Purple Pants Podcast | Strategic Blindsides & Emotional Revelations

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[00:00:37] Purple Pants. It's a Purple Pants. It's I serve as your humble and oh so gracious host, Bryce Isaiah.

[00:01:03] And I thank you so much for tuning in to this week's recap. If you could be so kind to ensure you are subscribed to the Purple Pants podcast. And as always with your Survivor News content, you can watch this audio podcast on video. Head over to the Bryce Isaiah YouTube channel. Click subscribe. Give this video a thumbs up and let us know in the comments what you think about this week's episode.

[00:01:29] A move was had on Survivor Season 48 Episode 11. Is it a big enough move to change the outcome of this season? We've got some players playing and we've got the strong alliance still standing strong. We're super excited to be joined by Survivor Season 48. James Jones, Wendell Holland, Jack Atkins and myself. Dive into all things Episode 11 of Survivor Season 48.

[00:01:58] Let's get into this week's Survivor News.

[00:02:28] and we are back covering your survivor news of survivor season 48 episode 12 i think we have a lot to get into so let's welcome back to the podcast the winner of ghost island mr wendell holland how are you doing today i'm good how you doing perp i am great jackery

[00:02:50] from the circle season two what's popping with you dude chillin uh you know been a busy sort of busy work week and i always just look forward to hopping on with you guys and excited that we got a special guest today one of your favorite guests that can't be a survivor new

[00:03:14] season if we don't welcome the man the myth the survivor the real survivor know-it-all from survivor season 43 mr james jones jj what's going on with you hey man it's good to talk to everybody on the call bryce when jack it's been a long year um it's been a you know crazy year but i'm finally you know glad to get on and talk to you guys it's been a while it's been way too long

[00:03:40] and uh i'm going to correct that next season but i'm glad to be here today so i'm ready to get cracking about this fun season that i'm having fun watching that all of you out there are hating because i love this dominant gameplay and uh that's it well it's good uh it's been a minute but it's good to have you you know prime time penultimate episode of the season and you know you're in the prime time slot here hey i mean just making my time slot maybe i made us call this a james slot from

[00:04:09] now on just oh pencil me in here maybe okay just a pencil in the james slot okay we could do that uh well listen we were in boston last night i feel like our energy helped the boston celtics win a a game i don't know if they'll win the series but boston was absolutely epic there were so many surprise guests and stars and the energy in boston was truly amazing it makes me sad to think

[00:04:36] that there is only one stop left on the bwp tour we are heading to new york next week we've got a multitude yes a multitude of events for you to attend we have a real talk on a i'm about to say april may 20th we also have our karaoke party on april 20th and all things are leading to the road of the finale on april i don't know why i keep saying april i don't want the season to end on may 21st

[00:05:06] tickets are available uh at brysonwin.com boston was a legend a star we had so many people in the building so many boston undergrounds was there the game seeing the people play was truly amazing how was boston for you wendy z i had a great time uh it was mad fun uh boston's always great great energy

[00:05:28] and yeah it was a great evening i enjoyed it i was jealous i i i i've i've i've missed the tour this year and seeing all the fun tour stops i'm i was i was jealous um looking and that's it you know just jealous looks fun same here but well price can you pull that new york flyer back up real quick i see a couple familiar faces on the new york flyer

[00:05:59] is that the baby boy i mean front and center call me tyrese halliburton i'm gonna be pulling up to new york so you just step right in front of rachel wow yeah that's great you guys are too hey i appreciate being on the austin flyer you don't have to put me front and center you know i appreciate it but is that what's your text message right jack which one the one where you said i'm coming to new york

[00:06:26] put me in front of rachel that's not what it said that's not what it said let's clear that up i've had enough beef this season i don't need beefs that aren't even true uh no i said i'm coming to new york hell tricky to put me on the fire but i'm happy wherever on the fire you can put me in the back next to dan from squid gate um but i mean good i just love seeing my face amongst some legends

[00:06:51] uh and very excited to come to new york because like james i've missed out on a lot of this tour so i'm very excited but james aren't you coming too oh yeah i'm in the building new york i'm coming up there it's about to be fun last year was kind of crazy um i plan to recreate well maybe not but you know everybody if you don't have a ticket get a ticket they're probably close to being sold out so i wouldn't play around so that's just my advice and uh i'll see you there and tell tricky put james

[00:07:20] on the on the flyer okay we might have to put james in front of jack that's fine i don't want that smoke see no i will take my early merge boot self and just you know i'm good ain't nothing wrong with early merge boot i do want to know uh james jones we saw knowledge is power last episode and i feel like the last time we saw knowledge is power was your season how did that feel seeing the return of

[00:07:49] the knowledge is power wasn't that like with eva when it's like that was that eva getting that again or she decided not to play for it or something like that which was very smart i mean i feel like it's a great advantage and i feel like they won it in the game because eva's idol was so public but at the same time it's kind of do it like you did to me put it in the water well like put the note in the water well if you want someone else to get it just do it like that like this whole yeah so i mean it

[00:08:17] was good to see i think it would have been interesting if it came up and worked but i still am cursed it's still cursed clearly i feel like justice for tsunami i don't know what was the idol that sue had to get last season and it fell down and oh the red one yeah i feel like that's how you should encompass encapsulate a knowledge is power oh i mean i feel like it's one

[00:08:45] of those things where you i feel like production wants it in the game to you know but that's the case just put it in the game make sure someone gets it and you know let the drama or you know ensue afterwards but i think it's still a solid advantage if you get it secretly and no one knows you have it and it's interesting as it worked yet but when it does it's going to pop but it does work though when someone stills an idol and it gets voted off the next week it's going to pop

[00:09:14] so james before we get into the to the episode i mean you always come in with some with takes some are bangers some are not but can you set the stage on your thoughts on this season for us before we dive into this episode specifically because you said you said up top that you maybe were liking the season more than others so just give me the give me the james jones uh take on the season so far

[00:09:39] i mean i i'm enjoying the season i'm enjoying looking at the gameplay as far as from the top down and just how you kind of those big alliances kind of work i wish we got a little bit more of kind of the inside relationships within that kind of mega alliance but for me it was good the first half watching vula just die right and then you know they died a very slow death and then you get to the

[00:10:03] merge and the game starts very quickly and you have to identify and i think identify where you're at and when you need to make a move and kind of your place and jeff said the game moves fast but i think what happened this season is that you know players got together and they saw other seasons and they said we're not going to be the players that take each other out before we get to the end and you know may the

[00:10:29] best person win i know a lot of people kind of are rooting for oh people should have made a big move there were opportunities you know kyle made a big move he used his idol to get out of trouble and he may win the game i mean mitch chrissy had a big chance to make a big move but they wanted the target say because she was so powerful so i mean you only get a certain amount of times to take shots and sometimes they're just it's too late after you miss that shot you know so i think uh for me the

[00:10:57] season has been good do i think there could be more you know more more uh surprises in lex angst but i don't mind up a gonging every now and then i mean it's rewarding good players for good play and we'll see what happens at the end because i think this final episode may be one of the best final episodes of new era because we don't know who's going to win everybody has a compelling choice and when's the last time you went into the final episode saying like five of the five people have a really good

[00:11:24] chance and you wouldn't be surprised to win an episode uh devil's advocate just going based off of twitter reddit and x do five of the five have a good chance to win did you see my season of who won well but okay okay yeah who has no no no that's not what that's not what i was saying though so if we look at

[00:11:54] the final five and i ask the same question like i'd say four okay are you ruling out mitch are you afraid to say mitch doesn't have a chance to win jack no no comment okay and that's not personal on mitch but just the way we've seen things shake out is like who's who's mitch gonna be i mean i don't think mitch is going to win but what blood does mitch have on his hands well what blood does camilla have

[00:12:19] on her hands oh she has a lot of blood in her hand i feel like i feel like that's the unspoken thing is when people get back to pondy they're gonna be like that camilla like she's with us but how does she get here you know like because the whole game they're thinking oh she's with me she's at the bottom she's oh no she's making moves oh no she knows everything going on oh no she let on a lot

[00:12:45] more than what people thought at the same time maryann played hey camilla's my winner pick so you know i yeah i don't think camilla's necessarily had a lot of blood on her hands she's been scheming in a lot of ways but she's not um i don't i don't expect anyone on the jury to be very bitter towards camilla especially the given the fact that they might be bitter towards joe and eva that could actually i

[00:13:09] think is why i feel more confident in kyle or camilla potentially win it so i just are they more bitter towards kyle or camilla like going in like what's the bitter i i don't think i'm kind of a on this right i definitely think again from date like we've never seen a protest pre the time that you can talk as a jury member than a david with david standing up protesting the mary right like

[00:13:36] i feel like we've seen in chrissy's exit interviews her saying that like sure the strong and integrity lions wants to play how they want to play but i want to play a game that i want to play i feel like star being blindsided i feel like there are in my opinion the interesting part will be the jury i think that that is where we're going to see the like hoorah because i think that although you're playing a great

[00:14:04] game and getting to the end of survivor i think that a blunder is the jury and how they're getting there so i just i just think that yeah i might be with you jackery a little bit where it's like the jury might i mean the jury obviously has the final say but i think the jury is really going to have the final say yeah but i hear you james i mean i do think it's gonna it should be an exciting finale because

[00:14:28] i do think four of the five have a have a shot to win and a lot of these things that have been building up are going to finally come to a head and i'm excited to see what happens and i think there's a lot to unpack as we approach uh i think especially like you said right i think the jury this season um the jury themselves but also how the players that are still in the game are thinking about the jury is kind of the main factor right now in all the decisions that are being made more so than you know any

[00:14:56] any normal season um and i think that's where the complexity of kyle's game and his decisions has been really fascinating to me and that's just kind of what i've been thinking about like since i mean for the last few episodes but especially after last night like the way that he's looking at the game i think is very very nuanced and that's what i was excited to unpack yeah yeah but i mean i also do just want to dive into your brain a little bit more because you keep saying the four out of the

[00:15:24] five and you know this is a mitch stan podcast here we stand the baby boy mitch and so what are you actually saying are you saying that he did not make moves that he should have made i didn't want to i don't want to get in i think no i am just curious because i feel like in the episode mitch when he was talking to when he was rocking shaheem on the hammock uh he was saying like we said that we would get to

[00:15:52] six and then we could play our own game and so i thought that that was interesting tap in james jones because i also who is the we what alliance was mitch a part of that's a good gameplay like from our viewpoint mitch has always been a number and not really a contributing alliance member so when you say we get the sixth the question is what was your plan and who are your people right because when you see survivor you kind of are planning for the like who are your people who are you making a

[00:16:21] move with and what we see is especially it's too late to start the move early shaheem pointed this out this year when he point plant the seeds for david you can't just pop up and say i want to make a move those seeds have to be kind of cultivated so that that move can be can be done and i'm pretty sure they didn't show us some you know kyle planting seeds about uh shaheem some camilla planting seeds about

[00:16:50] shaheem throughout the year and i think those are the things that when you that you do make that move it does make it more palatable when you actually have done that and you've had some equity throughout the game great but you would agree that that mitch hasn't done a ton of that at least from what we've seen and then like i think the we is he i think mitch's biggest flaw is that he overestimated his

[00:17:14] position in this alliance and it's it's not as um he's not as high in the totem pole as i think uh it is at one point and that's really my question right because i feel like if we're talking on honesty and integrity i feel like mitch is the epitome of that right like mitch is like we said he said it when he again was rocking shaheem he said we all at one point said this will be our final six and we

[00:17:40] agreed that once we get to final six we could do however it shakes out and so i feel like that's mitch honoring hey we'll get to the final six but i also feel like in that final six there's a hierarchy and it's like i guess i mean the final six or some people some people are happy to play to get far

[00:18:06] if you're playing to get to the final six what's your four within the six and what's your three inside the two like i mean you get four and that's all you really need kind of sort of but you kind of want a three but you have to think inside your alliance who are my people within my group so clearly joe eva kyle and camilla knew they had a group inside a group you know and the other people thought that they had a group inside the group and that's just good survivor play where it's kind of like

[00:18:32] shaheem's like joe's my number one i was joe number one eva's his number one you gotta figure that part out my god and i love shaheem to death you know you know you kind of have to figure out who that person is and if you don't have that person look around and say wait it's kind of you know me and mitch versus kyle camilla and joe eva well i actually think that's why this season has been so stagnant in a sense is that everybody in this alliance seems to feel like they're that they

[00:18:59] have their core and that they all have some paths to the end and that sticking with this group is their best move um which for a lot of people it is because i think it's very hard to decipher and that's why again i i talked i bring back the jury because the way that people are interpreting the jury is is going to really break like break down who's going to have the best shot to win the game joe and eva might think that the jury's going to love them but kyle and camilla might think jury's not going to like joe and eva and so they have a better chance so i think that's why um and then clearly mitch and

[00:19:28] maybe we didn't see a lot of it thought he was entitled with this group than he really was but he maybe thought that kyle and camilla would be his final three and he'd have a route um so that's why i feel like it kind of reminds me like the reba four they all thought they had a good shot at it and now with a four like you said there's a little bit more room to maneuver and to get far and to make the final four final three people lead your case um it seems like everyone in the six almost kind of

[00:19:52] thought that the six they would have avenues out of wendell what do you think about all that oh i think um i i kind of i worry for our buddy mitch this is a mitch stand podcast but again like i see um i see some other people that are making real plays for this end game um but i'm also

[00:20:19] i feel like and i don't want to read too far into the um like the next time on survivor stuff but i thought i saw camilla saying something to the effect of like her best shot to win is not sitting next to kyle did i hear something like that and in that case then i start thinking this way what if joe goes out next somehow some way then joe's out of it kyle's the biggest threat they don't

[00:20:46] they don't want kyle in and then you get a final three with eva camilla and and mitch so you know i i um i think that's the scenario where it's like all right i'd love the scenario when we see joe camilla and kyle at the end because i think that's going to be a brawl i think it's going to be i think everyone's going to have these these cases to be made but um yeah i as far as the season is

[00:21:14] concerned we've watched this kind of predictable season but now again with this strong five or however right but this strong amount of people strong six strong six yeah with a strong six it's like man we really we really can't predict the winner although like twitter is saying it's like kyle or joe and that's what i'm thinking like there's there's a world where a lot of these people make moves

[00:21:38] the street from austin was saying is eva last night though i i think you heard shaheen say it i don't know how much credit eva is getting for her game on the island versus what people are seeing not a lot i don't think people are looking at eva as a player that really has been driving anything as opposed to

[00:22:00] a player that was able to here's i say this all the time choosing a good alliance person is literally the the hardest part of the game but if you do you can see between a kyle and camilla uh even and joe how much power you can have if you decide to stay honest choose information and you have those four people you're thinking the same length and they're all confident it's kind of like it's kind of a tough

[00:22:28] thing to beat when there's so little people in so little time yeah what do you think the jury is more mad at joe or eva probably joe but in the same vein but respect joe more okay but but is is there not a case for eva that like her game this whole season has been i think the case is slim i think it's possible what i really think is going to happen i'll call my shot a little bit here okay

[00:22:56] is i think kyle and camilla both of their angle is that eva and joe are not only going to be kind of looked at unfavorably by the jury but also i think you would want to go to the end with both of them because they can split votes um whereas if kyle and camilla go to the end together against just a joe or just eva they might split votes against that singular other person who would then

[00:23:20] have their number one on the jury talking them up so i think kyle and camilla are probably at and we've seen them sort of hint at it but kind of at the mutual agreement that maybe they go make fire against each other and the the winner is going to be set up pretty nicely against potentially a joe and an eva or or a mitch uh and then the loser out of like you know respecting the other person beat them in fire is going to go to the jury and and unload all of this information

[00:23:49] about the game that they played the secret alliance that they had all the moves that they made and set that person up for a victory that's kind of my prediction on what's going to happen i think what from what we've seen i feel more likely that it's going to be kyle that emerges victorious but i also think we've seen a lot of camilla so there's also a very good chance you know camilla could could win fire and have the same you know have a very similar case um and i think that's sort of the dilemma they've been going through but i think basically all the decisions when you analyze

[00:24:19] them it boils down to you kyle and sort of camilla's calculus of how's the jury going to view joe and eva because if you think that you can beat them in this way then everything they've done makes a ton of sense but if you don't think you can beat them and you they feel like they do have to make a move and take them out then their gameplay so far actually looks a lot worse but i'm in the mindset that they've done this analysis they feel like one of them can beat joe and eva and then this is the

[00:24:45] best way to do it and i think that it's really smart so the question i have is in kyle and camilla's mind do they look at joe as a threat even maybe eva maybe mitch right but joe they were on the beach with joe outsmarted joe you got joe to vote out shaheem when he's voting with mitch right you know like so like literally they have two bona fide moves remember when d at final tribal council was like yeah

[00:25:12] we made this move she said no austin i did this right so when you have that knowledge over and you break that out and you're able to display that that shows a mastery understanding what's happening in the game and understanding the flow and what's happening on the beach as opposed to i have the power people going to do what i say because i'm immune or i have the numbers it's a different level

[00:25:38] of nuance that i think is more palatable to especially a new age jury as opposed to like joe where i think would be a runaway favorite like jt level against steven back in the day i think it's the perfect yes in the new era where as a jt would have won back then i think fishback would have won in a new era and i think that's what we're going to come down to where you have a jt versus a fishback

[00:26:06] type of how do you respect one's game exactly i think that's a great like summation because you're agreeing wait jake you're agreeing with james yeah of course of course i i think you know going back to what i said i think that they've come to this conclusion that either a they can beat joe and eva especially if those are two are at the end together also you know the factor of if you do blindside joe or eva then their bitterness might actually make it harder for you to win so if they're

[00:26:34] if they're committed to this one of us goes and beats joe or eva um then what james said is correct it's like we now need to make them they're in their case look as bad as possible and how do you do that you work with them but you make moves on the side or manipulate joe so that when he's at final travel council we all know joe's gonna be like i played honorably in integrity and i only made a move if someone was coming after me whatever cal can then be like oh well when you voted out david

[00:27:01] when you voted out shaheen they were actually loyalty but i put the seed planted the seeds and manipulated them you so that you would vote them out so you weren't being like you were being uh you were being on honorable in your mind but it's because you were confused and you didn't know what was going on and so that as a jury member i would be like that that's because the jury members probably gonna be jury's probably gonna be bitter towards joe in that like david's gonna be bitter towards joe and if david's like oh kyle manipulated him into doing that like that's

[00:27:29] pretty impressive um but then also it might it might mend david's heart to be like well kyle manipulated you so like i think that's almost playing with fire a little bit that is a very good point that's a very good point but you know then they might kind of turn on kyle but my question is again i i'm with you jack of the mindset that i i camilla camilla and kyle are very smart and i think that the edit is not showing us these conversations that they're having but i really

[00:27:59] feel like they see the read on the jury because even in last night's episode when i was in boston talking to a lot of people i'm like i'm confused as to why they're trying to pitch for shaheen to go because don't you want joe or eva and the consensus that i got is that like they've read the room they want to go to the end with joe and eva like that's who you want to go but then my question is if you're a camilla because and i only am saying camilla because i feel like we talk about

[00:28:28] kyle so much because he has been he's had more agency he has more connections but i'm rooting for kyle i'm rooting for camilla but like for camilla do you think she's ever going to turn to kyle or look at kyle and be like i need to get rid of him to win my game because i feel like that's i'm not hearing enough people debate about what's miller's end game is but i think she has come to

[00:28:54] the conclusion that both strategically and probably also just in terms of her agency in the game the best time to do that's just going to be at the final four and try to take him out on fire i think that's her best move i think she's accepted and bryce i think you made a really good point with what you said at the start of that bit i think what partly why this season's been so boring is i think a lot of these players have done their analysis have a really good understanding of the dynamics and

[00:29:19] probably five votes ago we're like this is my ideal end game and they've all kind of came to that conclusion and there wasn't a lot of there wasn't really a state of flux it was just the bottom players scramming to try to stay in but i don't really think any of the dilemmas that they ever really showed us were that legitimate and i feel like i probably talked about five episodes ago this is what we have to do and that's going to be that's the driving narrative of the season so it's hard to be like and if joe and eva and shaheen and mitch are kind of lining up with that then there's not really

[00:29:48] much intrigue but it's really good gameplay from kyle and camilla so i have a question window right we talk about ghost island we talk about you dom and laurel and kyle and camilla right them getting to the end say you were say you're camilla and dom is kyle and you're on this season and it's a joe and eva um

[00:30:12] are you willing to backstab kyle to get to the end or like what would you do in this predicament wait say who is who you are camilla uh dom is kyle and then there's a joe and eva in the mix so y'all y'all on 48 yeah but y'all have the relationship that you and dom have right like are you willing

[00:30:37] to make that move for the million dollars or are you like how is this going to play out if we're at the stage we are and i'm camilla mm-hmm you you gotta you gotta make the move for a million dollars you you you're at a position you're in camilla's shoes um first of all kyle owned kyle kyle will own

[00:31:07] that last right so you're kyle that's kyle's move he he looks stronger than you so you do want to i don't know you're you're kind of confusing me by putting the wendell and dom in this scenario because there's parallels though well i know i'm just saying like how i'm just saying like am i just being camilla or is it like you put oh because like i would so i mean it's bridesma's question but i was

[00:31:35] saying jack fix it up for me jack fix the question up for me so you're not wendell in this instance you're camilla and i mean i guess he's asking you a camilla yeah because it's it's a semi-similar situation where it's like okay you're in this duo you might have to stab them in the back if you want a chance to win but you also there's there might be repercussions of doing that so if you're camilla

[00:32:00] in this situation and i'll add to bryce's question is are you willing to to stab kyle on the back and if so given the context of the season my question is when's the right time to do that i mean i think i have my answer but i think it's a very valid thing to discuss i think yeah i like i like your answer where it's like all right i'm gonna have to get you in fire um in my case in my okay now i

[00:32:26] can compare it to go silent dom and i looked at each other like if we take each other out too early the other one of us we're sitting ducks they're gonna get us so we will go as far as we can together protecting each other against everybody and very fortunately we had this uh peripheral alliance with like you know well laurel was right with us but we had donathan and even you know everyone was kind

[00:32:51] of cool with us and we need four huh we need four like four you only need four if you have four players with relationships you have so much information and yeah but and and that's and then we had like the people on the outskirts are kind of like talking to other people and and the information gets to us anyway so in this in this case you got joe and eva you had shaheen you got mitch uh you got kyle and

[00:33:18] camilla and you don't you yeah it's it's so it's like i got a better question i gotta answer for you bryce before you ask this question i gotta answer so season 48 get rid of kyle and camilla it's dom and wendell okay i said i think oh and there's a joe and eva

[00:33:45] and like they don't know you and dom are working together but y'all had a relationship that y'all had right basically kyle and camilla's though well right but like we gotta make you gotta make him understand so it's that it's dom and wendell out there but instead of ghost island right you have this other power dominant yeah and they don't know that you guys are working and so i guess my question to you is like in the relationship that you have with dom as we're going into this final episode

[00:34:12] are you like a jack and it's like let me leave it up the fire or are you like let me see what i can do with a mitch no i'm not okay so you got a mitch my point to that because i think it's a very valid question bryce but to me i think camilla is

[00:34:36] both willing and ready to make a move but at five it's like how does that move ever really happen like um i can tell you well i think a mitch would be open but i don't think joe and eva would vote out kyle i mean do we why not because they in their mind they've been locked in with kyle from the job who has all the information did you see the edit of this episode camilla honestly

[00:35:00] we did see that in this episode joe and eva went with what kyle said to do and yeah but joe but joe joe was processing i hear where james is going right now because information is information is king camilla has all of it even back to the flip on Thomas so here's the situation the question is like is no one's taking mitch to the end right we don't disagree well okay i i see

[00:35:27] where you're going and i want you to finish but my other part of this thing was even if camilla makes a move on kyle this round i think camilla would be next i think david and uh i'm sorry i think joe and eva i think joe and eva would then take mitch to the end and try to take camilla out at four so only one person can take someone to the end right so if joe wins he takes eva right even when she takes joe is that what we're saying right so then what are camilla's paths to the end outside

[00:35:54] of fire the only one make fire against mitch or mitch wins and takes her so like that's kind of or like so either way her path is kind of finite no matter who is there meaning if if kyle goes she depends on mitch if mitch goes she depends on kyle you know like so no this is a this is a valid point right you're right because if camilla went balls to the walls to make a move at five really

[00:36:22] put a stamp on her resume of i took out kyle then she still probably has to make fire at four but she's gonna probably have to know but if she takes out joe i think everybody thinks it's an end wait but this is completely different conversation right you just you just moved the variables yeah oh very true my bad i apologize for that i just got thinking that's also an interesting thought like that's also a very interesting um circumstance but i was just to bryce's question of like the

[00:36:50] camilla and kyle thing i know you i think you guys changed my mind a little bit of well i think it's gonna be really difficult to do and probably not worth the risk but she could make a big swing at kyle at five and then make fire against whoever at four and then she's top dog she doesn't because if she beats kyle on fire well emblematically eating kyle on fire fire still sort of makes her the top she sort of absorbs kyle's powers but maybe it's almost like do people does the jury value the move

[00:37:18] at five against kyle like an actual strategic move more or do they value like these the spectacle of taking him out and fire i think it's both would be symbolic right like i think that like i think one i think they're both equal but in this whole conversation it made me think of because again i'm still on my baby boy mitch and it's like what can mitch do right even though all even though y'all

[00:37:42] say he can't win right that's not what i'm saying but if if and this goes back to my question that i was asking you maybe four episodes again jack like if you know maybe you can't win is there any merit of doing what you can do to get as far as you can right and so i feel like if i'm mitch and the big move that mitch wants to make i feel like he needs to get and this is just me speaking from a mitch perspective

[00:38:11] you need to get rid of a kyle or camilla if you can so doubt in joe's mind and sway that and get yourself into a fire making position i think that that is the best thing given the pieces of the puzzle that mitch can do agree i mean i guess mitch's ideal end is probably with joe and eva and hope that the jury's bitter enough that they might vote for him i don't think that's gonna happen and i that's the path why not why not why not i think if the jury was that bitter that they won't vote for

[00:38:40] joe then i think they would vote for eva wait but again a different part you said you don't want no beefs it feels like you are like who am i beefing with because i feel like mitch has a story i feel like with camilla and kyle or when camilla and shaheen or shaheen all of them were talking they were like they don't want to sit at the end with mitch but my other thing is well that was a while

[00:39:03] back and this isn't this episode to mitch because i think i think 99 of the time look if mitch i'm hoping mitch wins i love mitch but realistically 99 of the time he's not going to and he probably would agree with this analysis of his position and it's not even to say that and this is a conversation i had with mitch a few episodes ago of like he's you know a lot of ways wants to make a move but the

[00:39:27] circumstances in a lot of ways weren't like conducive to that um but you also talk about this circumstance for mitch to get to the end with this group and maybe he wins with that group but i'm also like at final five how does mitch ever go about getting joe and eva to flip on kyle that's not gonna happen like mitch doesn't even have their information about their duo to even sow any seeds like it's it's um i i i love mitch and i i want him to to succeed if he won i'd be

[00:39:55] thrilled but i just realistically doesn't seem like that's gonna happen i don't feel like this is any sort of beef because i think mitch would agree with these points it's not that he's not trying to make a move it's just the circumstances aren't allowing him up the opportunities to do so so let's talk about the circumstances let's just pin that right there and go back to the great sandra when sandra when she won her season here's what sometimes happens you have a power alliance right and you have people

[00:40:22] at the bottom you have someone on the bottom that's saying we need to do this and people at the bottom aren't listening to that person and people are top of control in the game so mitch had one opportunity to make a move the stable right but outside of that and it's the power structure that you just fall into like you literally get to the beach and after that double split you have this big alliance right of the strong people right so from a tactile standpoint sometimes you have to say you know

[00:40:51] we didn't have the opportunity to actually do that outside that one move where he actually had actual power sandra didn't have power but she was there telling them the whole time xyz and that was rewarded what we haven't seen with this season has been those intricate those intimate conversations that we used to get to understand a little bit more about the relationships and what's happening to

[00:41:17] cause people to do certain things like we're getting the the inciting incident ooh shayeen as an idol like if you're joe okay we're going to the final four what does that matter like so you're not getting some of these things that are kind of making these decisions happen and i think that is the avenue which a camilla or a mitch where let's say mitch wins the last two immunities it was the mood immunity

[00:41:42] vocile joe was immunity again takes camilla to fire even takes out kyle and five like there's a there's a path to the end chris won got back in the game and started making stuff happen mitch was a big physical component in the in the in the pre-merge right you know a lot of his pre-mergers are on the jury they don't have any ill will to him he just didn't connect with them so i think you know and piling around with the bottom you're allowed to build those

[00:42:09] sam talked about this when you're at the bottom you're allowed to build relationships that you can't build when you're on the top it's kind of like can you be friends with your boss like when you see your boss in the club are you going to say yo let's go take a shot or when you see your co-worker in the club are you going to say let's go take a shot right so how do you build those authentic relationships we're at the bottom quote unquote you can build those relationships you you can know things like gaber knew about everybody's family at final tribal council that mitch may have

[00:42:37] taken stock in that maybe a joe and eva maybe did not you know and that's kind of where i see a possibility for a mitch win especially if joe and eva feel like he's a goat to kind of take to the end we're going to put him in fire anyway i think you make a lot of valid points about that position in general um well i think some of these key things haven't applied to mitch's game this season which is

[00:43:07] my cause for concern um obviously i mean james you always for better for worse you always keep the mindset of like getting the end pitching your story like anyone can win obviously on your season like gabler winning i would probably feel the same i'd be like if gabler won like anything's possible but i do think statistically like just thinking about how this will shake out 99 of the time i think it's really hard for mitch to win and i think i love that you brought up the sandra example

[00:43:33] but i think the key difference between that and i also think of like a jaco cane 45 is sandra and jake were opinionated and um throwing out ideas that they weren't getting much traction but people knew that they were trying to make moves and throwing out ideas that at the time didn't seem like the right move but you look back and be like you know jake and sandra like had some real game chops like we

[00:43:58] probably should have gone with what they said with mitchy i think his fatal flaw was just falling too much in line with this group which i don't really blame him for because this group i think brought him in a lot better and you look at and like he was with kyle and camilla in the pre-merge but then kyle and camilla linked up with joe and shaheen and then kind of created their own thing and that's why mitch was kind of i think left on the outs and he didn't really bear witness to that bond blossoming and then

[00:44:24] mitch had like no relationship with the other people in the bottom like say or like mary or star like and not to say you know if mitch maybe mitch could have worked more on developing those relationships and made a move but it just didn't seem like those clicked and so i understand why mitch kind of stuck with this group and maybe talked himself into being more optimistic about his standing with them than he was but we never really saw mitch be like we need to take joe out

[00:44:50] or we need to take kyle and camilla out and so at that point then you lose that sort of sandra jake element and even a jake i mean got no votes against d and austin because jake's was was it had good strategic chops but again if you don't make those things happen it's sort of hard to plead that case um i know i rambled a little bit there but that's kind of how i feel about mitch i mean and i having talked to mitch i know he was like looking for opportunities to move and shake more than he was

[00:45:17] able to i just don't think the circumstances lined up for him where he ever had like a good number one like the people he was close with at the merge all kind of went out against his will and then you're sort of left with like okay all these other people have really close relationships like how do i fit in and that's a really hard position to be in to ever go with um through not really through any fault of mitch's own like people were together in the pre-merge more than they were with him that

[00:45:42] were like really tight and running the game guys and that's where you talk about the episode wow wow i thought we were calling all the audible like i didn't know we were even going to that well i mean i feel like this was a part of the episode yeah the biggest thing was kyle's kind of dilemma in his stance on joe and eva the biggest thing i think was the kyle and camilla move

[00:46:08] of the deception of shaheen to joe and i want to talk about this because yeah i do too continue where did this resonate resonate with where did it resonate from and wait what where did this move originate from bang right so part one of the question and then part two of the

[00:46:36] question is does this move in my opinion kind of signifies jack what we've been saying that kyle and camilla have to have a read on this jury so that they want to dismantle this and get rid of a shaheen because one would think well if joe won immunity then we gotta we got the numbers to do it

[00:46:59] eva so part one where did this originate from the move of like the idol the whole like i think that this was i don't think they fear joe and eva like i think it's kind of like i don't fear joe and eva and i don't fear mitch it relates to everything we just discussed sorry yeah it's almost like they're viewing i don't know what i don't know how to describe this if you are in a machine and

[00:47:27] you're controlling the machine but it's like you're in this like in this like it's like a like a transformer right you got these two people that are like the minds behind these other two people that are the machine making things happen and these these minds are just like yo we about to make a move and our machine is gonna make it happen and from my perspective it's interesting that

[00:47:56] the machine doesn't know what's going on you know what i'm saying and so come come uh final tribal and you got a bunch of people on the jury that don't know what's going on they may or may not see things but come final tribal i think there there's a potential for a lot of mic drop moments and a lot of like epiphany moments and a lot of like gotcha moments so once once the the mind behind this machine

[00:48:23] starts telling the machine what they've had this machine doing this whole time so exactly yeah i think it's uh and i almost venture to say it might be interesting if you have a joe sitting at the end and then you start getting these mic drops from uh kyle or camilla i will i think that might fluster joe a little bit and i'm interested to see how he responds to that definitely can can we talk about the moment in

[00:48:51] the episode that whoa whoa i don't even know what like i don't even know what's happening right now

[00:49:00] that's the britches the britches busting out of they scenes the moment that got the britches wet for me this episode was when joe was in a fluster okay joe didn't know if he was coming or going he didn't know who planted the seed and when whoa whoa whoa wait why do you even know what that means james like that's that's a side coming

[00:49:29] he said coming and going and planting the seed joe didn't know what was happening and when joe went to camilla and was like did kyle mention anything to you and camilla was like yeah he told me he's i

[00:49:45] i said oh like how well have we ever seen an alliance or a duo this strong at the end like the fact that they still don't know that they are one and two can i tag in whoa oh my bad i've been watching wwe highlights but i think

[00:50:13] i think this is the thing where they're taking like joe is a very straightforward player right but also i don't know if joe is like a survivor strategist to the high level of strategy and i made up the word in the sense of he's a person that has a lot of power and what i think people may hold against him is that you have you're immune and if i'm saying i'm shaheem i think that's the one thing

[00:50:40] jurors do take and we're playing together and something comes up like you're afraid to bring it to me for somebody else is a scare ish type gameplay especially when you've been playing a very dominating game you had the necklace on it's time for you to kind of assert your will and your dominance and if if shaheem is your guy which i don't know where he was in the pecking order like

[00:51:06] kyle i think somehow surpassed him but if someone comes up to me and says yo uh carla has x y and z right if carla is my person or cas is my person i'ma somehow subtly talk to that person i'm not going to kind of his beat around the bitch with shaheem was sitting down like hey so what's going on try

[00:51:29] to get to the bottom of it that's not direct enough you have to be subtle but that was like literally too subtle to someone who didn't even know that you especially when you've been paranoid during votes and now you're paranoid with with the uh with the mutiny necklace no you had him you know camilla did but it's just kind of just like you're this paranoid person and you're coming to your ally and if he's your ally be like hey you know like did you find anything if so it's cool but i mean we're

[00:51:59] going to the final four and then you just say i don't got anything then you're like okay now kyle and camilla are on your radar but if you don't go to shaheem with that shaheem is going to sit back hear all this stuff and say you're not playing survivor why are you getting my million dollars and you heard it today when shaheem was talking to bsa he wasn't worried about eva and he wasn't worried about jeff so i think that's the one thing it kind of that hurts players where

[00:52:26] i don't think they realize is that you can go back and confirm information and when you don't confirm information with your allies it's hard for you to ask them to give you a million dollars when you didn't give them a heads up about getting out the game forget bitter jor and all this other stuff it's like no we're playing the game together i i mean i get it but you can do a better job of informing me what's going on especially if you want me to give you a million dollars that's jury management because you don't want your number one going to the jury we may have seen this recently and hearing

[00:52:54] all the other stuff you saying behind them and then now you think you got to do that final tribal and you don't we don't know that ever happened but it may happen recently that's why i thought the whole i guess we call our preamble the first half hour of this episode was so important because it sets the stage for kyle and camille's decision making this episode in like the last several episodes um is that once you have formed this opinion of joe and eva that you do want to go

[00:53:23] to the end with them then this makes all these moves make a lot of sense but of course if you think that they need to take out joe and eva or that they want to take out joe and eva then this doesn't make any sense at all but i think that it does make sense um and this is one of the prime examples of them like kind of making a move where at final tribal council they could like drag down joe's game um shaheen who now who thought he was joe's number one now goes to the jury thinking that joe just like

[00:53:51] betrayed him for no reason and then if joe is like oh well they told me you had an idol then shaheen's gonna be like well i didn't so you're wrong so i'm gonna vote for them because they tricked you um it's kind of what i think shaheen would do on the jury similar to like a david or um other players uh and that's why it's so like brilliant from kyle and camilla i do think it was smart of them to bring in the idol factor because hopefully that would help joe not go to them and not go to shaheen i think that was a mistake though well so glad i think i thought the only mistake i

[00:54:20] thought i didn't think the idol thing was a mistake the mistake that i thought um they could have done slightly differently i actually think it makes more sense if they say that shaheen showed it to both of them at the same time because then not only can you corroborate each other's stories and be like oh well we were both at the you could have details that you figure out corroborate the story but also i was concerned that joe would believe kyle but not believe camilla and just be like oh kyle camilla's

[00:54:46] lying to you like she's trying to make a move and then kyle would either have to be like oh no no like camilla's definitely telling the truth like i trust camilla fully like or he'd have to be like oh you're right like maybe camilla is lying so i thought that that kind of gave camilla an out though if she needed to pull a move on kyle like i thought that that left the door open for camilla to be like that's what kyle told me i'm not like you know what i mean he did the moves still open

[00:55:13] but the story was that camilla that shaheen told camilla who told kyle so now camilla is the one that this hinges on kyle has the out because if shaheen says no that never happened kyle could be like well camilla told me that he did so camilla's lying the question is why do they believe it and why do they believe it is because who planted the seed that camilla and shaheen were a secret little duo like this has been percolating in the majority alliance but don't you think it makes more sense

[00:55:43] if they say shaheen showed both of us and they could kind of confirm well yeah no but then all but then that also would be then shaheen could be like they're lying and then but there's two against one whereas four verse two voting wise though i think this was the way you drip the information to him it's like you suddenly get it here and then he's like all right now let me let me triangulate this resource as opposed to two people kind of running up on you like yeah we saw that now it's like hey yo

[00:56:13] camilla said that he showed her the idol they're going for you bro and now he can do his research he can check what camilla got it he could check what shaheen try to strong arm him or whatever got it but i think this was a much smoother play than the two of them trying to go with the one two punch i really do and it worked well i think it was very strong regardless this was that was a very small

[00:56:39] nitpick that i think i mean it was excellent either way but i do stand by the fact that i think there was the biggest problem with this potential problem with this plan is that joe could think kyle's telling me the truth but camilla is lying to me and i'm he's not like uber close with camilla so i think that would be a like at that point it's like do i trust camilla or do i trust shaheen if kyle and camilla both come to you this is where the editors mess us up sometimes because we have not seen one really

[00:57:07] joe camilla conversation and i'm pretty sure there's been a joe camilla conversation yeah yeah it's like it's kind of like she is like she's literally voted with them every single time remember also joe and joe uh shaheen and um who was tom right who was the guy that was on the beach everybody loved him he was real sarcastic thomas right they were on that beach together right and

[00:57:36] they took camilla under their wing right like there is a lot of things that we didn't see where it's like if she wasn't talking to kyle who was she talking to which is a bump on the log i feel like camilla had was building those relationships with the shaheen and with the joe while she wasn't talking to kyle so all i meant to say was that in this the way they went about it and it obviously worked out so there's obviously probably more things at play than we know but at this this way joe could look at it like

[00:58:03] either camilla is lying or shaheen's lying he was very close with shaheen so i think there's a reason that he could be skeptical and then that puts kyle in a really awkward position because he does to vouch for camilla like overly like overly aggressively and be like no i trust camilla whereas if kyle and camilla are both like hey he pulled aside he wants to make a move he showed us the idol i think joe would immediately be like oh two of my people that i'm close with they're telling me this i trusted 100 but but here's where i i'm sorry i'm the last time we shut up for a little bit

[00:58:33] but no no it's like i feel like there's something we're missing right because in the day shaheen having a isn't it isn't really enough for joe and camilla to flip like i don't know what else is there but like that can't be the thing that makes them want to flip this is something that i thought a lot about that i wanted now i think that's a great segue to introduce um and i i'm very excited to

[00:58:58] to throw this at you guys i think there's an element from joe and eva maybe more so joe of a willful ignorance of we it maybe in the back of joe's mind he thinks it might benefit them to take out shaheen but joe's so honorable that i'm not going to spring that up oh but if if kyle and camilla

[00:59:21] give me a reason to i could be like accidentally tricked take out shaheen and i'm i don't know any better right because what's their alternative is to take out mitch like joe in the back was mine knows shaheen is probably more of a threat to win than mitch and so by just kind of going along with this plan it kind of gives joe an out and now i don't know if that out's gonna play with the jury but in joe's mind right now i think in the game it does give him an out and also it um i'm thinking

[00:59:51] about if say joe pushes back on this and just say joe is all seeing and knows that kyle and camilla are lying to him well now in joe's mind kyle camilla and mitch are working together so what's your counter move like then you'd have to play the idol then you'd have to like really go all in with shaheen and go three versus three maybe you go to rocks maybe you whatever so for joe it's like well if i just go along with this plan and it's shaheen then we take out shaheen now even i are still in we have an idol

[01:00:19] at five like we'll probably be okay we've just taken out a threat i don't even know if these are things that joe was consciously thinking of but i really think that he was sort of intentionally willfully ignorant and i think that was actually good for his game somewhat you know i do want to shoot joe some bail because we did hear him talk about how yo they could be lying to me this so like and i'm glad that the editors kept that in there like i'm very glad for that reason and um because

[01:00:47] he's not just he's not just a full buffoon that listens to everything but also this willful uh blindness argument you have is kind of smooth and that could also kind of jive well with a jury if they bring up this uh we use you to do this and this and get out your own ally maybe he comes back with the well check this out i wanted him out my whole thing is honor integrity so yeah you guys pitched it

[01:01:16] we were both aligned in that like i wanted him for this reason y'all wanted for this reason so yeah i needed him out anyway y'all handed y'all handed it to me the problem is i don't think joe would look at it from that angle but i totally agree with you i think he would be like i never turned on someone unless they turn on me kyle would be like well shaheen didn't turn on you i tricked you and then shaheen would be like damn joe you got tricked and then joe's gonna get flustered instead of exactly

[01:01:45] yeah no if you're fully i totally agree with you the other like wendell let's give i i i will say joker to say this he was number one and i didn't sit next to because i played that good of a game and if he comes at it like that and said hey everybody i'm it's like it's kind of like you have he has to come in and i think he's straightforward and he can come in very cocky and not cocky but confident and say hey he was the number one you saw me give her a hug on the on the mat i protected

[01:02:14] her this whole entire time you i was standing right here i had to win immunity y'all were coming at me and i won immunity oh did i play the most strategic game in the world no but did i have to oh man and the times didn't need to get voted out i mean i didn't get voted out now give me the million dollars if you don't but like don't final tribal is so so with communicating how you played your

[01:02:41] game how people viewed your game because people want to use this game as a bully game as a boston rob as a softer trust game i know about the trust trust how often they talk about trust and tribal council so now if you're gonna play that game joe needs to follow through and if he follows through i think he can beat almost anybody but i don't know if he has that follow through that's what i'm worried

[01:03:07] about for joe right because it's it's it's weird because it's like you're saying honor and integrity and we get it however it's like i'm watching boston rob like you know like you don't want people talking you don't want people moving and stand on that yeah i am worried that he'll get to the end and although i love hoboken mike i was gonna say when mike got to the end and mike didn't like mike kind of like

[01:03:33] gotta own it like and that's and i'm worried for joe because it's like and it's weird because it's like does he know like he has to know he has this power but also like joe's like i'm a good guy like i love everybody but also it's like we love good guys like but sometimes you got cracked the whip crack you gotta throw that punch you gotta throw that right and you gotta put it on the table you

[01:03:59] gotta pull it out put it on the table sometimes oh um i love the mike turner comparison i've seen people online talking about that it's a great comparison because joe has to own this game and i think you guys all hit it on like i don't i don't think he's gonna what hit it on the head like i don't i don't think he's gonna i don't think he's gonna be able to and we and this is kind of why i feel like we've seen glimpses lately of him

[01:04:26] not quite having a strategic acumen being a little bit flustered where the big get take away like the big div away in that sense for me was like last week when he was like basically like so can i write one of your guys's names down because mary's that was wild he doesn't he's not as dialed in as he needs to be to navigate how hard the jury's gonna be coming at him can i ask a question yeah uh everyone

[01:04:52] welcome to the survivor news integrity academy and you guys are all in school to be first officers i need your help because we are rolling out some training developments and i need to know if because you guys are going to be first officers out there in the world of you know you're in the academy you're cadets

[01:05:19] we're in the chapter of interrogation would we or should we use joe and shaheen's uh joe's method of interrogation with shaheen do you think that should be played in the survivor news school manual i think it was funny i do want to see the transcript because i feel like

[01:05:45] it was one of those things where if you're shaheen you have no of course you're gonna it's like it was it was so not comforting it's like hey what is going on it's like he talked to him like he was my dad like i get it shaheen is a grown man like i met shaheen he's almost like he's a super grown man it's like joe went over there and tried to sell him and chump we we know yeah listen joe let us know that

[01:06:14] he was biracial early in the season but baby joe was a black father he sat down on that bed and said hey i'm missing five dollars out of my wallet you got anything to do with it shaheen he's like what what i don't i don't i don't i don't got your father joe joe joe is like

[01:06:38] i'm gonna find out all right hey i'm gonna find out okay like i don't got your money it's his little sister that took the money well that's okay that's the thing i love this question bryce with the joe school of inter i don't actually mind the interrogation method of basically like you got something to tell me that was horrible that was no no you can't talk to a grown man like that yeah

[01:07:05] you can't talk to me like it's a grown man it could have been smoother but but the idea behind it i don't mind the problem is it went going in knowing that shaheen could be telling the truth or he could be lying and then when shaheen's like no i was like i think we're i thought we were good like i thought we're cool to then be like to be like oh now i know he's lying it's like that's how he would act too if he's telling the truth

[01:07:30] so um so the conclusion of it this is what joe did wendell last time i was at your house i left a hundred dollars i know you didn't i know you wouldn't have just took in a hundred dollars at the barbecue but if you did it's okay if you just sent me that cash at back like that's what joe basically did wendell's like why are you even talking to me like if i came to windows like yo

[01:07:58] man let's start your house i left this left my watch there my richard milley i i on the counter you know i mean i don't think you took it and all but you know i don't mind him at the barbecue right why are you coming to me wesley i don't mind him feeling it i know it was a little bit maybe condescending to shaheen but just the idea behind it of okay he might have an idol i don't want to put all my cards on the table let me feel it out putting all your cards

[01:08:25] on the table no because putting all the cards on the table would have been okay shaheen reacts in a way that he might react if he's telling the truth he might react if he's lying you don't really know so then because you don't know i if i were joe i'd probably be like look shaheen like i heard this news that this is what they told me is that true and then if it's true he probably owns up to it because he knows he's screwed and if he's like hell no that's not true then joe can be like okay

[01:08:52] well y'all go figure it out like someone's well joe was in a precarious spot and he just chose to accept the people that came and lied to him where you know and again i think the willful ignorance is fine because if say joe messed around and sat shaheen down next to kyle camilla was like all right what's going on that might that's that's what should i have that's the thing that's the thing

[01:09:17] i could bounce back on on joe so that's why that's why you gotta be willful at tribal council maybe or but like if i was shaheen kyle is this not gonna bounce back on joe could this could the way he did it and with shaheen oh it could yeah yeah it could with the jury but i think that's the thing i don't mind him just kind of um accepting kyle and camilla's lie as the truth and he's going

[01:09:43] but yeah he didn't handle shaheen great but like interrogation wise you gotta like sometimes you gotta feel someone out but obviously he felt him out didn't really learn anything and then he was like shaheen's lying now here's the question i just can't head in my head this is random what if joe wanted to vote shaheen out and he wanted to see if joe is shaheen at idol i think like i don't know that's what we've been told right but that would be something if he's if if you have the plan to vote

[01:10:13] shaheen out right and shaheen has the idol but the backup vote is mitch anyway so why does it matter like i don't look like i don't like i don't understand why i don't even matters like i don't i don't understand and get like i just i'm failing to to well the lie about shaheen having the idol was to make sure joe couldn't just go to him compare notes because you would have to have but why shaheen's not the target like unless shaheen was the target right it wouldn't have been

[01:10:39] in this plan they don't want joe to go to shaheen say that he heard this because if shaheen has an idol and that could ruin the blind side but then you don't tell but but the blind side was after they told them so it's kind of just like no no i'm talking about it's kyle and camilla tell tell joe shaheen has an idol right now if joe is thinking that shaheen has an idol right and he's trying to vote him out maybe joe was trying to vote out shaheen before that and then he gets his information

[01:11:08] now he's spooked to make sure shaheen does have idol like i don't see but if any other reason it doesn't matter because if mitch is the vote shaheen has an idol it does matter it does if if kyle and camilla want to make sure joe doesn't go back to shaheen the best way to say we need to keep this on the low low is to say he has an idol we can't talk to him about it well hear me out here oh sorry go ahead no go ahead james because no no hear me out

[01:11:34] i think it's from a pure numbers standpoint right and let's say if once you get the five you have three eva's immune because she has an idol shaheen as an idol and now if you're joe this is the best thing ever my two allies both have idols at five i'm making money media at four and if not i have two people voting with me at three so i feel like i don't see the idol being this and all be all for integrity alliance and how is shaheen and joe yeah that's how they frame joe is learning of this

[01:12:04] that he showed it to camilla and camilla showed it to kyle like that's that's going to spook him that's the beauty of the plan exactly that's the beauty of the play because james if you're joe and that doesn't happen then you're like oh shaheen and eva have idols i'm set i can vote out right it's not the plan if he's playing on you it's the plan that like this is who you close with the mousetrap that got joe and camilla told kyle and now it's dripping back to you

[01:12:30] but you're the head hot show verse two of camilla and kyle don't have anything i'm listening i'm just saying right if you're joe you have mitch already right for the most part how joe feels betrayed yes now joe feels like he doesn't trust him i have mitch i think mitch is more with kyle and camilla okay it's like this is now no no no no no no no you're changing my mind

[01:12:55] here you're changing my mind here so if that so if mitch is a guaranteed anti-joe vote you change my mind but i don't know if that's the case but but but it's the the it's not about obviously for joe things could be different but the kyle and camilla talking about the idol is to get joe to not trust shaheem because you're saying go like oh well my ally shaheem has an idol but now joe's like

[01:13:19] well my ally shaheem did not tell me about the idol that he had so i gotta get one more vote left i'm just like going to the it was shaheem it doesn't actually matter like say wendell's my number one and then you then james and bryce come to me and say that wendell has an idol that he told you about and didn't tell me about and i'm like maybe when to stop my number one anymore and now he already has number one in eva i get everything else i'm saying i'm not

[01:13:47] disagreeing yeah i'm just saying like it doesn't matter for joe like i don't you're right yeah but but like james said there's something else that we're missing that's all i i gotta say like there's no way too out for tribal you have a tight alliance you're voting somebody out and someone comes to you and say oh this person showed me an idol and it's the automatic click like there's some other stuff that's probably why i think joe's leading along with shaheem anyway

[01:14:14] well let's be clear the best part of the idol was after joe integrated shaheem and shaheem went around to every integrated i mean when joe it's an it's an interrogation with interrogation but you're irrigated because it's the integrity right right that was a play on words

[01:14:37] uh again if joe really is this black dad that clearly we see it's the fact that shaheem went around to all of his siblings and we got to see him talking to kyle we got to see him talking to camilla we got to see him talking to eva like yo dad on some he said i can't watch tv after 10 what the hell like that seeing again i didn't like to see shaheem like that but like

[01:15:06] seeing it as a family dynamic dad was funny as a he was working the room to try to plant his seeds but he was the mark and his his his bed was already made kyle and camilla they gotta go down to history because for them to be a part of the circle to get joe into this and then

[01:15:32] to get joe into the shaheem mark and then it worked and now shaheem is coming back to them and they gotta listen to shaheem talk about a joe like that that's a beautiful plan like that was like very interesting to see although as a viewer i wish it wasn't on shaheem right like i wish it was on

[01:15:55] like taking down the integrity alliance uh but again like not really knowing what yeah kyle and camilla know uh and after this episode really in my mind they know they have to have a read on the jury because to make a move like this only signifies that and it's like they want to go head to head with them because they feel like they know they've got what it takes well that's the thing kyle and camilla's

[01:16:21] gameplay has been like so clinical that it's just kind of boring but it's like really incredible gameplay and i think i whichever one of them wins honestly could i think go down as the best winner of the new era and like a really quality winner because that's the kind of complex game you have to play in the new era um so i think it's really impressive and i do i agree with the shaheem sentiment i think um even just looking at him with his with his stash he looks devious and i knew shaheem had

[01:16:50] that that gamer in him and i do i don't even think this was a bad time for that gamer to come alive because i think it was a very valid angle and if joe doesn't win immunity then maybe something different happens uh and it was really fun watching shaheem scheme this episode and i wish we had seen more of that earlier but i understand why we didn't uh would you agree that maybe a part of shaheem's and some of the other people's downfall is that like they put all their eggs in one basket like

[01:17:18] they did not diversify their portfolio enough somewhat but i think shaheem of everybody else in this cast was probably playing the most similar and quality game to a kyle but i just don't think we saw to that extent because you know shaheem went out in sixth place um but shaheem didn't the problem is shaheem didn't have that number one like kyle did that would add a little bit more to his game diversifying of the portfolio that's like that's one of those things it's like but no i think

[01:17:46] that like i think that it's it is but it isn't like i think what is the best part of kyle's game is that he has his number one and his portfolio is diversified so that's like that's literally what i'm working on that in a way that we didn't see as much because it didn't come to fruition but it seemed like shaheem had had relationships with camilla as well had a relationship with mitch with star with

[01:18:11] me so i think shaheem was working the same angle that kyle did but i think sometimes diversified enough of his well i think he's doing the kind of the best of the hand he was felt like instantly clicked joe and eva instantly clicked shaheem didn't have that why is it mitch doing the best of what we want to watch because shaheem has a good team he didn't have an all-star though he was he had a good team but he didn't have that superstar that camilla's a number two camilla's

[01:18:37] a superstar camilla's like kyle they about to vote you out let's figure this thing out it was more so kyle was like i'm playing my idol so i'm i'm getting the way but let's get them out let's figure out how to do this thing right when you have a number two like that in this game where and they're strategic and y'all both gonna have these talks it literally yeah but sometimes bryce i get what you're saying sometimes that's you you're responsible for achieving that yourself but a lot of that is luck like are you put on the same beach as someone who you instantly connect with you know and i think

[01:19:05] shaheem didn't quite have that um or if he did it was maybe a thomas who he had really no control over thomas going home whereas joe and eva and kyle camilla were able to just bond like like that you know i love shaheem but i just feel like this whole season shaheem has been in a majority yeah and and but i think i think at six in his mind you know he takes the shot at joe and eva

[01:19:31] and maybe he miscalculated but if it works then he's not in a bad he doesn't have bad like winner equity like uh shots with i think that's what bryce is getting at it's like like you said like all right so mitch came down mitch and shaheem both had the same kind of fate even though shaheem perceived as played a better game you get to the point to make a move when you get down to these numbers but you don't have the people to make a move so part of that's the miscalculation but i think

[01:19:58] it's very very reasonable for shaheem to think okay once we get to six kyle and camilla and mitch will be willing to make a move on joe and eva just based on his calculus of the game i think that's and we don't even know that they weren't if joe hadn't won immunity so um sometimes you just have to set yourself up to take a big swing and that swing might not always work but i don't think it was like the wrong swing like i think in standard survivor in shaheem shoes you would be like in

[01:20:23] shaheem and in mitch's shoes you would be like kyle and camilla probably want to take out joe and eva maybe at six we can split the vote whatever um but it just turns out in this season that kyle and camilla are kind of looking at on at it on a different level and if that is the right way or wrong way to look at it like we'll find out but um i don't think just in like the standard strategy of survivor that

[01:20:46] shaheem had a bad idea like if he could take out joe at six and then like kyle at five and camilla at four then shaheem probably wins the game so um if you can line your shot up and that but and that and that same process that wouldn't work for mitch no because i we didn't we didn't maybe see how many individual immunity challenges has mitch won um one to zero like zero or one individual how many how many does shaheem win one right

[01:21:17] zero that was a word but i don't i'm not saying i'm just saying i'm just looking at the resume shaheem's position in this game shaheem has been in that core alliance much more than mitch has the whole time and i also think shaheem has had better relationships with the outliers than mitch ever had so i don't think that's a hot take to say that shaheem has been more and had more agency and social connections in the game than mitch has but again i'm getting at is that then it's

[01:21:43] like but who's still in the game agree but like but no no but like if you're shaheem i'm just i'm just saying like again i think that they're just playing different games and again i'm i definitely agree that's why i'm not talking about but i just feel like in this life i think for shaheem given his situation he's like okay if i can get to six here's a series of events that has an okay chance

[01:22:07] of happening maybe maybe this plan works out 25 of the time where we can take out like joe kyle and eva and then shaheem is not in a bad spot and like you're never gonna have a plan that's gonna work 100 of the time but you gotta know when to take your shot it's not always gonna hit but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right shot okay i think i don't what are you saying shaheem should have done i don't like i'm not saying anything about what shaheem should have done i'm just saying like i feel like

[01:22:36] devil's advocate i could take the same thing as to what you're saying with mitch at this position and apply it but that is similarly true like you should have had the same mindset as shaheem with this move i don't think we quite saw that from mitch but then if you want to compare mitch and shaheem i think it's different scenarios but who was more entrenched in their the core alliance mitch or shaheem shaheem who had better relationships with like the people on the outskirts i feel like it

[01:23:03] was shaheem so how can you have but i also feel like does the jury sometimes look at somebody say if they got to the end mitch has been at this point fighting from the bottom from the beginning so for him to still be up in there and again maybe i don't know i get what you're saying but i just don't think that's what you're saying about shaheem so like all i'm looking at is like what are the most like if you run the season like the way i look at like good survivor play if you run the sorry sorry wendell if you

[01:23:31] run the season 10 000 times whose sort of plans are going to work out at the highest frequency and i think that this works out for shaheem more than mitch's tactics right now it would work out for me but obviously mitch could win but i think shaheem with this route would win more often and you're saying who's still in the game but i think there's situations where someone could go out pre-merge and still have like played a a more win friendly game than someone who makes it to the final three

[01:23:57] like you know it's just it's just the path and decisions you make they all come with risk and sometimes you're going to go out early but you doesn't mean you have that doesn't mean you didn't have the right mindset yeah i mean shaheem played a good game he could have won price is funny yo price is price is doing the sarcastic uncle and the sarcastic uncle and not the not the overbearing dad like that like that's the cookout right the sarcastic uncle like oh yeah that's what you that's

[01:24:25] what do you think all right cool what about this like this is like i like it yeah what shaheem live on the west coast correct boys okay okay look out for my california boys but i stay by all these i see i see i love shaheem and i love mitch so this isn't a knock or uh either i think we're analyzing their game separately i didn't want to draw a shaheem mitch comparison but um just because you go home doesn't mean you didn't have like a good plan but the good plan doesn't always work out

[01:24:55] there's other good plans that were better than shaheem's but he doesn't always know that very very very true this is a fun one i i think there was there's a lot of nuances especially in kyle and camilla's strategy and so it was great having james come help to break it down like i think we see i think we see their circumstances very similarly i think it was really fun to discuss james's lighting has changed like

[01:25:21] every five minutes it's getting seductive now yeah hey man stuff to do tonight you know i'm saying okay he got a red light special right now get me out of here he about to spread some seeds whoa maybe so so before we close this out do this move was no operation italy but do we feel like this move

[01:25:45] by kyle and camilla was enough saison seasoning in the pot for us to have a mucho grande feast i say yeah no only because end of the day it's kind of like i feel like joe's number one was eva and you know i think joe looks at anybody at that third seed even as a win

[01:26:12] truth be told like i don't think he looks at anybody as like competition and winning i mean maybe slightly but i think he's confidently thinks that he's played the best game in his mind he may have and he may have been playing he has played the best game maybe to some people's opinion so i feel like when you're in that position you have i think this is one of the few times except for probably mitch where you heard everybody at the end was not afraid to sit next anybody like you may optimize your chances what's the point of optimizing when you still think you can

[01:26:40] win and that's the kind of i feel like i like that confident gameplay and like when i see players instead of i'm gonna shrink to the moment i'm gonna get bigger for the moment like i'm ready for this i'm playing my game and i want to talk my game at the end and whether you win or not is what it is but it's better than that to say oh i want to take out people because i didn't do anything all game like nah so i like the season all right winner picks

[01:27:07] camilla i think i'm going with kyle only just because of his agency i want to go with camilla but i think kyle is more the the face i got kind of but i'm rooting for everybody guy in east yeah i mean camilla take if camilla takes out kyle too and wins it would also be an awesome story so i think i think those are the two most likely scenarios and i give joe or eva maybe 10 so what if just all right before we

[01:27:37] go what if next episode eva comes around and it's like listen joe rubbed me the wrong way with how he dishaheen like we got to get him out and they vote joe out is that enough to change do you think that would be to change your minds would that be a winning move for eva i mean there's a lot of big ifs that you just threw out well i mean but okay go with the big ifs um for now well

[01:28:06] it's so i think that's so unlikely and so like antithetical like against everything that she's done so far in the game that it would be hard to even like imagine her doing that and then going to the jury and be like yeah stab joe in the back um but maybe if that happened then maybe like it would give her that marianne angle but i don't know if she's gonna do that i mean her best angle is saying hey hey guys i use joe to get to the end thank you for not voting this out and you're mad at my

[01:28:35] gameplay but i'm here with all this stuff and you could have voted me out yeah her best week well at least yeah then our ideal should be to like idol out kyle or camilla at five take out and maybe she plays an idol on joe at five or something and then it's like i and then can be like i protected you joe like you would have gone home without me and then take out whoever's left of kyle or camilla at four and then go against joe and mitch and maybe people are bitter enough at joe

[01:29:03] but like eva enough for being a straight shooter and overcoming the obstacles that she's overcome where they would be like let's let's give it to eva um well i guess we'll we got a couple of days to figure out to see what happens i guess we can all find a speaker under new york and watch it together yeah you know jack loves to speak our finale well thank you so much james wendell and jack this has

[01:29:30] been your survivor news covering survivor season 48 episode 12 we'll be back next week with the outcome of season 48 see you next week bye it's a purple pants it's a purple pants it's a purple pants podcast you better get your headphones and listen up quick it's the purple pants podcast you let listen in public might make your stomach hurt it's the purple pants podcast she's trying to unwind you better get that box

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