[00:24:16] It's not the way they're talking about it. And it almost reminds me of how it was in the aftermath of the David vote. It's like, OK, we did this. We we broke the status quo for a vote. Then we're right back to now. Everything's normal, right? Everything's normal. It's just fine. So now the normal it seems like it's going to be right back on Mitch to me. Is it just going to go straight back there? I would think it would be unlikely for the change.
[00:24:44] So Kyle and Camilla could go into fire making. And I guess there is a world where there's I'm assuming Joe wins immunity. And maybe if not, Joe, that's a good bet at this point. Yeah, that I feel like we're headed towards a Kyle versus Camilla fire making. I could see it. I could see it in like an allies. It feels like Tony and Sarah. Yeah.
[00:25:12] Tony and Sarah esque showdown where, you know, they go to battle and then they're crying each other's arms after whoever wins. Yeah, I see it. I see it. Yeah. And whoever loses goes to that Ponderosa with a mission. Yeah. A secret weapon for whoever does make it to the final three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think so.
[00:25:35] Well, hopefully, by the way, hopefully sometimes sometimes your ally going there doesn't doesn't sometimes sometimes so. But Charlie, I think that this would be a very different circumstance of that. Like, like I feel like that had had. Had you and Maria gone to final four fire making, you know, and you went to final four fire making. I feel like maybe it's different feelings than the way that it did back out. No, I totally agree.
[00:26:02] And I also think that Kyle and Camilla, to their credit, although potentially incentivizing each other to take each other out to their credit, have set themselves up more as like one of us is getting there. But the other one, good luck. Sorry. Yeah. Even though they are super close and still work together strategically, that's sort of laid out.
[00:26:26] And it feels like it's an understanding to me that I feel like that's more Kyle saying that like maybe Camilla is like, well, like it's better than the alternative that I have. But I feel like that there's not really a lot of pushback of like, what if we both went to the final three? Yeah, there's not. And it's kind of a theme with them is they're they're playing together, but they're also playing on very different sides of the game. Kyle's been in the majority alliance the whole time.
[00:26:54] Camilla has been shielded by Kyle and working with Kyle, but not really counted in it whatsoever. So I think that's Kyle basically saying like, well, I'm in a really great position. And I just got to I got to make sure that Camilla doesn't turn against me. If that's the case, good gameplay by him for sure.
[00:27:15] So this morning I was listening to the On Fire podcast and my alma mater, your alma mater podcast. Your alma potter. And I've listened to every episode. And so they were talking a little bit about how Kyle and Camilla have done that, had this secret alliance throughout the game. And I at times have forgotten that it is a hidden secret alliance.
[00:27:44] I have like the novelty of it has kind of been lost on me at times because as a viewer, it's so not hidden. And it's almost I forget that the other people out there don't know about this because there's they seem like there's so much of a pair to us on television. But it is very interesting to look back at the history of the show to think that I guess has this never happened before?
[00:28:13] Oh, my gosh. I feel like you'd know better than me. But I think part of it is there's very little concrete evidence of they're voting one way unexpectedly relative to the rest of the group. In terms of what everyone can see and for votes on parchment, they're just voting together with the majority.
[00:28:37] So, well, so to be fair, so I feel like I don't know if it's never happened before, because I could think back to, you know, the people that are on this podcast of that. First off, you and Maria had something like that was. That's true. By for a while, not this long, not this long. But for a while, it was like, hey, let's let we're going to be tight and other people won't know. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:29:06] I think there's lots of people who who build their alliances around that. I do just think they get ultimately like it's very hard to hide it, especially if there's divisive moves, if there's unexpected things happening. And it's like, oh, well, who voted for them? And it's like, oh, well, Charlie and Maria did like, OK, they're probably working together. Yeah. Well, they were lucky that they had that one vote where it was that Kyle played his idol.
[00:29:33] And I can't believe, though, even they voted together on that one that like for the Joe and Shaheen to still be in this position, not seeing how close they were. It does seem odd to us, but luckily they were in this big alliance then the whole rest of the way. And people didn't really think about it. It's like the the Russian dolls never got pulled apart enough down to the Kyle and Camilla of it all.
[00:30:02] And yeah, I guess from that outset, maybe Joe and Shaheen just thought that they were just tribe mates trying to stay together during a swap. Maybe and didn't realize that they were actually number one allies. Yeah. We're just friends. We're just friends. Yeah. Can I can I tell you my my theory of how it's going to be most impactful, though, this alliance? Yeah.
[00:30:25] I think whoever is out of them, if either of them is sitting on the final three, is going to have such a huge moment. And I think in particular with David, where they're going to go to David, they're going to say, David, you were exactly right about us. You you you nailed it. You knew it. They're going to validate that whole theory that he had. They're going to say he's going to stand straight up. Stand straight up. He's going to bolt up out of his seat.
[00:30:55] And they're going to say, and we fooled Joe into believing us. And we pulled the wool over his eyes like we have been doing the whole game. And Joe's eyes. David, you. Yeah. Yeah. Hi. Yep. Yep. And then David is going to give some vigorous nods. And he might tell Joe that he broke his word again. And I think that's going to be that's going to be a big moment. That's my prediction. I'm calling my shot. Yeah, that's pretty good. That's going to be good.
[00:31:22] And I do think that we're headed towards a very interesting final tribal council. Me too. Me too. Yeah. I think it's going to be I think it's gonna be really exciting and tense. Very tense. Going back to the secret alliance.
[00:31:38] This was like an idea that I had going into playing in Survivor the Amazon, where this is how long ago I played that I had just watched Danielle Reyes play in Big Brother three and watch her Jason. I don't know if you're a Big Brother person. I know some lore from social media. It gets into my feed. They were the secret alliance.
[00:32:02] And I came into play and I said, I want to find like a maybe a woman who is I don't want to say older, but older than me to be my that people will not think that I was aligned with. And then I was on a tribe of all men. And so I didn't get to. But then we had a swap. And I said, yeah, and I found Dina. And I said, what if like me and you like you like you're smart about the game? And what if you and I worked together?
[00:32:30] I kind of kept it on the DL on the low. Yeah. And it was it was good. Ultimately, it turned out to know that not be where, you know, she didn't look at me as her number one. And it ultimately didn't work out. But the the idea has existed. Nobody's been able to do it as well as Kyle and Camilla. Yeah, I think I think that's that's probably fair to say.
[00:32:56] I think that's that's something they can really hang their hats on of having been super, super hidden the whole season. And the votes, I think, helped them keep it so low key and down low this whole season. But it's still really hard to do. Especially with how much people are walking off and you've basically just got to lie the whole entire game. Kyle's probably got to be telling all sorts of people that he'd be fine voting off Camilla, even though obviously he's not.
[00:33:23] And he's fought to keep her in the game before, which, by the way, he fought to keep her in the game and then convinced the person that sussed that out, convinced everyone else that he had to go. So they've definitely worked hard for it, for sure. Do you think that we're going to see a lot more secret alliances in the future? I think people always try secret alliances like lots of people bill it as no one will expect it. You know, and that's why it's going to be great.
[00:33:53] But I don't think I think the conditions have to be just just so for a secret alliance to be like this. But yeah, people are going to try it 100 percent. Yeah. 100 percent. You know, is secret alliance sort of like the antidote to I have to vote out my number one? Because that then if you and your number one are secret, like why would you ever vote out your secret number one? It's a little bit like it's.
[00:34:20] Then how do you how do you get the how do you get the resume credit for voting out your number one? Yeah. No one knew. No one would know. Right. Like, yeah, you know, Ricard and different different season. You know, they're only from a tribe, but they're sort of like secret number ones. Like, you know, you don't get any credit for voting out your secret number one. No, no, no. That's a good point. Maybe it is like it is never like I got to make my big move and take out Kyle. Yeah, because because that wouldn't do anything.
[00:34:50] It'd just be like, Kyle, you don't even know that guy. Who's he? Yeah. This is smart. That's a good point. Yeah. This could this could be groundbreaking right here. Yeah. Defensive. Defensive. Have a secret number one so that they don't think to try to vote you out to make a jury move. Yeah. It's defense against your alliance partner, which is which is great. Yeah. It's a sign of a strong alliance. Yeah. Let's talk about Kyle in terms of his position now.
[00:35:19] So, OK, here he is at the final five. He's made this move. Do you feel like that all he needs to do is just beat Camilla in a fire and that the game looks like it's his? I think he's got a he's got a great shot if he gets Camilla on the jury, if he's sitting there with Joe and Eva, who, by the way, and I don't I don't think we've talked about this yet. They might be splitting votes, too.
[00:35:48] I could see that. Interesting. So that's a good point of that. Yeah. Are there possibly votes that are boy Joe really irked me at some point? Yeah. But I'm going to sort of split the difference of I'm going to I'm an voter of that. I don't quite like how Joe treated me on the way out the door. But, you know, Eva, she's got a great story. She was you know, she was tough. She found advantages.
[00:36:19] She's an inspiring person. I'm going to vote for Eva. I could I could totally see it. And just just by Eva's own volition, just sort of she might be able to swing a voter to away from Joe at final tribal. Yeah. But for all those reasons, I think I agree. Yeah. But I'm just and I think that there is a path where maybe could she absorb the anti Joe sentiment?
[00:36:44] Are they too like all of all of the anti Joe sent like as in Kyle would maybe only get a couple of votes. Well, hypothetically, let's say an Eva winner. Chrissy is like, you know what? I didn't like how Joe treated me on the way out the door. I'm going to vote for you. Cedric is like, well, you know, inspiring young woman. I'm going to vote for for Eva. David. Is David like he's upset with Joe. Is he upset with Eva?
[00:37:12] I think he's probably upset with both. I mean, they had a relationship from the at the swap. The swap tribe. That's a good point. No, I think. Yeah, I think maybe we're selling Eva's ability to get votes at final tribal short. I think she she's got the chops to make a great case with this jury. And I think she's a good speaker. She'll she'll definitely come out swinging. Um, so, yeah, that's that's a good question.
[00:37:42] So maybe we could be seeing a three finalists getting votes for the first time in a while. For the first time I had in my mind thinking about Eva as a zero vote finalist.
[00:37:52] I felt like that she was going to go up there and I didn't think that she was going to be able to talk about her game with the nuance that I think that maybe you need to describe it with where I feel like that you do need at that final tribal council to be able to like have a little bit of a step back. Look at it from the perspective of the jury and say, okay, like, here are some of the things that you're probably thinking about me.
[00:38:20] And I just don't think that Eva has that read of the jury. That could be that could be I think it is my I don't think she's played at all like in there. There's no hypocrisy to her game in her mind. And I think that she probably needs to acknowledge that to some degree.
[00:38:41] Yeah, I think the big the big question is, how is Eva planning on differentiating her game from Joe and I think that will be the key of if she's able to get as you're saying any traction with the jury. So I don't know. I'm thinking maybe she pitches it like if she could say that she used her idol in a way that protected both of them and that she's really the reason Joe survived when he didn't have immunity because people knew they were so close.
[00:39:09] And she was telling people she would play the idol on him, which she has said before. So maybe there is a world where she's able to pitch it that she and her advantages had a much bigger role than maybe we're giving credit for in terms of getting them there. Yeah, I don't know. What do you think of that? They started this episode this week with like, oh, I didn't play my safety without power. And it was last night to do that. So that's off the table.
[00:39:36] I didn't even that didn't even come up in the last episode that that was the last. I know it wasn't wasn't even a it wasn't even floated as an idea for for Eva to be playing that, which I thought was interesting. But I mean, that confessional, I think maybe is a an insight into what she even might be pitching to the jury. I think she needs to do something. I think she needs to like save Joe with her idol or do something, do something with one of these advantages and not have just like have them the whole time.
[00:40:04] I do wonder, I think this maybe is the most interesting final tribal council scenario where. Yeah. OK, Mitch goes out at five. Camilla beats Kyle in the fire. And now the final three is Joe, Eva and Camilla. And Camilla is going to have a lot that she's going to reveal, a lot of surprises. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Do you think that she could sway the jury who might be coming in saying, what did you even do?
[00:40:36] I think it's a big lift there. And a lot of it would depend on Kyle. You'd have to really. How do you mean a big lift? You feel like that she has a lot of work to do. Yeah. Saving so much for final tribal council. It's a tall order. I think that was a mistake of my game. Yeah. Can you talk through Charlie? Because that. Yeah. That it's it's been a minute since I attended a final. I've never sat in and spoken at the final tribal council.
[00:41:04] So I don't know, like timing wise, how much time do you have to be able to deliver all this? It's long. It's definitely long. Time is so hard to figure out out there. I would say like 90 minutes to two hours worth of time of questioning. And that's not you know, you don't get to structure your speech as much as maybe you would you would want to just because of the question and answer format.
[00:41:31] But it's it's tricky because because you can't give just a free form speech of whatever you want to talk about. You have to weave in everything to the questions that you're being given. And it can be hard to hit on exactly everything that you want to, that you want everyone to know about. And you want to connect all these dots in a beautiful way. And you just sort of have to rough it and get as much out there as you can. And you're dealing with people who maybe don't have their minds fully made up.
[00:42:01] I believe people come in somewhat open minded. But I think people, everyone leans away one way or another, whether they admit it or not. So that makes the mountain that much harder to climb in that time. Did you feel like that you had enough time to be able to say all the things you wanted to say? Because I don't think that people that fans who are going to play have really any idea what to expect of what a real time final travel council is like pacing wise.
[00:42:32] Yeah, definitely not. Definitely not. I felt like I had so much more that I prepared to be able to say that I didn't get to say. I got to say a lot. Don't get me wrong. I said a lot of what I hoped. I hit on the themes that I wanted to hit on. But there was so much that I could have, if I was able to, talked about for so much longer. And I think from talking to folks in prior seasons, it sounds like other tribal councils may have gone on way longer than ours.
[00:43:02] And we had sort of the jury with the timer and a more concerted effort to move things along compared to other seasons where it sounds like 43, for example. Sounds like they were going on forever. And Gabler was able to give super long answers to everything and talk about everything under the sun. You know, all the minutes for the state of Alaska, yada, yada, yada. So I think that it can vary season to season.
[00:43:28] Did you have anything that you had held back, like these surprises for the jury? Because you said that you felt like that you had too much that you had not been able to let them know until then. Yeah, good question. I'm trying to think if there's anything that comes to top of mind. I think I talked about my biggest points.
[00:43:52] I think, I guess if there was some things or a group of things that I didn't get to talk about, it was really just like getting to easily talk about the relationships that I had built. Like, for example, at the vote where Soda went out, that was, you know, it looked like I was dead in the water.
[00:44:16] But I had put so much time into building an alliance with Kevin and like we called it the Davis Bros and an alliance with Soda that I was like actually feeling okay with that. And I thought that, you know, that was just indicative of what a good job I was doing building alliances out there. So things like that. You know, I didn't really play like a bombshell type game. I didn't have any one specific thing that was going to, you know, knock the socks off the jury.
[00:44:45] It was more just like trying to tell a complete story of everything I did at every vote. But yeah, it's hard to tell that story when you're getting one question about one subject and then a completely different question following that up right afterwards. I think it's hard to time the bombshell. Also, I'm trying to think back to Marianne. She brought out the idol that she had and Mike had played an idol for her.
[00:45:14] And I think that came up in like maybe the last question that she had gotten from the jury. And I think about Dee, who then I think that she waited for Austin to mention something about that particular vote. And she's like, well, actually what happened was and then she used that point. I think for Kyle or and especially for Camilla, I don't know if she necessarily wants to open with, hey, just so you all know, I had a secret alliance with Kyle and like get it all out of the way.
[00:45:43] I feel like that these things have a bigger impact. They land bigger when they come up in the questioning. I think that's true because you're you're letting someone on the jury lead you there rather than you're just telling something unsolicited. Yeah, I think that's I think that's definitely true. I think the jury wants to feel that they asked a good question that uncovered something interesting that caused a big moment at tribal council.
[00:46:13] And I think it is way bigger when you can sort of counter someone also that's sitting next to you in the final three rather than just like in an opening statement. That's actually a good example, but it's not something I didn't get to say. But our final tribal council, there was a moment. I can't remember exactly what Kenzie said, but I basically had like direct concrete proof that it was wrong. And, you know, I obviously took that moment to be like, hey, that's not what happened. Like I actually did this in X, Y and Z.
[00:46:40] And I saw that land like very well with the jury. I don't think that made the final cut, but but I do remember times like that where that's where it felt like it was really going well when you're you're more in the mix of it all rather than just an opening statement or even a closing statement. OK, Charlie. So please forgive me if I'm getting things totally wrong. I wanted to ask you about in your profession, in in the field of law.
[00:47:10] Yes. Lawyers dreaded lawyers. Yeah. Will lawyers look at this where we talk about like the final tribal council, where if there is like this like this great piece of of evidence that will help like make the case one way or another rather than like having the opening statements. Does a lawyer try to structure things so that it comes out in the cross examination and have that same kind of impact?
[00:47:40] I think, well, first of all, let's just rewind. I'm not that kind of lawyer. Yeah. A lot of people don't realize it's like half of lawyers don't even touch the courtroom unless something goes really bad and they're in there for the wrong reasons. So that's not even the kind of lawyer that I am. But so I mean, nothing has gone wrong. That's the good. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Exactly. The only reason I was in the court was to get sworn in to the bar.
[00:48:09] But what I think I'll give an example that maybe people will remember. You probably know this line. If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit. Yes. And that was a dramatic spur of the moment idea that came about. We're talking about OJ, by the way, for anyone who wasn't for anyone who wasn't familiar, that the OJ's defense team thought of that in the moment.
[00:48:39] They said, let him try the gloves on. And he made this big show of showing how his hands wouldn't fit in the gloves. And that was very memorable. And then, of course, you get that beautiful line. If the gloves don't fit, you must acquit. That wasn't rehearsed. He didn't know that the gloves would be even able to be tried on. So I think it's a great point that the most dramatic and memorable and flashy things are much more impromptu. Not exactly planned out. Yeah.
[00:49:05] And it's hard, though, to, you know, try to create those moments because by their very nature are things that seem spontaneous. Yes. Yes. And also, I think at Final Tribal, you run the risk of when you say something. And even if just one person on the jury is saying, oh, that didn't happen. And who knows? Maybe it did. Maybe it didn't.
[00:49:31] But probably both people are living their truths in that moment where the juror is denying it and the finalist is saying it did happen. If that juror then tells the whole jury that's not how that happened, then it makes you look silly. It makes you look completely silly. And I think they get this. The jurors sort of sometimes stick behind each other and you could really get screwed by someone denying a big move that you think you made.
[00:49:55] So to go back to Camilla and some of the things that she has to do in the final tribal council, it would be, I think, a very interesting vote in terms of like how this jury might end up going between whatever sort of maybe anti-Joe sentiment. And maybe that there is positive Eva sentiment. And then is there enough?
[00:50:19] Because you have all these people who are going to have been on the bottom of the Mitch's, the Mary's, the stars, the people who were like, hey, let's make a move. They know it was that from their perspective, that's their champion. Their avatar has made it to the final three. Yeah. No, I could totally see that.
[00:50:38] I've got to imagine that Mitch is feeling awesome about his time working with Camilla at this point, having wanted to make a move for so long and finally pulling one off against Shaheen. And that I think there is going to be that, that bond, that bond of the bottom feeders. That's going to come. Too bad we couldn't have gotten Mitch's. Like, wouldn't you want to have seen in the episode of like when they tell Mitch, finally, they're going to make like we're voting out like one of the other people.
[00:51:07] It's not going to be you tonight. Like, do you think we would have gotten up? He would have. He would have been a yes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Maybe not me tonight. Yeah. That would have been a fun moment if we would have got that. Yeah. Yeah. But so now, like if we're looking at that, Mitch, Mary, Star, Kyle, I do feel like that Camilla has got this like, like four votes off the bat.
[00:51:35] And yeah, you got to pick up one more or even Joe's got to split a vote. If he even gets a vote, that's a Camilla win. Hey, look at now. Look at now. I'm a believer. The hardest thing she has to do is make the fire. And maybe Kyle. She's got to get there. Maybe Kyle pulled like a Sam Phelan. He didn't practice at all. Maybe he didn't practice. Hey, I could totally see it. And maybe Camilla's a fire whiz. We have absolutely no idea.
[00:52:05] You know, we saw all sorts of varied fire results over the past couple of seasons. So truly anything could happen there. But no, I totally could see that all the the universally, you know, pushed aside players really not taking to this unstoppable honor juggernaut that's dominated the season.
[00:52:26] The thing that would be surprising to me about the Camilla win is that just from watching the show, I feel like that it's been more Kyle story that we've seen. And it doesn't mean that this can't be. And she could have a big finale also. Absolutely. Yeah, there's lots to be happened. But I agree. It's been more of a Kyle lens. More of a Kyle lens. Yeah. Hey Sandra, wir haben uns ja lange nicht mehr gesehen.
[00:52:56] Grüß dich, Nadine. Mensch, du siehst ja toll aus. Ja, danke. Ich hab mein Plus fürs gesündere Ich entdeckt. Was? Komm, ich zeig's dir. Die Bewegungskurse der AOK Plus. Kostenfrei für AOK Plus Versicherte. Entdecke dein Plus fürs gesündere Ich und starte mit unserem Selfcheck. Ganz einfach online auf aok.de. Aus Liebe zur Gesundheit. AOK Plus.
[00:53:23] I'd love to talk about that challenge that Shaheen won. Shaheen talked about how that he was very disappointed. He hadn't won anything. And then ultimately he wins this challenge. He was looking for a legs challenge instead of a arms challenge or a wrist challenge. Now, Charlie, correct me if I'm wrong. Would you say that the arms challenge, the wrist challenge, this is your forte? No, you're wrong. I'm correcting you.
[00:53:53] You're wrong. Yeah. So you're more of a legs challenge. Well, I don't know if I'm more of a legs challenge, but here's what I'll say is I think people get grip strength twisted a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Let me know. Charlie, I got these things recently. Oh! Oh! What's the right thing to use? I got the squeezer or I got the donut? What's the move? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those are good. They're both good. Yeah. You can do a switch.
[00:54:20] You can do max reps on one hand, then switch to the other, then keep doing that until you can't squeeze anymore. That's a good workout. Those are good, though. Hey, I like it. I like it. You came prepared. Are you doing that just under the table right now? I don't have a whole podcast. Just constantly? I crush a coconut with one hand. Yeah, I believe it. That'd be a lot of training time for you. Yeah. Um, that's very specific, though, right?
[00:54:48] Like, that wouldn't have helped you at all in this challenge that we saw today, which I don't even know what that would be. What, like, shoulders or lats or something? I don't know. Is it a tricep? Are you holding? Yeah. Or like a peck? I have no idea. We'll have to ask them, what muscles did that work? But no, I don't think this is something I would have been particularly good at. Um, I don't know what challenges I'm best at. I guess grip ones.
[00:55:17] Um, but yeah, this one, I don't know. I don't know if I would have taken to it. It looks really tough. Yeah. Okay. So Shaheen had a difficult decision to make. He had to take people with him to go on the reward. And Jess also let them know. Now I believe that, uh, that Jeff let them know they would get their letters before the challenge.
[00:55:43] And correct me if I'm wrong in your season, that that was sprung on you after the challenge. It was. It was. And honestly, it was, I don't know what we were thinking, but we'd been talking about the family reward the whole, like all the time. And then it totally slipped my mind during that challenge. I completely forgot that it was going to be a thing. So I don't know whether they maybe knew that we'd sort of stopped talking about it as much. And that's why they sprung it on us.
[00:56:13] But yeah, that was truly, I don't know. I just guess I zoned out, but yeah, that was a shock when, when he told us after the challenge. Yeah. And we saw that Shaheen made these selections. Part of the, the, the reason why he picked Joe, cause Joe is the person that has kids. I have to take him. Uh, he mentioned that with me on the exit interview today as well. Yeah. Mitch and Camille says, Hey, why are you fueling Joe?
[00:56:42] You just lost the game with that, with that pick. Yeah. Ironically, it was the other pick of going with Kyle. And then there's the conversation with Kyle, which ends up sort of like being the thing that snowballs and maybe, maybe everything still happens exactly the same. Uh, if Kyle doesn't get picked. Uh, but that ended up being like the thing ironically, which ends up hurting more. Yeah.
[00:57:05] I, I was surprised that part of, part of why I was surprised that Joe didn't, you know, more believe Shaheen was because I felt like Joe would have put a lot of stock in. And Shaheen picking him for this and for just the overall emotional bond that you get on that reward. That's, that's pretty significant.
[00:57:29] Um, so I was kind of surprised that it was not the, the feeding and the immunity that really shook up the episode today, but the fact, yeah, Kyle was there and started, started really spinning those wheels. Yeah. Yeah. That loved ones visit letters visit, like it's, it is such a curse. Yeah. It's tough. It's tough. Um, it's not a fun position. Because nobody votes for you at the final tribal council because you gave me my letter. I love you. I'll do anything for you.
[00:57:59] But the people that don't know, they get that. They don't, they get very upset if they don't get it. Very, very upset. The people that do get it, they don't appreciate it. And the people that don't get to get very mad. Yeah. It's really, it's brutal. The double-edged sword. Yeah. And it hits hard too. Yeah. No, it's a good point. Um, I mean, geez, survivors, like the history of survivors, like littered with the graveyards of, uh, the poor family reward winners. Like who had it worse? Probably, um, Brenda.
[00:58:29] Brenda had to have had that. The absolute worst. For sure. Yeah. Where that, uh, she ends up, uh, like she, she tried to take Dawn and she didn't take Dawn. And then, uh, then she did get voted out by Dawn ultimately. So brutal. Even though, cause what, she traded her and Dawn's spot for everyone's spot. For everybody else to get their loved ones. I believe it's too loved ones.
[00:58:56] And got just absolutely obliterated for it. Like they just did it. They didn't care at all. They voted her out right away. I mean, honestly, probably one of the most brutal vote outs. It's a tough episode. Certainly of that era. Yeah. Because they went on a barbecue and they were on like a barge and they were like only like, you know, like a hundred feet away. Like they could see them probably smell the barbecue.
[00:59:21] And Dawn was dressed like, uh, having a little bit of a emotional moment during all of that. And Brenda was like, Oh, I'll make you rice. Don't worry. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Brutal. Brutal. So yeah, I don't know. Maybe, maybe since they had fair warning and didn't forget it was the family reward. Maybe that's when you try to throw, but it's also, I mean, it's hard to, to keep your, your heart out of that one.
[00:59:49] I mean, everyone just really wants to go. They really want that. It's such a special thing to share with your family after it's really emotional. Like they get to see the letters they wrote on TV. They do like, now they do like picture montages. So it's, it's high stakes. We talked about this with the rice negotiation. I think it was, it was it last week or was it the week before that they tried to do the rice negotiation? It was day 19 and weeks ago. Yeah. And here we are.
[01:00:17] I think it's day 23 in the game when we're doing it. Maybe it's like 20, 22 or 21. Does that, does getting close to the end of the game, do you think change anything? Or it's like, like, you know, you're going to get the letter. It's just, you're just going to get it in like three days. Like, you would think, you would think, but honestly, it didn't, it didn't on, uh, I guess
[01:00:42] the, the people who stayed back today, this episode, they weren't really that upset about missing. I'm sure they were, but about missing out on the letters. They were more mad about Joe getting fueled for the immunity challenge. But then again, on 46, we saw a very different story. Like Maria was distraught over not going on the reward. Um, so I, I think it's still holds weight.
[01:01:11] It's still holds weight, even though there's not that much longer. I just think it is that it's that feeling that they actually get to participate in your survivor experience, even just a little bit that you want so badly. Um, and just the comfort from home is really nice. Like I bawled like a baby reading those letters. It was, it was really incredible. Um, and yeah, you just want that little bit of comfort so badly.
[01:01:39] Did you have overnight also with the letters? We did not. We did not. We just had the, uh, the evening of Chinese food and, and the letters. We were there a while though. We got to relax in the hammock. It was, it was awesome. Yeah. At the sanctuary. Yeah. At the sanctuary where good things happen and good things happen. We ate a lot of food. We ate a lot of food. Probably too much food. I think I was really sick after that reward. Yeah.
[01:02:04] Is there a secret to trying to know the right amount to eat at these rewards? If there is, I didn't figure it out. I was just stuffing my face and, and the people out there can, can attest. Like I would get really sick after the rewards. I probably overate a lot. Um, but it's hard to, it's hard to pace yourself because you don't want to pace yourself and your stomach gets so small.
[01:02:29] When you get sick though, uh, do you like Lou, is it like a net loss after like I've, I've eaten, but now I got sick. Am I like right back where I started or you still have like, there's a, well, I didn't, I guess I never threw up. I never threw up. I didn't, I didn't. Yes. Yeah. I just felt like crap. It's not fun. Just like I could, you know, just kind of crumpled in a ball and trying to get through it.
[01:02:55] Um, so, but here's what I'll say is I never won a challenge directly after getting a reward. So maybe you were a little sluggish. Maybe I was sluggish or I don't know. I just don't think it, it necessarily is an auto help that, that you're going to get that much extra fuel. You're still just so depleted out there no matter what.
[01:03:21] Um, it may make you a little happier having a, having a full belly, but I don't know if it's like the ultimate immunity edge or not. I don't know. So I'm gonna have to do the analytics on that. Okay. I want to bring in some questions from the listeners. All right. How about from Will Harrington? Uh, does Charlie have any good beard guy stories to share from pregame? Any good beard guy stories?
[01:03:45] Um, and what was it was we, did you have positive vibes about guy if we went back and watch the Charlie 46 preseason interview? I actually don't think I talked about him much. Um, because I guess this is a story. Um, I had an inkling that he was the alternate. Um, and I've, I've told, uh, Shaheen about this SD.
[01:04:10] Uh, I had an inkling that he was the, the alternate, um, partially because of all of the antics, but as it went on, it sort of became clear. And I think actually at one of the press days where we're, we're talking to all the, you know, the Mike blooms of the world, uh, he put on a note that he was like, sorry guys, like it's not me. And I remember seeing that. I was like, okay, so he is the alternate. Um, so that's, I guess a beard guy story, but I'm trying to think if I have anything
[01:04:40] better. Um, what I really remember is he would do very vigorous nodding. Like he would nod at you like really intensely, like a big, a big windup of a nod and kind of smile at you. Like you knew when you made eye contact with him, like he was really going for it. Do you like that, Charlie? Uh, not really. No, no. I didn't. And people have told me, and maybe this was, I don't know.
[01:05:08] I didn't mess it up too much because I guess people weren't that mad, but people thought I was super stern at pregame and I didn't smile at anyone. I thought I was given nice little, like, Hey, you know, just a little smile. And we saw this 48 preseason of some people love Stephanie. Some people really didn't care for Stephanie. We're feeling like what she was putting down. So it's, it's a fine line. And some people are real rules followers and some people aren't following.
[01:05:36] I think I'm more of a rules guy. And I was also, I think they, they, they said something to us out there is like, nobody's ever won the game in pregame, but dozens of people have lost. And I was like, okay, I'm, I'm shutting up. I'm, you know, I'll give a small glance if people try to catch my eye, but, um, my head down and, and I'm not returning the vigorous nod. The first boot of survivor of the Amazon.
[01:06:02] One of the big reasons why he went home first was that he was getting up and down to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. And Roger RIP said he, that Ryan was stomping on the stairs all the time, going up and down to go to the bathroom. I mean, the guy who had gotten, was like getting sick from the food at Ponderosa needed to go to the bathroom too much. It wasn't even his fault. Yeah.
[01:06:28] I mean, he was not necessarily the most conscientious person, uh, that ever graced survivor. So he was getting sick, but he was also stomping, stomping, not really like being a courteous. Yeah. Okay. So Charlie, what's, what's the right way that you would suggest for other people to handle themselves to win you over? What do they need to be like? Like, what do you want to see from somebody else in the Ponderosa pregame and Ponderosa?
[01:06:56] I don't want to, I don't want to really see anything. I'm a, I'm a big believer. And you just, you just get out there and you play the game when the cameras are rolling. You just want to, don't even look at you. Yeah. I mean, you can look at me. I, you know, I'm not gonna, you know, fault you for anything. I'm probably, probably be warned. Um, but, uh, I, I, I don't know. I don't think I'm, I want to work. I pass you in the hallway where you want, like, like, just like, uh, you bet you better say nothing. I don't want to, no, no, of course.
[01:07:26] I love a good friendly. Hello around the office. Um, yeah, I don't, I don't mind that at all. And if it weren't the pregame of survivor and I was just meeting a bunch of strangers, I would love everyone being all friendly and everything like that. But I just think if you're, if your goal is to like build, you know, your end game alliance at pregame and you're going to rest your laurels on that thing, it's bad TV because you want to build the bond out there on the Island.
[01:07:55] And I think it's not going to work. So, and do you feel like that if somebody is trying to build a bond with me at Ponderosa, like how real is this? How real is it? Cause you know, they can look at everybody. They can nod at everybody. It's, it's impersonal. Um, I'm not going to say I appreciate friendliness. You know, there were everyone, everyone's super friendly at Ponderosa. I think I talked about that in my pregame press is like, it's like the most polite group of people I've ever had.
[01:08:25] They're like, Oh, go ahead in front of me in the food line. Oh, do you need a fork? You know, they're not, you're not talking, but you know, you're, you're gesturing and everyone's saying their pleases and thank yous to all the lovely Ponderosa staff. So it's not as if I don't appreciate all of that, but I think it's when you deviate, when you go above, when you really try to make contact with people non-verbally or verbally in some cases, that's when you, you get into the dirty water. Okay. It's too much. Walk it back. Yeah. It's too much. Yeah. Yeah. Tone it down.
[01:08:55] Tone it down.
[01:09:19] Tone it down. I think I told people my profession was a paralegal, like, Oh wow. What a, what a big change from law student to paralegal. So I was never going to make any sort of reveal.
[01:09:47] I was never planning on that because I just didn't, I didn't think it really meant anything. And I would imagine that Kyle's not thinking of that as an ace in the hole. Although who knows, you never know, you never know, but yeah, we'll have to, we'll have to talk. The secret lawyers will have to talk and see if he really went all the way or if, or if leaking it before a final tribal, if that, uh, if that makes him ineligible. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:10:14] I feel like that you probably want to tell people after, right? Cause I feel like the reason you hid that you were a lawyer, um, like, I feel like it's probably, there's still like some of the, Oh, he doesn't need the money. He's like a, I think that is still like, you want to like, uh, get secure the bag first. I think still. I think so. I think it's, it's too much of a risk, but I do, I do think it's, it's gotten out of hand.
[01:10:42] The, the lawyers going on survivor and hiding their profession. It's, it's gone too far or maybe it speaks more to society and what they think of lawyers, but there's tons of kinds of lawyers. Not all of them are super wealthy and successful and rich. None. Some of them, like I was saying, don't even touch the courtroom. They never have experience pitching to a jury.
[01:11:06] It's like, is a lawyer that helps you file your corporate documents, a threat to win survivor? No, they just know the rules of what you need to do to, to, you know, start a business. So I think it's gotten out of hand. And maybe I proxy the rules of survivor. Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. No way. No way, Rob. You're not, you're not, you're not doing this to the lawyers now. This is a problem on both sides. The lawyers could be open if people weren't so threatened by them.
[01:11:36] And that's the world I want to live in. Yeah. I'm only threatened by lawyers who want to sue me. See, that's only a certain kind of lawyer. Survivor lawyers are fine. Like, you know. Yeah. There's only, there's only a certain kind of lawyer that sues you. Some lawyers might defend you and you would love that one. Yes, I would love that. I would love that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Josh Small said, we saw early on, Joe said he would throw his game away for Eva.
[01:12:04] Do you think there's any chance he throws himself into fire to protect her? What do you think about that? Could that be an outcome for this season? Now, okay. So this would have to be is. Yeah. Where. So not Joe or Eva. So who wins immunity? You have to protect her. That it would have to be maybe Kyle or Camilla wins. Especially if it's like a Samotion.
[01:12:32] Like, you know, we've seen like Romeo win some motion and Heidi won some motion. So. Yeah. That Camilla could very, very well. The video game master. Like she could easily win some motion. Yeah. Does she then say, hey, I'm taking Kyle to the final three? Well, then Joe doesn't have to throw. Could he, could he not go all in? Yeah. Would he lose? You're saying would he lose?
[01:12:58] In that scenario, he would have to throw fire and literally throw his game for Eva. I don't see it. I don't think Eva would let him do that. I think Eva is too much of a competitor. I think if they discussed it, she would say, go all in. She would, she would want to. That would be high drama though. If that Kyle or Camilla wins final four immunity, takes the other one. Joe versus Eva. We've been talking about Kyle and Camilla. It would be intense. Joe versus Eva.
[01:13:29] I mean, but could you really see Joe going all in to build the fire against Eva? Well, we did have that moment in, in this past episode where Eva got out of the challenge and then it was an immediate, it was, I, and I'm sure this wasn't the case. I can't imagine Joe doing this, but it was an immediate, like Joe almost dropped out in solidarity. Yeah, I know. But it didn't make any sense why he would do that. There's no way. Yeah. There's no way. Right. Yeah.
[01:13:57] Charlie, could you see a scenario where, and this would be like such like survivor poetry where we have the thing that's sort of like bookends the season with Kyle and Kevin where Joe versus Eva in making the fire. Could Joe help Eva make her fire? Oh my goodness. In while competing against her. Am I following right? Yeah.
[01:14:25] It'd be him versus her. And like, and then he moves over stations and basically works. Together with Eva to build her fire. I can't see Joe knocking Eva out of the game and fire making. I agree. I agree with that. I agree with that. Yeah. So he could either like go through the motions of like, Oh man, how do you make a fire? Yeah. He saw the guy make a giant bonfire like the nothing earlier in the season.
[01:14:53] Is he going to like, just like act like, Oh, I guess I don't know how to do it. Or like, does he move over and help her? No, I think there's no way. And I honestly think that would come from Eva more than Joe. Like she's so competitive. She's all about being like an athlete and competing and showing how strong she is. I think she would be insulted if Joe tried to do that. Yeah.
[01:15:20] I think, I think Joe just like, is like futzing around with his stuff and his station. I just, I don't think he would, I don't think he would do it. I think, I think there's no way. I also just don't, I think that would be the most surprising fire combination. It would be the most dramatic, but in terms of who could win immunity and in terms of who they would put in to fire.
[01:15:46] I think it's the least likely outcome that we, that we could have. Yeah. Yeah. It's just that there's not a ton of different outcomes. I kind of feel like that if, if Kyle or Camilla wins, they probably take the other one. And if Joe or Eva wins that they take the other one. And so it's really like the only two binary. Yeah.
[01:16:08] It's hard to imagine a scenario where that you, you would have like Joe versus Camilla in fire making or Eva versus Kyle in fire making. Unless Camilla, unless they think there's one, they have to be. And they're like, okay, we need to put Joe or Eva into fire or I need it for my resume. I'm going to go in. I guess I could see Camilla winning the final four fire final four challenge and saying like, Hey, I've got to beat Kyle. I, you know, I need to differentiate myself from Kyle.
[01:16:38] And so I'm taking Eva or I'm taking Joe. I don't know who she would take to the final four. I guess she would, she would take Eva. Like, again, I don't know if she necessarily is going to feel like Joe is going to be much easier to beat than Kyle. Yeah. And I also just, I have a feeling that Joe is very good at making fire. Yes. We saw that giant bonfire. Just made the giant bonfire. Make the tribe happy. Yeah.
[01:17:08] Just, yeah. Just for fun. Yeah. He is a firefighter. We saw Mike Turner beat Jonathan Young in fire, even though Jonathan in his own right, you know, very outdoorsy, good at making fire. So I think, I think everyone's going to be very scared of going against Joe. And I think because of that, there's very little likelihood we get anyone besides if it were going to be anyone against Joe, it would be Eva. I don't think anyone's going in being like, we got to take out Joe and fire.
[01:17:37] And that'll be my resume because I think they just think they'll lose. Reality TV junkie wants to know, how did doing the podcast with Jeff inform your opinion about the show? What did you learn about Survivor doing on fire with Jeff? Tons of the little, little details that go into the show.
[01:18:02] And I always tell people this is one of the coolest things and most surprising things because you just have no context for it unless you're in the TV or movie business. It's just like the size of the production is incredible. Incredible. The amount of cameras, the amount of crew and everyone's moving around silently, wordlessly and going to exactly the right places and capturing exactly the right moments.
[01:18:30] So what I learned the most was just like how much planning and how professional these people are who are filming Survivor is like it's really cool. Like I loved hearing all those stories about about all the folks like I always love when they the social media team will like post about the different camera people and the dream teamers, whatever it may be. It's like it is amazing what they do out there. And they're so, so much a well-oiled machine. It's awesome.
[01:19:00] Yeah, it's a whole operation that they have. You know, there is a lot to be learned on the On Fire podcast. I really, I like when Jeff like talks about like what he's like thinking in certain moments and takes us like into it. I think it was one like during your, I think I'm pretty sure it was during your season because I think it was in the fall when you were, not your season of Survivor, your season of hosting.
[01:19:30] Of On Fire. Yeah, sure. Jeff talked about like what was going through his head when Danny was doing De Niro face. Oh, yeah. And now he's like, yeah, I don't like this. This isn't good. Like, don't do this bit. Yeah, those sort of, those sort of tidbits are always really funny because you don't really know what Jeff is thinking a lot of the time as a player, especially at Tribal Council and especially in those moments where he is being pretty stoic and serious.
[01:19:58] So it was, it's, yeah, it was always cool to get his behind the scenes thoughts about, you know, what happened. I can, I would love to listen to him like just recap every Survivor season, like, and just give his unfiltered thoughts about like all these big moments and what he was thinking and, and all that. That would be really cool. Yeah. I don't know if we're ever going to get that, but it would be. Hey, maybe someday. Maybe. That'd be cool. Okay. All right.
[01:20:28] You ready for the Taylor Swift questions? Oh, God. Probably not. People, I, people are always asking me to like name someone, like name the Taylor Swift song that is this person. And I always, I think that's really hard to do. Okay. But, but Hey, let me try. Let me try. All right. Yeah. How about, okay. Did I predict it? I'm not going to go right to the thing that you said. Did I predict it? It was hard to do. I knew it.
[01:20:57] I knew it. What is this season as a Taylor era? Oh, okay. Let's see. Which, which, which Taylor Swift album is honor and integrity? Um, I don't know if those are particular themes that, that Taylor Swift writes on. Not that she would, you know, disavow those themes. I want to be clear. I think she has great amounts of honor and much integrity.
[01:21:26] Um, but I can't think of a song that's, um, uh, I guess I would say maybe reputation. It's a lot about, you know, put, putting your money where your mouth is, you know, laying your cards out on the table. You know, if people are doing sneaky things, then you just got to cut them out. So, so get all that, get all the snakes out of there. Lots of snake imagery. Um, so yeah, I'll go with reputation. I don't know if people are expecting that.
[01:21:56] Swifties, let me know what you think. And definitely don't come for me. What's the amount of like crossover in the survivor Taylor Swift community? Like, is there like a place where, you know, you have like some kind of like discord or like, are you mobilized the survivor Taylor Swift fans? No, we're, we're a sleeper cell. Yeah. So, you know, at the drop of the code word, we will activate. Okay. Um, yeah. So be careful.
[01:22:24] Um, no, I, there is a big overlap, but I think it's probably just that there's a lot of survivor fans and there's a lot of Taylor Swift fans. So there's going to be a pretty big intersection. Um, and I, you know, it's been really fun. It's been one of my favorite things. Um, like people give me friendship bracelets that are survivor themed. Like though, I love, love getting those from fans. Like that is really nice. I sometimes, you know, my wife will find them. Uh, and like, what is this?
[01:22:54] I was like, Oh, like I went to an event and some fans made like a, uh, French bracelet for me. Yeah. And like, well, what does it say? It says, uh, uh, it's, it's the, the letters of how did your life change for the better when you join the mafia with Matt and I? They're very creative.
[01:23:19] Or sometimes it's like, very like, uh, inside jokes, like, uh, from the show. Uh, it's very nice. Some that are like, uh, I'm sure I a hundred percent. And maybe someone on Twitter can confirm this. Does anyone have already a got fun betrayal? Got fun betrayal would be, I think. Gotta be out there. That's gotta be out there. That's going to be a huge one. That's going to be a big one. Yeah.
[01:23:45] And whatever the spelling is of what Shaheen says of like, uh, shuka waka. Oh, yeah. I don't know. We're definitely seeing some fried chicken and waffles. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to see some, some popular ones this season. I think those are going to be lit next week. Yeah. All the finale. Do you think there's, do you think there's going to be any Rob shady updates? Friendship bracelet? Oh, what would they be?
[01:24:15] I mean, what would they spell out? I mean, it's hard to put my, uh, face on people's body. Have you gotten the, uh, Rob's shady update treatment yet? Well, Rob, listen, I was liaising with Rob shady updates in advance of our podcast today. And, and I, I wanted to see if there was a message that, that Rob shady updates had for you. So do you mind if I, if I read the message because I'm a little concerned.
[01:24:45] Um, it's both. Rob recently rebranded to Rob's evil shady updates. Is that something? It's evil. Evil Rob shady updates. So I'm, I'm just worried about where this is going to escalate. As am I, as am I. Because as we know, your, your drop your buffs interview really stoked the flames. And now we have this evil, evil Rob shady updates. So I'm worried.
[01:25:12] So we went from just putting your face on other survivor players bodies. Now we're getting sort of Frankenstein mix and match across all kinds of eras. Faces on everything. Yeah. And where could it go from here? I I'm worried. So I, I'm just wondering, is there anything we can do to mend the fence? And for example, evil Rob shady updates. They, they said to me via DM, please forgive me, Robert, but also you suck Robert.
[01:25:41] So I, I just feel like there's, there's, there's a, a, a want for this to be resolved, but there's, there's some feelings there. What I've been encouraged by is that it seems like that the alumni have really gravitated towards this. They seem to like that. That's true. That this is true. And they seem to enjoy it. So, you know, I'm happy for that. I love that for them.
[01:26:08] I think also the fans are like, well, at least this is an AI. It seems like that there's a human who's doing this. It's organic. And they seem to like that. I have mixed feelings on it. Okay. So you're not, you're not ready to extend an olive branch yet. You're not there. I know Charlie as my legal counsel, what should I do?
[01:26:32] Well, I don't know because I was hoping, I was hoping this would be some bridge building here, but I think you just got to wait and see. I would say the ball is in Rob shady updates court at this point. It seems you've, you've rejected. If I follow, then it's like, that's my tacit approval of this. Okay. And I don't know what they're doing. They're too, they're too unpredictable. The, what, whatever they're doing.
[01:26:59] Like my business is interacting with all of the different reality. I want to have good relationships with everybody. But now if I, if somebody doesn't like what they're doing, takes their, my, my face and puts them on their body. Like, uh, they don't like that. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I feel like, is that, is, does that give somebody the ick where it seems like I'm encouraging that person of like, okay. So Rob is putting his face on my body.
[01:27:28] Like, it just seems like, I don't know. I feel like people, somebody's going to be not loving that. Okay. Okay. I, I respect it. I respect, I respect your position. And I don't know exactly what evil Rob shady updates his position is. I don't know what their end game is. No, no. Well, that's the scary part of it. Who knows? Who knows what the agenda is? It's the deep state. Yeah.
[01:27:56] Um, I don't know what's, I don't know what's going on, but, uh, I don't know. I just want to live in peace and harmony. Yeah. And I think we have a fragile like, I just acknowledge. Right. How you do it? Can I like a post like with that suffice? Maybe that would be a good middle ground. Could we, could we get there as a, as a middle ground, maybe a, I'll like, yeah, do that. Yeah.
[01:28:23] But, you know, you could put out a formal statement, maybe, you know, that, you know, your, your likes and interactions. It's not, it's not approval. Cannot be, not be held against you and is not formal approval. Yeah. There's, there's some, some fine prints. Maybe you can help me work out. Okay. Yeah. We'll, we'll, we'll get a draft going. Okay. Um, if, which Taylor Swift song would Charlie associate with each of the final five? Charlie said he's not going to do that. I knew it. I always do that one. It's so hard. Okay. Yeah. Um, yeah.
[01:28:53] How about this, Charlie, if Charlie was on this jury, we've never seen Charlie as a juror. Uh, how would you vote now? We'd have to come up with different scenarios, but yeah. How do you, do you feel like you would be a Joe voter if you were on the jury? Gosh, I have no idea. I think, I think with these honor and integrity folks, it's all comes down to how they pitch it in the end. Um, and I'm, I don't know.
[01:29:20] I probably fall into the camp that I, I want to, I want to, I want to hear that you were really intentional with how you built all your alliances. And I also want to hear you own it as a strategy and not just a moral compass and not just like, I believed it was the right thing. So I did it. I want to, I want to hear that. Like, no, I, I wanted to get to the final three. I thought this was the best way to do it. And it made me feel good because I, I stuck with the people the whole way.
[01:29:50] I don't, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I just, I just think it, it, it's very easy for a juror to be put off by a holier than thou attitude. And I don't, I don't know if Joe's going to take that approach. I think he's going to be, hopefully he can be light on his feet if people are pushing back on him. So yeah, that's, if I was a juror, I think that's what, what I'd be looking out for.
[01:30:15] Once upon a time I was a juror and I had to decide between two people in Jenna and Matt. And I felt like that the consensus among the jurors were like, how is this the final two? How are the, how's it these two? I think that is a surprisingly common consensus. I would say on tons of seasons, the juror is a little bit, a little bit apathetic to who ends up there.
[01:30:43] A little bit like looking around, like, uh, like, Hey, like, Hey, Alex, Dina, like Heidi, like how, how are we over here? And they're there. Yeah. What the heck? It all went wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And I felt like that of the two of them, I felt like that Matthew was a little, was more of like not owning like that, you know, what he had done to have gotten there and really tried to play a little bit more of like, Oh, I was very honest.
[01:31:12] And, uh, you know, I was very, you know, just, I played a very clean game where, uh, Jenna, like, I feel like it was not necessarily like really like owning it, but it just felt like that. Okay. That she, she had won four challenges and it felt like a little bit more like that she was like coming into herself as a person and you could kind of like see the trajectory, the trajectory. Yes, exactly.
[01:31:38] And yeah, she was just like, uh, warmer to the jury than Matthew was, who was just very like stilted in his speech, um, and didn't really connect with the audience at all. So, um, but I feel like I was swayed at the final tribal council. Yeah, I think, I think it's huge. I think it's, it's super important. I think people, people underestimate, like even, even folks who a lot of people are like,
[01:32:05] Oh, well, you know, they went out and, you know, six fifth, whatever they would have won if they got to the end. It's like, it's a huge obstacle that you can really mess up in front of the jury, even if you've got the, the, you know, whatever it is on paper at the time you were voted out. It's definitely not a given that you're, you know, you would have won if you'd gotten there. A lot of people, a lot of people think that, and I, I do not think that is true.
[01:32:31] We voted on so many things for season 50 and, uh, we didn't vote on anything around the final tribal council. Uh, would you have liked to have seen them vote on? Do you, should they go back to the old format final tribal council instead of the, uh, you know, three segments and the group, uh, like all being able to speak sort of like more of the, uh, open forum final tribal council. Yeah.
[01:33:00] Well, interestingly enough at our, at our final tribal council, everyone had a question. Yeah. Every single juror. It's gone back a little bit. It's like a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And I, I did like that. Which I think is a good middle ground. You, I think it's good that the jurors sort of put a lot of thought into exactly what I want to ask the, the contestants. I also think there, there's just been so many amazing survivor moments that happen at final tribal council.
[01:33:29] So I think it's good for the show to have that. I mean, you have like a Kelly speech. I, I, that's one of my favorites. I love the Reed Kelly speech. I think it's, it, people talk about it obviously, but I think it's still underrated. It's so, so well delivered. It had so much buildup from the game where you had the, the brat interaction with Reed and Missy and Baylor.
[01:33:56] And then you get to that moment where Reed's finally got the jury power and he's just like full on Broadway acting this amazing monologue. So good. Can I tell you what's interesting about that is that in the real time, um, and I remind me of your survivor fandom, Charlie, were you, uh, like all the way through? I'm a pandemic guy. I'm a pandemic guy. So I can tell you in the real time, it was not extremely well received when in the real time of when it happened.
[01:34:25] I think that people are like, okay, this is sour grapes. Uh, people did not instantly feel like it was iconic and, uh, and amazing. They kind of felt like that there's a little bit piling on Missy. It's so interesting though, in recent years that people have really flocked to it. They've come around on that. Yeah. Tegleth had done a whole like reel where she did it like verbatim.
[01:34:52] And so it is amazingly iconic. I just think it's really interesting that like the Sue Hawk speech, the night it happens instantly iconic. And as Jeff says, sometimes some survivor moments are, uh, icon or take a long time to become iconic and others are instantly iconic. And the read speech I think is one that with age people really flock to. Yeah, for sure.
[01:35:22] Maybe, maybe the difference is the read speech was so targeted at one person. Yeah. And then the Sue Hawk speech, I mean, you had the rat and you had the snake, but it was more, it was more, it was, it was definitely more on Kelly, but I, I feel like maybe people like that. But she at least acknowledged that there was, and the thing that I never really connected between the two. And I, I misheard you when you, when you first said it and you said, read Kelly.
[01:35:50] And I, I, I, I thought you said the Kelly speech and I thought you were talking about Sue Hawk. So it's interesting that Kelly connects both of them. Kelly's Kelly's involved in both the common thread. Yeah. Yeah. Who knows what the next Kelly will bring? Yes. I mean, Kelly Goldsmith goes pretty hard in survivor Africa. Yep. Yep. Yep. Maybe that is, maybe that is a thing. Well, another, another thing for the analytics. What do we, what do we need people to research?
[01:36:17] Uh, whether winning reward helps you win immunity and do all Kelly's or Kelly adjacent. I mean, she was very, uh, you know, a D voter did not like, uh, really lay anybody at the final travel council waves there. Yeah. We'll see what the percentages are. Maybe we're like an 80% worth. I don't think it's historically gone hard at the final travel council. Yeah. I feel like she had maybe a little bit of spice maybe in Cambodia. Yeah. Maybe I don't know. Cambodia final travel council.
[01:36:46] I feel like that was a spicy, spicy jury in general. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Then let's see what else. Okay. Um, all right. This might be a little in the weeds. Ben says, what is the chance this season's payoff is a four, four tie in the final three Joe versus Kyle. And then Eva has to cast the tie breaking vote for Joe to win a la Laurel and Wendell. Whoa, that would be crazy. Oh my gosh.
[01:37:15] Um, who would, I guess, I guess it's not so out of the question that could happen. Right. Kyle's making a great case and he's getting, I mean, could Joe get, I guess that, uh, Joe's four votes. I think maybe he gets Mitch. Is it possible? Maybe Mitch, maybe, maybe Cedric. I think Cedric would be a Kyle vote. Uh, could Shaheen be like, okay, Joe was my guy.
[01:37:45] Maybe Suede. Maybe Suede. Yeah. He was talking about how close they were. Um, Mitch, Shaheen. It's not, probably not Camilla. Not, I don't think it's star. Maybe, maybe Chrissy. Maybe Chrissy. Okay. I don't know. I don't know. I just, I don't. Let's say it happens, but then, yeah. So yeah, Kyle's got to get the five. He can't let it go to Eva tiebreak. No, no, definitely not. He's, he's got to get there.
[01:38:14] Um, I think the. 3-3-2. 3-3-2. 3-3-2 feels more likely than a 4-4, but that's, that's really tricky because then you sort of have five votes in the Eva Joe camp. Actually, what would, what would they do with a 3-3-2? I think. They do a re-vote and say you can only vote for, is that how it would work? I don't know. I don't think we've, we've never had a 3-3-2.
[01:38:42] Would Eva then, okay, is eliminated and then she would cast the winning vote for Joe or would the two Eva votes. I feel like they go to a re-vote first. The two, they would have the two Eva votes go back up and you can only vote now for, uh, for. I think so. But doesn't Eva become the, then is eliminated from the game and become the ninth juror at that point? Wait, that's, that's really, yeah, that's really tricky because especially if it was
[01:39:10] three for Joe, two for Eva or vice versa, like you could see a world where if you. Too bad you can't just ask this on the On Fire podcast next week. Gosh. I don't even know if they'd say, I don't, this is a really tough one. I, yeah, they used to not say what would happen if it was a tie at the final travel council. Jeff's like, we have a plan. We'll see one day. Yeah. And we did. They probably, they probably have a plan for this too.
[01:39:37] I'm sure they've thought of every possible eventuality, but I don't think this would be really, really tricky because it, it's not cut and dry that like, who should you knock out from, should you just say you have to just revote, maybe give them another chance to sway? I don't know. That's tough. Yeah. Okay. That'd be huge. I think if that was going to happen on Wednesday night, I do feel like that the hype machine
[01:40:05] would be like something that you've never imagined could have happened, like will happen. And you'd get like on the jury, like, like, uh, like Cedric's head. Yeah. I don't think that's going to happen on, uh, this Wednesday night, but yeah, but, but a nice, a nice thought experiment. I few people talk about a three-way tie all the time, but no one talks about the two-way tie.
[01:40:35] I don't think we can have a three-way tie. I think that three-way tie, I don't think they have a solve for. I think that that's, that's probably why we have eight person jury. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point. That's the plan for the three-way ties. Just never allow it. Yeah. We had a commercial for the survivor card game last night. Have you played the survivor card game? I actually haven't played it yet. I, I would love to get my hands on a copy. I don't have like a, like a good game store near me. Oh, that's fucking good.
[01:41:03] Did you have amazon.com? Oh, what am I thinking? Yeah, I do. I should, I should order a game. Uh, my, my friends are in for a game night every now and again, so maybe we'll, uh, we'll break it out. I don't know which survivor players I would want to be as, as my card. I wonder if they'll, will they do expansion packs? I don't know. I don't know if the expansion packs is easy money on the table for CBS. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm thinking like you could make iterations of this game.
[01:41:31] Have they ever done a survivor trading or card game where like players had different abilities? So like maybe Russell has a higher chance of finding an idol or something like that. Would you like it to be like a little bit more like D and D? Well, I was just thinking that's a, that's a place where it could go after this. But you can play as D in this game. True. But not D and D. D and Jam Jam, I believe is the pair. You only get, you only get the one. Yeah. Um, so no, I really do want to play it.
[01:42:01] Um, cause I know it was designed by the, by Jeff and the exploding kittens designer, which I love exploding kittens. And I actually started playing exploding kittens around the same time that I started watching survivor. So I thought it was so funny when Jeff was like, here's this game designed by me. Yeah. My kids like it. I got, I got it because I had heard that, you know, it was, Jeff was taking so much influence from it for survivor. Yeah. And you know, my kids do really enjoy it. How about, it seems compelling.
[01:42:31] I see on Tik TOK. It seems really good. Did you vote for if there should be idols on survivor 50? I did. I, I voted for idols. Yeah. I voted for idols. I mean, do you know anybody who's not voting for idols? Um, no one that I talked to, but I, there's, there's definitely going to be people. I think me and I think more that, I guess if I have any sort of opinion here, I think
[01:42:58] more people will vote for no idols than we think. You think so. Yeah. I think that may at max maybe 10%. I think, yeah, we're sitting at 10 to 20%, but I think, I think there's definitely people who either think that idols make it too messy, too hard to follow, or they do want that world where people are just so lost in the sauce and be like, are there idols? Are there no idols?
[01:43:24] Well, maybe there's a question of how many idols should be in a game. I think that that's fair to ask. And, you know, should there be new idols after the merge or just, or just tribal idols? I think, I think there was probably a way to ask that question that like gives it like is a little bit more like trying to get a pulse on what people actually want, but I'm pretty sure people, everybody wants idols in the game of survivor. It's like, you know, should we get rid of the three point shot? Like why?
[01:43:55] Well, there are a lot of people who do talk about that, right? Well, maybe there's too many, uh, in, in basketball and I'm not, I don't know. I don't have enough in the, in the full fandom either, but I think, I think what, what interests me the most about it push push, like it's kind of an essential part of the show. That's true. That's true. I mean, and Jeff, Jeff says all the time, he's like, think of your favorite moments.
[01:44:21] It's they're always the idol plays, the poverty double idol play, Russell finding and saving himself with idols. So I, I think so many fans, I, I think fans will remember all those moments fondly and be like, yeah, get them in the game. I think there's a case more for if you want to get rid of advantages or beware advantages versus idols. But I think just, I think that, I think there definitely, we could have some unexpected results
[01:44:47] in terms of the twists and the advantages votes that I think a lot of those ones could go either way, especially the ones where there were three options. It could be like, it could be anywhere, honestly. So that, that is interesting. What happens if the fans voted for, uh, no idols, but also, uh, a lot of twists and, you know, we voted it like a, and like an, a, an advantage heavy game. Oh, wow.
[01:45:14] So no idols, a lot of twists and tons of advantages. Oh my gosh. That'd be great. They're boxing themselves in with some of this stuff. Yeah. I don't know. We'll see, we'll see what the, what the, the fans cook up, but I mean, the votes have been, they've, the votes have been very spaced out. So I think there is room for maybe some unpredictable themes in the voting, which, which is fun for me.
[01:45:41] I think it would be so wild if the, if we got a sort of mishmash of like what they voted for no idols, but they voted for dynamic for like the highest advantage power possible. That would be so fun. Yeah. Yeah. Charlie, what else is going on for you? What's going on outside of survivor? Oh my gosh. Uh, nothing really.
[01:46:05] Honestly, just, just working, you know, working, hanging out with, with my girlfriend, Judy. Shout out to Judy. Shout out to Judy. She will listen. Shout out to Judy. Uh, she'll listen a hundred percent. Um, is she a survivor fan too? She, she is. She actually, she goes on like survivor binge kicks. Yeah. Totally unpredictably. So, so go from cold Turkey, not watching any survivor. And then all of a sudden she'll be like, I'm watching Gabon. Gabon.
[01:46:34] And she's like live texting me everything. She's thinking about survivor Gabon. She, she literally just finished that last week. So I guess she's on a little bit of a kick. Um, has she seen it before? No, no, no, no. Like a first time, first time season. Um, and she gets so into it actually. Uh, so Bryson, when we're in town this week and historically Bob Crowley has come to the Bryson when event. So I, I told her, I was like, you know, Bob, he might be there. And she was like, what? Oh, she loved.
[01:47:03] Like she, yeah, she, yeah, she's like, she's a Bob stand. She, she's like, you know, just enjoying the season overall. She liked crystal, like Kenny. She liked sugar. She thought sugar got a, a tough, tough go of it out there. Yeah. Um, but, uh, no, just a bone. She really got into the season. She was like, I really wanted to meet Bob. He wasn't there. Unfortunately, but unfortunately maybe, maybe sometime. Yeah. Yeah. What else do you watch when you're not watching survivor anything? Oh, okay. Yeah.
[01:47:32] Um, let's see. I'm watching the rehearsal on HBO right now things about this and I haven't had the time to watch it yet. So you haven't seen either season. I saw season one and I was a little bit. Okay. I was like whelmed with season one. I thought the first episode was good. That's what I say to people is like, it is a weird show. It is so bizarre. And you just kind of have to accept that before, before you start watching or you're going to be like, Oh, this is weird.
[01:48:02] And I don't like it. My wife really does not care for Nathan Fielder. Okay. So she doesn't like her, her brand. No, no. She doesn't like him. She doesn't really love Larry David. I feel like that she really does not like, like sort of like cringe. Like the deadpan. Cringe. Okay. She doesn't love that. See, I love. That's why she's with me for you. Not the antithesis of cringe. Yeah. Your, your peak, uh, highbrow comedy. I think you do.
[01:48:31] You have a good sense of humor, Rob. First of all, like let's not, let's not be overly sarcastic here. You're a witty guy. Like you've, you're very quick witted. Um, thank you. Yes. A thousand percent. Um, so yeah, it's, it's a, it's a unique brand. It's like, um, there was this show that one of my roommates in college loved. It's a British comedy show called the in betweeners. Okay. And it was the same thing at first. I was like, this is weird.
[01:49:00] It's a very different style of comedy. I wasn't a huge fan, but I just, sometimes you just got to stick it out, embrace it. And that's one of my favorite TV shows right now. But fair warning, that show is incredibly, incredibly vulgar. Um, so don't, don't go into the in betweeners, uh, without being prepared. Um, but yeah, what else, what else, what else am I watching right now? Um, I watch anime, Rob. You ever, you ever watch anime? I didn't know that. Yeah. My kids watch some of it. Yeah.
[01:49:30] Yeah. I'm into it. I really liked the stories. Good storytelling. Um, it's good on a binge. Um, yeah. So I watched some anime here and there. Um, but, uh, aside from that, not, not a whole lot, not a whole lot. Um, I like to ask Brandon, like, Hey, is there anything interesting from social media we should talk about with the guests? He said, uh, Charlie only had one survivor 48 tweet, uh, this season.
[01:49:56] And he posted this picture of David that says Charlie's biceps are bigger than mine. Yes. Yes, indeed. I, I was, first of all, I'm pretty proud of my editing here. I wrote it out in cursive, which I realized I forgot how to form a lot of, a lot of letters in cursive. Did he write his original post in cursive? Yeah, he did it in cursive. He wrote, he wrote it all in cursive. So that the Charlie is, is his writing.
[01:50:26] Everything else is my writing. Yes. I don't know if he'd say about you. I think he said something like Charlie was robbed or something. Oh, so he said something nice about you and then you turned it into a roast? I don't know. Sometimes I feel bad about some of that discourse. Um, you know, not that I don't like people supporting me. I really appreciate it. And whenever people tell me that on the street, thank you so much. But you know, I, sometimes when it gets online, it can get a little crazy.
[01:50:56] So I, I viewed it as a way to. But diffuse the situation. Yes, I get that. And I, I'm, I'm a sucker for a good Snapchat edit. That's my editing platform. Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. And, and you also, when you, we saw you in person at the live show, that that was when David did the challenge that you won. And you also said that you felt like that you, you could have beaten David in the challenge. So are we building towards a Charlie versus David season?
[01:51:26] Oh my God. Based purely around grip strength. Yeah. Your rivalry with, with Charlie, who has bigger guns? Can you imagine the, the promos we brought back? How much milk do you drink, Charlie? Oh my God. See, okay. I want grocery store receipts from Joe and David. Yeah. I want to see seven gallons of milk on their weekly grocery bill.
[01:51:56] I want, and I, and I don't just want one week. I want multiple weeks because how in the heck is anyone drinking that much milk? I, I can't imagine it. Are you saying that they, you can't imagine them drinking or you think it's too expensive? You don't think that they could, uh, yeah, it's an investment. Well, I do think that there is like some utility of like, I don't think this is what they're doing, but if you like basically was, this is like, this is my food for the day.
[01:52:25] Like this is like, or half my calories for the day are going to come from this. Like, I think that there is some cost savings there in terms of like, you know, your, your, your gallon of milk is what? Five 99. You know, that is like, if you were like replacing like one meal with that, you are getting a good value for the nutrition that's in the gallon of milk. So you think you're going like, you're just doing like a breakfast and a dinner and then
[01:52:54] just throughout the day, you're just sipping, just sips and sipping on your gallon of milk. Maybe that's how they're doing it. You know, instead of going to Starbucks once a day, if I'm buying my gallon of milk that I am doing better for my money there. Okay. So, so here's then my question logistically, like what if you're away from your fridge for the day? Do you think he has like a Stanley or a cooler, like in his car with just a gallon of milk?
[01:53:23] I think he's got to chug it before they leave the house. Okay. So that's, that I think is impossible. I think if you chugged a gallon of milk, you'd be... How do you know they're not buying like two half gallons? And it's sort of like, okay, I take one with me to go and one with me... One morning, one at night. Yeah, one at the morning. More expensive to do that way. See, this is what I want to know. I need to know how you're drinking a full gallon of milk a day because that is just, it's an obscene amount of milk.
[01:53:51] I know people who do the gallon of water, like they have their whole jugs, but there's no way they're carrying around a gallon of milk throughout the day. There's no way. And I want to know how many times you're going to refill on your milk. Is it a once a week thing? And that's like part of your workout that you're carrying seven gallons of milk. That's how you get the gun. That's... You have like three gallons in each hand. Yeah. And you're like the, you know, the teenage boy who's like, mom asks him to help with the groceries and they're like, I will do this in one trip.
[01:54:21] Like, yeah, maybe, maybe. So that's my burning question is what are the logistics behind the milk? Yeah. Yeah. Well, Charlie, this was such a delight to talk with you. The time flew by. Thank you for being so generous with your time after work today, talking through this all. I think this was a really great conversation about everything that's happening now and your
[01:54:48] own experiences with, you know, heading into this part of the game. So thank you so much. I'm sure that the listeners were also thrilled to get your expertise talking about all this. Well, thanks so much for having me. I really, really appreciate it. Always honored to come on. And I had a ton of fun. This is awesome. So thank you, Charlie. What do you want people to check out? Oh, gosh. Are you still making cameos? I'm still on cameo. Yeah, you can you can hit me up on cameo.
[01:55:17] Do you do a lot of Mother's Day cameos? I did do a few Mother's Day cameos. I really liked doing those ones, actually. That was that was a lot of fun. So, yeah, you can you can hit me up on cameo. I feel like that during Survivor 46, there was a lot of talk about the Survivor chart. Who's on top? There was the leaderboard. The leaderboard. But now I don't know. Like, I feel like they stopped the leaderboard. Like, I know there's an overall leaderboard. I mean, I'm like, I'm like, 4000 on it.
[01:55:46] So it's not very motivating for me because I'm never I'm never going to climb. What am I going to climb to? Three thousand five hundred. Yeah. So about the Survivor specific one there. I don't think that did they discontinue it anymore. I don't know. I guess they did. But honestly, I think it was a good feature. It was a good feature. You know, you had like cute. The cameo heavyweight Q and Carolyn were like and yeah, and coach and and like Liz was getting in on it. You know, there was it was good buzz around the cameo.
[01:56:16] Yeah, a lot of good buzz back or maybe they figure they can only they can only hammer that in like once a year. And otherwise people will be like, oh, we're still maybe exciting. I recently said this about your season, Charlie, that I thought that 46 was the best season that it was. It was the most fun season for me to do the podcast of that. You know, not to say that's awesome. Best season, worst season, but there is so much on and off the page.
[01:56:45] Yes. Yes. To talk about during 46. Yeah, I'm I love hearing people say that it's just it's great that people eventually resonated with it. I remember it was a big, big, you know, it was a slump was big, but there was a little slump in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think will age better when you can watch those in quick succession. I'm a bit I'm a I'm a Bonu defender to my core. Yeah. Still think that they should have.
[01:57:15] I remember, you know, still got gone to tribal council after random got met. That hurt. That hurt. That hurt. The because that was a lot of momentum. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. But no, I was and I was confident. I was really I was like, it's going to get pretty crazy. I think people will turn around. And I was I was really happy that. And I don't know if this is something if this is a product of our world where maybe we're in the immediate moment.
[01:57:42] We're a little bit more like like everybody's just complaining about the same thing while it's happening. A little bit of a death spiral, a little bit of a death spiral. But I do think that 90 minute episodes do exacerbate like when there is like a down week of the show, it feel you feel it more than maybe you did when there would be 60 minute episodes of the show and nothing happens. That's a good point. Yeah.
[01:58:10] I didn't think about that because, I mean, we had at least 45, 46, 47, all 90 minutes. And I seemed like the fans like loved them all. Except that one period of time in 46 where there was like two or three weeks where and it was like at that point, it was like as bad as it had ever been. And it rallied. It got it got better. And the last couple of weeks, we were also in that period of like, you know, nothing's happening. Do something.
[01:58:39] And we were also like the 90 minute episodes. I think like really when it's slow, people, I think, really feel that. Yeah, I could totally see that. I think for me, like I'm still such a new live Survivor watcher. I feel like I have so much stamina. Yeah. Yeah. That's your MO. I could see that. Yeah. Endurance. Endurance. Yeah.
[01:59:05] On that same note, be on the lookout for 90 minute Big Brother Wednesdays coming this summer to CBS. I did not see that. Wow. Wow. That is exciting. Yes. That is exciting. The extended Power of Veto challenge each week, Wednesday nights on CBS. Is that, have they revealed like what they're doing? Is it just going to be more just of all the content? In the past, like it's that they really, I think it's, I think that the challenge is going to be longer.
[01:59:34] And then there'll probably be like a few more segments that they'll get the show during the week because there is like a big break between the Sunday night episode and the Wednesday episode. So they can get catch up a little bit more on what's going on during the week. But I do think that we're going to spend a lot of time on these Veto challenges. Okay. Okay. Well, I'll watch out for it. I haven't seen a lot of Big Brother episodes, but it always, it always makes its way. Into my, my social media feed. It's impossible to stop. Yeah. All right.
[02:00:03] Well, Charlie, thank you so much for everybody else. We're going to be live on Friday afternoon. I am going to be taking questions from the patrons live 3 PM Eastern. So be on the lookout for that robinswebs.com slash patron on Monday. I'll be back with club condo with Chappelle talking about all of the survivor shenanigans over the last couple of days. And then Bryce Isaiah will join me a fresh off of coming to see Charlie in Boston.
[02:00:32] And right before the big, uh, Bryson when finale party will join me for the old school interview on Monday. So check that out. I had a great old school interview with poverty this past week. If anybody missed that, uh, very evergreen. You can still check that out. Thank you so much for joining us. I love to read your comments after the show. Take care of a good one. Bye.