Why ___ Lost: Survivor 48 Ep 5 with Liz Wilcox

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[00:00:30] This is why blank lost. And this is why blank lost. Oh baby, this is why blank lost.

[00:00:48] Welcome back to Why Blank Lost. I'm David Bloomberg and I did not lose my vote. So I definitely will have an impact on today's podcast. Joining me as always is of course my co-host Jessica Lewis, who also has a vote as far as I know, unless she just hasn't told me she lost it. But I'm her closest ally. So she should tell me, except in the cases when she should.

[00:01:12] Which maybe that shouldn't even be a problem that anyone has to discuss and think about because it shouldn't happen in the first place. Maybe. Thank you for setting me off immediately at the start of this podcast. So wait a minute, Jessica, are you saying you're pissed? Because as video viewers can already see, we are joined by returning special guest Liz Wilcox from Survivor 46.

[00:01:35] What's up, ho bags? Fantastic introduction. I love this. Mm hmm. That was great. David does a great job. You guys should leave him five stars. Yes. See? Liz knows why we bring her back on. Oh yeah. Very entertaining. I love this. It's gonna be a good time. So Liz, we of course talked to you last season. How have things been going since then?

[00:02:04] Things have been going really well. I feel like I'm on my healing journey of Survivor. You know, I've been meeting a lot of fans. David and I met in person probably about a year ago. And one thing he said to me that I thought was really kind, he said, oh, you're really good with the fans. Like you pay a lot of attention. And that's something that I love. And I didn't think about when I went on Survivor, like, you know, the aftermath of it.

[00:02:31] And, you know, I went on for very selfish reasons, but I'm finding the more I can pour into the community, the more I'm, you know, letting go of all those what ifs, what ifs, what ifs. And just focusing on, you know, oh, my aunt and I used to listen or watch this show. And, you know, you being a part of it keeps that alive. And it's like, that's super cool. So I'm actually doing super, super great. I'm very excited about tonight.

[00:03:02] That's so great. Good. That's excellent. So for people who may be tuning in for the first time, what we do here is we compare what the player who was voted out did in the game to my rules for winning that I originally wrote way back in season. Well, after season one and have been updating ever since it was a long time ago. We use all the non-spoiler information available to us from what we saw on TV, interviews, social media and secret scenes.

[00:03:30] And the newest published version of the rules can be found at our dedicated page. Rob has website dot com slash YX lost feed. And then you just look on the bubble for Survivor rules. But before we talk about how Bianca did in terms of the rules, we always have some other things to discuss from the episode. And I think it I think it's obvious where we need to start. Everybody. Get the Kleenex. You can't see it. It's there.

[00:03:59] Oh, I thought I was going to say the milk scene. Well, I know that is there that is almost as touching as as the Eva and Joe scene. And we will get. Oh, yeah, I forgot about that. Yeah. About that scene. I haven't even seen that posted anywhere. It's no, no. It's been rather silent. Right. Oh, yeah.

[00:04:27] I didn't rush to post it right away, along with like everybody else on the Internet. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they they made millions of people cry, including Jeff, you know, and in a huge moment that showed the human element of the game. Not to mention that Joe is a true hero and emphasizing what I said a few weeks ago that Eva knew what she was doing when she decided to pick him as the one to tell about. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:56] Well, did you see the the little interview that she and Joe were able to do where she described why she chose him, which? Yes. It really tells you so much about what you say when you play the game of Survivor matters so much because you have no idea what people will focus on and what they will base their decisions on.

[00:05:16] And the fact that he introduced himself and his world to his new castmates as I love being a father, she said, OK, that's the one right there. That's very similar to how Liz introduced herself by saying, I love being a millionaire. I love money. It's over for you. How bags? We're off to a rough start, right? They definitely. Me and my survivor journey. No, I didn't.

[00:05:46] I didn't actually watch that. But I saw it and I was like, wait, what? They're allowed to do an interview? Strange, right? Yeah. I thought. Right. So, you know, I have my own feelings about that. But like I said, I'm on my healing journey. I'm going to let it go because, you know, Survivor is a TV show. I get it. I mean, yeah, they usually have one midseason interview.

[00:06:12] Dalton and Mike usually talk to one person midseason. It is fairly common. I think that's a newer thing. Yeah. I think last season they talked to Andy midseason, for example. Yeah. I think they talked to Hunter on our season. And I was like, what? Whoever's, you know, popular. Sure. I mean, you know, I mean, they got they got. I saw coverage of this on CNN. I saw it on. Wow. Oh, I didn't see it on CNN. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:43] So it was it was all over the place. Now, related to everything that happened, because we obviously don't need to go into all of it. Lots of people have. Lots of people have seen it. Mm hmm. But related to it, a question has come up on social media about why players are not normally allowed to go from their mat to another tribe's mat after a challenge. It feels to me like a newer rule, because I would swear we have seen people in olden

[00:07:12] times cross paths with other tribes and even hand things off after a challenge. Oh, Boston Rob. Her. Yeah. Loves Boston Rob. He did that after a challenge. Yeah. And I know I've seen it certainly on Australian Survivor, which I know they have their own set of rules. But Liz, do you have a feel why they have this rule? Was it explained to you? Is it to prevent interactions that might impact the game or something else? Yeah. So this is from my memory.

[00:07:41] And obviously, I played at the time of this recording almost two years ago. Right. A lot has happened. But I believe that it was it was for a camera purpose. They said, you know, you come in and Jessica, they probably explained it to you to come in, stay on the mat, short people in the front, you know, taller people in the back. Look. And, you know, Jeff's pointing. He's like, look at the cameras. Like, we need you to stand. Don't move beyond this.

[00:08:11] So I don't think it was ever explicitly like, don't you dare go over to that other person's mat. But it was just I mean, even when you go to tribal for the first time, they're like, hey, here's the camera. Make sure you sit up really tall. You know, if you're hunched over, make sure you're not hitting your mic. You know, if your mic's clipped here, don't be doing this to your chest. You know, so I felt like it was more of a production rule than what David just said about, you know,

[00:08:38] we don't want, you know, inter-tribal interference or whatever. Yeah, I think there's a bit of also fear that is built into the players because you don't know what you can and cannot do. And so you're very much like, what am I allowed to do? OK, I have to stand here. OK, what do I have to do? Because we don't know. It's not it is certainly not scripted. And you're just being told when you walk in, you're going to stand there. But you still have no idea what's going on.

[00:09:07] And so there is this bit of like, I don't know what I'm allowed to do. Even the first tribal council that I went to, I asked Jeff if it was OK if I drank water. And he was like, oh, yeah, this is your tribal council. You can do what you want. And I'm like, OK. But you just have this like concern because you're not sure. And it is overwhelming because looking at the cameras, there's a lot of cameras. There's a lot of people. And you don't expect to see this wall of cameras in front of you when you get to a challenge.

[00:09:36] But it's there. So, yeah, I think it's it is also a combination of production, which I think is an incredibly missed point in all of this. Right. That they are they do have to put on a TV show. But then also like you just have no idea what you're doing as a player and what you're allowed to do and not allowed to do. And you don't want to do something that you're not supposed to do because there is this massive amount of rules that you read before you went out. And Liz, did you really remember any of them by the time you got out there? Like all of the things in the contract?

[00:10:06] Yeah, no, I didn't read that. No, but I do. I do remember now that Jessica is talking that, you know, at the end of a challenge and even as a viewer, you can see this. It's like, get on your mat, get on your mat. And I assume that's a production thing so they can get the celebration shot. Right. Sure. Especially to Jessica's point. I don't know what to do. So I'm just screaming right here. Oh, shit. No, I got to get on my mat. I got to get with my team, my tribe. Right.

[00:10:32] So I'm assuming it's all to produce an actual TV show with great shots of, you know, all five, six or, you know, in the case of Lula, three people, you know. So, yay. And then I do believe they, Jeff, or, you know, if there was somebody else, you know, saying when you're, if you win, just stay on your mat. But I always assumed it was a production thing, right? Like they don't want you standing in the background or getting in the way of someone that's still participating in the challenge. True.

[00:11:03] Yeah. Okay. Okay. And that's, that is a good point too, because they, they certainly do not want you to interrupt another person so that I know that there is kind of a touching rule in that regard about touching other players. So perhaps that's part of it as well. Yeah. They had great sight lines for the camera on, you know, right over Eva doing the ball maze and Joe just standing there staring at her. I mean, those were perfect. Yeah. Yeah. They really were.

[00:11:32] Yeah. It was a, it was a, it was a really incredible moment. The way that they captured it, like you said, those shots were just amazing because you really did get to see what he was feeling. And my gosh, I, I, that look just told a thousand stories just right there. I mean, if you had any question about where Joe's loyalty is lying, that's the look and you know exactly where it is.

[00:12:00] And so that I, I just feel is, I know we're going to talk about it could potentially be a problem for Joe and Eva down the road a bit. Yeah. Give me a minute on that. Cause first I want to mention, uh, speaking of the moment's impact of on the game, uh, I thought the domino effect it had within Eva's tribe was very interesting because okay, you start with her and star had been against each other since essentially the start, but

[00:12:29] Eva opening up led to star feeling closer to her, which led to star telling them all about the beware advantage, which led to all of them helping her get the letters, which led to her former rival, Eva opening the cylinder, which led to star telling Eva to keep the idol. So I mean, just this whole row of dominoes falls down. And not a good set of dominoes to be falling down. I don't, I don't agree with, with much of what transpired there.

[00:12:59] I just don't, I just don't. Same. Yeah. I was yelling at my TV star. We were rooting for you. We were all rooting for you. Cause star seems super dope. Like she seems really cool. Um, but I don't know the way that transpired. And I had this feeling out there on the Island for sure, you know, here and there, not it wasn't always, but sometimes it'd be like, gosh, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm in over my head. And you know, then something would just happen.

[00:13:29] Right. And then it would be like, well, I guess this is the way I'm going. And I felt like that was a moment for star where she just got so caught up, like so inspired, which would not have been my reaction first of all, but she was so inspired by the moment that she literally couldn't help herself. But I have a feeling she went to bed that night and thought, was that the right thing to do?

[00:13:54] I mean, to me, honestly, I think it ends up being the right thing for her because like everyone knew she had a beware advantage that she could not solve. Well, and that's, that is a fair point. That is definitely a fair point. I do. You don't want to go to merge being the person who has a beware advantage and no vote because, okay, you're the easy one to pick off then, I think.

[00:14:22] So, I mean, I think that she removed some of the threat on her. And also made a new, made at least one new ally, if not more within that tribe. Um, so I think, I think it ends up being a positive. I'm not saying I would recommend it as a general thing, but I think it ends up being a positive. Well, if anything, that idol has certainly lost a whole lot of its worth because everyone

[00:14:49] in the tribe, except maybe three people at this point know about it. And because you had all of stars previous. Right. Knowing about it. Now you have this group knowing about it. And now it's like everybody's idol, it sounds like. So it, it's going to be interesting to see how it could potentially be played in a way that is going to benefit all of them. It's not going to. Yeah.

[00:15:16] If I was Eva, I would make a fake idol and pretend to burn it. Yeah. Literally. I like that idea. Yeah. Or something like I'd have to get rid of it, but I wouldn't actually want to get rid of it. So I wouldn't do some sort of, you know. Ritual. Star inspired public seance. I don't, I don't know. It seems like it's like, have you guys ever watched or read the diary of a wimpy kid?

[00:15:45] There's a stinky cheese on the tarmac and it's like, oh, you can't touch it. Then you've got this, you've got the stench or whatever. And it's just melted. I feel like that's the idol or it could be like, oh, I don't want it. I don't want it. I don't want you to know. Everyone knows about it. That's how I would feel. I would be like, oh, great. I have an idol. But again, I would put my head down and I'd be like, oh shit. I have an idol. Yeah. If I'm Eva, I'm like, no, thank you, star here. I did that for you.

[00:16:14] You can have that back. That's like, that's the response. Yeah, exactly. I don't want this because everybody does know about it. And even Eva pretended like she didn't know that she had the beware advantage, but Joe had told Eva. So yeah, he was like, he was like, you're such a good liar. So yeah, I mean, if I'm Eva in that moment, I don't want that idol. I don't want it.

[00:16:41] I mean, the whole just public display of everything that went on in that moment. Good for her for opening it, but then be like, nope, star, this is yours. I helped you out, but you can have that back because yes, I don't want the stinky cheese. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You know, maybe Jessica can attest to this, but I found that, especially in the early part of the game, there were a lot of like awkward moments, right? Like, do I talk like, oh, I just feel kind of awkward. I don't know what to say. Oh, are you guys talking?

[00:17:09] You know, before you get real comfortable and you just tell them off to their face. Right. Is that just me? But this felt like such an awkward moment. Right. Like the whole thing, like even star, you know, like getting out of her chair. Well, she ain't got no chair, but you know what I'm saying? And like, and then them running around, I'm like, I would be side eyeing everyone. Like, is this survivor? What is going on? What are we doing?

[00:17:38] When did it become like a field trip? And everyone is. And I also, for people who might know the Goonies movie, I don't know if you're familiar with Goonies, but one of my favorite movies, the little piece of paper that they have to use to figure out the letters just keeps reminding me of Goonies because they had to like line up the map, like this map with the islands. And every time I see it, I'm like Goonies.

[00:18:08] Could have been inspired by that. Who knows? It could have very well been, but it was, it was definitely not the survivor that I'm accustomed to wanting to watch where it's this kumbaya. Everybody worked together this moment. I'm not talking about the other moment. The other moment was something different, but like the sharing of all of the information and the suddenly star saying, I just need to come clean and I want to tell everybody.

[00:18:32] Yeah, that's, that is, it was a very strange way to see survivor being played. I mean, maybe, maybe it's the 4d chess type of thing, you know, who knows? Who knows? Maybe it was just a genuine, too many genuine moments. I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, that the milk got to bring that up again. Yeah. Yes. Well, let's just go to the milk because yeah, all of that was not the only emotional connection.

[00:19:02] Um, because there was a huge emotional moment of David reuniting with his one true love. Milk. Dairy beverages. Yes. The best milk he's ever had. Listen, David, if you're watching, I'll buy you some milk, baby. We can go to the ice cream parlor, you know, whatever you want, you know, bring it on.

[00:19:30] I thought I enjoyed that scene. I think the survivor editors enjoyed making that scene, too. Look, maybe not single for three years. I really enjoyed that scene. Goodness. Listen, David, I'll help Liz out on this one. I'll get you both some milk. You can join together and have a good time. Yeah. I'll treat you to some milk.

[00:19:59] Now it's a date. Okay. Yay. Maybe I'll make you some cookies. If you were on your season, Jessica, he could have milk delivered by drone. Oh, gosh. Yeah. That was a whole thing, wasn't it? Those Gen X jokes and. Yes. Yes. That's funny. Yeah. But the whole sanctuary, I thought that was really cool.

[00:20:27] Now, have we in the new era done a pre-merged sanctuary? I don't remember it, but you're talking to the two people who don't do trivia very well? No. Okay. Well, I'm going to go out and, you know, chat. GPT can correct me later. I don't think we've seen that. Yeah, that's interesting. I think it's always been gone. You know, take it back to camp. Yeah. So the sanctuary is leaking, y'all. The sanctuary is leaking.

[00:20:55] It is coming into the pre-merge. Had to get that milk. They just had to make it happen. So. Yes. My boy. Nope. Maybe it'll be Applebee's after the merge. Maybe they'll switch it up. So. Listen, I'm expecting Applebee's because 47 did not have Applebee's. Yeah, because it's an even season. So I'm expecting it. And there better be fireworks because these people saw it.

[00:21:25] And, you know, I want to see something wild. You want to see something more than the milk. Yes. I want to see somebody pouring the bourbon sauce on themselves. With the chef of Applebee's, which I'm pretty sure it's like the head chef comes out. That's what I heard. My mouth is legitimately watering.

[00:21:52] No, I want to see someone drizzling like the milkshake into their mouth. Like, like stars just. We are changing Survivor completely with this one podcast. This is a completely new show. Yeah. And other people are like, when are they getting to the rules? What's all this about? Right. They're like, wait, this is good stuff. What are you talking about? David and his and his milk obsession. I love it. The other David, not me. The other David.

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[00:22:52] ...the... ...the... ...Iva and Joe situation. Okay, yes. Sorry. Because we are primarily a strategy podcast. Yes, I'm sorry. No, no, no. That's okay. Go on. Um, I... ...I do have to bring up... ...that while this was a huge emotional moment... ...great from a human level... Yes. ...it will also... ...almost certainly impact the way other players think about Joe and Eva. Oh, gosh, yeah. ...because putting aside that human element...

[00:23:22] ...everyone else there... ...should realize... ...hey, we need to split those two up fairly early in the merge. Yeah. Literally. ...y'all. And, you know, Jeff even brought up the game aspect of it. And, you know, Bianca... ...while she, of course, won't be able to do anything about it... ...she mentioned in her interviews... ...that she had that thought running through her mind... ...while she was still in the game. Now, I do think...

[00:23:50] ...because I think players these days are somewhat social media savvy... ...I think people will give it a minute... ...for the moment to fade... ...so they don't get eviscerated on social media. Yeah. ...but... ...I think it will come up... ...and probably happen within a few episodes. I don't disagree. And I do think that... ...this is something that happens when you are actually out there...

[00:24:18] ...processing something going down, right? There was one challenge that we were at... ...that David didn't want to participate in. He was like, I can't do it anyway. He was trying to just, like, basically do everyone a favor. Like, you don't want me... Oh, yeah. I remember that one. Remember that? Yeah. And all of a sudden everyone was like, no, David, you can do it. And we're all kind of, like, building him back up... ...and trying to make him feel better. And I remember standing there... ...even though I was supporting him going... ...and this guy's got to go. Because it was like...

[00:24:47] ...it was too much of a heartfelt thing. And you could see how the other players felt about him. And it was... ...there was a connection. They genuinely cared. And in the back of your mind, you are still playing a game for a million dollars. And so you always have to be thinking about that. That this is a moment. And I can feel it. But I know everybody else can feel it. And how is that going to affect things at the end? And how is that going to affect people voting for this person... ...or against this person?

[00:25:14] So that is the one component of all of this. That will come back. And they will finally realize... ...that whole thing that happened with Joe and Eva. You saw that too, right? Okay. So when we're merged and we're all together... ...and we're chatting in the trails and at the water well... ...it is definitely going to be on the forefront of everyone's mind. Amen. Y'all. I mean, this is how I know that I'm on the healing journey. But I'm not quite healed.

[00:25:43] When I saw it, you know, like... ...I had a friend over... ...and this is like a grown-ass man. He had tears in his eyes. Chelsea, my daughter, she's 10. She's crying. And I literally said out loud, dumb. Idiots. Everybody else... This is so you, Liz. Everybody else in the country is crying. No, I'm such... You're there yelling at your TV. Dumb! I'm like... And then I was like, I'm sorry.

[00:26:13] I'm sorry. I'm not healed. I'm not healed. It's a beautiful moment. But it's a million dollars. Yes. It is a million dollars. It's a million dollars. And y'all, the way... Before this episode even aired... And I won't name names... But I was talking to someone from my cast... And we were talking about Joe and Eva... And a couple other... You know, like Kyle and Camilla. And we were like... Oh, and Mitch. And, you know...

[00:26:41] Cedric talking about his speech impediment as a kid. And we were dying laughing... Because we're like... None of these people would have made it past the merch. Too sweet. Too kind. You've got to go. There's absolutely no way I can work with you. Because you ain't getting my money. So I know I look like the... You know, money hungry one. But we all were. Like, I don't know. Season 46 is so strange. We didn't care about social media. We didn't care about each other. Like, I don't know if there was one genuine connection out there.

[00:27:10] Like, I really don't. And even I... I would say to the cameras all the time. Like, I don't care. Who I vote for. Like, I don't know these people. And, you know, there was one moment where Tiff got voted out. And Kenzie's... You know, she's upset. She's much more... You know, she's a doll compared to me. And she's crying. And... And I literally grabbed her shoulders. I said, get your head in the game. You don't know her.

[00:27:39] And you don't know me. But there's a million dollars at stake. Come on. I really do. You should get a cut for being her inspirational coach. You know? I mean, she does buy me dinner when I'm in town. And that's lovely. There you go. Yeah. It's so interesting to me how cast by cast you can, you know, have a moment like that.

[00:28:07] I mean, and then you contrast with my season. And it's like, yeah, I don't care if that lady's starving. I'm going to starve her two days in a row. Yeah. You know? Like, not once, but twice. You know? And, oh gosh, she sat out for rice. I hope she shares. You know? Yeah. We did not. It's just so interesting. Like, I cannot imagine my season having a moment like that. We were so at each other's throats. And I mean, I love to see it.

[00:28:35] But to David and Jessica's point, I think it's going to bite them in the butt when it comes to the million dollar check. Well, it's funny. Your description of your season is really a throwback to what I used to have in one of my later rules, which is, you know, you don't know these people. You're never going to see them again. Period. So who cares how you end up treating them as, you know, along the way if it works to your advantage.

[00:29:05] Now, obviously, over the years, I had to change that because, yeah, you are going to be seeing them. Now, you know, you should still be focused on the game aspect of things, you know? Right. But I had to at least get rid of the part that said you're never going to see them again. Yeah. You know, I remember I remember Rudy saying that in season one, too. He's like, yeah, when this game's over, I'm never going to see these people again. You know? Yeah. I thought about that all the time. And there's still people that I don't think I've ever seen.

[00:29:34] Well, I think I've met I've met everyone outside of the game at least once except one person. And I might never meet them. Mm hmm. Yeah. It is something to just be very mindful of when you're out there that every little thing that you do, every little thing that you say can impact the game that you have to continue to play. Yeah. And I mean, we saw it also on the the new Vula when they were enjoying their second place

[00:30:03] reward and the conversation turned to things that their parents had gone through in real life. And again, this served to to bond them all together in a way that made them apparently want to work with each other going forward. And luckily, they didn't have to ruin it by going to the next tribal council. Mm hmm. And it'll be interesting to see how that all plays out at the merge. Are these four going to stay together? I can't imagine that the editors would have shown this to us.

[00:30:33] With them talking about where the core four and everything, they might have shown the moment, but I don't know that they would have shown the confessionals of we're going to stick together, we're going to play together if it didn't come to some sort of fruition. Yeah, that's interesting. Or tension later, right? Kind of like season 41 where they were trying to, you know, work together and but they actually couldn't stand each other. That was great to me. I love season 41. I'll say it. I thought it was great.

[00:31:02] Yeah, I in contrast, I loved this scene. I thought it was so wholesome. I was like, wow, I just love Survivor. I think I said out loud, everyone should be watching the show. It's such an inspiration. But it was, I guess, because it was private. You know, it's the four of them. They're all getting along. They all decide it, you know, and that's something, you know, hopefully they can make it to the merge to Survivor Limbo or whatever. And like David just said, I bring it to fruition.

[00:31:32] I'm actually really, really excited about it. Yeah. Now, I know other people are watching this going, when are they going to get to the rules? But I do want to also mention that, you know, on the flip side of things, the reward challenge led to say getting angry at the way Mary was talking after her tribe won. And I have to tell you, I actually agree with what say said there. There was no reason for Mary. I understand Mary was celebrating. She was happy.

[00:32:01] But then to say, and we still had half of the fruit left over, too. Yeah, but it's a mental game, too. You've got to mess with people. Digging in the knife there. Yeah. Yeah. I think digging's fine. I don't think I'd call it being a sore winner. But maybe just think a little before speaking about how things are going to impact others. And now Mitch, of course, said the same thing about, say, herself, that it's OK to have

[00:32:27] an opinion, but you don't have to share it, which is something that I remember, you know, teaching my son when he was very young and had an opinion that he said of adult and got himself in trouble. And I I said, you can have that opinion. You just can't say it. Right. You know, I'm not going to tell you you're wrong, but don't say it out loud. And, you know, but of all of this, the one person who I didn't feel was right was charity

[00:32:56] saying at least twice that say was a sore loser. I'm like, give her a break. She hasn't eaten for days or she hadn't eaten for days. I guess she had a little bit of fruit. She, you know, her own friend just rubbed it in her face that they had a lot of food. Friend. Well, I mean, we think. From the outside. I don't know. Do you do you understand feeling kind of, I don't know, pissed in a situation like this? Yeah.

[00:33:23] I mean, I think they're all right in their own ways, like each perspective. Right. Like Mary was super excited and she probably wasn't thinking like, oh, we saw food left, like holler and then say, you know, she can't help. She feels like a person that can't help herself. Yes, definitely. But to say and, you know, even if they're frenemies, they probably are close in a way, you know, like close. It's very clear with their idol chase that they are very comfortable with each other,

[00:33:53] good or bad. Yeah. Right. So she probably was, again, thinking I'm just saying that to Mary. I forgot all these other people are here. Or maybe I want to make Mary look like an ass. So I'm going to say it in front of everyone. You know, it could go either way. And then charity. I don't know. I feel like she just wanted to say something. Yeah. I mean, she really didn't have a dog in this fight until she decided to say something, you know. But also relatable.

[00:34:21] Well, hence why I do so many podcasts. I just want to be heard, baby. Yeah. Well, obviously. Yeah. And then, of course, you know, say continued her to me anyway, entertaining reactions in response to the way Chrissy was acting back at camp, because they just decided to eat a kiwi without discussing it and told Cedric. Oh, my gosh. You know, I'm sorry. I know. I know. Well, hold on. I agree. I agree. I agree.

[00:34:50] She said she's momming me to death and I don't have to tell you what I'm eating, you psychopath. And I think all of these lines were hilarious, but she has clearly forgotten the banana etiquette lessons of heroes versus villains. Yes. And there is definitely etiquette involved. So, yes, I found it entertaining, but I do disagree with her there. You're on Survivor. Everything you do affects how other people look at you. Right.

[00:35:19] And you're on taking food. Right. And you're on New Era. You ain't got no rice. You know, like that is the food. Right. I mean, yes, you can go find some other things, but, you know, it's few and far between. It's not it's not food, food. Right. Right. And so even I like we won an award and I couldn't eat anything. And production actually brought in four apples for me. And those four apples lasted me.

[00:35:48] I mean, the apple is the size of a fist. It really honestly wasn't generous when they're, you know, eating brownies the size of my fist. Right. So I had these four apples. I think I think six days it took me to eat those apples because I didn't know when the next food was coming. And every time I ate an apple, I either asked everyone, do you mind if I eat this apple? No, because I'm not sharing. And I would say that I'm not sharing my apples. And they're like, oh, gosh, yeah, of course not.

[00:36:17] But I wanted to make sure, you know, it wouldn't make like trigger someone. Right. Right. Or I would eat them in secret at night. I would literally take them with me when I went to the bathroom and eat them in secret because food is such a trigger. I mean, it got to the point where people were talking about food. And I think it was Venus. She got so upset because she was so hungry. She had to walk away like we were starving.

[00:36:45] And that poor thing is already small. Right. And so I was. Yes. I was like, no, say you're the psychopath. Like this is not a restaurant. The same ponderosa with the buffet. It nothing is coming at noon. OK. So. Yes. Yes. There's no refrigerator that you can just go to when you decide that you want to have another kiwi. Yeah. It was just lacked tact, I think. Yeah. I mean, I think in real life she'd be right. She's an adult. She wants to eat. She can eat. Sure.

[00:37:15] But it's not real life. No. Right. No. You need to ask before you go in the pantry. OK. Yeah. Yeah. You must get clearance for mom, dad, auntie, uncle, cousin. Yes. All of it is. You open up a coconut. You offer it to everyone. Yes. We had we had a food issue with Taylor hiding food, burying food. Oh, yes. That became a whole like discussion at tribal.

[00:37:42] And he ended up getting voted out because everyone was so angry about the food because it literally went missing. And this was food that was supposed to be for everyone. And you didn't just go in and take extra because you decided you wanted a late night snack. But he did. He took jars of food. You know, so, yeah, you don't do that on Survivor. Yeah. So I want to say, like, since we're talking about this, you know, they always say, like,

[00:38:08] you know, what is it like on our loyalty is currency in this game. No food actually is like you. You you rob the bank. You going home like, you know, like, don't rob the bank. Mm hmm. All right. Well, we have spent more than usual on on this segment already. So you're welcome, folks. Well, yes. And I people will understand why in a minute.

[00:38:36] But this whole podcast, the rest of it's going to be longer than usual, too. I'll explain why in a minute. But there were even more things going on. I will be putting some of those things in my YouTube shorts at David Bloomberg TV. But before we get still to how Bianca did, we want to mention that the rules we're about to discuss are available in a shorter and much more colorful version and poster form. Rob has a website dot com slash.

[00:39:02] YX lost feed and scroll down to the poster, click on it and order it. And then our shipping department will rush it out to you as they have rushed it out to many people before. In addition, you can keep scrolling down and get the poster on a T-shirt or you can get the checklist on a T-shirt. So, again, all of that is available at Rob has a website dot com slash YX lost feed. You know, David, I was thinking I've kind of missed out on an.

[00:39:31] I've got an incredible opportunity with these posters, right? Because we have come to learn that so many players that are now on particular seasons have actually purchased these posters. And I don't necessarily pay attention to the names and the labels. And when I'm mailing these things out, I should have been including little notes in all of the posters. Like, if you would like an alliance partner, let me know. Just in case. Right. Just in case. She's a smarty that one.

[00:40:02] No, I'm not because this just came to me. Like, I didn't think of it before. I should have been including that. Just a little, you know, DM me if you're interested. You know, something. But I didn't. Well, Bianca said in interviews that after the vote, she felt like she did it to herself. She made the right decision and it didn't go the way she wanted. And she's potentially right about that. But she also talked about the reasons she chose to go the route she did in telling Cedric about not having a vote.

[00:40:31] So where did her calculations go wrong there? What differences in circumstances caused Cedric to vote out Bianca after she told him compared to Cedric voting out Justin after he didn't reveal the information? At RHAP, we know Survivor and we know why Bianca lost. But before we actually start talking about specific rules, I need to mention something. So I had put together all my notes for the podcast.

[00:41:02] And I felt really good about when we were what we were going to be talking about. Sometimes, you know, you just I'm writing stuff out and it just clicks together. It just all of a sudden I see where all the pieces fall. And that happened. You know, last night I was doing it. I was really happy about that. I had, you know, it fell together. I had a good conclusion. And then this morning I came in and put some finishing touches on.

[00:41:27] And then some doubt started creeping in about what actually happened. And I was like, OK, well, I'll add a note at the end to mention, you know, that, OK, it's possible this other thing happened. But then I had further review and there were some discussions online specifically with James Jones and Jeff Pittman of True Dork Times. Plus, there were other people, too.

[00:41:54] And I don't want to give anyone short shrift if you help contribute to this, you know, coming to me. So thank you to everyone. And I need to mention it here because everything I had planned to discuss was based on the idea that Survivor gave us an honest show of more or less what happened. And of course, we know they cut certain things and they smooth over the edit. So it's more straightforward. Oh, we usually do know that. Yes.

[00:42:23] They usually don't outright lie. However, I have come to believe that is a definite possibility here. Now, later on, they lied, lied by omission. We'll call it. OK. All right. So later on, we'll talk about how Bianca insisted in every interview that there was no way Cedric could have told Chrissy about her not having a vote. Right.

[00:42:50] Later on, I'll also discuss some plausible scenarios I have for that, how that could have happened. But there is another one, actually another couple. James suggested it was already going to be a split vote with Mitch and Cedric and supposedly Bianca voting for say. And Chrissy voting for Bianca as a safety measure. Hmm.

[00:43:15] And that would mean Cedric heard what Bianca said, and he was the only one who needed to flip his vote, knowing what would happen. He didn't need to talk to anyone else. Hmm. Interesting. Now, personally, even though I've talked to James about this a little bit more, I don't think that's the specific scenario that happened. That's just my personal opinion at this point. Instead, I think if we are in this alternate universe.

[00:43:43] That Cedric and Chrissy planned before. Bianca planned to get rid of her before she revealed that she'd lost her vote. Well, they actually talked about it. Right. And this would explain why we didn't see Cedric communicating a new plan to Chrissy. We had previously seen those two and Mitch talking about how Bianca had gone on a journey. So she may have either had an extra vote or no vote.

[00:44:11] And, you know, we'll discuss the implications of that and other aspects of this possibility later in the rules. But I think we still need to focus primarily on what we were shown and told. I don't want to ignore that in favor of this other theory. Because, I mean, we could devote a full podcast to both. But then, I mean, we're already running long. This thing would be like three or four hours long if we did that. We're not doing that. Yes.

[00:44:41] No, we're not. I need to get to bed tonight. Yeah. And so, no, I do think we will find out that no matter which of these scenarios it was, there's still a lot of overlap. This was another situation where as I went back, I didn't have this planned in my schedule today. And I was like, okay, I got to put aside all this other stuff and come back to my notes and redo them all. Added like over two pages of notes, took some things out.

[00:45:10] And some things still fit together nicely, as we'll see. So that part's good. Because I still do think we will get to an answer. You know, and it's just which part of the answer is going to end up being correct. Interesting. So again, a thank you in advance to everyone who was involved in the discussion that sparked or provided ideas, especially James and Jeff, but also there were other people involved,

[00:45:40] especially earlier on that kind of started sparking things. So one other thing I wanted to mention, we haven't listened to every Survivor podcast as of this recording. It is possible someone else came to the same idea. If they did, props to them. I just haven't heard it yet. But something similar to this happened last week when Jeremy Faust brought up an idea. And then after recording, he sat down and listened to the Survivor International podcast

[00:46:09] only to find out that Shannon's guest had brought up the same thing. And he was like, don't. Think of that. Yeah. Sometimes it happens. Great minds think alike. Yes, it definitely can happen. I think it's a fascinating theory. And I do think that we probably put much more, or I would say when I say we, the people watching the episode put much more like stock in the fact that she shared this information with Cedric

[00:46:37] and then it somehow had this whirlwind effect on everything. But I do think it was much more simplistic than that. And I think all it did was solidify or finalize in Cedric's mind what he needed to do. It literally made his decision easier. Because he did say the last thing he said before they were walking into tribal, like when he was a little voiceover, was I feel like I'm walking into tribal council with all of the information.

[00:47:02] And I really do think that that was the last little nugget that he needed to just go, oh, this can be straightforward and easy then. Because now I know exactly where all of the votes are landing. And it's not going to be what it was when we had double and double and all that craziness and where he had to decide who was going to go home. None of that needed to happen because he literally did have all of the information. Yeah. Let's talk about what David said about, you know, survivors lying to us or whatever.

[00:47:32] I noticed something strange. And normally, like I just watch to watch. I don't consider myself a super fan. You know, I'm just trying to get back into, you know, watching it and enjoying it. But I will say the confessionals that Cedric, when he was talking and saying, oh, I have all the information, dah, dah, dah. I'm like that. And I said it out loud. I said, that's from the next morning. Because he's wearing different clothes. He is. Sunlight is different. I'm like, that's a morning confessional right there.

[00:48:01] And then the scene where Bianca is telling Cedric, and I only know this from personal experience, and I feel like David might be onto something, is like the scene where she's like, if you look at the light, maybe I am a super fan. The sun is setting. Oh, yeah. It is locked down. And you look at the light of the slow-mo camera face thing.

[00:48:30] I'm like, this is a last minute thing. Somebody must have gone to confessional, right? Somebody went on their walk. It was probably Bianca. And she was so torn that they gave her the extra 10 minutes to change her mind and go with that second gut feeling and talk to Cedric. It felt like one of those, and the way that they were, like where they're at in the jungle, it feels like it's just off from camp.

[00:48:59] And I know there was one time that they did that to all of us, and it was the hunter vote. And it was locked down. And then they said, we're just going to do one more walk. Everyone's getting a walk. And I was like, ooh, this is getting juicy. And it was, I swear, it was in that same location that Cedric and Bianca are talking.

[00:49:25] And not that they let them after lockdown, but I feel like they might have extended when they said, like, hey, no talking. So that that moment could happen. Yeah. It might have even been when, you know, Cedric's being pulled for his last confessional. Bianca is walking from hers. Like, that felt like, oh, this feels really rushed. It felt like a rushed shot. Well, and she said.

[00:49:54] They can move things in a particular direction. Yeah. I mean, she said in her interviews, it was, she waited till absolutely the last minute. And that's why she could be so certain that he didn't go off and tell anyone else because there were only a few minutes after that. And she kept eagle eyes on him. Right. Right. At that point. I knew there was something fishy about that scene. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I will say it will really annoy me if it turns out Survivor production essentially

[00:50:23] lied to us and not showed us what was really going on in this effort to surprise us. I know they like to keep us in suspense. I think they way overdo it. This is an ongoing complaint. We're not going to turn off the TV over the last, in the last five minutes of Survivor because we're like, oh, we know who's going because you never really know. There are other ways to do suspense other than literally hiding plans from us.

[00:50:48] So we'll just, you know, base it on what we know and what we can maybe figure out and go from there. Well, I will say too, like I didn't really pick up on that conversation that Chrissy and Cedric were having about voting out Bianca until I watched it a second time. Then I was like, oh, wait a second. There was actually discussion about Bianca being the vote and being the plan. And then all the stuff with, with say happened. And I almost feel like she's just a red herring for this entire episode.

[00:51:18] They wanted to show all of these things about say being vocal and frustrating people. And being angry and eating kiwi when she's not supposed to. And so it's like, you're distracted by say, and everyone who's watching is like, oh, well, say seems like to be the, the obvious choice. But then you have Cedric talking about, and again, I agree. I think that confessional came the next day with Cedric when he's talking about how she's

[00:51:42] the only person that I actually have that I can trust and that I can work with, which is interesting because he's locked himself into say, so we're seeing the say that I think production wants us to see, right? Where he has a different type of relationship with say. Right. And so he's, he has, he doesn't owe Bianca anything. He, this is a new relationship. This is someone he's just come together with and he owes her nothing.

[00:52:08] And so now she's just like tossed him like this, just beautiful. You're jumping ahead, Jessica. I know. I can't help it. I'm sorry. We're about to start the rules. Okay. So let's do this. Let's do this. We're 54 minutes in. Okay. 51 minutes in. Don't, don't exaggerate. Come on. Before up there. I don't know what you're looking at, but anyway. All right.

[00:52:35] So rule one, the first and most important rule is to scheme and plot. And once again, we have a situation where, you know, Bianca knew that she, she put it into action. She knew what was happening with this rule. Um, and even more than what we should saw, you know, there was additional stuff that she talked about in her interviews. We know she had a tight alliance with Thomas. So she, even though Thomas was in the California girls, he considered Bianca to be his number one.

[00:53:02] Um, if the tribe had gone to tribal council or that original tribe had come back together at merge, she was in a good position to be solidly with the majority for at least one vote, possibly in addition to that, she told Gordon Holmes that she was secretly working with star on their original tribe. And in fact, star had told her about finding the beware advantage, but then Bianca told her a, you need to tell Thomas.

[00:53:28] So then Bianca pretended not to know when star circled back around until both of them at the same time. Um, but none of them, none of that ended up mattering because they didn't go to tribal council and she got swapped without anyone from her original tribe. Anyway, still in her new tribe, she jumped right into it, looking for cracks, finding one between say and Cedric, you know, trying to decide that, you know, who she would rather work with, uh, those two against Chrissy and Mitch in that particular situation.

[00:53:59] And she turned that into what could have been a really good plan for someone in her position, pretending to be the swing vote while hiding the fact that she didn't have a vote to swing. Mm hmm. I think that was the best plan that she probably could have come up with considering the circumstances to, I know we're going to talk about the, her losing a vote. And I think that's obnoxious and I've already stood on a lot of soap boxes about that, but

[00:54:28] just in that situation, she was very vocal about the fact, at least in confessionals, like, what am I supposed to do? I don't have any power. I don't have a vote. So yeah, the best thing to do is to deflect it off of yourself and try really hard to make people look elsewhere and offer up what you can. And that's, I will vote with you because they don't know I don't have a vote. So I can at least try to fudge my way through this tribal council and do damage control later.

[00:54:56] So I think out of all of the options she had, that truly was the best one. Agree. Yeah. I will have more to say on that later. I think this was, you know, from what we saw, it seems that way. I think there are other things we'll, we'll get to, but then once they lost the immunity challenge, Bianca again, seemed to have a good ongoing plan.

[00:55:24] I was excited to see how it was going to turn out. She, she talked to the duo on each side to make them think she was with them. She was planning on, you know, basically causing a tie vote. And then she figured that Cedric would flip on say at that point, rather than risk a rock drop, because after all he had voted against her, you know, before. And I was thinking at the time that she also probably figured, even if he didn't flip, she had a two thirds chance of making it through.

[00:55:54] But from what she said in interviews, I think she was actually worried about the rock draw and didn't want that to happen. I don't know why anyone would be worried about a rock draw though. Yeah. They suck. Just so y'all know. I could think of maybe one person. Can you? I told you I'm bad at trivia. I can't remember who these people are. Who are we talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Go on. Yeah. Now, now, Bianca told Mike Bloom, I was trying to kind of slide in and work with Cedric and

[00:56:24] kind of replace say and be his number one moving forward. And she also said, not shown was me telling Cedric say is gunning for you. I tried to work with you too. And say wants you out. But what she didn't know was that Cedric was telling us that even as much as he knew say would have to go at some point, he still trusted her more than anyone else for now. Yeah. So she was she was in an uphill battle, I would say.

[00:56:53] Barking up the wrong tree. Yeah. Poor thing. So then after the challenge, Bianca was still on the page of moving forward with the tie and told us, I wish I could tell Cedric I don't have a vote, but I can't do that. I cannot trust that they won't be like, let's just get rid of you then. At that moment, what I was thinking was, yeah, you should have listened to yourself. And then you didn't, which apparently takes us directly into the second rule.

[00:57:24] Which says, of course, not to scheme and plot too much and to keep your scheming secret. Unfortunately, Bianca was over to on that one after she changed her mind. Instead of sticking with what she had been thinking, she overthought it and worried too much about what would happen afterwards and trying to make a calculation about her future where Cedric would think of her as a class A liar. And yes, you need to think about your long game. But we've said this before.

[00:57:54] You can't do it at the expense of your immediate game because if you don't make it past this vote, you have no long game to worry about. Right. It doesn't matter. And also she was drawing dead, right? So in this particular situation, she wants to be the swing vote. She's not loyal or doesn't owe any loyalty to anyone who she's actually on this tribe with.

[00:58:17] So being worried about necessarily how they would feel about her afterwards, she's got other people that she was playing this game with before that she was planning on being loyal to. There is a possibility that she can repair any damage of what comes out of this vote because what else does she have to lose other than, oh, well, she already lost her vote. So she can't lose that. But yes, I mean, there might be some issues with someone having to make her explain.

[00:58:47] But of course, she's going to say, well, what else was I supposed to do? I didn't have a vote. So this was how I how I played. And this is how it turned out. So I just feel like if you're already drawing dead, you have to make the most of what you have. And in her case, it was literally nothing besides trying to just convince people that you had a vote and convince people that you were with them.

[00:59:09] I was afraid she was going to do too much by talking to both sides and that they were going to start sharing that, you know, Bianca's promising all of us the same thing. And so that was my concern. That was what was going to happen in our parallel universe scenario. I think that is part of what happened. You think that's part of it? Yeah, I'll get to that in a minute. I didn't know. Liz, if you had anything to add or I'll.

[00:59:33] Yeah, I think one thing and I apparently yell at my TV a lot when I'm watching as she said, my gut is telling me don't tell anyone. But my second gut is telling me. And that stood out to me. I was like, girl, you ain't no cow. You only got one. But like what? And I think that goes well with number two, that rule number two, like don't do it too much. Yes. Like if your second gut is kicking in, you know, quote unquote, like you're doing too much.

[01:00:03] Yes. Now, I know there's already a lot of debate and people joking, as I did in the introduction to this very podcast, about how Cedric voted out Justin in part because he didn't tell Cedric about his lost vote and then voted out Bianca because she did tell him. Now, of course, regular listeners will know that was not the full reason Cedric made the choice he did with Justin. There was a lot of emotion involved there, a topic that we'll discuss again later.

[01:00:32] But even aside from that, this was not the same situation. You cannot really compare these two because. Justin had been Cedric's trusted ally from the beginning of the game. Yes. Yes. He was his first ally, which meant a lot to Cedric. This was he was the one Cedric really wanted to work with long term. They had already been through two tribal councils together.

[01:00:58] Justin lying to him and it being revealed in tribal council without time for Justin to explain at all hit Cedric in a certain way. Yes. Yes. Yes. One hundred percent. But Bianca, Jessica, as you were alluding to earlier. This was a new relationship. And she even said to him, I'm trying to build some trust. Right. But she didn't have that trust yet.

[01:01:24] And he was simultaneously trying to build or maintain his own alliances. You don't build trust by telling someone you've been lying to them since the moment you first met. Right. And telling him. Okay, fair. Yeah. You know, telling him the way that she did, as we talked about with minutes before they headed to tribal council, probably made it feel like he was being used, not trusted.

[01:01:51] If she truly trusted him, why wait so long? Well, and her whole thing about I just I'm doing this also because say is going home tonight. So I wanted you to be prepared for that. No, she wasn't. She wasn't going home if it was a two to, you know, it was say was only going home if Cedric flip and did what Bianca thought was going to happen. And so, again, you're not telling him anything that's actually true because he can do the math and go. But wait, no, no.

[01:02:19] You're telling him what you expect him to do. Right. Exactly. And so it's so you're saying, hey, I'm telling you this because I want to I want to gain your trust. I want to build this trust with you. And then also, by the way, this is how it's going to be. So this is why I'm telling you. But he was the one holding all of the cards at that point and had and as we've already talked about, he had all of the information. So it's he's certainly not going to be sitting there going, oh, gee, what am I supposed to do with this now? Because I'm in this predicament.

[01:02:49] No, she was in the predicament and then made it worse for her by sharing all of this information with Cedric. Now, what I just said also applies in the alternative scenario that I had mentioned. Where there's already potentially. So let's go to this other universe here or maybe the real universe. We all need to do that.

[01:03:22] There would have been already a plan afoot to vote out Bianca. Now, the primary reason for such a plan would likely be that Cedric, Chrissy and Mitch already knew Bianca was being dishonest with them. I mentioned earlier that we saw those two and Mitch talking about how Bianca had gone on a journey. So she may have either had an extra vote or no vote. Now, remember, this was the same vote Camilla had been on.

[01:03:51] Camilla came back to her tribe, followed in Mitch's footsteps and told everything. So Chrissy and Mitch would have known that there was no choice. There was no opt out. You automatically risked your vote. There was one of two options. You lost your vote or you gained an advantage. Right. And so one way or another, she was lying to them. Yeah. That may have caused.

[01:04:22] Cedric to talk further to the other two and all of them to realize that Bianca had been trying to play them against each other. The thing you mentioned earlier. So how do you solve that problem? Well, you target her. You have two people vote for her. One person, Mitch, votes for Say as a backup. They knew Say would be voting for Chrissy.

[01:04:45] And if Bianca does indeed have the extra vote and she chooses to use it against Say or Chrissy, well, then Say or Chrissy goes home. They're just, you know, obviously, if you're Chrissy, that's not an ideal situation. But I don't think Chrissy felt there was a world in which Bianca was voting against her. And if Say goes home, you know, OK, it's not the biggest loss to all of them. Well, especially Chrissy and Mitch.

[01:05:13] But even Cedric in that situation, I think, was willing to risk it. If she chooses to use it against Cedric or Mitch for some reason, or if she doesn't use it at all, there's a tie because there's two votes on her and two votes elsewhere. And then Bianca is out on the re-vote. And if she lost her vote, well, we know what happened then. End of story. We're both like, hmm.

[01:05:43] So, yeah. Great color, people. I mean, this is the alternative scenario. So I'm throwing this all at you right now here, you know. It makes more sense. It does make more sense. And it's actually because I like the Chrissy-Mitch component of all of this and the Camilla portion that you mentioned as well. That we and also Mitch did the same thing when he came back. He was like, look what I got. And that's why Camilla did it, because she was like, well, Mitch has set the precedent. Mitch is already right. Right.

[01:06:12] So it was so it put her in a position where she had to. And so I'm I'm wondering, and this is just something that I highly doubt when they got done the journey that they all like discussed the outcome where they were like, oh, I lost my vote. What about you? But there is something to be said just about people's demeanor and how people are acting. And I'm curious as well, like, how was Bianca acting after that moment when she was leaving?

[01:06:42] Like you can just kind of some people you can read their faces and try to basically determine. Right. When she was leaving. What? The journey. The journey. Because you're leaving the journey together with the other two people who one has, you know, Camilla was successful. In her endeavors. And the other the other two were not correct. We had because Justin was the other one. Yeah, right. Yeah.

[01:07:05] So so I'm just wondering how they were all acting when they left the journey and whether or not Camilla. I mean, she seems to have a really good like read on people. So I'm just I'm wondering about that, too. So there is a lot to be said about these moments and the effect that it can have on the game. As a whole, because that information is being shared and it is going back.

[01:07:31] So even if you think I'm not telling anybody, well, someone else might be telling for you, which I think is probably what went down here as well. That's so smart. Wow. You should start a podcast. Wow. Yeah, because I mean, they probably. So with my journey, I had to leave before the boys because I didn't get to play the game, which was right anyway.

[01:07:58] But I I feel like even if it's, you know, locked down, whatever, you're not supposed to be talking. Yeah, there's definitely a vibe. I would be buzzing if I got an extra vote. I mean, I might be trying to hide it or maybe I'd be trying to signal, you know, to people like, hey, you know, work with me. I lost my vote or, you know, I don't know what these people are thinking, you know. Yeah. Joe and Eva. Yeah. But yeah. So that's so smart. They could be speculating.

[01:08:27] Oh, well, Camilla said this, which makes me think she doesn't have a vote or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Now, basically, what we're left with is a situation where depending on the factors we don't know, Bianca either made a mistake by trying to be honest at the last minute or by being dishonest from the start. So if we if we started the first one, which is what we saw on TV, it's often said it's better to ask forgiveness than permission. Or I guess in this case, not so much permission.

[01:08:56] But let's say ask forgiveness, then let the person know you're about to do something wrong. Mm hmm. That was not the case for Justin because of the already established relationship. But it was the case here, especially since the plan she had in mind, if it had gone through, would have ensured she could not be voted out in this tribal council. And she would have guaranteed herself time to explain it later, which was a luxury that Justin did not have.

[01:09:27] Right. Yeah. Right. Now, Bianca said in her interviews that Cedric told her about how Justin didn't tell him about losing his vote. And I could understand that that would make her think, oh, she'd better let him know. And again, different situations and the way she did it just made her look sneaky. Yeah. If you're going for full honesty. Be honest. Don't drop it on someone with zero time left.

[01:09:56] That is a very good point. Yeah. So even if it's seemingly the opposite situation, I think it probably felt to Cedric like it was a replay of the Justin situation because Justin didn't give Cedric time to think about the impact of the information. Neither did Bianca. It doesn't feel like honesty. It feels manipulative, like a child who waits to tell something bad to a parent when they're in a public situation.

[01:10:24] So they can't get yelled at for it. Yeah. Well, and I also think that it's this is, again, a survivor situation. It's it's difficult because there are moments where you do have to keep secrets and you have to determine at what point do you necessarily share. So everything is like.

[01:10:47] Is it is it like this weird math thing that you have to try to work through in your head, because if you make a decision over here two days later, it could have a detrimental effect on you. But if you change that, if you change your mind, do something different, it could still have a detrimental effect on you. So you really do have to look at it from your position in this tribe.

[01:11:10] And if her decision was, I don't want anybody to know about this, considering where she was in that tribe in that moment, that would have been the best choice for her moving forward. Whereas Justin, as you've already talked about different different situation entirely. So you really have to consider all of those components when you are deciding at what point do you share this information, because it really can have a negative effect on you if you if it's if it's too late.

[01:11:39] And all of a sudden it feels like, oh, well, now you're telling me this. Thanks. Like, how is this helpful to me? You should have told me this three days ago or two days ago, whatever it was. So, yes, everything is I mean, it's certainly not an easy decision, but you have to work through all of the implications of the decision. Amen. Yeah.

[01:12:01] Now, this takes us to the second scenario, the alternative world scenario where Cedric, Chrissy and Mitch had already decided to target Bianca because of her dishonesty. Hmm. And so, like like we were just saying, if you're going for honesty, be honest, especially in a situation where there is already information out there about these journeys. I said last week, Thomas went on a journey. Kyle and Camilla didn't know if he had an advantage, but they did know he lied.

[01:12:30] Same thing applied here. If this, you know, well, whether or not the situation happened, the same thing applies that she should have seen this. And, you know, she should have realized that this lie would not or at least might not carry the day in the same way Thomas should have realized it last week. There is too much information sharing out there to pull that off. Yeah. Yeah. We need to stop with these journeys.

[01:12:58] Well, yes, but, you know, I mean, or I mean, the thing is, the players need to understand you can't just make stuff up and expect that no one else is going to know about it. But even without tribe swats, Camilla found out just sitting on the sit-out bench. Right. Right. And also, let's, and I know I've already mentioned this and I won't make a big deal about it again, but if you are going to have journeys, that's fine. Have journeys, but then let it be a choice of the player. Right. But that's, I mean, that's a different issue for this.

[01:13:28] Right. You know, that's a production issue. I'm saying for the players, they need to understand if you're crafting a lie, make sure it's not an easily discoverable lie. Well, right. But that's what I, but I think that this goes with that because in this particular situation, Bianca was, it's a very difficult lie to have to pull off because people know that you either did or did not lose your vote. Period. Like it's not, well, did she play the game? Yes. Yes.

[01:13:57] So you are, you are in a situation where it's either you got an extra vote or you lost your vote because you were forced to play a game and the game that you had to play was a game of chance. And so you're, you're very limited in what you can do with that information. So you're taking a strategic game move away from the players by taking that away from them too, because you can't even try to say, well, maybe she just didn't play. And so it had no effect. So she has her vote and everything is fine. She doesn't have an extra vote. She still has her vote. She didn't lose her vote.

[01:14:26] You're, you are limiting the players so much in a moment like this. And so I think Bianca was, it's like, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't. She, she knows that she went on this journey. Everybody knows that she went on this journey. She didn't want to go on the journey. She didn't have a choice. She was said, told she was going, she went, didn't want to, then she had to play the game, lost her vote. So now she's stuck with this terrible thing.

[01:14:51] So does she walk into a new tribe of people and go, Hey, by the way, you all know that I went on this journey, right? Okay. I lost my vote. Let's just start there. I don't know, because if you do that, then maybe they're like, well, okay, then forget her. She can go home. I don't know. Seems tough. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think I have something about this later. I obviously you can't do that, but I think you need to pick someone like Cedric, for example, and truly show that you trust them.

[01:15:20] That is your best option there. You know, you, you found the cracks. Now you wedge your way in there by giving honest information. Yeah. Um, so now getting back, Liz, you look in deep thought. I don't know if you have, uh, I, I might just do what Jessica said. I know David said, don't do it, but I found that out there radical. I mean, I'm talking radical honesty. The same.

[01:15:49] It's sometimes really, really like rewarded. Hmm. And so that's such a bold move. Right. I mean, it could backfire any way. She's screwed. Right. Or she could be screwed. Right. In any situation, anything she does, the possibility of being screwed is high. Right. It's giving brothel. So I feel like I might have done something like that.

[01:16:18] And the way she said that with a straight face and kept going, um, I, I feel like I might've done something like that. Like I was always just radically honest, like, you know, to your face. I'm so mad at you. I can't talk to you or I'm not looking for an idol. Do you think I'm stupid? You know, and even there was something I went up to Kenzie and this about a hamburger maybe. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm pissed.

[01:16:45] You know, I would have said I'm effing pissed, but it was CBS, you know? Um, you know, I was just always straightforward. Even I had a conversation with Maria one day and she was like, why aren't we working together? We have so much in common, this and that. And I said, you're working with Q and I can never work with you. So we might vote together, but we are not together. She could have rallied the troops and gotten me out right there. But I've talked to her outside of the game and she's like, you were the only person I felt like

[01:17:14] was never lying about anything. And I'm like, oh, I was lying about everything. But in those, like in the game, I would be very honest. Like, yep, I'm voting this way. And like, I wouldn't go back and forth. You know, I wouldn't pin people again. You don't have to pin people against each other. They just do that naturally for you. Right. It's great. Yeah. But I feel like, you know, that might've been a move. I don't know. And not everyone could pull it off. Yeah.

[01:17:44] But I think a very bold, like, you know, loud and proud type of person could pull something like that off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, getting back to our scenario for what we saw on TV, I had mentioned in the first rule, I thought Bianca originally was willing to go to a rock draw if necessary, but she indicated otherwise in interviews. While, of course, going out in a rock draw is terrible. Sorry, Jessica. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:18:10] I still think she had better odds that way than by telling Cedric and hoping he wouldn't flip on her at the last minute. The past two weeks, I've corrected the math of players who have miscalculated. But this one is trickier because there are no hard numbers to compare it to. So it's a bit subjective. Bianca obviously felt she had a better chance doing it this way.

[01:18:35] But even if there was zero chance, Cedric would flip and therefore a one third chance she would go home in a rock draw. I still think that's better odds than hitting him with this out of the blue and expecting him to just go along with it. Again, presuming this is the TV scenario. Sure. The TV scenario. I love that. And maybe that's one of the reasons she lost or, you know, and even Justin losses. Just people are underestimating Cedric's agency.

[01:19:04] I think so. And that is one thing that has been pointed out to me recently. I don't know if the person who said this to me wants me to use their name, so I won't. But he has controlled every vote that he's been in. Period. Period. Yeah. So I know there's a lot of people out there making fun of him. No, and he even was on Facebook. He had one of his people in his office reading mean tweets about him. Oh, no. He's a gem.

[01:19:33] He was laughing about it. No, I love that. Yeah, I think people are underestimating like, oh, he's just as Ben Katzman would say a goat for the vote. I think people did that to Ben, too. They thought, oh, he's maybe a little in over his head. He's not really, you know, he's there. He's going to vote. But, you know, he could be easily swayed. And that bit a lot of people in the ass. Yes. Still sings them today, I think.

[01:20:03] Good for Ben. Yeah. I mean, you know, Cedric had voted against, say, twice. And so Bianca said in interviews she figured it would be easy to get him to do it again. But she missed the important point. Even though he voted against, say, twice, he turned around and saved her in the end. Right. That's the biggest thing. Mic drop. And that was how tight an emotional bond they had even then. Yeah.

[01:20:33] So it wasn't like he tried and failed. And so he'd be like, oh, I'm up for it again. You know, there are always votes where people try and fail. Yeah. Tell me about it. He tried and changed his mind. Yeah. No, I think that that is definitely a very missed fact in all of this that he opted to save, say, instead of sending, say, home. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:21:04] All right. Well, we can finally get to rule three now. I almost put it in the chat. What rule are we on? Well, I went to see it. So it wouldn't matter. Third. Inside behind the scenes podcast joke. I know. Liz and I are going to talk about you now, David. Oh, man. I'm going to have to turn the chat. What's rule three? The third rule tells us to be flexible, Liz. So how do you think Bianca did in this rule?

[01:21:34] Um, I think, OK, you know, I think that going talking to both sides, you know, but I think because she didn't have a vote, it's hard to be flexible. You know? Yeah. I mean, I think I think she had played earlier in a way that was flexible, having Thomas as an ally also. True. Others and then separately star. But, you know, we didn't see the outcome of that. So, yeah, I agree with you that she tried to be flexible here.

[01:22:04] Um. But like you said, without a vote. I think that if she was going to tell Cedric her secret. She should have done it early enough that she appeared honest. And that is under either scenario. Other whichever scenario ended up happening. This is one of the times I talked about.

[01:22:29] They come together because if she had told him sooner. Well, then maybe he wouldn't have been part of this plan to target her for being dishonest. Hmm. And if it's what we saw on TV and she told him sooner. Then he would have had time to think about it and not just. Yeah. You know, decide at the last minute where it seems like manipulation instead.

[01:22:56] Well, maybe she's a little too flexible because she listened to her second gut. Yeah. I think God, I'll get you every time. It's like the devil on your shoulder. I want a gut on my shoulder. That's just weird. I hope it's not bloated. All right. Well, we can then quickly move on to rule four, which tells players not to let their emotions control them. So this is about emotions.

[01:23:26] Could be about guts. Jessica, what do you think about Bianca for this one? That's where I was going to go immediately is that second damn gut. Because I do think that there is a lot to be said in this game when you have that initial response or feeling about something that you need to lean in on that and really think about it before the other part of you starts creeping in. Because this is a game. Because this is a game and everything is very calculated and difficult.

[01:23:55] And you have to work through so many things when you're making a decision. But I do think that she let her emotions get in the way here and decided that she thought that she could save face with Cedric for a later occurrence and hoping that she was going to have a relationship with him. But she needed to get there first. And so I do think that she let the emotions take over.

[01:24:20] And that's what caused her to go to Cedric when she should have just been like, nope, I'm locked and loaded right now. This is all I've got. This is what I'm sticking with. And we're going to see what happens. Yeah, I totally agree. I wrote down, you know, she kind of hit the panic button and she was disguising it as a gut move. Her second gut, right? Which we know doesn't exist. Gutting. The panic button. Gutting. Yes. Love that. I love that. Somebody put it on a mug. Someone needs to put your brothel comment on a mug.

[01:24:49] It's giving brothel. I don't even remember what we were talking about. Somebody got screwed. Somebody's getting screwed tonight. Guaranteed. David, call me. Cornips. Cornips. So. She's got milk. Yeah. When. What were we talking about? Oh, panic buttons. So for me, that second gut thing.

[01:25:17] I was like, oh, no, she hit the panic button. The second she said that, that's what I was thinking. And something that out on the island, I was always saying to myself is, Liz, you can let everyone else hit that panic button. And I saw it. Tribal after tribal. Anyone that hit that, whoever hit that button the hardest went home. Right. Because they're doing all the things David is saying not to do. Right. Scheming too much. Getting too emotional. Right.

[01:25:46] Or not scheming and plotting at all. Shout out Stephanie of season 48. Right. So, you know, if you hit that panic button, it's over. And I feel like, you know, the moment she said that in her confessional, I was like, oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I agree. I think her emotions messed with her there.

[01:26:07] But, you know, even just for completeness, if the alternate reality plan was already in place, you know, obviously, then in that case, her making this gut decision at the last minute didn't matter. And so. If that's the case, while it still wasn't a good move, you know, in general, it, you know, wouldn't have ended up really playing a role since she should have come clean earlier. Yeah, you're right.

[01:26:35] So now if it was the alternate alternate version, the one that James first suggested, where it was going to be a tie and revote situation, then it might have because Cedric, you know, could just flip that. But now we're getting into, you know, Marvel universe, you know, parallel universe. It's like the plan and the backup plan and the backup plan and the backup plan. Yeah. There's too many things happening right now. All right.

[01:27:02] So we'll move on to the fifth rule, which reminds players they need to pretend to be nice and play the social game. Liz, you're the expert. How did Bianca do? I think she did. All right. I think I think she pretty much nailed this as best as she could, like in the final game, right in her final day or even days. And we didn't see a lot of her like making the bonds on that new tribe after the swap.

[01:27:28] But I think in, you know, her original tribe, you know, she she was wheeling and dealing. People seem to like her, you know, even though maybe, you know, Thomas was her number one. But I think even for someone to say this is my number one, this is my girl. You know, you got to be friendly. Somebody's got to like you. Right. I don't know if I could say that for my game. I don't think anyone was like, Liz, my number one.

[01:27:58] Except Q was like, I'm taking her to the end. Yeah, literally, literally. And I'm sure he would back me up on that. He's kind of like, yeah, I definitely wanted to take her. But I think she did a good job. She just, you know, got really unlucky, honestly. Yeah. I mean, she you know, there was even a secret scene of her realizing that like almost all the rest of her tribe was made up of athletes or jocks. She was the theater kid.

[01:28:27] But she still did her best to fit in. And from what we can tell, she didn't really have any problems in that regard. Yeah. Yeah. Once she got to the swap tribe, she said in her interviews that she worked to form a relationship with Cedric. And even though she was only there for a few days, they had some close bonding moments we didn't see. The thing is. In the second rule, I referenced our Why Justin Lost podcast and how Cedric's decision was primarily an emotional one at the end of the day.

[01:28:56] And those emotions came through his social connections to Cedric. So as much as he and say might have some distrust issues going on right now and Bianca might have felt she was getting very close to Cedric. I still think his social and emotional connections with say were they were still there. And, you know, yes, Bianca said she was trying to get into Cedric's head and replace say it's not that easy.

[01:29:25] And it's especially not easy in either of our two possible scenarios because option one, Cedric knew she was lying to him the whole time. Or option two, she revealed that she had been lying to him after trying to get close to him. So either way. He can't trust the relationship.

[01:29:53] You can be together socially, but there has to be some trust there. And he could not trust her. Well, I mean, and look at what happened back with Justin, where the line that say dropped was, I've told you everything from the moment we started talking with each other. And he hasn't. He's lied to you. And so clearly that has a place for Cedric because we saw what he did. He got rid of Justin.

[01:30:22] So, yes, I don't think Cedric's going to take too kindly to anybody keeping something from him for this amount of time. And now that she's dropping it on him, all of a sudden he's going to be like, oh, you finally told me that's so great. No, he's going to be like, you've been lying to me this whole time. I got rid of Justin for doing just that, you know? So, yeah, not a good plan there. All right. Well, the sixth rule warns against being too much of a threat.

[01:30:47] Now, this one I think is a little tricky because under the primary theory, I don't think anyone saw her as inherently a threat, especially after Thomas was voted out. And as she described in interviews, she brought up multiple times how her original tribe was now lower in numbers than Mitch and Chrissy's. So, hey, we're not a threat to anyone. But I don't think that's why the decision was made against her.

[01:31:13] I think it was because that Cedric realized she had been lying to him since the moment they met. And he had believed her possibly until that last minute confession or, you know, the alternate scenario is he never believed her. And so either way, someone who can lie to you that well for that long.

[01:31:39] That that's threatening that person, that type of person has to be neutralized. Yeah. You know, and especially when you're comparing her to a known quantity, like say. You know, like we were talking about the radical honesty of say. You may not like what she's doing. You may not like what she's saying. But you don't have to worry about her line. Yeah. Agree. That's on Applebee's, y'all. That is on Applebee's.

[01:32:11] All right. Well, the seventh rule covers idols and advantages and game mechanics. And we have to discuss, even though Jessica's hinted at it a few times here, the topic that the terrible random dice journey took away the votes of two people and both of them were eliminated at the next opportunity. Yeah. And that sucks. I am certainly not going to defend the journey. And we talked about it two weeks ago and why Justin lost.

[01:32:40] So just to reiterate the main point for anyone who didn't hear it without us getting back onto our soapboxes, because those of you who already have heard it, players should not be forced to go on a journey and risk their vote without any say so. Yes. However. There's one difference here for Bianca. She was on the tribe making the decision about who would go. She was in the same way that Justin was.

[01:33:08] She said in interviews that there had been some sort of decision among the tribe that she and Thomas would go on journeys. And she didn't want to argue the point. But the thing is, she could have argued the point. Yeah. Unlike those that the tribe picked. Justin couldn't argue. He was picked. That was it. That was the end of it. Bye bye. You know, she could have. Of course, she didn't know she would be forced to risk her vote without any choice in that regard. Hmm.

[01:33:38] But the point is, she was not quite in the same situation we have argued and will continue to argue vehemently against. The double force, I'll call it. Yeah. Yeah. And I do think that I thought, well, I thought that that was a very interesting thing to read about, that she and Thomas were like the chosen ones. That to me doesn't make any sense how that came about because I wouldn't want to be the chosen one. And I would be very vocal about that. Like, no, I'm not going.

[01:34:06] So if you would like to designate people to go on these journeys, it's not me. Thank you very much. So I am curious how that came about and why that came about. Because that would seem like a strange decision for the group to come to unless they really wanted to be able to know who has what and where it is.

[01:34:27] So if you're taking two people and kind of isolating them or you're taking two people and utilizing them to your benefit, because then you know that like Thomas was part of the California girls. So I don't know if maybe that was the plan was if, well, if we send Thomas, then we'll know what Thomas has. But then Thomas didn't tell anybody. So I just to me, that really doesn't make any sense that there was like a designation that they were going to be the journey people. Yeah, that is weird.

[01:34:54] I can't imagine that going over well saying like, oh, I'm going. And so is my number one or whatever. Yeah. Didn't sound like she necessarily really wanted to be like she wasn't the one, you know, according to her interviews who stepped up and said it's me and Thomas. The group decision was it was her. She just didn't want to fight back against it. But I'm trying to why wouldn't why would that be what was done? Like, to me, that doesn't make any sense.

[01:35:22] Yeah, we were fighting to go on the journeys and like we we manipulated it. So that only Tevin Hunter and myself would go on the journey because we were in an alliance and we got away with that. And it was awesome.

[01:35:41] But it was so that to y'all's point, so we could control the information so that we could go in and we would know what the you know, what the other players and we all decided together, like who we were picking for the journeys, everything. Like it was very calculated because we wanted to know all that info. So I don't know. I don't know. I mean, that sounds like their tribe was kind of or maybe just her and Thomas like, oh, I don't know. But maybe they were the only ones that volunteered.

[01:36:11] I mean, I suspect Thomas just this is a guess. Knowing what we know about Thomas, I think he wanted to go. Yeah. And I suspect because Bianca was his number one that he was one of the people pushing for her to go as well. Yes, I could see that. You know, and I understand when she says, well, we didn't know we'd be forced. OK. But you did. You knew that after.

[01:36:34] Well, no, because in the past they hadn't, you know, often there had been a choice, you know, play or not risk your vote or not risk your vote. OK, yeah, you're right. There are other there's a couple of things. One. Thomas went first. Well, I guess Thomas lied. Thomas did lie and claim that he was not forced even to her. So she did not know that. But there are other types of journeys.

[01:36:59] I mean, remember the sandwich journey, you know, where you have to either pick a sandwich or be, you know, stuck with with, you know, split idol or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So there are other things that can be negative even without being a forced choice. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, like I said, she should have pushed back about that. Yeah, definitely. Here's the other thing. More importantly than all of that.

[01:37:28] This is going to get me in trouble with some folks. I'm sorry. Bianca was not voted out because she lost her vote. Under either of the scenarios that we're talking about. We just spent a good portion of the last hour and a half talking about how one of two things was going on. Either she had a solid plan ready to go and would have almost certainly made it through this tribal council. But then she made the decision that made Cedric turn on her. Or.

[01:37:57] She was going to be the target, probably in large part because she had lied to them about the result of the journey. While in either case, this was the spark. It was not. You know, I see some people online saying, oh, the journey caused these two people to get voted out. No. It was a contributing factor. It was a spark to some of the actions that followed. It did not cause it. Yes, she lost her vote.

[01:38:26] Yes, she was voted out. Correlation is not causation. You know, she she could not. Yes, exactly. She could have at least told some of them. And this was what I was talking about earlier as a way to build trust, especially when she realized there was a potential crack between, say, and Cedric. It is possible. We don't know. We will never know. It is possible. If she had told one of them.

[01:38:53] That they all would have turned against her and voted her out anyway. OK, then, yes, in that case, we would be able to more easily say the journey did it. But she made the worst possible decision. Lying to them all for days and then telling Cedric at the absolute last minute that was not the journey's fault. All right. Well, I'm going to I'm going to just I got to say this. I disagree with you. So, yeah, I said there would be people. Shocker.

[01:39:23] Yeah, I know. Which is I have a mute button for this one if I want. Oh, look at that. No, see, this is what I disagree with, because if she had gone on the journey. Well, OK, so she goes on the journey and keeps her vote. Yes. Then the conversations that she's expected to have back in her new tribe are different because she's not going to be struggling with this. I have no power. I can't do anything because I don't have a vote.

[01:39:51] So I think her voice is different and I think her approach is going to be different because she actually does have a vote. And then we don't get into all of this. Did she lie or not lie? Because she's going to be like, I have a vote. She's going to tell people like I have a vote. So what are we doing? Like, why are we just like let's let's figure this out. Who am I going to work with? Am I going to work with these two or those two? So, yes, she could have been the targeted person because she's the odd man out and it's going to be Bianca. We all know she went on a journey.

[01:40:19] But if she had come into that new tribe with a vote and legitimately could have been a swing vote, I think it changes everything. Oh, yeah. No, I I agree with all of that. I'm just saying it was not a direct causation. She had things she could have done differently. It affected her play. It impacted her play. It impacted her choices that she could have had. But it's you know, it was not the direct cause. You can't just say Justin lost his vote and he's gone.

[01:40:48] She lost her vote and she's gone. Look, the lost votes caused that. No, Justin took certain actions. She took certain actions. Well, right. And I do think that they're right. And so this is a survivor is a game that is is cause and effect. And if this happens to you, what are you going to do in response to it? But and I and I'm not trying to be on a soapbox again with this. But this is when I have said time and time again, let them play. Oh, yeah.

[01:41:14] And when you are when you are adding components to the game that take away their ability to play in a particular fashion, I take issue with that because it's unfair to the players. They are going to do it. Liz has already talked about that. Like they will eat each other alive. Like that just happens. You don't need to help. So just let it be. And I don't know, Liz, could you have eaten each other alive? Is that within your dietary restrictions? I wasn't. Listen, 39 days. I would have eaten something. Yeah.

[01:41:46] I mean, I hear what Jessica is saying, but at the same time, she could have pretended and done all that. Like she could have just been an excellent liar and been like, yeah, I got to vote. And that is fair. That is fair as well. So it's it is one of those situations where we wouldn't be having the Bianca that we have if she had, as you said, David, made different choices and Liz, you know, acted differently.

[01:42:11] But it's it's just frustrating when the thing that is being thrust upon the players is now something that they necessarily shouldn't have had to be dealing with in the first place. Yeah. I mean, she could have said and I'm not going to math it out here because it's such a hypothetical. She could have said, not only do I have a vote, I got it right. I have an extra vote. You want me on your side? Right. Was that one of the was that the other? That's what that's what that's what Camilla got. Yeah. So that's why I'm asking.

[01:42:41] I couldn't remember the same journey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. But we also know in the first journey, different people got different things. Yeah. Like Mitch got a block of vote while Thomas got a steal a vote. So literally come up with anything and said she had it. Right. I have Jeff Probst chest hair. Yeah. I mean, it allows you to get up and take his spot, you know, like Rome did. I know. I now have four nipples.

[01:43:11] Yeah. That would be David's. I have milk. Yeah. I have milk. Not milk. So. But yeah, I mean, she, you know, she could have if she had realized what we talked about earlier in regards to that people are going to talk and they're going to know you either lost something or gained something. She could have come up with something that she gained. So they didn't know that she lost the vote and just told them that.

[01:43:41] Make a fake idol. Be like, look what I got. Yeah. I mean, it literally could have been anything at that point. I mean, the idols really are a little. Yeah. They're not very. They get. Oh, they get. So, I mean, they're kind of project. Yeah. They're kind of like how Thomas described Eva's bracelet for Joe's daughter, you know, that she just cut some.

[01:44:06] She just cut some beads off of her, you know, off of this thing, off of her water bottle. Oh, God, that was so funny. Thank you for reminding me of that. It's so petty. That's so me. I'd be like. You're swooning over this, Joe, please. You got to go. All right. Well, we can discuss Appendix A, which talks about players keeping their end goals in mind when voting.

[01:44:35] And, you know, we talk about voting out the weak and the strong and the weak and the strong. Now, once again, we have a situation where weak and strong was. Determined completely by alliances, not challengeability. Mm hmm. And we have spent a fair amount of time here already talking about how Cedric and others might have viewed Bianca as a potential ally in light of the fact that she revealed at the last minute how she had been lying to him.

[01:45:05] Mm hmm. And again, whether it was because of that or because they knew she was lying the whole time. Neither of those makes her a good candidate to be an ally headed towards the merge. Right. Yeah. I think that's what it comes down to. Who can you work with? And the merge is coming. Right. Yeah. You know, and they should all know that. I mean, the math is right there. And so, yeah. Do you want to? Yeah. This person has been lying to you. Like I said, either scenario. Yeah.

[01:45:35] This person has been lying to you. And on top of that, there's also the issue that Bianca had a bunch of potential allies from her original tribe. Right. So she I mean, I know they didn't have the full six, but there were still five. You know, and meanwhile, though, you you put her up against say, well, Cedric can basically. We.

[01:46:03] For say to continue working with him, she will be in a position where she will need people to work with her. Right. Not to mention, if you go in there with say, she is one hell of a shield. Amen. Yeah. Yeah. She has a shield that stands there and yells. Hi, I'm a shield. Yeah. I have a little more tact, David. Hashtag one more vote. Yeah.

[01:46:32] Now, I was originally planning to spend a chunk of my time here going over my thoughts on why Cedric would only tell Chrissy. Because when it first happened, everybody was like, why would he only tell Chrissy? And a lot of us had all sorts of ideas. Many of them are were very good ones, if I do say so myself. But as I mentioned earlier, part of the start of the formation of the new ideas in my head

[01:46:58] was Bianca saying in her interviews that she was certain, certain Cedric didn't tell Chrissy before tribal council because she told him a few minutes beforehand and watched him like a hawk till that. Now, originally, I had thought, well, clearly he did tell her somehow. And so I went through. Yeah, I had already watched it twice. I went through and re-rewatched the tribal council scenes again to see who was sitting

[01:47:27] where, who walked in with whom, who could have told her or when could he have told her? Nothing. You know, maybe he broke survivor rules and whispered to her after they were locked down to go to tribal council or on a boat. But I really can't see Cedric of all people doing that. Or, you know, I thought maybe something happened through hand signals during tribal council because they were sitting on the two stools in the back and it just wasn't shown.

[01:47:54] And, you know, I also wondered, did Mitch know? Because Mitch looked surprised when Bianca's name was revealed the first time. But then after the vote was done, he was very, very composed. And, you know, those surprise looks, they can come from any time in tribal council, really. The more I thought, the more the puzzle suggested the alternate theory that I have been discussing.

[01:48:22] Now, maybe I'm overthinking things. I would never do that. But the more I thought about how Bianca was talking in her interviews, she was emphasizing. There was no way Cedric could have told anyone before tribal council. She was very clear, very sure about that. It really felt to me like she was trying to tell us something. Now, we know in interviews, players aren't allowed to talk about what hasn't been revealed.

[01:48:52] You know, we saw this in the hole when Dwight went out and he had to act like his idol had gone with him because it hadn't been revealed yet. But it didn't. OK, but she couldn't say certain things, even if she knew them, even if she had heard about them afterwards. This may have been her hint to us. But, of course, we still don't know any of it for sure.

[01:49:16] Well, the one very interesting, not that that wasn't all interesting, but the very interesting added component to this is that Chrissy is the one explaining to say she lost her vote. And so it's not just a matter of whether or not Bianca was the target to begin with. It's the fact that Chrissy is so adamant she lost her vote. Did you notice there's only four votes in there?

[01:49:43] So perhaps Chrissy just put it together while she was sitting there that like, oh, there's only four votes. She lost her vote and you didn't know that. So maybe he never had to tell Chrissy because Chrissy knew enough from the information that she had gotten from Camilla that you either lost your vote or you gained a vote. And so Chrissy might have just been really great in tribal council and thinking on the fly going, there's only four votes in there.

[01:50:08] So she might have just put it together in that moment because that's what made it feel like, oh, he had to have told Chrissy because how else would Chrissy know? Well, she did math and she went, oh, wait, I know she went on that journey, too. So she lost her vote. And so we were already planning on targeting Bianca. And now we know that Bianca was pulling the wool over our eyes and didn't tell us this.

[01:50:30] And so I'm curious if maybe that's what added to this idea that he had to have told Chrissy because she was the one that ended up announcing and explaining to say. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it was very simple math and Chrissy could, you know, to save her own butt from, you know, voting, you know, voting, however way, because we all know say is just going to say whatever she wants. Right. So she might just say like, oh, this is what I had to do.

[01:51:00] And like, I knew something and I'm going to tell you right away and make myself appear smarter than you. You know, like, I mean, sometimes I would be saying stuff like, oh, yeah, you didn't know that. I'm like, I don't know that either. But like, come on, get with them. You are on the bottom. You better come with me. You know, it's all new information, but no one needs to know that. Right. That could be her thing.

[01:51:25] Like, oh, maybe now that Bianca's out, I've got to make somebody feel inferior so that they come with me. Well, right. Because they are supposed to be together. So Chrissy interjecting and saying like, oh, you didn't know that. Like and then say looks at Cedric. She's like, did you know? And he nodded. So it right. So now she's going to be mad at him. Well, so it's going to be more of a ripple effect. I mean, I'll I'll have some thoughts on that later when we get to our predictions.

[01:51:54] I do wonder why he just nodded in the moment instead of instead of saying more. But then again, if this alternate theory was all hidden from us, maybe he did say more and they cut it so that it wouldn't all be explained. He nodded and said, oh, yeah, that was our plan all along. We knew that's still going to upset say if she was not. Yeah. So, you know, right.

[01:52:19] And maybe it's maybe we see in the next episode that Bianca also told Chrissy. I mean, there's a lot we could see in the next episode. Yeah. I mean, we're going to see something. I would like to have seen it this episode. You know, think of the poor podcasters, Survivor Production. Come on. Now, when this all happened, the question was raised. I saw it being raised by Omer on Blue Sky.

[01:52:48] I know he was on Know It Alls, but on Blue Sky, he was raising it at the time. And I saw others talking about it as well. That why would Chrissy take the risk of voting Bianca when it could have meant Cedric and say would then take her out? Like, what if Cedric had been lying to her? I think the answer came in an earlier confessional when she said, I trust Cedric. He's not the type of guy who would look you in the eye and lie.

[01:53:14] And, you know, then on top of it, she was able to put her aside, her annoyance at say to vote Bianca, which was the right thing to do for her. So I think she had a solid read on both Cedric and that situation overall. Yeah. Balls of steel, honestly. I commend. Let's release the Chrissy edit.

[01:53:41] Now, with all of this said, in either scenario, I do think Cedric made the right move for his long-term game, which, of course, is what it comes down to for Appendix A. He knows where he stands with say. He has a good idea where he stands with Chrissy and Mitch. After what happened with Bianca, either way, he knew that she lied to him. Yeah. Yeah. Gotta go. Yes. That's right. All right.

[01:54:10] So with all of that, with all our parallel universes, it is time to wrap things up. So Liz, what are your final thoughts on Bianca? I think that Bianca is a mystery wrapped up in an enigma. I don't think we should. It's a quote from something, but I can't remember. I would have liked to see more.

[01:54:38] Like we just said, you know, we're missing something here. Right. But overall, I thought she was a fun character. I loved the idea of her and Thomas. And yeah, I said in my very first confessional that I thought I was going to win Survivor because I was the luckiest person I'd ever met. And I think maybe Bianca is, you know, one of the most unluckiest players in a while.

[01:55:10] I love that. You couldn't drop your mic. So you ducked away from your mic. That's right. She ducked away. So I do think that the pork poor Bianca. I'm going to it to echo that sentiment that Liz just just mentioned, because it does feel very unlucky. She ends up losing her vote, getting swapped and being the odd man out on a swap tribe.

[01:55:37] And all of those things are just horrifically scary. You don't have a vote. You feel like you don't have power. And here you are with four people that you've never worked with before. And you want to be the swing vote. Everybody feels like that's a comfortable place. But if you can't get to be the swing vote, then you're the person that's going to go home. So you are in a very, very difficult spot. And it's an uphill battle. And unfortunately, Bianca made decisions based upon the unfortunate hand she was dealt

[01:56:06] and didn't make decisions that furthered her game in the way that she obviously would have loved, which is to still be in the game. So Bianca, your superpower you indicated was your positivity. And I appreciate the fact that you continue to try to be positive, despite everything Jeff was throwing at you. And I appreciate so much that you were throwing that out in the confessionals too. Like, thanks, Jeff. This is great, Jeff.

[01:56:34] Really, the shade I noticed, I loved it. I thought that was great. But Bianca, I was worried about you from the start, because you do seem to be someone who could have come across as too much, because you are such a fan of this game. And you love Boston Rob so much. And you had all of these things, survivor-related from the time you were eight years old, that really put you in a place that could have been really bad right off the rip.

[01:57:03] And you actually did exceptionally well until you got to this point where there are parts of this game that are outside of your control, and it's so unfortunate. So Bianca, I feel for you. I'm sorry that it ended up in this way. But I would also love to add that, David, you might have put this in my brain. And Liz, this is inspired by you. They should definitely do a Got Milk ad with David. I'm just going to throw that out there.

[01:57:31] So Got Milk, if you're listening, there's your ad right there. It's like Calvin Klein, but with this guy drinking milk. I mean, come on. You're done. I would like to volunteer as the creative director of that. All right. Well, yeah, as you said, Jessica, you know, Bianca was a big fan. And it's always sad to see a big fan like that, you know, go out when they feel like they have so much more to give, which she clearly. But she said in her final words.

[01:58:03] Yes. Yes, it is. I think usually not every big fan is a nice person, you know, but most of them are. I'm so mean. Go on. Final thoughts, David. Bianca said in her final words, I realized what a dumb decision I made. I just screwed up. I trusted the wrong people and I made the wrong choice. Now, at the time when she said that, it made sense to her. And under either scenario we've been discussing, I agree that she made the wrong choice.

[01:58:31] But I wouldn't say she trusted the wrong people, but rather made the wrong decision about trusting people. In fact, I don't know that I'd even say it was about trust so much as it was about protecting herself. No matter which play, which plan was in play heading to tribal council, Bianca should have known that her cover story about the journey could have easily been blown.

[01:58:57] At that point, she had two possible avenues on this tribe. Either she could tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to one side or the other. Or she could keep completely silent and run it through to the end. Instead, she made the worst of all possible choices by telling Cedric at the last moment. Either he already distrusted her because he knew she had been lying about the journey,

[01:59:26] or now she planted that distrust into his head just as they were about to head to tribal council. Neither of these was a good option. If Cedric had truly been on her side at that moment, Bianca said in interviews that she thought it was better to prepare him for the moment. But it really wasn't. I know she felt like she was doing a calculation to keep herself around for the longer game.

[01:59:52] But the missing piece of that calculation was, as I said earlier and we've talked about before, you first need to ensure you're there for the longer game. Mm-hmm. And if she really did want to think about the long game, she should have revealed her journey information sooner to gain the trust that she wanted. What Bianca thought was a way to show honesty probably felt like manipulation and more lying to Cedric. Mm-hmm.

[02:00:18] Well, I say more lying and either lying or confirm that he already knew she had been lying. She was trying to set herself up for the future by saying, look, Cedric, I can be honest with you. But to him, it more likely sounded like, look, Cedric, I can be a really good liar. Whatever positives she tried to accomplish in her relationship with Cedric were built on the foundation of a lie.

[02:00:45] Bianca took a big risk at the end by telling Cedric about her lie. If he wasn't already planning to vote her out, well, that sealed the deal. But maybe when Cedric was telling her earlier about how he voted Justin out for not telling him about his lost vote, maybe there was a hint and she didn't take the hint in a timely fashion. Waiting until that moment was the worst of all possible worlds.

[02:01:11] She didn't tell him early enough to allow that honesty to form the basis of a new relationship, but she did reveal her dishonesty to him before the vote. And no matter which scenario ends up being the real one, that is why Bianca lost. There we are. There we are. So thanks again to Jeff, James and everyone else who was involved in those discussions on Blue Sky and some text messages and other things regarding...

[02:01:40] Or the alternate universe. Yes, yes. And before we get to our predictions for the next episode, I want to let everyone know, you know, we talked a lot about guts in this episode. And there is no one who is more associated with the word gut in Survivor than Kellen Bechtold of Survivor Ghost Island. And she will be our guest next week. There we are.

[02:02:08] So we'll have to follow up with her and see what she thought of all this gut talk. Now, we also want to remind everyone that the rules we just discussed are available in poster form. Yep. And in poster on a T-shirt form. And in checklist on a T-shirt form. So again, go to robhaswebsite.com slash yxlostfeed and you can order all of those.

[02:02:37] Yes, you should.

[02:03:06] If you want to create your own content and make money from it, you can go directly to lizwilcox.com. Hit the hot pink button in the top right-hand corner. You can't miss it. It'll give you everything you need to get started. Very cool. I don't know. Making money sounds good. Yeah, we love money. And David from Season 48. Yes. And click that... Yeah. David should definitely go click that button, you're saying? Yes, he should click that button for sure. Yes, sir.

[02:03:40] Click that hot pink button, David. What are we doing? I'm so sorry. This is just like a running gag of me on the internet now. Just random places hitting on David unbeknownst to him. That's okay. I'll create an Instagram reel and tag him in it. Oh, God. I love that. Please do. Make sure you put a pink button that he... I think I put on the Survivor...

[02:04:08] There was a Survivor CBS reel and he was in it. And it was like, what would you name this alliance? And I was like, future billionaires ex-husband club. Because it had all the guys from the season. They all liked it. Oh, good. No comments, though. Yeah. No weights. Oh, goodness. Amazing. Well, I don't have a website like Liz Wilcox does to help make you money.

[02:04:37] However, I am at JessicaLewis89 on both Blue Sky and Twitter. And also, I am at JessicaLewis6789 on Instagram. You can certainly follow me at any of those locations. Message me if you'd like. I am not on social media, though, nearly as much as David Bloomberg.

[02:04:57] David Bloomberg has taken over so many platforms that he has to have a link tree in order to list all of the locations that you can find the incredible content that he is creating and putting out to the universe. So, David, please talk about your link tree. Okay. You can find it at linktree.com. David Bloomberg with a dot before the EE in the URL there. You can find me on Blue Sky directly as at David Bloomberg.

[02:05:23] I encourage anyone at any of the other places to come over to Blue Sky for all your survivor discussions. I've been posting, of course, at least two or three, sometimes more reality TV short videos every day on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram is at David Bloomberg TV. Right now, they're a mix, of course, of U.S. survivor, Australian survivor, including many wide blank lost videos. Finished up Deal or No Deal Island.

[02:05:53] Finished up the Joe Schmo show. There's some from Extracted, occasionally from Amazing Race, but quite honestly, I think I've only gotten one from the season so far there. But I've also added now there's Million Dollar Secret. Is that right? Million Dollar Secret. That sounds like Liz Wilcox. Secret Million Dollar. So I can't remember the name now. I'm suddenly blanking on it. It's on Netflix.

[02:06:22] And it's really bad that I can't remember the name on it because I will be podcasting about it on the Tradar podcast, which obviously usually is about the traders. But this is a very traders like game. As a matter of fact, I have seen articles accusing Netflix of blatantly copying some of the traders formula, which I don't think it is. I think it is a game of perception and, you know, but. They definitely missed out on casting Liz Wilcox. I mean, come on. Yes.

[02:06:51] I mean, holler at me. Yes. Available. So, yeah, you can, you know, find that once we start podcasting on that at the Tradar. With that. We are coming to the merge. Mm hmm. And so we have predictions. Mm hmm. But that's about all. Well, some guy on the preview said something about the strong sticking together, but I'm I'm not.

[02:07:20] Yeah, I'm not putting any of any stock in that because it was probably one of 100 different things that could be taken out of context for a preview. What we do know. Joe, Shaheen, Camilla and Kyle have sworn loyalty to each other. Mm hmm. Joe also has the super tight bond with Eva. Mm hmm. Eva and Star came together along with the rest of that swap tribe.

[02:07:49] So now Eva and Joe have their own independent groups with some overlap from their original tribe. Right. And the original Siva tribe remains untouched, but also has some potential unresolved issues because it seemed like charity wasn't exactly well liked by just about anyone but Mitch. Mm hmm. Then, of course, there is say who we saw has been making enemies all over the place.

[02:08:17] And Bianca even mentioned in her interviews that nobody on her tribe wanted to work with say going forward. And of course, one big question for the merge is something we mentioned earlier. Can Cedric bring say back closer to him or did he cause her to mistrust him even more by not telling her about Bianca's lost vote? I think he'll be able to explain.

[02:08:42] That he didn't find out about the lost vote until just before tribal council. And it will show that, hey, I had the opportunity to take you out. And instead, I stuck by you. That could win her back for now. She also might not react positively. But again, where else does she have to go? Right. So either way, I think there will be two main people up for the vote. Charity and say.

[02:09:13] Of course, one or both of them could end up safe and either make it obvious who's going or throw everything into chaos. But aside from that possibility. I think there's a reason we have seen Liz's future ex-millionaire boyfriend, husband, David, talking about throwing charity under the bus.

[02:09:38] And we got snippets of charity's comments saying that say was a sore loser, which at least to me made charity look bad. We talked about that earlier. I'm going to predict charity is the one who goes. Well, honestly, that was my choice as well, because just looking at the dynamics and who has a relationship with who.

[02:10:02] I don't feel like anyone, every person that I look at, I can see, oh, well, they've got someone else who's going to be looking out for them. Even like I was leaning towards David, because if they just want to decide we're at the merge or mergatory, whatever this is actually going to be. We want to start taking out what could be potential challenge beasts. Right. That's kind of an idea that still exists a little bit.

[02:10:24] But he has Chrissy, and I feel like that's someone who would necessarily fight for David for now, because they also have the numbers. Right. But even though they have the numbers, they have the numbers. So charity is just almost an extra at this point for them, because I don't see anybody fighting for her either.

[02:10:48] Like, I know Mitch is there, but I don't feel like he's going to be like, yeah, I have to stick my neck out for charity. So I agree. I think she's going to be in a tough spot. Yeah. I was going to say charity or star and only. Only saying star, because honestly, the screen time, you know, just makes sense that.

[02:11:15] Or, you know, she's third place. Like, I don't I don't know. Chrissy, Chrissy is definitely losing in fire, according to screen time. So I just assumed I I I predicted after episode one that Mary would lose it fire because there was such a big deal made about how she had never done it before. And it started like this. And it was, you know, no problem.

[02:11:42] Can I mention one thing that I didn't say it about Mary? Yes. Did you all like catch how she reacted after she finished, like getting the ball, like in the in the hole when she was her turn? It was just like, like, she was just like, no, she looked so like hardcore and was like, yeah, look what I just did. It was great. Like, go if you haven't watched it, go back and watch it.

[02:12:10] But she's just like, yeah, done. I love that. Amazing. I love that. Look at Mary. So entertaining. Look at her go. Yeah, I think I think what you guys are saying about charity makes a lot of sense, especially given what we've seen in the last two episodes of her. But, you know, it's never an easy vote. No. You never know. I mean, maybe Mitch does, you know, try to go to bat with her.

[02:12:37] And maybe that's why Joe is saying, no, us challenge beasts have to stick together. You know, don't put your neck out. So, yeah, I still think. And then maybe star because, you know, it's like, oh, she's kind of a loose cannon. You know, she gave that idol away. Let's just get her out before she can try to make any real decisions. All right. You got to pick one. Do I?

[02:13:07] I'll go charity. We'll go three for three charity. All right. Sorry, boo bear. It's a clean sweep for charity. We rarely get that. Jessica and I rarely agree, let alone all three people. And I will be we will be wrong because Jessica picked charity. So quite a possibility. You never know. All right. Well, as we wrap up, I want to encourage people to check out the RHAP patron program at Rob has a website dot com slash patron.

[02:13:33] You can get access to all the various special podcasts that are put out just for patrons, plus Facebook groups and discord. And, you know, support shows like ours and everything on the network by becoming a patron at Rob has a website dot com slash patron. And make sure you're subscribed to all the RHAP survivor podcasts by going to we know survivor dot com. You can see all of the different different survivor. Right. Yes.

[02:14:00] And and then you can select your podcast service of choice. There's all the great content like us, the know it all, the B&B Survivor International and more. So definitely head to we know survivor dot com if you're not already subscribed. Yes. And you should definitely, definitely become a patron if you are not. We want to thank Scott, Jess and Doug, the RHAP team for all of the incredible work that you do and all the people that work with you, not just for the work you do on this show,

[02:14:29] but all of the content that does exist at we know reality TV and we know survivor with RHAP. And thank you to Will from America for the theme song that was created for the audio version of this podcast. It is lovely and very catchy and it's great. And we would like to thank Liz Wilcox, the millionaire who has joined us for podcast. It's been lovely and fun.

[02:14:54] And I really think that you should put that on a T-shirt that that was a good one that you came up with there about the brothel. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me. Thanks for listening. I can't wait for the next episode to see if we are wrong or right. Yes. Yes. Well, with two alternate scenarios, you know, one way I got I would hope that there isn't another one out there that nobody thought of. But yes. Thank you so much, Liz. It is great having you back on here.

[02:15:24] Thank you, of course, again, Jessica, for, you know, not lying to me about losing a vote or missing a vote or, you know. So I you're in my heart, David. I would never lie to you. And we will see everyone in a week with Kellen Bechtold. So till then. Bye. Bye, friends. Bye.

[02:16:06] Bye. This is why blind glass. Baby, this is why blind glass.