Carolyn Wiger: Bird Set Free | Pod Friends

[00:00:00] Carolyn, why should people listen to this episode of Pod Friends featuring you? Carolyn Wiger, Ph.D.: Here's the deal. I, as Jeff says, we dig deep. This whole Pod Friends, I just want to say too, is such a great idea. But why should you listen to this one specifically? Because we hit a bunch of topics. We talk about a lot of things. I don't want to spoil it, but I don't hold back. I don't have a filter.

[00:00:28] Carolyn Wiger, Ph.D.: And that can be interesting sometimes.

[00:01:24] Welcome to Pod Friends. My name is Matt Scott. I'm your host and so thrilled to be here with you for another meaningful conversation, a really special conversation to my heart. The phenomenal, incredible, genuine, kind-hearted, real Carolyn Wiger of, of course, Survivor 44 fame. We know her from the Tika 3.

[00:01:47] We know her from opening up the season. We know her from just being her emotional, real, authentic self, being her brilliant self. And maybe people didn't always listen to her, but I think what's so beautiful is that we, as the viewers, got to see so much of her and her journey and appreciate so much of her.

[00:02:05] And I, for one, relate to so much of her as an emotional person. I love that I got to talk with Carolyn, but I do want to make sure up top to give a couple of trigger warnings because in this episode, we do talk about domestic violence. Of course, Carolyn also has her experiences with sobriety. And so we talk, I think, a little bit about addiction in this episode.

[00:02:30] And so just real raw topics, a very uplifting and powerful conversation. But I just wanted to give that heads up for folks in case this isn't the time to check this out. But so much I could say, and I have so much love for Carolyn and all the ways that she's just like, even in this conversation, been so kind and supportive and warm to me. So I can't wait to go back through this with all of you and listen alongside all of you.

[00:02:57] But one thing I want to mention is that with Carolyn, we've recorded a special 15 minutes with friends over on Patreon, patreon.com slash RHAP over on the free tier. It's amazing because we have this like 15-ish segment. I'm asking Carolyn questions that go beyond this interview, a little bit more of a rapid fire. And just a big shout out to Derek behind the scenes at RHAP for helping get that published and make that happen.

[00:03:24] But in addition to checking out the Patreon, patreon.com slash RHAP, you could leave a voicemail. And so I love to hear from you, speakpipe.com slash podfriends. And please like tell a friend, tag RHAP on social media, tag me on social media, at Matt Scott GW on all platforms. And again, just thank you so much, Carolyn, for being part of this. But without further ado, here is my introduction to Carolyn.

[00:03:55] Making her way to the podcast, hailing from the North Star State of Minnesota. She's a fan favorite from Survivor 44, the Traitor Season 3, and the Let's Get Tribal podcast or the Let's Get Treacherous podcast. She's also a single mother, a drug counselor, and a life coach. Please welcome, joining us from her freedom era, the passionate, a little bit loud, and totally open, always faithful. Please listen to her.

[00:04:25] She's brilliant. She's strategic. She's perceptive. She's empathetic. She's smart. She's genuine. She's herself. She's a great fan. Please welcome, the iconic Carolyn Wieger. What's amazing is like you just, look, I'm glad that we're here. I'm glad that we're making this happen. And it's just exciting. It's exciting to be able to like talk with you, to have you on PodFriends.

[00:04:54] I've had, I had Franny on about a year ago, which was awesome and a lot of fun. And so I told her that you were going to be up. She was really excited about this too. So this is cool. But look, Carolyn, I don't, I don't even know where to start. Girl. I know. And like you caught me on the week. Like I was like, you know what? It's going to be a crazy week. So I might as well keep going. But yeah, we got the trailer for the Traitors just dropped in like.

[00:05:22] Like, oh, because that's always scary to like, you know, what's it going to in the anticipation? Yeah. So they're like dropping little bits. And so it's like, oh, how are they going to edit me? And I'm a firm believer of like, I will never say, oh, that was the edit. That wasn't me. No, that was me. Like, yeah. Like I get how they can edit things to make it or make it seem a certain way. But no, that was me. I will never deny anything in an edit.

[00:05:50] But like, well, I mean, what's what's cool. I was actually just listening back, like getting ready for this conversation, listening back to different interviews you did. And there was one, I think, with Rob Sesternino, where you're talking about how you were like thinking that you'd be like get the purple let it on Survivor. And I'm like, Carolyn, how? Not even possible. Not even like the I would like joke to the producers. Yeah. I would just be like, don't like I don't want it.

[00:06:20] And they're like, trust me, you're not going to. But I also don't. I've never been like and this is still something I struggle with is I've never been a strong speaker. And I have a hard time articulating myself sometimes. That's why, like with this last season watching Teenie, I'm like, oh, my gosh, they articulate so well and are so well spoken. And I'm like, I like I'm not kidding you.

[00:06:49] Before I did traders, I really was like, maybe I should do some like speech classes debate courses. I'm serious because I want to be at the round table and I want to know how to talk. Oh, my gosh. No. OK, well, we'll see how that all we'll just we'll take we'll see it all unfold. It'll be amazing. Excited to have the chance to see you again, period.

[00:07:12] And I think it's like it's it's funny because just that idea of like like when we watch Survivor, so many metaphors. Everyone has like something to compare something else to. And like that is not me as a person. Like I am not. No. But similar to you, I feel like like I would never say you're not a good speaker because you you bring the passion to all of it. And then people feel that passion regardless of the exact words that come out. You know, I'm learning.

[00:07:40] So like, thank you. I just sometimes feel so when it comes to like just articulating myself or it's like I can't get the words out. And so I just I struggle with that. And so I really like when it came to like narrating the season, I remember telling Carson, I'm like, I doubt I'm going to barely get any confession. But that's where I'm like, I don't understand. I cannot relate to the people who have like, OK, here's this analogy for the game.

[00:08:10] And then it's like that thing. But I like I can't even give you an example of that because I just feel like my brain is not like that. For what? It's not at all. And when they told me, I remember like when I found the idol, they were like, do you have an analogy that would be similar to I go what? I go, I don't talk like that. And I don't do know.

[00:08:34] And I said, the only thing that comes to my mind is when I dug through my son's poop to find his tooth that he swallowed. That was it. I'm like, so if you want an analogy, like here's the poop tooth story. They want it. They love the poop tooth story. The most maybe the most memorable story on Survivor. Oh, my God. I don't know. What was I thinking? But I don't talk like that. And so I do think that like and that's another thing.

[00:09:01] I'll like side note where I feel like I'm not like knocking the people who've been on Survivor recently. But there's such like this intense. I feel like pressure to like be the super, super, super fan, because I feel like people think that like they will be loved more if they're huge, huge. I don't know. Do you know what I'm saying? Because back in the day, it used to be if you weren't a super fan, like you don't deserve to be there. And so it really changed this dynamic of like, well, no.

[00:09:30] And I've seen like we were trying to outdo each other's level of fandom. And what that's brought to is like, I really do. I feel like people go out there and they have like this Google. They've Googled all of these analogies that they are going to say in front of Jeff, because once people get to tribal, it's like, call on me. And I wanted to say this analogy. And I'm not like knocking people who do that. But I don't talk like that. And that's fine that they do. But it's like, do you even talk like that?

[00:09:59] Or are you just reciting what you think that they want to hear? Yeah. But, you know, I think like that's the beauty of it, too, because I think like you are a good example of someone who and like, obviously, we're not going to get as much into Survivor as we will into life and the world and everything else.

[00:10:17] But like, that's one of the things where like, look at you, like you did not bring all I mean, yes, there was the digging through the poop and getting the teeth for the tooth fairy, which like I had somewhere like that popped into my mind naturally. So that clearly left an impression. But it's like, it's like, yeah, maybe we'll see a world where like, in 10 years on Survivor, 10 seasons even on Survivor, it might not be as many analogies.

[00:10:44] Maybe it'll just be like people being like raw, real, inspiring, authentic, like all of that. And like, if people are anything like you, it'll just like bleed through the screen to people, which I, you know, that's who I'm all for, like the authentic of it all and the authenticity of it all. So yeah, no, please. No, but I am so like, just excited to dive into like your story.

[00:11:10] And one of the things that I sent you before is just that like, so often people have this impression of like, here's Carolyn, here's who Carolyn is. And I just kind of want to give you the space. Like sometimes I ask people the most open-ended question possible. So I'll ask you, Carolyn, like, who are you? Wow, this is so deep. I, the first word that came to my mind. No small talk. The first, no, I know, and I love this about this. Yeah.

[00:11:39] I have so much just empathy and compassion for, for Pete, and I'm probably going to forget what the question is halfway through. That's just how my brain works. But I have so much compassion for helping people for, if I'm that type of person where if, if I see somebody struggling or if I see somebody who needs help or is struggling, I am that first person. I want to like, be there. I want to aid them. I want to support them. I am going to, if I see someone crying, I start crying.

[00:12:07] I take on, like I do, I take on people's emotions where that's a bad thing too. And so, especially after all of this has like being on TV and all that stuff. It's like, I feel like because I have been so open, I feel like then obviously when we're open and we share, then other people want to share and are open.

[00:12:29] And so it, but it was like mentally draining me because I felt like I could not like answer all these, all, all these people and all. I felt like I wasn't able to be there for them. So I've learned within the last year, like I need to just like set healthy boundaries and take care of me too. Cause for a lot of my life, it was like, not put myself last.

[00:12:51] It wasn't like that, but it was like, I was almost like led to believe that, um, you know, I was selfish if I, if I did things for me, you know, because I have a son and I have other responsibilities, but it's like, that's not the case. And I've learned that if I don't take care of myself and if I don't, you know, have that self care that everybody fricking talks about. If I don't actually do it, I am nothing for any of the people that I love for myself. Like I'm not.

[00:13:21] So that's like, in a nutshell, like I do, I feel like I am just such a caring, compassionate, but I've really had to learn like to balance that, which then it's like, you don't respond to messages. And where are you? And you can, uh, you are authentic, but then you're not. Yeah. I'm like, I I'll never please everybody, but no, I'm, I compassion. I'm a compassionate person. I've been a drug counselor since 2011. Like that is, it's my passion and helping people.

[00:13:49] I used to work in the jails and I loved it. I love, I always say that I will always connect better with people who have struggled. And maybe that's not, maybe it's because I have too. And it's like, I can connect with you. I can relate to you. So, and I just, that's, that's, that's what I love. I like getting in there. I love people who've had that struggle, the trauma. Like, not that I love their trauma. Right. I love just being, just hearing people's stories. Truly.

[00:14:20] Yeah. No, it's the question. No, you did. You did. You answered the question. And I feel like there's so much there where like one, like it's, you know, people go through so much. And I feel like being quote unquote normal is not talking about your trauma, not talking about your struggle, which like is the least healthy thing that you could do to like choke it back and not talk about it.

[00:14:43] But like one of the things I really love from what you just shared is there is a ton of weight to like habit, like holding people's stories or struggles or traumas or whatever it might be. And it's, it's funny because I've done some other interviews for this season of PodFriends with people where I'm talking about like the RHAP live events. I love them. People should go to them.

[00:15:09] But one thing I've experienced between PodFriends and also the Pride has spoken, like I will often be on here on podcasts, but also in my work, very similar work, but work outside of RHAP, talking about like losing my dad and grief and loss and like how that affected me and the weight of that. Or I'll be talking about like being like a young black queer person and like those challenges or mental health and like identity and all these things.

[00:15:36] And so then, you know, I often will have conversations in our live shows with people about grief and loss or race or identity or mental health. And it like, I like, I love it in the moment to your point of like craving, like just like that connection. And then I'm like, I have, I crash, I crash after, after the fact, but like, I definitely relate. Yeah.

[00:16:01] And like the, the boundaries are important, but I also feel like, I mean, one thing that I find myself doing for better, for worse is like, yeah, I need to have boundaries because I'm putting in all of this like effort or like that I want to put in, but it's important to have the boundaries when you have them. Like disconnect when you do ask for forgiveness later when you reply, like, you know, seven months later or whatever it is. I don't know.

[00:16:28] Some messages, like I literally has been like two, like a year and a half, two years. And I'm like, I'm sorry. Oh my God. But I'm also giving myself some grace. Like I just can't, I can't. I mean, and the people, like the people who you want to talk with, like, will, like, they're not going to judge you for that or they'll understand that. It's so, exactly. So weed the rest out. And I forgot to say, and most importantly, I'm a mother. Yeah.

[00:16:56] You, you mentioned it somewhere in there, but actually, you know what? Since you mentioned it, like, we're just going to get right into it. I'm going to, I didn't expect this to come up so quickly, but I actually have a special voice message for you. A video message actually for you from someone from your cast who has a question that they want to ask you. We're just going to go. This is like very Jerry Springer. I was like, I did not. It's only 11.

[00:17:27] I was, I was not able to get a message from your, your son. Did you, but here's, here's the question. We'll just get into it since we're going to be all over the place in this conversation. That's the beauty of it. But here is the one. Well, she'll introduce. No, it's not live. I love your reaction to this. I'm going to hit play. I'm going to hit play. Hello. This is Franny. You're from a Minnesotan season 44 girly.

[00:17:52] Um, I got to say, I am so excited already to listen to this episode of pod friends because, um, you lead such a joyful and incredible life. And I can't wait for people to hear about it. I'm also so proud of you that you're about to be on the traders. That's so fricking cool. Um, I had never seen the show and Matt and I, my Matt, um, not Matt Scott. We haven't seen each other in so long.

[00:18:17] Um, Matt and I started watching the traders to like understand, you know, the show and what it's all about. And I like cannot picture you on there. So whatever is about to happen in January, I think is going to blow all of our minds and I cannot wait to see it. Um, but I have a question for you, which is I have had the great pleasure to meet your amazing son, Luca on several occasions, hanging out in Minnesota, going to the state fair.

[00:18:44] And he is genuinely one of the most like polite, well-adjusted, curious, and like well-spoken children I have ever interacted with. He is such a good kid. Um, I want to ask you, first of all, what do you love most about being his mom? And second of all, give us some parenting advice here. Like you are such an incredible mother to him and you have raised him to be such a wonderful kid. How do you do it?

[00:19:12] What, what do you think is the special sauce that has made your relationship so strong and so special? Cause I think we can all learn a lot from it. Okay. I can't wait to hear this. Um, I love you. I miss you. And we'll talk soon. Bye. I didn't think I would like start like getting teary. This is like, Oh, that was nice. I, uh, Franny is, Franny is such a sweetheart by the way.

[00:19:37] And I, I actually, the first time I met Franny was at like, as you prepare, as you write, as you bring yourself back together. I met her like before her, before your season at a live event here in DC. And I don't know what it was. She just had this infectious energy. And I went up to her and I was like, hi, I'm Matt. And she's like, Oh my gosh. Like I love RHIP. And it was, we had such a bond.

[00:20:00] And I literally messaged her like less than 24 hours ago and was like, Hey, do you want to send Carolyn a question? And so she just sent that in. And thank you, Franny for being part of this episode of Podfriends. But I, I was, I love, I love her question. I wasn't sure where it was going about just parenting advice. Shout out to Luca. Of course. We getting lots of Luca shout outs between the poop and the, you know, everything else. So he's my, he's my everything.

[00:20:29] And Franny, see, Franny is another one of those people who's so great too, at just like bringing the pep and the enthusiasm. And then she's such a good speaker. Yeah. No, but like, what, I don't know. Do you have a response? Anything you want to share? Response to Franny? But I'm okay. I, my son is first of all, like being his mom, like he, we went through this period where like, I felt like he was my best friend and we did everything together.

[00:20:56] And I did, I had like a grieving period of like, he's growing up and getting bigger. And I wasn't you like, but then it was like, okay, I got to let the, like, let the little birdie fly out of the nest. But it was, it was, it took me a little bit to like, accept that, like, cause we, I, I've always been that type of mom. Who's like in the dirt with them going sled, going skate. Like we are very active together. So I'm that mom who I remember getting Roblox and getting a Roblox account.

[00:21:25] We can Pokemon together. We, everything that he was doing, I wanted like, and it wasn't like, I was just like, can I come too? It was like, mom, get a Roblox account. And I remember, you know how hard it was for me to even understand that at first, this was like 2000. When did it come out? It was like 2017 or 18. And I was like, oh my gosh, same with Minecraft. I was like, I don't understand this.

[00:21:51] It took me three years to spawn the wither storm. Do you know what that is? I don't even know what that is. I have, I have a six year old nephew and a two year old nephew. And I just relate to like all of the, like, what are you even doing? And why is this so hard for me to learn to do? So it was so hard. I told Carson, if I would have known you like back then, anyway, three years and I didn't give up. And I was so proud. Like, I remember he came home and I'm like, I did it.

[00:22:21] Like, I just, I wouldn't give up. But that's the kind of mom I am where I want to be involved in the things that he's doing. I actually, like, I care. I never wanted to be that mom who was like sitting on the sidelines, just watch, no judgment. But like, who's just kind of watching her kid grow up. Like, no, I want to be involved. I want to be on the floor with you playing with your toys and making slime and doing all that. So as he's gotten older, yeah, it sucks. It's like, oh my gosh, I'm not your best friend anymore.

[00:22:48] But at the same time, it's like, I have those memories and he's still done. Like, of course, we're still close and he wants to do things with me, which I'm grateful for. And I'll never, ever, it's like, I'm accepting that he's growing up. And so now as a mom, it's all like, can I talk about puberty? Like, we're all talking puberty and I have been that person. Like, talking puberty. You know how terrified I was to do that?

[00:23:15] But the fact that he trusts me and wants me to talk about this stuff with him, like, he's like, yeah, mom. And so, of course, I get, because I don't know all these parts. And so I get all the books and like the, I'm not kidding you. I'm like, I need to be able to, because I'm like, if I don't teach my son this stuff, the world will. So like, I'm teaching about love and kindness and everything. We have a book where it's like, we just, I, because I get so, because I believe like hatred is learned.

[00:23:43] And racism is like, you're learning that and you're learning that from your home life. So it's like, you know what? No, he is going to learn about love and acceptance of, of all people. And I talk, I'm very open with him, whether it be about my own, like, he knows about my struggles. He knows, like, what I've been through. He knows that I've dated men and women. I talk about that. I've talked to him about, this is what pansexual means.

[00:24:12] I want him to know that the flags that we have in our house, we, we are open to all people. When he goes to his, his grandpa's house, it's like, he, cause my dad has all these like pride flags everywhere. And it's like, what are, like, I want him to know what those are. Like, we love everyone and teach him that. So that, like, as a mom, it's like, there's nothing, I would just say, like, I remember what it was like to be 11.

[00:24:41] You know, I've gotten older, but I still remember what it was like. And it's like, as he's getting older, he's going to have peer pressure. He's going to have, I'm not going to act like I don't know that that stuff exists. So I create an open doorway of communication where it's like, hey, I want, because I want him to be able to come to me with things and not be scared and not be anxious or not feel like. So I'll just bring things up and be like, you can talk to me about anything.

[00:25:08] Because my biggest fear is like when he is in trouble or when something, like if something were to happen that he didn't call me. So it's like, I want him to know no matter what you do or if you feel like you're in the most trouble in the world, you can call me. So I create this open, this open door of like, we're going to talk about it. Like, we talk about everything. Oh, my gosh. That's so beautiful, though, too, because like now I'm like 32, young millennial.

[00:25:34] And I feel like, like people talk about millennial, like I love millennial parents because it's just like bring in a lot of things that are not traumatizing us in the same ways that maybe our parents do. But my parents were like baby boomers. They weren't even like Jenna, they're baby boomers. And like, yeah, it was impossible for them. And still with my mom, like she it's still impossible for like have those direct conversations about about things.

[00:26:03] Right. And I think like you could go in so many different directions. You could go in the same direction or you could like push back and think, OK, how could I like with my nephews or if I have kids one day or with young kids? Like, how could I push back and like be whatever it is? Because you mentioned it like, yeah, remembering what remembering what it was like to be 11 and like, you know, you're like secretive or like you're like, I can't have these conversations.

[00:26:30] And so it's beautiful that like your son will actually talk with you about all of those things and anything. And that's like that's a credit to you, though. Like it's it's yeah, I still I'm sure that that isn't really common at all. So it's cool to hear that you opening up doesn't like scare him and he doesn't run the other direction, basically. No, he asked questions. And like, like I said, even with the puberty, I felt I was putting it off. I was like, are you sure?

[00:26:59] Like and I'm like, no, I need to like, Carolyn, I need it. But I did all the prep work I did. I'm like I and again, more than anything, I just want him to be able to come to me when he needs to and feel safe and feel OK. So but it's funny to me because between I hate to go back to the poop, like digging through the poop story between that and then this like. I mean, I was going to say at first, like, oh, my gosh, Carolyn, you have so much determination like but and you do.

[00:27:28] But I feel like the two examples that we've talked about are with your son and like with your son. And it sounds to me like you are like willing to move mountains, do whatever it takes. And that's like, it gets me a little choked up to think about that. Oh, my gosh. There we go. He's my everything. We're going to go.

[00:28:20] Like one of the things that comes to mind for me when I think of you, obviously, like authenticity and just being yourself, self-acceptance, all of that. But like, I'm sure, of course, that's that's all stuff that your son is picking up on and like soaking in. But like I I'm so curious for you between like your sobriety journey, like pansexuality. You've talked about ADHD.

[00:28:48] Like I mentioned sobriety, addiction, all that stuff, all these other elements of who you are. Like, how did you get to this place of and I also will say I'm sure it's still continues to be a journey. Right. But like, oh, God, I mean, yeah, please. I know. And I make sure I really do. I make sure to tell like this isn't like a one and done and I'm cured and I'm perfect and I know all the answers.

[00:29:18] I may do like life coaching and talk to people, but that doesn't mean shit as far as that. I have it all together. I don't. And I remember like going through just leaving an abusive relationship. And I remember thinking like, oh, gosh, I want to talk about some of this stuff. But it's like I can't help people with this if I'm if I just left and I want to be.

[00:29:43] But of course, when I open up and I share it, then I the beauty of that is like so many people come forward. And that's what I want to use my platform for to help people. And it's like the amount of people who then come forward. And it's like even when I meet with people, it's like there is no deadline. Like I should be healed by this point or I should feel normal by this point now.

[00:30:07] And so just because I'm not 100 percent perfect or what I'm looking for, we're like, I don't know when I'll ever be like complete. And so it's like I'm not going to stop helping people. So I'm very open about like here. No, I still struggle with this. This is a journey. It's ongoing. I remember getting sober and thinking that and I laugh about it now. But I remember thinking like I've done so much work on myself. I've done so much therapy.

[00:30:36] I've done so much like journaling about my food. What do I want to work on in my I just don't like I every when I got sober, I thought of all of the things like, OK, I didn't know how to communicate. I didn't know how I didn't accept myself. I didn't blah, blah, blah. So I wrote them all down and I was like, I am going to work on all of this stuff and I'm going to put all like my all into it. So once I did that for like a long time, I was like, OK, I'm done.

[00:31:06] And I truly believe that I believe that I could just go to treatment, go to therapy, keep going, blah, blah, blah. And then it was done. And then I realized, holy shit, like it doesn't work that way. Stuff is going to continuously happen. It's not just a one and done. And so I've learned like, no, this is something that is an ongoing thing where I seek out support and help. And there's days like I remember I was like, I've done so much damn therapy.

[00:31:34] Like, yeah, but it's like I know when I need to or I know where I need to go to a support group or I know when I need to talk to other women. Like, I I'm healthy in that regard. But it's it's an ongoing journey that I will always like the addiction stuff. It'll always be a part of me. I'll always and I'll have ups and downs. Yeah, no. And I think it's like I always admire anyone.

[00:32:00] Like there was one person I interviewed who he's not a podcaster, but he's an RHP patron. Greg Dunlap, who I interviewed once like a year and a half ago on PodFriends. And because he emailed me and he's like, hey, Matt, like I have a story. I've been sober for X, Y, Z long. And we just talked so much about it.

[00:32:19] And what's surprising or I guess what I didn't expect is that like so many people reach out to me and say, hey, could you have this person on and talk, you know, ask them about their sobriety or have them talk about that? Because it is still so stigmatized, just like everything, everything else that you that you list out. But I feel like you are like a sword against stigma. Oh, my gosh. Now I'm getting into my like survivor analogy era. But like, no, you're pushing back against stigma in so many ways, which I think is pretty cool.

[00:32:49] It's freeing. It's like, if I'm not hurt, like, again, it's not like I like love being like telling people all my flaws, like, but it's just so freeing. And I think of T, sorry, survivor is fresh on my mind. Of course. I'm thinking of T last night when T was like, sorry, Sam, like, I've realized that I'm projecting all of my insecurities on T. And I was like, that is so beautiful that they can do that.

[00:33:18] And just, you know, people wouldn't want to do that on TV and they wouldn't want to talk about like their insecurities. They wouldn't. And to have that level of insight that, you know what, I am projecting this onto you, Sam. I was like, wow. That's like next level. I thought it was amazing. So that's really. Oh, I know. It's insane, too, because even with the two of them, I don't remember what role they played in the play, but there's a whole scene where. Earlier in the season, we're like, they played the same role.

[00:33:46] And I, I relate to teeny so much in that sense, like shout out to teeny for that, because it's like, yeah, like sometimes you look like there. I'm not as like this as them or that is them. And I feel like the place to be where I mean, you and so many other people are just examples that help me. But like, screw that. Like, I don't need to be like that person or that person or that person. Like I am me. Like I have.

[00:34:13] And there's there's so much beauty in that and not trying to be someone else because who you are is like uniquely, beautifully, perfectly, imperfectly you. Right. We've tried everything. It's like, have you? Yeah. That's in so many people will be like, well, Carolyn, when I am myself, people don't like me or when I'm like, give it, give it a chance.

[00:34:37] Give it a chance for a little bit, because we already know that like trying to fit in or trying to be this mold to get people. Then you're just like dead inside. Truly. It's like such a lonely, dead feeling. And so but I'm not like even in this regard, like especially on Survivor, I had like my ups and my downs. But I 100 percent like I went in so proud of myself. And I did like being there because I would see the looks that people would give me sometimes. And it's like that.

[00:35:07] I'm not going to lie and be like, that didn't hurt. But what what like where I got upset with myself is, again, like believing it and letting it get to me. That's where I'm like, never again. Because it's like, again, starting the game so confident and so like, you know, I've gone through this and that. And I'm so proud of myself. And then when you have people look at you like, what the hell? Yeah. I was like, because I totally expected to.

[00:35:36] Yeah. OK, I get like how I'm perceived sometimes. But once people actually get to know me and have like a conversation with me, it's different. I just didn't expect that. So, yeah, it's just I still have my moments where I'm like, oh, but it's I really try not to let people get in my head. Or I'm very again, it's not to say that like things don't hurt my feelings or.

[00:36:06] But I am I'm blessed with the I've been saying this. I'm blessed with the ability to just not care sometimes, especially when I never have had that. Like if there's a group of people and they're all like gathering and I'm not going to think like, oh, crap, I got it. Like, let me go over to that group and say something fun or say like to be a part of it.

[00:36:29] I have no problem just sitting back and like, OK, I'll just wait until even. And I think like even on TV, like I don't care. I don't care if I look like cool on TV or if I look like I'm a part of like the popular group or what. I don't know. But that's not cool. Like, it's cool to be yourself and it's cool to just like do your own thing.

[00:36:54] Like when you're following someone else's path, it's like, oh, that whether on Survivor or not, it's like, oh, that person is the next so and so. That person's the next so and so. But how about being the first Carolyn? How about being the first Matt Scott? Like, why not? You know, it's like it's it reminds me of something that I saw on your Instagram in your Instagram bio that's there right now. You said that you're in your freedom era.

[00:37:23] I don't know what that means, what that looks like. What is your freedom? What's your freedom era in your words? OK, so my freedom era, leaving, leaving an abusive relationship and finally just listening to my heart, listening to my gut, listening to input. But just putting putting my wants and desires and needs and just taking care of myself.

[00:37:48] That's the freedom era, not being tied down or just standing up for myself for the for the first time in a long time. Yeah, good. Like that's freedom. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm also just like thinking about all this and everything we're talking about. And also like this will come out in January. So New Year, New Year, New You, all that for people.

[00:38:15] And I think it's a good time for people to hear that message because there's so much pressure with New Year's resolutions and all of that to like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh huh. Uh huh. It's rough. Yeah. No, no, no, no. No, I can't. I can't. I can't. Because the thing is, the times that I've tried. I'll get a month. I'll get a month in. And it's it's like, what are we doing? And then I adjust.

[00:38:42] I'm like, OK, let me be sane and calm and balanced and like do my best with whatever I want to do, but also like have grace for myself. What's your what's your relationship with New Year's resolutions? Are you asking me? Yeah. I don't even have I never have. I don't even know. I can't even remember the last time I've had one, because, again, I believe that if it's the same thing, like it's the stance I take with running.

[00:39:09] If I go running and like put like I need to do X amount of miles in this amount of time and blah, blah. If I put it like this, it doesn't make it fun. It doesn't make it makes it something I dread. So like when I hear New Year's resolution, I hear hell. So like that does not sound appealing. It sounds like a death sentence. It sounds like prison. I don't want to know that's putting too much pressure on me.

[00:39:35] So like even when I run or when I work out or do any of that, I don't have like call the bomb. I don't have goals or I don't set. I'll go and run. And if I want to stop, I'll stop. I'll start skipping. I'll like I don't I don't like rules like that. But I think it's I think what's cool about that, too, is like just physically like between working out like I'm someone who when I really started to like truly work out a lot, which was like a year and a half ago.

[00:40:03] I had the realization like, oh, my gosh, like me doing it and me trying and like showing better than what I was doing before or like now I'm swimming more. And it's like, oh, like working on my swimming, like, oh, my gosh, like that's better than me not doing it at all. So it's like it's not even like I have a goal around it because I'm just like, yeah, I want to do the thing and I'm doing the thing. So I'm like, yes, already doing pressure. So that's what I like. I like that. Well, I want it. But I'm curious.

[00:40:33] I like talking about like goals and what they look like, because I'm and I'm not a life coach, but you've been doing life coaching. I want to make sure to talk about that because I would imagine people come in with like, here's a goal or here's a problem with me or like, Carolyn, I admire you. And I just feel like things are off and I need your help or like how what does that look like to like be life coached by you?

[00:41:02] I ask because I've literally seen you post the life coaching stuff. I'm like, am I going to I've hovered over the button? I'm like, am I going to sign up to be life coached with slash by Carolyn? So but what's that actually like for you? And like, what do you help or like what do you support people through, I guess?

[00:41:22] So that all started because, again, I was getting so many messages and I would same with cameos where it's like, hey, will you just give me some inspiration? I still get taught like the pep talks. I do so many pep talks and sometimes it's like just schedule a session anyway. But sometimes people just want that quick like and I've learned to that, like not every because I'm like, why are these people doing cameos instead of booking a session?

[00:41:50] But I get to that. Not everyone wants to like do a video face to face where it's like maybe I need to do a better job of telling people like you don't have to be on video. I'll be on video, but we can do phone or whatever. But I've got so many messages about like here. Will you just give me a pep talk or hey, I've struggled with this. So it's always addiction. So the addiction struggle or like fitting in. How do I just, yes, become my authentic self.

[00:42:20] How are you able to do that? And then I've been getting like since opening up about about leaving an abusive relationship. I've gotten so many people who have struggled with that or just wanted to connect based off the just hey, like how did you do it? How are you like what's helping you now? So those are like my main things.

[00:42:46] And it's I mean, I get a wide range of people sometimes. I mean, I had someone who just they had booked a session session with me just because they were a fan of Survivor. Like I get a lot of those. Yeah, I imagine. They're fans and then they just want to like talk to me and we'll have like a session. But the ones that I'm like, not I don't want to be actually helping, but like the ones that I do sessions with. It's like it's amazing to be able to see them come in like just so nervous and scared and shy.

[00:43:14] And then really just see them blossom and become comfortable in their skin. And it's just it's beautiful. I love it. I this is like a dream being able to do this and talk with people and hear people's stories. So, yes, it's usually like I want to be more comfortable and we'll just go through scenarios or little steps that they can take or what what's going on in their life right now. What do they want to change? OK, here, let's let's walk. Let's walk.

[00:43:44] But also I share and I share about myself and my own experiences and just my experience may not work for you, but I'm very open. Even when I if I'm struggling right now, I'll sit like I don't try to be this like professional person. You know what I'm saying? No. Yeah, no. It's real. But that's the thing.

[00:44:04] Like we don't like if you're surrounded by people who are all like buttoned up and they're like super, quote unquote, professional and they act a certain way. Like you don't think you could be anything outside of that. And I feel like for me, even like something I'm constantly trying to do, which podcasting has helped with like my work, which is interviewing people and like also just doing stuff on camera and talk, speaking and sharing my story and being open.

[00:44:31] Like the only way you get better at that is one like being surrounded by people who you see and you're like, oh, that like I could do that, too. But then also just like doing it, doing it. Yes. That is huge. It's huge. So and so many people tell me like, you know, I wanted to because I always say like I'm not a replacement for therapy. I'll always say that. Yeah. But they'll say like because you share so much because you are so open about your imperfections and about your struggles.

[00:45:00] It's like I feel comfortable and safe talking to you. And I love hearing that. I hear that so much like that. You're not this perfect person who has like has it all together. And I've never. Lame to be that, you know. Yeah. No, it's it's I don't know where I first heard this from, but like there was someone who I was listening to or talk or talking to her, maybe like a bunch of combinations of conversations. But like somebody said, like courage comes before confidence.

[00:45:29] Like you don't need to have it all together and everything figured out. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that means. And I have like I have two little tiny tattoos compared with like your many, many tattoos. But I have one that's like courage on my wrist with a heart. And of course, I can't hold it up. Oh, there we go. Courage with a heart for the O and then lemonade as in take lemons and make lemonade on the other wrist. Both both in honor of my dad. Right.

[00:45:55] So it's like take the things that have been like, you know, frankly, shitty in your life and like make something of it or embrace your strength. But like it's it's so important just to like take the courageous step sometimes, even if you're freaking out and like not sure where that'll go. So I feel like you're a good example of that. Right. Like, no, absolutely. And it's like even all the struggles that I've been through in my life, I'm not going to lie.

[00:46:24] There's there's been days where I'm like, like I think of addiction. I never wanted to be addicted. I never wanted to have that like be a part of my story. But I'm so glad that it is. And at the time, of course, it's like this sucks. This is awful. Same with the the abuse stuff and leaving. Like I never in a million years and I'm finally starting to see like the or for the last, I don't know, six months or so.

[00:46:53] I've been like seeing like the blessings and the the. Do you know what? Like, yeah, this all happens for a reason. And this is like just taught me so much. And I don't want to be like, oh, I'm I'm glad I experienced these horrible things like because they taught me a lesson. Now, like I don't think that anyone should have to experience that stuff to like, whoo, to grow or whatever. But it truly it's it's like has shaped the person that I am today.

[00:47:22] And I'm proud of that. Like, I think one thing that's just I mean, that I'm thankful for just to thank you for is that because you're so visible with so much like it really. It makes it really easy for other people to like what will one even going into this? Like I said to you, Carolyn, hey, like I don't want to I don't like to bring up anyone's traumas or challenges for them. Like I'd like to give people that space.

[00:47:51] And you're like, I'm an open book, like wherever you want to go. And I really appreciate that. But I also just think like a lot of people don't hear back to the idea of stigma, like don't hear people talk about like domestic violence, for instance, and all of the challenges with that. And back when I was in college and then after for a few years, I was like really involved in sexual assault awareness and working with survivors and supporting survivors.

[00:48:17] And so I'm already like following you because of Survivor, the show. But then when you came out and shared everything that you shared on like on Instagram and just like pictures and everything else with your story, one, that takes like an insane amount of courage.

[00:48:36] But also there are so many people who like whether you've heard from them or not, I'm sure so many people who've benefited from like you just like being open and real because like anything. But I'm sure especially abuse could feel insanely lonely. Insanely lonely. Yeah, I was like going through this and I remember like, oh, gosh, I don't especially like coming off a survivor.

[00:49:05] And I felt like people looked at me a certain way and were so proud of me. Like not everyone, obviously, but like, wow, she's such a fighter. And she's so. And so I remember thinking like, how could it? And I don't think this anymore, but it was like, how could I let this happen to me? How could I? I was embarrassed. I didn't want to talk about it. I truly was embarrassed because it was like, what is wrong with me? Why did this happen to you? Whoa, my gosh.

[00:49:32] And I don't want people to think that I'm this like weak person who puts up with. I was embarrassed. I truly. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. But that's why I need to talk about it. Because it's like, look at like, oh, look at everything. And my life is because we try to like mask it and everything's so great. And it's like, no, this is the reality of behind closed doors. It was not great.

[00:49:59] So I just and I've learned, too. It's like I don't I learned that I was like trying to put this image out like where I'm like, that's exactly what I don't want to do. I don't want people. No. So I'm sharing. I have I'm sharing and just being able to connect with people and hear other stories or people I've had like that's what it's about, because that's what helped me. And that's what helped me get out of it is hearing other people's stories and the oh, God.

[00:50:29] So it's like, yeah, I need to pass it along. So any way that I can just like share about any any struggle or like good thing, I like to just share it. I really do. Because you never know who you're going to help. Yeah. No. And I also I feel like as you're saying that I'm just picturing the idea of like a balloon that's just like about to pop and like you need to you need to let the air out like or else it's going to pop. And that's not great.

[00:50:58] It's not good. You don't want to get there. So no, oh, gosh, it's rough. But I want to I want to go back to like with all this in mind to the idea of community, because I'm I know you've been a day one Survivor fan. But I don't even know which part of this I want to bring up. One is like before Survivor, didn't you did you do like an LRG, a live reality game type of thing?

[00:51:27] Like I did. You did so many. I didn't do like I didn't do the ones where you're like there. Is that the online ones? Right. I was a creepy like troll online and but not a creepy troll. I would do them online. I used to do these. And we were like, I'm not kidding you.

[00:51:53] And I tell people who have applied who are like, how do I get on Survivor? And I'm like, I have no idea. But this is what helps me. And this is the truth. I did video confessionals for all of my games. So like we have like confessionals and somebody I got started with those things from someone on Reddit asked me. Okay. And I went by the name cakes. Um, and I was myself in my whole game was like exact.

[00:52:22] I'm not kidding you exactly how I like played Survivor. It was exactly how I played like in these games. But I would do video confessionals for all of my confessionals. And that helped me so much with the camera. I'm not some natural like, hello. My first like audition video, I remember because people say like, you're so animated. It's distracting. Yeah. So my first video, I was like, hello. I, and I didn't want to move too much.

[00:52:52] No, where I got comfortable with the camera and comfortable talking was from those online reality games, the Survivor ones. Cause I would every, I mean, I was in the casting process for 41 when I was, um, playing these games. I remember I got caught and I'm like, then I got voted out of my game. Oh my God. I love, they're addicting. I don't do them anymore. Like I retired. Yeah. They're, they're intense. I'll, I've never done any of those online games.

[00:53:22] I did one live game, which was Survivor Philadelphia. It's on YouTube season two head versus heart, which I feel like you would like, you'd be on the heart tribe with me, Carolyn. We would have, we would have been an alliance. We would have been an alliance. Like you would have beat me in the end of the game, but it would have been worth it. But no, it's like it being in that and then doing the confessionals. Cause it, it's a one day game. So it's 14 hours. Oh, it's only back to back, back to back, to back, to back, to back, to back, Carolyn.

[00:53:51] Like it's so fast paced. You could barely eat because the adrenaline's pumping. So you're like, oh, there's pizza for our merge feast. I can't eat because I want to make sure I'm strategizing and like looking for idols. Don't you hate that crap? It's, it is no time. Yeah. But it's like, no, it's so insane. It was so insane though. But it also like one oddly taught me a lot about myself and how I react in like high pressure situations.

[00:54:19] And two, it taught me like, oh, like that, that's, that's the survivor version of me. Like I, it's just, I was having so much fun along the way and also so stressed along the way. And also something that I feel like I've heard that I learned from that is like, you really need to believe in yourself for these things. Cause I was, I was talking with, uh, Kellen Bechtold who also has a podcast on RHP road to reality.

[00:54:46] And she said, one thing about winners of survivor is that most of them knew actually maybe all of them knew that they were going to win. They knew that they could win, which I'm like, but that's why. Yeah. I'm like, well, I was listening. So last night, the finale, I think it was Rachel who was like, yes, I wouldn't be out here if I didn't think I can win. And I remember I said to my sister, I was like, I didn't even think I would make the merge. But that's the thing too.

[00:55:15] Like sometimes you have to just believe you have to truly believe. And then I don't, I don't understand how that works. It magically happens. I think it was like, I don't know if it was seen teeny and Sam or who was right there or no, maybe it was Sue and Sam who were right there. And Sam asked, uh, ask Rachel that question. And she was like, yep, no, I, I know I can win. I knew that I wouldn't like, uh, I want to bring that energy into all of my life. So that's one thing like I've learned.

[00:55:44] I absolutely didn't feel that. I didn't like, I have no way. So did you feel like you had to act a certain way being that it was recorded? No, I was like, I was so, I think I was really comfortable and it's funny because we recorded it and I was like having a great time in the confessionals being sassy, doing all these other things. And you just don't know how you're going to react. Like, and you don't know how it'll come play back when you watch it on YouTube.

[00:56:11] And look, I had, if you watch it, you're like, wow, Matt's having a great time. And the game, like, I also made it to the end and I was a zero vote finalist, Carolyn. So I'm going to have to watch this because I love, you know, how many people I've like just friends who have played on the Facebook groups. Like I love that. I've, I've, there's a, it's called live to give Minnesota. They do a weekend one every year. I went down Adam Klein, play that one.

[00:56:39] Like I, I love them. So I will absolutely like, I would not play them again, but like, they're intense. They're intense. They're really intense. But beyond, beyond the live game or the live and online games, I want to ask you like, well, I want to ask you about like any experiences, notable experiences, highlights you've had like connecting with the community around Survivor since the, since the show.

[00:57:07] But I actually have to tell you a story because I was at RHAP in Brea, in Brea, California. And it was so, you know, there's just a lot happening and it's, I'm sure it's overwhelming. Did I meet you? And now I don't remember. Here's what happens. Here's what happens. Not really, but kind of because what happened is I walk in with like a bunch of the podcasters

[00:57:33] and you are there in the lobby in a lobster suit because it's Halloween night. So I was wearing like a Bryce Isaiah Halloween costume. Okay, yeah. So there was that, but I walk in and I don't know, like I'm probably already feeling like slightly overwhelmed or whatever else. We're rushing to get in the episodes about to start, but you're there in the lobby. And then you just like reached over and gave me a big hug, like no words, just a big hug.

[00:58:03] And then, and then we, everyone just walked in. And like, that is, it's so funny to me because it just was such a random moment. But I'm like, this is Carolyn, like Carolyn just love and spewing love and all of that. But as overwhelming as I know those, those environments could be for a bunch of different people. Like that to me will always stand out. Like I was, you did. I was at the bar and I was like, I could picture where you were because there was literally a line

[00:58:33] wrapping around. And I remember thinking, Carolyn, you had a long line. And it's funny because I just had seen, um, just speaking of the community, um, I think of, of course, Owen Knight, but his wife now, Sammy, um, I saw you share something about just how she like got you water and was like being supportive at different events. And like, that was what was going on through my mind where I'm like, oh my gosh, does Carolyn need anything?

[00:59:03] Like, is it like, how's she doing? There's a line wrapping around to go up and probably have, I'm guessing like, um, you know, a lot of like lovely, but like intense conversations. And again, I welcome it. I'm like, this is what I'm here for as far as like, that's why I shared so much, but it can, it's a lot in like when, when, especially when the season was airing, I was like, Carson's like, you need to learn to just smile and be like, thank you.

[00:59:31] And I'm like, I can't. And so I would go to these things and I would just start running. Like, I remember, um, I would just get so overwhelmed. And so like the wives, like the Jesse Lopez's wife, um, Rebecca was always so helpful. Sammy, like, cause I had no idea what like to expect from any of these. And I didn't even go to like a ton. And I went to like three during my season and so, and then the breakout, that's the last

[00:59:59] event I've even been to is that. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I don't go to a ton, but it, it, again, I love hearing people's stories. It's like, that's what I like. That's why I share, but it can be like, Oh, I need a break. I know. It's, it's funny. Cause I feel like on, uh, this season of pod friends and maybe it's because this fall I was at RHAP in New York and I was at Bryson when in Philly, then in Houston for RHAP the

[01:00:27] next week, then in DC where I live for Bryson when, and I just feel like I love, I love when people come up and share and connect because the thing is whether it's with survivor or let's get tribal. Like you might see the reviews and the comments, but it's not like, it doesn't fully feel real until someone's in front of you and they're like, Hey, here's who I am. This is my story. This is how you've like impacted me in different ways.

[01:00:55] And so like, I never want to discourage people from doing that because that's why I like, I am addicted to going to those, but at the same time, like, you know, it is, it's a lot. And I guess I wonder like how have your, I don't even know what the question is. Like, how have you, what do boundaries look like? What does self-care and like recharging look like for you? Um, cause that's what I'm trying to figure out how to recharge. I have no idea because I'm still struggling with it.

[01:01:23] And that's why I, I'm not kidding you. Um, yeah. And I'm not saying I'm like some day I'm uncomfortable even when they have like the cast release for traders. And it's like this celebrity season. I laugh every time I hear that because it's like, I'm not a celebrity. And like, sorry, like there's what's a celebrity anyway. I guess Boston Rob is, but like, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't like, come on.

[01:01:53] So I don't mean to like, be like, Oh, everywhere I go, everyone. But like, I, I was at, um, home goods, uh, recently. And I'm not kidding you. I was in there for two hours, two hours listening to someone's story. And like, I like, that's a problem. And I'm like, I came in here to buy a pillow and I am like comforting this person. And like, and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I gotta go. So it's like, I have a hard time. So when I go places, I'm not even kidding you.

[01:02:23] And it's not because like, and it's not like I get stopped everywhere. And please stop me. If you see me, like, I love it. I just don't have that ability to be like, um, cause I'm not going to like shut someone up. I mean, I do have that ability, but it's still very hard for me. And so I'll go and, um, I just, yeah, I get drained sometimes. So I have that, especially if somebody is like really pouring their heart out. So then typically I'll be like, Oh shit, I gotta go.

[01:02:49] Um, but like doing traders that took a lot out of me. I came home. I'm not kidding you. I just went into hibernation for a while. I was like, I don't want my phone. I don't want to really go out or do anything. And I'm not like a super, like, I don't go out and party. My party is like, I'll be hanging out with my son, my sister, my dog. I am not someone who's like, I need to be out and about or no. So I really, truly, I I'm a homebody.

[01:03:20] I like, like, like even when Carson comes and stays with me, we literally go to the grocery store. We'll buy a bunch of candy and we'll like, that's amazing. Play Pokemon. Like, that's what I like. So that's how I recharge. But I do, I do like take, just spend that time to take care of me, whether it be journaling, meditating, um, going on walks. Um, I go up to the North shore is my favorite.

[01:03:46] I've been up there recently, but like superior water, like I am, um, I love like people and I love, but I get worn out. So, like I said, after like the traders are doing these events, I'm just exhausted after all. Yeah. So I'll do like one a year. Yeah. But you know, it's like knowing yourself and knowing what you can do and just like, like limit having boundaries around that's important.

[01:04:14] And you know, it's like, it's nice to just be home and be like, I like just like the chill one-on-one calm, quiet. I mean, I have to say it like the everyone, everything going on at once, you know, slightly more overwhelming environments. I love those two once in a while. It is nice to just like, also be like, be boring. It's nice. Absolutely. Like that.

[01:04:40] I love just hanging out on my couch or like, just be like, you want to go to the dog park? Like, I am not some fancy person. It's like, like, like I said, like the traders and like, that was so like out of my element. Like it's far like, I don't, I don't go in castles. Like, so it was cool to like, but I needed to recharge after that for sure. Cause that's a lot. Yeah. No, I can't, I can't even imagine, uh, but excited to see it unfold.

[01:05:09] Look, I have even more questions for you. We'll like get to that. I'm going to get to what I call 15 minutes with friends in a bit, but for now, I only have one more question for you for like this part of the podcast, which is a big question I ask everybody. So like just zooming, zooming out, which is Carolyn, if your life were a book or documentary,

[01:05:37] what would the title be and why? I actually, it's interesting that you're asking that because I actually, um, have a book coming out. No, I don't, but I want to, and I have a title for it, but I don't want to say it now. Don't say that. Don't say that. But it's so good. And Carson helped me with the cover. No, don't say, okay. I'm going to get, I'm going to get the book. So I can't think of it because I actually do have a book. No, I'm not again.

[01:06:07] This is just like a dream. Yeah. Um, no, it's you, it's happening. It's happening. You can get one. I'm like, can someone write this for me? What do they call that? Like, Oh, um, ghost writer, a ghost. Yeah. Maybe it's like that would take away all of the authenticity. I feel like it's like, but it's not though. If it's you, your words, like you talking. Cause I think a lot of that's like them interviewing you and then they write it and all that fun stuff. Um, so I don't look, I don't think Parvati wrote her own book.

[01:06:37] I honestly, maybe I could imagine. Cause I could imagine her like meditating. I'm excited to check that out. I just, I literally just today saw the, like, what is it? Good, good girls don't never win or whatever. Right. Right. I'm dying to see that in July. It looks like it's coming out. So yeah, honestly, speaking of Parvati, I will say like, I have my little pride has spoken

[01:07:06] podcast buff here, but like, look, if we're trying me, Evie, Evie, and then our other co-host Grace, who's also a podcast, we want Parvati on the pride has spoken. If any, if Parvati is listening, get her on the podcast. We'll record any time between now and pride month. I'm sure we'll, we'll wake up at 2am if we have to for Parvati, like we will do it like that. She's a hero for me on so many levels.

[01:07:33] Um, and a lot of things that we've talked about here, just like overlap with like, just like the violence and also just meditation and mindfulness and taking care of yourself and like what she's, she's an icon. And I also just love how, as someone who hasn't been on Survivor, how close this world is, like how we're having this conversation.

[01:07:57] And I didn't even have to be out in Fiji for 26 days, um, maybe get it or, you know, one day or three days, maybe depending on how things go. Right. So it's, um, no, this is amazing. And I'm glad I don't, I'm, I'm going to let you off the hook with the book title. I'll give you a title. I'm going to go back to my little soundboard, which I figured out how to use. And the title is girl. We're just going to go with that.

[01:08:23] So anyway, Carolyn, any like closing words for the pod, pod friends, listeners, or for people who are just following your journey. Just don't give up. Like it can be hard. And I want people to know, like, cause as I've opened up about like just struggles that I've gone through, um, and still going through, it's like, there'll be like, but Carolyn, you

[01:08:50] have this show that's coming up or you were, you were on Survivor. What do you mean all this bad stuff has happened or, but it doesn't mean that I'm like, um, resistant to struggle or that I still don't have days where I'm like, oh my gosh. But it, so it's like, just don't, don't give up. Like there, there is that light at the end of the tunnel. Cause I have had days where I'm like, oh, where I get in my head or I'm just like, but

[01:09:17] I I'm so resilient and I'm just, I'm really proud of myself. So I would just say like, don't give up. Be proud of you. Thank you so much, Carolyn, for that conversation as part of pod friends. Like I loved talking with you. I loved connecting. I love that there's even more over on the Patreon, patreon.com slash RGP on the free tier. And again, big shout out to the team behind the scenes. Uh, Sam Moore for helping me, uh, get things booked with Carolyn, Scott St. Pierre, Jess

[01:09:47] Sterling, Derek Stosinski, Rob Sesternino, and just the entire team behind the scenes. Thank you so much for making this possible, for giving me this space. And I am so thrilled for the upcoming episodes. And just to give you a little bit of a preview, since you made it this far, we've episodes coming up with the one and only Josh Wiggler with Sharon Tharp, entertainment journalist, and even, even more, which I'm sure I'll announce, uh, in the coming weeks. But thank you so much, everyone for being part of this.

[01:10:16] And thank you as always for being a pod friend.