Purple Pants Podcast | One-on-One w/ Katurah Topps

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[00:00:30] It's the Purple Pants, it's the Purple Pants, it's the Purple Pants podcast.

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[00:00:53] It's the Purple Pants.

[00:00:54] It's the Purple Pants.

[00:00:56] Hello, hello, and welcome to the Purple Pants podcast.

[00:01:01] Continuing our post-survivor season 45 coverage, we are back with episode 346, one-on-one with

[00:01:11] couture tops.

[00:01:12] I serve as your humble and also gracious host Bryce Isaiah, and I thank you so much for tuning

[00:01:18] in to this week's Survivor News, one-on-one.

[00:01:23] If you could be so kind to ensure you are subscribed to the Purple Pants podcast, we

[00:01:28] are available on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, wherever it is that you can find

[00:01:34] podcasts, the Purple Pants podcast awaits for you to subscribe, write a review, and give

[00:01:39] you a baby boy some five stars, again, we are back with our Survivor News post-season

[00:01:47] of season 45.

[00:01:49] We are on the horizon of a new season, season 46, and you know your baby boy cannot wait

[00:01:55] and listen, Bryce, and when tour 46 is coming soon, so listen, make sure you keep those

[00:02:00] notifications and keep a lookout, but I'm so excited to sit here today and talk with

[00:02:05] my good sis, couture.

[00:02:07] I think that throughout this season, Couture, and I have had such a dynamic relationship.

[00:02:14] We have cultivated such a special friendship, and which is why we decided to do a one-on-one,

[00:02:20] and I'm really just excited to hear from Couture.

[00:02:22] You know, all season, I was rooting for Couture, and I was showing my sis love, and I think

[00:02:26] this post-season interview is not like any of the other ones that you have heard from

[00:02:31] Couture.

[00:02:32] I feel like, you know here on the Purple Pants podcast, it's a safe space for you to come

[00:02:37] as you are and to speak your truth, and I think that we really get to see a side of

[00:02:42] Couture that we have not seen, and I think Couture is beautiful, so smart, so talented,

[00:02:47] and it's just such a special podcast.

[00:02:50] So I'm so excited for you to hear my conversation with the Bello Queen that is Couture Top.

[00:02:56] So listen, let's get into this one-on-one with Couture Top.

[00:03:02] [MUSIC]

[00:03:18] And keeping our survivor news post-season coverage, we are back with a one-on-one.

[00:03:24] I'm so excited to talk to my friend, my sister, the Bello Queen.

[00:03:29] It's Couture Tops from Season 45, Couture, welcome to the podcast.

[00:03:34] >> Thank you so much for having me, rise high.

[00:03:38] >> So excited, I feel like this has been a long time coming, so I'm just really so excited

[00:03:43] to have you here, and we are getting ready to bring in a new season, and so of course,

[00:03:49] I think it's just important to, I wanted to have some personal takes with you about

[00:03:53] your just whole experience on Survivor, but I guess I really want to start from the beginning.

[00:03:58] >> What is your survivor fandom level, like are you a, I know every season, I know every

[00:04:03] player, I know every, or are you a like, I know that show, where you fall?

[00:04:08] >> I am closer to the- >> I know every season.

[00:04:11] >> But I'm not at Brandon level where I can be like, let me tell you what color the buffs

[00:04:17] were, the name of the tribe, but I would say I'm probably about 85% strong fan.

[00:04:23] >> We love that, I feel like everyone that I've talked to just even personally from your

[00:04:27] season, everyone always says, I'm not at Brandon level.

[00:04:30] >> I will say I went back, Survivor is my step away from the world and breathed show,

[00:04:36] and it has been that for me for years.

[00:04:38] So I was like, let me go back, and I watched your season.

[00:04:41] >> It's the first three episodes for me, I don't really know what happened.

[00:04:46] When you got the word that you were going to be on this season, you go through casting,

[00:04:51] you always calls, they have you run and taking these doctors notes, and then it's like almost,

[00:04:56] it's like a dating app, right?

[00:04:57] Like where it was like, we had a good date, and then all of a sudden they go cool.

[00:05:01] >> Because they love me, yeah, yeah.

[00:05:03] >> So sorry, when you got that call, how was your preparation for the show?

[00:05:09] >> I prepared hard, this is why I'm a lawyer, because to be a lawyer, you just need to prepare.

[00:05:16] And then you could be a lawyer, you could be a great lawyer anytime as long as you prepare.

[00:05:20] And so I'm used to being like, I want it, I see it, prepare, go.

[00:05:25] And then I can put all of my energy into it.

[00:05:27] And so I sent in my casting video in September, and I wasn't really living the way I wanted

[00:05:34] it to be.

[00:05:35] I really did kind of find myself as a recluse with COVID and everything after that.

[00:05:41] And so I remember I had a date, I was like, well, if I have a date and my face looks a

[00:05:45] little okay, let me go this time to go ahead and do my survivor casting video.

[00:05:50] And I just was like, if I can give myself six minutes and do something for Katura.

[00:05:56] So I was like, if I could just do two takes, that six minutes max for me of something that

[00:06:01] could possibly be good, let me just see what happens.

[00:06:05] And then my date actually came to pick me up and she was like, hey, what's going on with

[00:06:09] you?

[00:06:10] And I was like, can you just look at these two, pick with what everyone you like, I'm not

[00:06:13] even looking at them again.

[00:06:15] And she did, and we sent it in on that Friday night, literally right as I was walking the

[00:06:20] house to go to dinner and then casting call me back Monday morning.

[00:06:24] So immediately since they talked to me in September by October, I hired a private swim

[00:06:29] coach and I was taking swim lessons, I immediately started gathering firewood materials, I started

[00:06:35] ordering puzzles like immediately.

[00:06:37] This is like October.

[00:06:39] And then they don't tell you that you're officially cast it until way later, Dr. Stuff

[00:06:45] and chaos, but I could tell you myself, how dare I get this potential opportunity?

[00:06:51] And I don't know when they're going to say, okay, thing, you're good to go.

[00:06:55] I'm not going to be not prepared by the time they tell me.

[00:06:59] And I was good October up until February.

[00:07:03] But that's because survivor was talking to me every single day, like it was like every

[00:07:09] day or at least every other day, like it was constant.

[00:07:12] Okay, do this.

[00:07:14] Okay, prepare for this.

[00:07:15] This is like, and then in February, they just stopped.

[00:07:18] So I kind of had to pep talk myself.

[00:07:20] So I had a little two week, like little rough period, but I would say most of the time I

[00:07:24] was just, you know, for a fairing.

[00:07:26] So I feel like having a black mother, having black sisters, right?

[00:07:32] I feel like when I see a black woman on survivor, you know, I feel like first question is, what's

[00:07:38] the hairstyle giving, right?

[00:07:40] And so you were, you went with the braids girl, walk us through that process.

[00:07:43] What was it like where you were like, what I'm going to do with my hair out there?

[00:07:47] I love you.

[00:07:48] I love that you're asking these questions, you know, I mean, these post survivor interviews

[00:07:51] I've done and nobody asked about my hair, if you know, you know, cause I saw you out

[00:07:56] there.

[00:07:57] I said, okay, not, is that the not list?

[00:08:00] Okay.

[00:08:01] It's out there.

[00:08:02] We see you.

[00:08:03] No, I mean, I'm telling you, thinking about every single detail I already knew before I

[00:08:07] ever applied to survivor that if I want to survive, I'd have great because I will watch

[00:08:12] the girls and I'd be like, this is the safest way to be able to run, jump, mud, sand, everything.

[00:08:19] And like, I have for sea, Nigerian hair.

[00:08:24] Listen, she still ate sister heart thing because they held up.

[00:08:28] So they held up.

[00:08:30] They held up.

[00:08:31] But I even have a video that I recorded of myself when I got home, taking them down and

[00:08:35] just talking about the experience because I felt I could feel Fiji in them.

[00:08:41] I felt I went through so much in that game, like so much more than I ever thought could

[00:08:46] ever happen.

[00:08:47] And it just felt like all of that was in the braids.

[00:08:51] You know what I mean?

[00:08:52] Like it was a really powerful moment.

[00:08:53] I'm glad I recorded it.

[00:08:55] So me, I feel like I'm a keeper of things, like just little moments from the different

[00:09:00] things.

[00:09:01] Did you keep a braid or anything?

[00:09:02] Oh, I didn't think about that.

[00:09:05] I think I'm the same way, but with documenting.

[00:09:08] I want to keep something that I can go back to to remember every time I was making fire

[00:09:13] to prepare, I have a video of it.

[00:09:16] Every time I was going to the pool, I have a video.

[00:09:18] Those for me are the way to keep the momentos without looking around and being like, what

[00:09:22] is this random braid and then throwing away on accident?

[00:09:25] It's funny because I feel like every time we talk, every time we get together, I just

[00:09:28] realize how much we are so similar, right?

[00:09:30] I love hearing all of like your self care and like putting your mental health first because

[00:09:35] I feel like it's something that's so easy to say like, oh, you can say it, right?

[00:09:39] But actually putting it into practice and I think survivor was such an interesting experience.

[00:09:45] For me, it was like what happens when your face with your demons and you don't have anything

[00:09:51] to do but this mine.

[00:09:53] And then you don't have those regular comforts that you can go to to say, let me take a hot

[00:09:58] shower and get out of this.

[00:09:59] And even though they've shortened it to 26th day, baby, I think people forget like when

[00:10:07] you are rising with the sun and you are going to sleep with the sun, it's a lot of time

[00:10:13] in between.

[00:10:14] And when you are with people that are not your people, that are not like you're the people

[00:10:19] that you love sometimes, they will be annoying you sometimes or it's just like, why are you

[00:10:23] going to walk like that?

[00:10:24] Like, why she got to scratch her arm like that?

[00:10:27] You know, it's like it's crazy.

[00:10:29] What a transition to Bella, right?

[00:10:31] Well, before you get to that, I do want to just say, speaking of VB and a survivor fan,

[00:10:38] I have always been the fan that says, I want to go on survivor, but I hope the season I

[00:10:44] go, they take it back to 39 days because 26 days is not real survivor.

[00:10:49] And if you did, I've been that girl, I will admit it probably.

[00:10:53] But baby, did my story change because 25, I was there 25 out of 26 days.

[00:11:00] And it was already like, what the hell, it is more than long, like it is more than long

[00:11:07] enough.

[00:11:08] And it for anybody out there who's like, 39 days, y'all don't really have the full experience.

[00:11:12] You get it.

[00:11:13] You really get it because they jam packed so much other stuff in there so that you are

[00:11:19] constantly like, what's happening next?

[00:11:21] What's happening?

[00:11:22] For me, that was the most exhausting thing beyond just like having to protect myself.

[00:11:26] Really the most exhausting thing was any day, any moment, somebody could just pull up on

[00:11:31] a boat and be like, all right, here's how your life is going to change today.

[00:11:34] Or okay, your votes are taken now, here's what you're just like, you've got to be prepared

[00:11:39] for the unknown and the unknown always be so strong.

[00:11:42] Yeah.

[00:11:43] And like with the 26 days, they make it even more like.

[00:11:47] Oh, thank you.

[00:11:49] So it's crazy.

[00:11:50] You being a part of Bello, right?

[00:11:52] First of all, Bello, one of my favorite tries, right?

[00:11:56] What was it like when you got out there and you saw the people?

[00:11:59] I felt like when it was you, Kelly and Kendra, I was like, okay, these are my girls right

[00:12:03] here.

[00:12:04] These are my three.

[00:12:05] I'm talking with y'all.

[00:12:06] What was that Bello experience like?

[00:12:09] Yeah.

[00:12:10] Honestly, the first few days of Bello were so cool because it's new, it's like, oh, we're

[00:12:16] doing it.

[00:12:17] Like we're playing Survivor.

[00:12:18] We're really here.

[00:12:19] You know, and you just come in believing that everybody on your tribe, you're going to connect

[00:12:24] with in some way, at least those early days, right?

[00:12:26] This is cool by y'all time.

[00:12:28] And I looked around and I'm like, oh my God, there's a gay girl here who's also 29.

[00:12:35] Check easy, breezy, and she's from New York.

[00:12:38] Kelly and I are talking about Cubby Hall and all these gay clubs here and what's the first

[00:12:42] time you went?

[00:12:43] You know, like we had all of that.

[00:12:45] And then Kendra and I just naturally, I feel like just bonded like our spirits are similar.

[00:12:51] And then I was like, oh my God, and there's a black guy here.

[00:12:54] Like I like, check, check, check, check.

[00:12:57] Look, this is a group of people I can really work with.

[00:13:00] So it was really magical.

[00:13:02] Those first few days, just a ton of learning and exploring and being like, okay, you got

[00:13:07] that I have a dialogue with myself because the way I've lived, I've had to rely on myself

[00:13:14] a lot.

[00:13:15] And so it's really like two people here.

[00:13:18] And I know that sounds a little crazy.

[00:13:19] I hear you.

[00:13:20] I hear you.

[00:13:21] When I talk about me, I say we because we need somebody to be, no, we do this.

[00:13:30] We get up like we need it can't just be couture, it's got to be couture and couture who wins

[00:13:35] couture in the shape, but that makes sense.

[00:13:38] But when I tell you you're speaking my language, my internal dialogue is us, you know, like

[00:13:45] it's really, I receive that so much and something that I feel like I don't talk about a lot

[00:13:51] because I feel like I don't want people to think I'm crazy or I'm scared to put like

[00:13:55] hey, babe, this internal dialogue that is going on nonstop, yep, yep.

[00:14:02] And it really is my saving grace.

[00:14:03] Like I want to have those hesitations that you have, like I've had moments where I'm

[00:14:08] like, let me just not say that to people.

[00:14:10] But I've reached a point now where I'm like, this, baby, this is the only thing keeping

[00:14:14] me floating.

[00:14:15] In the beginning of the fellow, it was really me being like, okay, we got it.

[00:14:18] We're doing this, you know, like, because I had already talked to my therapist before

[00:14:22] coming to Survivor and we talked about what will you do for your coping mechanisms when

[00:14:27] you don't have the things of the world available to you.

[00:14:30] And I think for me, I think the most frustrating thing about the couture Bruce thing, because

[00:14:35] again, on surface level is funny.

[00:14:37] It's like, look, like, look at Bruce, like, you know, and then it's like I also

[00:14:41] like in the edit, right? I think that for Bruce outside of you, right? There are so many other storylines, right? With like, you know, what's going on for Bruce? And I think the thing specifically that upset me the most about the Bruce and couture storyline because when I like, you know, I'm a fan of Bruce. I think Bruce is funny. I think it's a great personality. I'm a fan of you. I love you, right? And I think the thing, like as a black queer person watching the show and seeing my sister, right? I think the thing that frustrated me people are like, Oh, she has no idea.

[00:15:11] There's no game all that I was like, and I just hated the fact that because of it, we did not really get to see much of what the strategy went, right? And so it's frustrated. And I just kept telling people that like, now, granted, I didn't have much to go off off the edit, but I'm just like, I think that I get probably made it hard for you as sometimes.

[00:15:33] And I'm like, all right, y'all eat me up, but I feel like when I see someone like you and when you met Jake and when Jake was telling you all the lawyer stuff, and you was like a lawyer. What's a lawyer?

[00:15:48] A judge? Like, you know, and I'm like, I could see how dynamic, how smart you are, how like I could just there. I could see how you move. So I'm like, there is more to couture that we are not seeing.

[00:16:03] And I think that is the thing that frustrated me the most. And what I would love to know is, could you tell us some of like the connections, some of the relationships that we did not get to see because of this storyline, again, on the surface level is funny.

[00:16:18] It's like, you know, you had some classic one liners. You had some classic silence. And I'm like, Oh, I don't even know what's going on.

[00:16:28] But yeah, no, I agree. You know, that's that's why everything I try to take everything in balance.

[00:16:36] And so during those first few episodes, I was like, what the heck is going on? Like, why am I not being shown about anything else? But I can't really be bothered by the edit because I do think you have to be our specific dynamics and identities to know what's really happening.

[00:16:56] So I understand why, like, you know what I mean, the edit had that and I can't really be too mad at it. But I will say, I think the problem on Bello was initially, we started strategizing too much.

[00:17:08] Like, we never went to tribal council. Really good and really bad. Right. Right. Because we're preparing for it. And so my gameplay was, I want to pull my allies as tight as possible.

[00:17:23] And so we, Kelly and Kendra, I'm like, let's make sure we're as close as possible. And we just need to pull in our fourth, who was Brando. And we're good.

[00:17:33] We run this, we run the next try swap. Like we have our relationship to establish. And so that's really what I prioritize in that earlier part. But unfortunately, I start to see Kelly was leaving the girls and going to Bruce because we initially told Kelly, go to the boys,

[00:17:51] cause I'm Bruce because obviously Bruce was pulled to her. And I was like, no, damn, well, I'm not going to be able to get in. And Kendra was a medium.

[00:18:00] Like, whoa, maybe if Kelly don't work out, he's going to you, but like Kelly's working out, you know what I mean. So what me and Kendra would do is we would meet all the time and discuss.

[00:18:11] Do we really have Kelly? Do we not have her? Is she going in and getting information and pulling us back? And while Kendra and I would be discussing that, I also peeped that Kelly was closer to Kendra than she did.

[00:18:20] And so my thought process is, watch, just watch, focus, listen, pay attention, see what's happening. Don't get lulled into a comfortability and just be like, yeah, I got this alliance and we're good to go be watching.

[00:18:35] And I'm watching and I'm noticing Kelly doesn't always bring us information back when she goes to Bruce. Kelly goes with the boys a lot. Kelly's doing, you know what I mean. And I'm feeling that Kelly's going to flip on us.

[00:18:45] And if she does stay with the girls, she's going to pull Kendra before she pulls me. And so I did a lot of just kind of mentally trying to figure out what my options were and that earlier bill apart in case we did go to tribal.

[00:19:01] And I think because all of us were doing the same thing. And all of us were saying, if we go to tribal, who are going to do it? Like the boys are doing that with Kelly and then Kendra and I were doing this, but it did create too much chaos.

[00:19:19] But I do think it's show where the alliances were, because while bellow never went to tribal, we sure do know where the lines were drawn.

[00:19:29] And so there's like, again, Kelly, such a great player right she's a strategic player. And so my true, I feel like, you know, old Bryce from Kanye, I should be taking notes from Kelly right because I feel like but we, we had a balance in that right.

[00:19:45] And we had an interview with Kelly and I asked Kelly because that's she essentially said that right where she felt like she was like the middle person.

[00:19:53] I asked her like, was there ever a point in time that did you worry that being such the middle like that everyone could come together and then be like, wow, she like, we could be targeting you.

[00:20:06] And so but again, shout out to people in too good of a position for that to ever happen. Right. And also the people who would have to come together are people who couldn't come together.

[00:20:17] Which is another really big thing I think for her game that she realized that and was like, let me be in the middle. For me, I was like, I don't, I was, I'm already uncomfortable with an ally who's in the middle.

[00:20:31] Because I'm looking for an ally, like I'm looking for a you not in the middle. You are my team. You know, I want it. I mean, I said it in my pregame thing like I want it blind loyalty, like a logical loyalty.

[00:20:45] But I was like, okay, I'll settle for logical loyalty like I'll settle for a little bit. So I really was trying to like I wanted to have bonds with people that were like the three before, where they made those bonds and that initial

[00:20:59] try and that lasted the whole game. And I'm like, I'm a firm believer. You cannot get foreign survivor. You cannot play the game. Well, you cannot win that game unless you've got a strong ally. And like, it's got to be mutual. It's got to be real like I got you when you got me.

[00:21:18] Um, because I kind of try to play survivor the way I've been surviving in the world, because I've been surviving in the world but I've been killing it. Like, you know, you look at where I started.

[00:21:33] There were days that I pitched myself and I'm like, what the hell? You know what I mean? Like, how are we here? How did we have this? Like, I literally was five seconds away from being a child bride.

[00:21:43] Like that is like night and day, and now I'm a New York City attorney at the number one law firm in the country. Like, it's like, how did that, you know what I mean? So I, I told myself, you what you've been doing in the world already works.

[00:21:57] Bring it in to survivor and add your survivor knowledge. And my thing was first and foremost, get a real ally. Get a real person, which is I approached Bruce first. He was my first I wanted Bruce.

[00:22:10] I was like, we can play this where they will never suspect we're together, but we beat it like all I just wanted was a person that you can roll with because I was like, in the real world.

[00:22:21] I know how hard it is to go through and be alone. It's so much harder to survive when you're alone, when you only got you to talk to, when you only got you to evaluate your decisions.

[00:22:34] When the days are rough and you're at your lowest and there's nobody to call. I know that life. I know it well. I hate that I know it, but I know it.

[00:22:42] And I was like, you need survivors going to be a mind fuck in and of itself. Like, just on a regular day of the best case scenario, survivor will try to kick your ass and probably succeed.

[00:22:56] No way, you need a person that you can go to and be like, Okay, breathe. And I just, I think Kelly was too strategic of a player to give up Bruce, which I totally agree if I'm Kelly and I'm in Kelly's position and he's pulling me in and willing to do that.

[00:23:10] And I can be with the girls on the other side. I'm doing both. But again, I was in a position where I knew I that would never happen with Bruce. He would never pull me in that way.

[00:23:19] So it was like, I don't have that option. I only have the girls as my option. And if the girls are my only option. And Kelly is the girl who's leading the girls and she's pretty much over there and kinder might be nice.

[00:23:32] I'm in a really interesting scenario where I'm like, you've got to be constantly watching, but also preparing. So I'm laying seats. This is what I'm doing at Bell.

[00:23:44] I'm laying seats. I'm telling Kelly private stuff so she can feel as close to me as possible. Like, I'm doing everything I can to say if we do go to tribal council, I know I'm most, the most likely to go.

[00:23:56] But hopefully I create bonds enough to push me through.

[00:24:03] What was sure we didn't see much of you in the beginning with Jake? Did you guys talk, work together? Or was it kind of like, because for me, when I, you know, you lasted a lot longer than me. I was only out there couple of days.

[00:24:18] For me, it was the people that were not working with me. I mean, you know, right? Like there's no community. Like, you know, we'll talk as a group, but there's no talking at all.

[00:24:31] And I feel like in the newer seasons, sometimes that doesn't really happen as much. I think my guys gel more like what was your relationship with Jake early on?

[00:24:40] Yeah, I didn't want to be the person who honestly excluded anybody. Like, I knew I wanted to be like, these are my people, but I wanted at least majority or if not everybody to say like, I like Katura, I have a Lisa, a working connection and relationship with her at some level.

[00:24:56] Like, I didn't want anybody to be like, I've never talked to Katura. And then because to me that heightens my easy breezy couture can go out the door.

[00:25:03] Right. All I would kept thinking was women go out early and black people go out early and yo-ass is both and don't be doing anything to give anybody any reason to say, you know what, we let her go.

[00:25:14] So I knew I was going to talk to everybody. And Jake was included in that. Jake and I talked. We connected early on.

[00:25:21] But it was more like on a human level and not a strategy level. I didn't get, we're going to be thinking on the same level.

[00:25:29] Now, again, Monday morning quarterback, still premerged, no one should know now. Do you think maybe like if you were back out there, it's like, hmm, maybe I might like, because as a viewer.

[00:25:41] Yeah, Jake making the moods, we like, oh, I mean, so they weren't all with, they didn't get executed. But I think as a viewer, you know, we're like, oh, we want the hell married throw it to the end, like, you know.

[00:25:58] And again, I also think, in my mind, because you know, I thought, you know, I got all this going on. I'm like, with Jake's move style in these big plays like if him a couture could have came together like y'all would have like, I mean, can you imagine the final five vote would have been way.

[00:26:19] But at this point, I'm like, Jake, I want to get to know you better like I need to.

[00:26:25] Honestly, I think that.

[00:26:29] I think Jake and I had fundamentally different philosophies about the game. And I do think I could have used a more of Jake's approach of let's make the big moves less freakin go all in whatever right.

[00:26:42] And I think Jake could have used a little bit more of my survive. Watch me a little more thoughtful about it. Like, think about the relationships before you do something.

[00:26:52] So I do think theoretically, we could have been a really great pair together because we would have balanced each other out. But there's just some people you're going to be like, cool, let's do this with and some people you want.

[00:27:04] And Jake and I literally never had any animosity. It was never any like I just like Jake or Matt. Like, it was always like I love Jake. Like, that's how they've made that rules work for me so much because I love Jake so much and I was like your girlfriend's ring.

[00:27:17] Oh my like, it was a big deal for me because I know Jake, I love Jake.

[00:27:22] But it just, like I feel like there's moments and there's people that you're like we talked to and it feels like let's go let's run the distance.

[00:27:29] And honestly, I had looked at Jake and already felt like I don't know if I can trust your thinking. And then Jake was really Bruce's number one for a very long time before Kelly came and I think Kelly and Jake were kind of playing that role back and forth.

[00:27:43] But I remember I started, I think it was like day three or four, and I started picking up on sort of the energy that was given towards me.

[00:27:52] Huh, it's kind of feeling like I'm not going to be able to get in here. And so you need to recognize when you're not going to be able to get in a certain space.

[00:28:01] And so, almost, it kind of foreclosed a lot of other opportunities around it. And that's why I say it bothers me so much because it wasn't just one person.

[00:28:12] So it was a little complex.

[00:28:16] Yeah.

[00:28:17] Is that helpful to that?

[00:28:19] No, it does. I feel like, now be honest, I feel like the maybe some of the average viewers of people listening or watching will feel like that's an excuse, right? Like, however, you personally, who feel like I was on a tribe where I knew that there were people that I was not going to be able to break in

[00:28:45] because of my blackness, because of my queerness, they could not see me as a loyal bro, right? And I know what that feeling feels like, right. And whenever I talk about it like it's, I feel like I get like, oh, you just saw that the game, you don't know what you're, you don't know.

[00:29:04] But like, I feel like there are things outside of our control that you just got to maneuver around. Right. Like, that's what we do.

[00:29:14] I'm not man clip, not man footage of me ever being, you know, nasty or blowing up or why are you doing this to me?

[00:29:23] like that never happens the entire game. You will never see me lose my composure. That's why my professionals were so spicy because it was like, this is the only place I can breathe. Right. Yes. Yes. Well, I knew I can keep game and understand what's happening even if I don't understand the why because I was very confused about the why. But I may not understand why this is happening, but I can say, okay, we gotta acknowledge when it's happening and move around it and I was not going to take the. Okay.

[00:29:53] Let me just lay down approach. Well, I couldn't get in with these people. It is what it is. Like, no, that's why I was making sure that Kelly and I were cozying up and Kendra and I were cozying up and I'm talking to Brando and laughing.

[00:30:06] And when you see images of me on my tribe, I look like the happiest friendliest, get along, yes, fellow strong. I knew I couldn't use an excuse and I didn't. I am able to state what happened. What I also saying, and I got my butt up out of there as fast as I could and figured out

[00:30:25] you know, now, you know, you know, I love you. You know, even hard, right? Like that you said that we won't find a clip of you writing this book. But we will maybe have several clips. Are you looking for that idol girl girl, girl, they was running up on you. Now,

[00:30:50] when I tell you, I think it might have been Kelly and Kayla, but you had your little idol hunt and stick. Girl, they came, you say, well, what's up? Oh, no, I was, I was looking for some poo poo. Now, I was like contour.

[00:31:09] Yeah. Talk us through those moments. Yeah. What I really want to know is, I want to know what that internal dialogue was doing in those moments when they woke up for you, because I feel like it was the internal

[00:31:24] dialogue. I actually love that moment because for me, it represents me saying, like, I just did all this. Oh, I wasn't going to lay down and do, I knew I wasn't, but it took me a minute to get there.

[00:31:52] And then I will admit, I did have moments starting at the end of Bello, beginning of Lulu and then all through Lulu, where I did feel like, should I just get in a fetal position and cry like clearly I'm the outcast.

[00:32:06] But I reached a moment, especially after Lulu being on Lulu really hit me because that's when everything that felt on Bello intensified. It was like Kendra was gone. There was no need to keep up appearances.

[00:32:19] And there's Bruce and his two number ones, and Katora. And we know Caleb ain't going to rush. No feathers. He's coming into Bello. He's, he's outnumbered. It's four bellows over here. He's got to suck up to whatever he's got to do to get in.

[00:32:32] So again, what a random but interesting, precarious situation for me to be in. And I was like, Oh my God, I have been praying on the tribe swap so much and thinking once I get to try swap, I'm good.

[00:32:44] But imagine that I can get the prize swap with the exact same people. This very strong group of three that I'm on the outs of. And I'm like, what Holy hell.

[00:32:55] So anyway, that's a long window way of saying.

[00:32:59] Once I got to the point of Lulu where I was like, we are not sitting down and crying. Get up, figure it out. We will survive this game.

[00:33:07] It's not good enough for me to just say if Lulu goes to tribal coutures out hell, no, I'm fighting. And so yeah, I was looking for the idol. And I would take my eyes and look for the idol every chance I could.

[00:33:19] And I was like, and so what if they see me? Of course, I don't want to get caught. And reality, I'm reacting to what I can already pick up. And that's my game. That's my survival method.

[00:33:29] Watch it. See what the energy is like and the energy was clear. The energy was extremely clear. If we only had Bello, there'd be moments I would be doubting myself. Like, is this in your head? Are you maybe exaggerating? Do you know this people not really thinking of this this way?

[00:33:47] But Lulu clarified everything. And that's why I can talk so clearly about it now.

[00:33:53] When you make the merge, congratulations, you know, making the merge. Was it a breath of fresh air like that? Like, Oh my God, I now have different options. What like walk us through that?

[00:34:07] I would imagine after hearing your story and actually getting the details, I would imagine that it's like, let's go. Let's jump. Let's jump. New people. Hello, we say your name is Reba.

[00:34:28] It wasn't like that oddly enough. It was so crazy because it was like that survivor for me. I was so thinking as soon as I get to Lulu to try change, I'm gonna be good. And then it was like, no.

[00:34:40] And I was like, OK, as soon as the merge happened would be good. But the way it happened right before going into the merge, we were like, Lulu is basically gone.

[00:34:49] It's going to be Reba versus Bello. And what we need to do is have these numbers. And I'm a survivor fan enough to know what happens in those first few votes of the merge sets the tone for the whole game.

[00:35:02] So I was literally like, you better suck it up. And you best friends with Bello again, because right now we need to be blue strong to be able to just knock down some reds and sure knock down a few reds.

[00:35:15] And eventually the numbers will change and you will be able to knock out bellows and get your revenge, but you need to work with Bello first. So going into the merge, I was pro bello all day. It was bello plus Caleb.

[00:35:26] And that is the only way we're going to be able to survive. And then Brissa time Caleb. And I was like, you know what I tried.

[00:35:34] There were some points on survivor news where Jack, he was critical of you because that's an analyst and like, you know, and me and Jack will go back and forth.

[00:35:46] And there were sometimes where Jack is like, I don't hate couture's game. I feel like there are times that couture gets information and she should hold it.

[00:35:56] But instead, he like people would feel like you would run and give the information up. Now, I always will kind of sort of fight for you.

[00:36:05] Because I would feel like not knowing your situation. But again, I need some agency somewhere. And although if I'm at the bottom of the line is here.

[00:36:16] I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm going to take a look at this. And I'm going to go over here and be at the bottom of this alliance, but maybe I could work with this alliance and knock these people off. And I'm like, you know what I mean? So, was that your theory of running and tell the information.

[00:36:33] And it's a loaded question. I remember one of them specifically was when Bruce told like about the fake idol. But I feel like this is the easy one because I feel like, you know, and Bruce like I'm this while I'm a do.

[00:36:44] That suck is later. I feel like it is a lot different. Yeah. So, um, I mean, I would say my theory, once I realized like, okay, working with Illinois isn't going to work. And it really was the Caleb vote when when everybody wrote Caleb's name down.

[00:37:07] And I knew that Bruce had told Reba, we're okay, we'll get rid of Caleb and then Reba jumped on. We're going to write down Caleb and then eventually Kelly Jake and I also were like, fuck, we got to write down Caleb too.

[00:37:18] When that happened and I was like, this is our critical number person. And we already sat down as a tribe and agreed, we need Caleb to go through.

[00:37:27] And then now we're giving up our key, not like we're starting the merge by giving up Caleb.

[00:37:35] It just felt like I can't work here at all. And so when I went to Reba, I was determined to say, what information that I get anything I can give you to show you my words don't just mean words, because I need a little bit of loyalty here.

[00:37:54] I need loyalty and honestly more than that, I need people that I can actually play the game with, even if it's on a play the game with me for a few votes.

[00:38:04] And then at some point I'm flipping and I'm trying to get you out. Let me at least have something that I can play with. I can't play with people who we got all that.

[00:38:14] I can't do it. I tried it like multiple times. And so if I got information that would help the people that I was working with. I absolutely wanted to offer that up.

[00:38:23] To me, information sharing is a way to say, we're connecting with each other. I'm going to let you know that really what I have is actually yours, because to me, there's nothing more important and survivor than trust and information.

[00:38:38] And if you withhold either of those things for me, I don't view you as an ally. I don't view you as we can work together no matter what you say.

[00:38:46] So if I have trust and I knew it from Caleb, that he felt that I wasn't ever able to give him enough for him to put me as a high alliance, right? I couldn't give as much as like a Kelly could give, because I didn't have any information.

[00:38:59] So I'm like, whatever I got, I'm going to show you, I'll give it to you. Now, I agree with the Bruce specific one where he was doing the fake Kelly idol or whatever thing I do. I didn't watch that. And I was like, damn, I should have like held that in a little bit longer and just see what people might say about it.

[00:39:16] But it's not a moment that I kick myself and there's definitely moments I kick myself, and that's not one of them, because it's also really, really unbelievable that Kelly would be Bruce's number one, and that she would walk out the door with his idol.

[00:39:31] And we all like talked about Kelly's blind side for so long and Kelly leaving. It was such a major like shift in the energy. And then what is it like two, three votes later Bruce would be like, oh, by the way, she took my idol, like it was so unbelievable anyway, like if she walked up door with your idol we would have heard about it that night

[00:39:50] or the next day or something like it wouldn't, it wouldn't have been believable. Nobody would have believed it.

[00:39:55] So, after he is out the game, what, what's your thought process, how you maneuver where do you, where do you see yourself, where are you aligned with who are your closest allies.

[00:40:06] Yeah, my closest people, I would say, starting from the Caleb vote out like the actual one the prize put all the way to until the end would be D and Julie.

[00:40:20] Yeah, those would be my closest people and then I would say next level Emily and I worked together and plotted a lot.

[00:40:26] And I knew D and Julie were connected closer to each other, first of all, than to me, and connected in more of a way with Reba, with the other Reba's than to me.

[00:40:38] I mean, we didn't fully know, I didn't fully know about the read before how strong it was all the way through, but at some point you're like okay cool these rivers are working together.

[00:40:46] Even with that, they were the only people that I was like, I can come to you and you can come to me and I can believe what you say, and we can plan stuff out and we plan multiple votes out together so there was clear trust and everything.

[00:40:59] When Bruce left my, my plan was just to start eventually turning towards Reba because I only needed bellows out that were the big bellows that were threatening to me.

[00:41:08] So I had to give Bruce, I had to get Kelly and then Kendra, but once they were gone, Jake was not a threat anymore because Jake had been erratic, any rational and kind of crazy like Jake was, you're going to probably get to the final three.

[00:41:23] Nobody was thinking about getting him out so after Bruce left Emily and I plan to get Julie, and that was the big plan, and I was like we got to get like we got to start hitting into this Reba.

[00:41:34] Everybody was on board with it, and then we freaking told Austin, and Austin told me, and me and Emily watch because the boys went on like a boister or some boys thing or whatever and it was like, oh, Drew was down.

[00:41:50] Me and Emily pulled in Drew were like, and see I felt good once Bruce was gone really there was no one on the entire tribe that I couldn't work with.

[00:41:58] There was no one who I could say, let's get this person out and they'd be like no, and I felt good about having created that. I was in a way better social position, and I would just look at who I wanted out next, and then I'd be like, I can get

[00:42:14] at least for my people here to agree or whoever is enough to agree, and it worked everybody that was voted out was I was like yep and that works for me and that works for me.

[00:42:24] Because my final three, my preferred final three when I realized I couldn't do Bruce was me Jake and Austin, because I thought Austin was number four of the Reba's me and Drew were one and two in terms of they were the most strategic.

[00:42:40] I knew I couldn't win sit in this ID and I couldn't win sit inside Drew, and I was like the next level is Julie, Julie.

[00:42:48] I'm in love with Julie, and she's got my heart seriously, deeply in love with you like all of us are like, we love.

[00:42:56] That's all I hear of, is that sentiment about Julie.

[00:42:59] I knew she had to go, and it was like Austin would be the only one that was left, and I didn't know about his advantages and stuff but I knew that he had this really soft because she spot in the game that he had sat in this Reba for Strong Alliance,

[00:43:16] that he had other people doing the major strategy and the physical stuff, and Austin kind of didn't pull the emotional string or the super strategic string for me either way, so I was like, this is my best case scenario.

[00:43:35] And yeah, so I will say, after Bruce, the next vote I think was me and Emily planned Julie and everybody got on board with it Austin told me and then Emily went home, which sucked, but I was like she had to go home anyway, I knew I couldn't sit inside Emily so I was like, that's

[00:43:52] cool, but okay cool that's a good, you know, and whittle it down, that was my plan whittle it all the way down until it's people only left who I can be, and when I get to the final three shotgun.

[00:44:05] Put your take on D, right? Because I see you said D and Drew and I could see that from a viewer, right? We like, she can't be the winner because it's too obvious. Like, you know, it seems like she really is running the show at Reba. And you saying that you had this very close relationship with D and Mama Tina, that is Julie.

[00:44:30] I know. What was your thoughts on D like when did you feel like with her ever point of time that you were like, she got to go? Or did you feel like you didn't have the numbers? Like, because they always had to go. I was never ever in the history of life planning to sit beside D the final three because D is like a surefire winner, but D did a really good job of managing her threat level where there were moments in the game where we were all like, it's got to be D's got to be D.

[00:44:59] And I just think you remember being in a group and people will be like, I don't know. It should be D right now. Let's do this person. Let's do this person. And all the other times there was this person, that person made sense.

[00:45:10] Again, it was like, this is a good idea. But my plan was never to take D to the end to like an ally like that. My plan was D shows me kindness and we connect and we strategize together.

[00:45:24] So D is going to ride this train with me because these not prioritizing getting me out. These logical, it doesn't make sense to give me out. I'm not a threat. I'm not a D.

[00:45:32] So it was like she'll stick with me and I'll be able to actually have somebody to work with and play the game with and say, yeah, let's get this person out together.

[00:45:40] And then when we get to a point where I can get D out, I'm getting D out first. My mistake. I never thought that we could get to a low number like final five or something.

[00:45:52] D still be there. And everybody not automatically say, yeah, we got to vote out D. It never occurred to me that we would get to like final five.

[00:46:03] And I would look at Austin and say, you got to vote out D and he would be like, I can't write her name.

[00:46:09] And I would look at Julie and say, D will win this game. If you don't vote out D and she would say, I know, and I still can't write her name.

[00:46:18] That blew me away. It still blows me away. That's why I give D all the credit because I'm like, how the hell you get them to do that?

[00:46:26] Two people saying that. It's insane. Insulation.

[00:46:31] That is amazing. That's the most amazing feat ever. And so it was like, that was my flaw. I didn't.

[00:46:38] I thought by the time we got there, I could look at whoever's left and they would all collectively say, get out the biggest threat.

[00:46:44] Get out the next making start book and go down the list to where now I'm just sitting beside people who are the lowest of the lowest threats.

[00:46:51] And see, that's the thing that I think confuses the most people that, you know, the keyboard warriors, right? Like that.

[00:46:59] Love the game. They have the branded knowledge of the game and they know every outcome of what this could be and what this could be.

[00:47:06] But I think that what people really forget at times is the human connection, right? Like it's the, yeah, you're going to go out there.

[00:47:14] You like, oh, I want to do this. But then it's like, then you fall in love with people or you like, you get these emotional connections.

[00:47:22] I know. I never could never connect so much where I'd say I'm handing you a million dollars.

[00:47:30] But just in that sense of what you said that I'm working with these, she worked with me, we're going to give each other information like I feel like that's what Julie and Austin fell right like.

[00:47:41] Of course. And so, but there's an end to it though, right? Like the goal is yes, but am I winning or I want you to win.

[00:47:51] So, I thought that was an amazing lesson to learn about the complexities of humans, right? And how like there are humans whose heart is that big.

[00:48:01] And honestly, I think that's what pulled me to be Julie and Austin because they, I knew they were genuine people.

[00:48:10] I was like, wow, these people are genuinely kind. They genuinely believe in niceness and kindness and I could use a little niceness and kindness.

[00:48:20] Yeah, it's, but again, but that's also why I love the game, right? Because you can't judge a book by its cover. You can't judge a survivor player by you don't know what you're going to get.

[00:48:33] Yeah, exactly. And honestly, I would say what I've learned is even survivor players don't know what they're going to get from themselves.

[00:48:40] Right. And so you're there. Yeah, you have no idea how you I was shocked at me. Like, I remember being out there and being like, what?

[00:48:49] This is how we're performing. You know, like, I was like, so you didn't win no challenge. No, I mean, I was like, I'm right.

[00:48:56] So I thought I was going to have to limit purpose when we lose challenges so that are the individual inside. I'm talking about so that people wouldn't view me as a physical threat.

[00:49:07] And I was like, I guess I don't even have to worry about that. I've got winning none of these challenges. I'm like, damn, it's like, you never know, you never know what's going to happen right out there.

[00:49:17] And honestly, that's why I say I don't really have anger or negative energy towards anybody on my cast. It's more like, we all got different things that happened to us while we were out there.

[00:49:29] Yeah, I think we all have things that hit you when you're stranded on an island alone with strangers by yourself with just your thoughts and your life experiences come into play.

[00:49:42] Yeah, it's, and you don't know what to do with them. You and you don't have a safe space and don't have a place to put them.

[00:49:49] It is a, I relate to that. And I feel that. I do want to talk about your decisions to kind of like flip a little when Jake came with this plan.

[00:50:05] You know, he played his idol for you and and walk us through that like what were you talking about the final five vote. Right. Okay. Okay.

[00:50:15] It did not start with Jake having a plan. It started with me being very frustrated that I couldn't get Julie to agree to vote at the end. I couldn't get Austin to vote at the end being like, I've got to go to Jake.

[00:50:30] This is the only option left, and me panicking a little bit and being like, Holy freak, am I not going to be able to get the out now because this is the critical vote. If she's not gone now.

[00:50:41] What was this all about? And I went to Jake and I was praying, and I tried to talk to him, and it took me hours hours, like all day to convince him that we had to vote out D instead of Julie.

[00:50:59] And he was so adamant about Julie, and I was like, Julie Julie Julie Julie, and I was like.

[00:51:05] This is the person who I have been feeling every single time you came to me with the plan.

[00:51:11] I didn't think strategically that plan made the most sense, even though Jake had his own big move reasons for it.

[00:51:18] I never really intellectually liked his plans. I thought it was a bad call to tell me about the ring roost and then say, do you want to do a one in three chance of going to rocks at final 12.

[00:51:30] I wouldn't have done that. That just doesn't seem like a good way to do that. I didn't think it made sense for him to say, don't tell D about us trying to get out drew, and we'll have three and three split of the votes.

[00:51:41] And then maybe, you know, I'll stand up and something which and I'm like, no, you can just tell D should definitely want to get drew out four votes easy breezy. So we have this history of moments where I'm like, I don't think that where you think things should go works for where I think she thinks

[00:51:57] she should go. But this is my last hope, and I've got to convince you. And it took a while, but his credit, he definitely came around, he was like, you're right, get D out now, we'll get Julie out at four. And I was like, cool, because I told him D is the biggest threat.

[00:52:12] Once D is gone, the only threats are Julie and Austin. Austin will kill it in fire, no matter who we put him against. And Austin will say, I got to get Julie out at four, and he will take Julie out and fire.

[00:52:24] That's the most logical thing that happened. Austin's not going to be like, I got a tour or J out instead of Julie.

[00:52:30] And so I was like, Austin will take her out and then me and you'll get a free ride to the final three.

[00:52:35] This is the plan that works for both of us. And so he got on board and he was like, okay, let's do D.

[00:52:40] But I, I'm looking at him and I'm like, something's up.

[00:52:46] Something's off, he's hiding something. He's lying about something. And he was kind of, I don't know, maybe not fidgety physically, but like energetically, if that makes sense.

[00:52:59] And I felt like I couldn't get him and I was literally like this, like this close, I was literally almost like we're kissing because I'm getting kept getting that close to him and being like, let me look at your eyes.

[00:53:10] I'm not getting the reassurance. I need to feel like you agree with this plan and the plan hinges on you being on board with the plan.

[00:53:20] And so he eventually was like couture. I promise you like I got it. And I was like, swear it on something, because that's how desperate I was to believe him. I wanted to believe him.

[00:53:32] To me, it was like, Jake has your life in his hands. And I got the feeling, I said to myself, I said, he's going to try some big move.

[00:53:42] He's going to try to do something that he thinks of that is not standard way of being, but that will be a big move and that'll be flashy and it's going to backfire on me.

[00:53:52] And I said, I bet he's going to try to get me out.

[00:53:55] And that's what I was thinking, because I was like, now he knows that Julie will go out at four. And that's who he thinks is the biggest threat.

[00:54:04] He's going to come after me.

[00:54:06] So, but too long, Linda.

[00:54:10] No, no, no, because you know me now I want to know. So, okay, so now I got it. That's like, okay, clearly that that's why you would switch. What was the internal monologue given when he then stood up and was like, I'm going to play this

[00:54:28] for you. Did you still feel like he's trying to pull the, like, what were you like, I should have kept my vote like, or was it like, at that very moment.

[00:54:38] And that, in that moment, I felt two things. Immediately when he played his idol for me, I felt shock, because I walked into tribal so sure that his big move was they were all going to vote for me.

[00:54:53] And I knew that he was going to vote for me, because Jay, which I, another thing that I was like, I don't understand why you would do that, had told Austin about his idol.

[00:55:03] And so I'm like, to me, if you want to make a big move with an idol, you don't tell anybody about your idol, unless it's, I'm telling just you, we make in this plan at five, right.

[00:55:14] And I was like, so the fact that you already told them about your idol, Austin's 100,000% on tell D about your idol, and then these 100,000% on tell Julie, that's the whole drive.

[00:55:25] So the power of the idol is now significantly less. And so because everybody knew he had an idol, D was no longer going to vote for him. I had D and Julie both going to vote for Jake.

[00:55:37] But once they knew Jake had an idol, D was like, I can't vote for Jake. You know she's not voting for Austin, who else has left, Katura.

[00:55:47] So I knew D would write me now because D is a game player, it's just, it's the strategy is what's the natural next step. And I said she'll probably convince Julie to do it.

[00:55:58] And so that's true for me already Julie's gonna follow D's lead. Austin, I knew he had been really wanting Julie, which is why I knew if we got D up at five Austin to get out at court.

[00:56:10] But Austin really wanted Julie so I was like D and Julie will vote for me. Austin will vote for Julie, and that means I have two votes against me if Jake votes for me I'm out.

[00:56:23] Like it's and it hinges on Jake, believing me and being reasonable and us working together and me trusting him. And I had 24 days of that never having happened.

[00:56:34] And so as soon as he play his idol for me, I was shocked because I was so convinced I was going home already. And then at tribal council D starts sobbing.

[00:56:46] And she's like I'm just shaking up because I know who's going home. All the cars pointed to couture going home. It didn't point to Julie going home. That was that was so logical of Julie going home that time, it would have been either the big threat D or the easy vote couture at that time.

[00:57:04] So she's stopping and she's crying and mind you me indeed do have this relationship we have been getting closer and closer. I'm thinking she's crying about me.

[00:57:13] And the panic is increasing. I'm like going home. D knows it makes the most sense because she's got her heart connected to Austin and Julie. I'm the only option.

[00:57:23] So I'm panicking. And when he plays his idol, I'm thinking to myself, Oh my God, my life is safe. And then I'm like, what he played.

[00:57:34] So he, you know what I mean. And then that's when everything hit. And by the time Jeff snuff Julie's torch. My internal monologue said, and it wasn't even internal. I said it out loud. Fuck, I lost the game.

[00:57:48] I lost the game. I lost the game when Julie's torch got snuffed. And I knew it. And I felt it then. And I every part of how it and why it happened made sense. And I saw it all. It was like watching a disaster in front of your eyes.

[00:58:03] And I was like, I see the car crash happening. And it sucked. But I was also like, why would you not tell me you were going to play your idol for me like immediately went from shock to Oh my God, I see what happened.

[00:58:18] And I'm pissed because it was like what would be the reason. And then it was like, this is it. This was his great big move that I knew he was going to try to play. I just was wrong about what it was going to be.

[00:58:30] And that's again, something that if you would have said to me, I'm going to do all of this to make sure I could just play my idol for you. I'd be like, that is a terrible idea unless I know about it.

[00:58:41] Because when you are so short, you are going home.

[00:58:47] is so deep. It is, I admit, I fell into fear. I fully accept it. I was terrified. And I was like,

[00:58:57] if you did all of that surviving just to get here and go home now, and you have the ability to change

[00:59:03] it, you know Austin's gonna vote for Julie. All you have to do is write down Julie and you know,

[00:59:06] for a fact, at least Julie's going home. And at least you get to survive another day. You can

[00:59:12] figure it out then. You can figure it out at four. That wasn't the plan A, and it may or may not work,

[00:59:18] but you can do it your couture. You can figure it out at four. Maybe you'll win Final Four. And

[00:59:22] this was literally what I was telling myself. But it doesn't matter if you're not here.

[00:59:26] None of it matters if you go home tonight. Now in hindsight, I realized I was in survival mode.

[00:59:34] I was in survival mode and I should have been thinking it doesn't matter if Jake is against

[00:59:41] me and they all vote for me and I go home because this is the move I have to do to win the game

[00:59:47] anyway. I thought I was slipping into and now we're in win mode. And because of all of that that

[00:59:54] happened, I found myself right back in survival mode. It's so crazy, right? Because just in that

[01:00:02] moment, right? Like I always was like, girl, what you doing? This story makes me think about

[01:00:08] when I went home, right? When you played a game, right? I think sometimes I don't believe when

[01:00:13] they say like, you have to play to win, right? Like and the reality of it is though, when you play

[01:00:18] to win, guess what? You might go home, but exactly. And that's like, that's rolling the dice, right?

[01:00:25] You got to play the win, but also playing a win, get your behind, send home, non times out of 10,

[01:00:31] but you got to play to win. And so for me, my very first Tribal Council, I knew that they were

[01:00:38] targeting me. I knew that we were splitting votes. Alexis, I knew that she was serving me. And I'm

[01:00:42] like, girl, why are you coming from me? You're my close person. Now, if I was playing the win,

[01:00:48] I'd have been like, they dumb. They told me that they're splitting the votes. Sorry, Morgan,

[01:00:53] girl, better you than me. Right? Exactly. But I survived remote. So it really is.

[01:01:03] We're a cloud. Good judgment. It does. That's why people freeze in the moment. It's months now

[01:01:08] afterwards. You know what I mean? I look at my bank account constantly. I know it ain't gonna

[01:01:12] have all them zeros in it. You know, I've accepted what it is. But I said to say, time has passed.

[01:01:19] And trust me, I beat myself up over it for a minute. Coming right out the game,

[01:01:25] you don't see it on TV. I haven't watched it. I don't really know exactly how it aired. I just

[01:01:30] have the version in my head. And the version in my head says, what did you do? And I'm like,

[01:01:35] you this close. So when I first came back, I was like, okay, okay, you know what I mean? Like,

[01:01:40] it was a lot to process. I get that. But now I've seen it air. I've seen all the other sides to it.

[01:01:48] I still know my own part. And I remember my feelings of fear. And I do not beat myself up

[01:01:54] about it, because I can't. Like, what can I say? How dare my survival instinct not kick in?

[01:02:01] Or whatever it is, I got the ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. It's very loud. And it's even louder

[01:02:07] when I'm dealing with someone who has excluded me, who has been untrustworthy before, who has

[01:02:13] lied to me to my face multiple times. Like, I already have my guard up of, can I even really trust

[01:02:19] you? And I wish that it didn't kick in. I wish you didn't. But it did. And I can't get mad at me

[01:02:27] for defaulting to the girl that has saved herself a hundred times.

[01:02:33] And that will have to save herself when this game ends. And I go back into my real life. Like,

[01:02:38] I feel like I feel what you putting down. And so there's also just a battle of trying to explain

[01:02:47] to a particular audience that will never understand it, right? Like, and so it's like,

[01:02:53] what actually is the point here? And so I made my piece with it. Right. It is.

[01:02:58] At the end of the day, no one is going to be more upset that I didn't win a million dollars than me.

[01:03:04] What was the feeling like when Miss Cia said, let me give out this year's money. And what,

[01:03:11] what was that? Like, how was it? Because I was, sometimes I forget that Cia gives out the money,

[01:03:16] right? Like, I don't even think about it. I just happen to go online. I'm like, oh, see,

[01:03:21] give it up. Look at my girl, cut to her. What was that like seeing that?

[01:03:27] Well, I never forgot that Cia gave out the money. I was thinking about it a lot.

[01:03:31] But I didn't think that I would be the one that she picked. And certainly not the main one,

[01:03:39] the big one that she that she picked. And so when she called me, she called me after the finale,

[01:03:45] like the day after the finale. And, you know, I got eliminated in the finale. So I got to exit

[01:03:50] press and I'm doing all of that stuff. And all of a sudden I get this video call from Cia.

[01:03:56] And I am like, no, no. And she talked to me, I got to, I'm going to have to make a whole video about it,

[01:04:06] too. I'll put it on you too. But I remember the moment that she was like, I resonate with your

[01:04:15] story. Now this is, she said, I watched your journey and I can tell you've been doing the work.

[01:04:20] And that was so powerful to me. But I really did work hard to be

[01:04:25] a person that I would be comfortable seeing on TV. A person that other people who look like me or

[01:04:32] have similar experiences to me, could see and be like, I'm proud of that. And so when she said

[01:04:36] that I was just like, Oh my God, you know, and then she was like, I just want to let you know

[01:04:41] you're my favorite player. I'm giving you the big one. How? How? No graceful. I'm so

[01:04:48] grateful. And again, I feel like it's just a testament to like in the midst of our storms,

[01:04:53] like we don't know what a blessing we can be to other people. And sometimes that internal dialogue

[01:05:00] is like, Oh, but they don't like us. They don't see us. You have the world. You have a lot of

[01:05:05] people hating. But I really feel like a part of your story. I feel like your story is bigger than

[01:05:10] the survivor, right? I feel like it's a part of your story. And I feel like survivor was

[01:05:15] freeing for you, right? I think, you know, it revealed some deep things that I'm sure you don't

[01:05:21] reveal to many people often. But also, like you said, it's like a weight lifted, right? Like,

[01:05:27] I'm not carrying that. And I think that the Sia giving you or acknowledging you in that way was

[01:05:33] like the universe being like, absolutely, you're doing the work, you're inspiring people. You may

[01:05:38] not see it right away. But there are people that understand and see themselves in you.

[01:05:44] That's exactly what it felt like. It felt like the ultimate universal validation. And I had

[01:05:49] already been starting to feel that way during the season airing, because after I had my panic attack

[01:05:55] episode and the no contact episode, and then the, well, I feel like there was some of those,

[01:06:01] oh, then my backstory episode, it was just like, boom, boom, boom, boom. I started getting people

[01:06:06] sharing their personal stories with me and saying, oh my God, I've had issues with going no contact

[01:06:13] with a parent. I did XYZ random activity that I do all the time. And I feel really strong and able

[01:06:20] to do it. And then suddenly I had a panic attack and I couldn't do it. I totally get that feeling.

[01:06:24] You know, I have people resonating with me. I've had religious trauma. I've been deprived of

[01:06:29] education and all these different ways where I have been thinking my story was so specific.

[01:06:35] And so unique that no one else is going to be able to identify with this. I was 10 years old,

[01:06:42] pulled out of school, thrown in a coat, and just prepared for marriage and babies

[01:06:47] and working my whole life. That was the goal. And everybody was on board with it, and that was

[01:06:52] the thing. And you didn't do it. You're going to hell and die. And that was my normal. That was my

[01:06:59] Tuesday. That was my every day of my life. And from the moment I was, I don't know, I feel like

[01:07:06] talking. I'm just raising people's babies and preparing for my own babies and working 13, 14,

[01:07:12] 15 hour days. Like, that was my life. And I look at where it is now. And I think, oh my God,

[01:07:20] that was so crazy. No one could possibly get the chaos, the pain, the turmoil, the what the

[01:07:29] fact or the people around me thinking, what traumas are they dealing with for this to be normal,

[01:07:35] right? All of the things that go into that. And then in fact, so many people did. They didn't

[01:07:41] have the exact story, but they had big elements of it. And so I just feel like I have to keep

[01:07:47] sharing my story. I was already feeling that. And then Cia just kind of confirmed it and just

[01:07:53] made it even more special. You know what I mean? Like, that's the best gift anybody can give me.

[01:07:56] But to know that she did it because she felt connected to me, you know what I mean?

[01:08:04] That was powerful. And I had a lot of people being like, Oh, couture didn't have the best

[01:08:08] game. See, it's in the game a tour. And I was like, I don't care. He gave it to me because

[01:08:15] something about me as a human resonated with her as a human. That is crazy powerful. I will take

[01:08:21] that any day. Of course, the game is to win a million dollars. But I think that along the journey,

[01:08:26] there's just so much more that we can gain from it. And I think that that's a testament

[01:08:32] to your journey to your story. I also feel like there was a moment Tuesday at the karaoke party

[01:08:39] where it was you, me and Sabaya and like I happened to walk by. And we all just kind of like touched

[01:08:46] each other. And we were like, look at us. And mind you, I was all being so busy. You was like,

[01:08:51] no, Bryce, wait, come head is moment with us real quick. Like, we see like, do we see this circle of

[01:08:58] like these black queers and are living their best life and here together all because of this show

[01:09:06] with like, that was just such a moment that I was like, so powerful. It's so powerful. And that's why

[01:09:14] I say, I love like, I loved it before. And now it's given me so much. I remember the exact moment

[01:09:21] you're talking about. And I remember just being like, you don't get to just be black and queer

[01:09:26] and not have stories. You know, it just feels good. And I'm like, we have to acknowledge those moments.

[01:09:32] We talked about like doing this podcast and I felt like we were sending these notes back and forth.

[01:09:36] We were like, you know, we wanted it to be something. And you know, just just a moment for us. And it's

[01:09:42] like, that us having that conversation, I was like, Oh, this is going to be special. Like, I want to

[01:09:47] can't wait to have this conversation. But was I not prepared for the conversation? Like,

[01:09:53] you know what I mean? Like, I thought I just yeah, I appreciate you. I see you.

[01:10:00] I knew that this would be special. But again, I didn't I just didn't know where the journey was

[01:10:04] going to take us. And I'm so happy that we just have this journey. Yeah. So landed, though, I just

[01:10:10] want to know, um, survivor, second chance to season two. Hey, couture, what's up, girl? You

[01:10:18] available? What's your response? Maybe the bag is already packed. I am ready. I'm praying. I

[01:10:28] hope so. I really, really hope so. So now I'm not supposed to land this plane. If your answer is

[01:10:33] yes, what I knew it would be yes. Of course. How are we showing up? What like, is what is there

[01:10:40] a wet like? I am so, um, mentally checked in to what I would want to show up like if I were ever

[01:10:57] call it back, which would be crazy. I'm sorry. That's a cut off. Is the survivor player

[01:11:01] in her right? Because exactly very coded in a sense of life. You're not going to get what I

[01:11:07] want to get that. You can get everything that happened before, but you're not going to get my

[01:11:13] plan going for it back into my remote. Okay. No, no, no, no, no. I'm, yeah, no, I'm already

[01:11:24] thinking about it. I mean, because I came so close. Come on. Now you came that close. You want to

[01:11:30] try? You want to try and be your best. Yeah. And lastly, I will say you came that close is what

[01:11:36] you're saying. However, from a, uh, a young black queer, uh, almost came a decade before you

[01:11:47] and was out way before you. Um, my sentiment isn't you didn't almost just come that close.

[01:11:54] My sentiment is since you did it, right? Like you, you, you played a game and it's not,

[01:12:00] you might not have one, but baby. Yeah. You bust the door open. Okay. You, like, you did your

[01:12:07] thing. So I also, I get it. I don't have those experiences. So I understand that. But from my

[01:12:14] perspective and a lot of other people's perspectives, girl, you did it. So I also just want you to

[01:12:21] think that receives that. Yeah. You're right. I appreciate that. You're right. I mean,

[01:12:27] I receive it. It comes and goes on. I can't lie. There are mamas. I'm like, hey and mamas

[01:12:35] where I'm like, okay, but damn. And it's crazy that it happened. Oh, we're going to ride just

[01:12:42] podcast. Thank you so much. Cause Laura, listen, this your first time, but this

[01:12:51] definitely won't be your last time. Thank you. I loved it. It was so wonderful. Thank you for

[01:12:56] having me. It was a pleasure. All right. Thank you guys. We're out.

[01:13:02] It's a purple pants. It's a purple pants. It's a purple pants pie cash. You better get your headphones and listen up quick. It's a purple pants pie cash. You better get that box wide. It's a purple pants pie cash. You're trying to get your snack. You better hurry right back. Go. It's a purple pants.