TV for Real: Agatha All Along with Frannie Marin

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[00:00:19] Und willkommen back to TV for Real, where reality and scripted TV collide. I am Sasha Joseph and of course Mike is away. Maybe he was taken by the road, but fear not, okay? Because when the world outside your window is not great, we rely on Jason Reed to come help us talk and take us down the witch's road. Welcome, Jason. We're talking Marvel again.

[00:01:04] Jason Reed, our old intro brings me back the memories. I'm here. We're here to talk Marvel. I was a little nervous after watching Agatha All Along when you decided to assemble a group of people together. I didn't know what was going to happen when I got here. I'm glad my soul has been taken. My life force is still with me. I don't know if it works differently on a StreamYard. Are you going to try and take all of our internet data? How does it work digitally? I don't know. But I'm glad to be here talking Marvel with you again. It's like old times. I'm so happy to be here.

[00:01:34] I'm glad to be here and talking Agatha. Yes. And listen, we have to finish our coven and we have to bring in the most powerful, okay? So we had to bring in Franny Marin from Survivor 44 to come talk Agatha all along. The people have been wanting this, okay? They said, I need to bring in Franny to talk Agatha. And I said, duh, covered. Here we are. So welcome, Franny.

[00:01:58] Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. If you mean the people wanted this, the people, it's me. I wanted this. I definitely just like yelled at Rob about how much I like Agatha all along, you know, in the hopes of cementing my place in this coven. So I'm so psyched to be here with you too. Period. Yeah. I was like, get in here.

[00:02:17] Cause this is like, I, I watch so little TV. Like it is really Survivor or bust for me. Um, but yeah, like the WandaVision, Agatha, like, Ooh, that is my second baby. And so I'm so, so excited to be here talking about it today.

[00:02:32] Yes. We're, we're so happy. And I, maybe I make a fake promise to not take any of your powers, but we'll see how I feel at the end. Maybe there's a kiss somewhere there.

[00:02:43] Listen, okay. Franny, you, you started talking about this. Yes. So I'd love to hear from you and Jason, you know what? Yeah. What drew you then as a non, maybe T scripted TV watcher, um, you know, with, with this whole Wanda and Agatha, what, what's, what's drawing you here?

[00:03:02] Um, my like Marvel journey in general, I'll zoom out a little bit, um, started when it was announced that there was going to be this, you know, the two part movie, this Avengers infinity war and then Avengers end game.

[00:03:15] And I had not engaged with Marvel really at all. Um, before hearing about those movies, I think I had seen Thor Ragnarok, which like everybody saw, I was like, this is funny, but I just didn't get the lore.

[00:03:26] And I heard that this thing was coming and I love that kind of stuff. I love when there's like a culmination with all these Easter eggs building up to something. I was like, I got to get involved in that. So I watched like every single Marvel movie and became like a huge fan in a very short period of time.

[00:03:42] And then, you know, as everyone did like die to happy death in the theater, watching both of those movies, um, take me back to that time.

[00:03:52] And then, uh, afterwards Wanda was like my favorite character, love the Scarlet witch. Like she is such a bad-ass.

[00:03:59] And so Wanda vision was the perfect thing to get into to, you know, be like a up-to-date current Marvel fan, especially during COVID.

[00:04:07] Like that was such a intense lockdown time. That was really a comfort show for me. Um, and so, yeah, and I loved Catherine Han, loved Agatha.

[00:04:16] I was like, how could I not watch Agatha all along? I've been like so excited for this.

[00:04:20] Oh, love that. I love, yes. And Jason, you know, Jason is our resident comic book expert. Jason and I have been through some shit coverage.

[00:04:31] So, you know, how are, how are you feeling here? I'm feeling good. You know, we've, you know, Sasha, Sasha and I have covered Marvel shows.

[00:04:39] We've been through the highs of Loki, the lows of She-Hulk. Uh, so we've been through it all.

[00:04:44] I would say, oh my God, I blocked that out. Thank you. Like, I'm like, Lydia, I blocked it out.

[00:04:51] Now I remembered that my part of that, my time journey there and I'm, I'm, why would you bring that up?

[00:04:56] Yeah, why would you do that? Uh, but yeah, so, you know, WandaVision, I loved, it was never my top, my top show, but I really enjoyed it.

[00:05:05] Uh, Agatha, I think was a great successor and in, in a lot of ways, uh, for me is better than WandaVision.

[00:05:12] We'll talk about it. We'll get into it. Um, but yeah, so I'm, you know, I'm happy that we're, we're here talking about this show

[00:05:17] because it was really a great surprise for me, I would say, because, uh, you know, I was talking,

[00:05:22] I had talked to Grace back when Wolverine and Deadpool came out about Wolverine and Deadpool

[00:05:26] about how like Marvel's biggest villain right now is expectation. Right. So it's like, there's so many

[00:05:31] people are expecting things and they don't deliver on what we as fans, you know, stunt cast and want.

[00:05:40] But I think the expectation for Agatha was kind of low because it's like, okay, Agatha was a great

[00:05:46] character two years ago on WandaVision. No one's been thinking a lot about it. So this kind of snuck up

[00:05:51] on us and came out and was like, oh shit, like this is, this is good. Like this is some good stuff.

[00:05:56] And I think because expectations weren't super high, we could come in not expecting like a whole bunch

[00:06:02] and be pleasantly surprised with what we got.

[00:06:05] Yeah. I same for me, Jason, where I was like, oh, here we go again. What, you know, me mid nonsense.

[00:06:13] Are they going to give me that I'm going to have to lap up because I'm a Marvel girly. So here I'm back.

[00:06:19] And then I started watching and to me, even from the start of episode one, I said, oh, this just feels

[00:06:25] different. And maybe Franny, you're right. Like it's this WandaVision, you know, like a universe that

[00:06:32] we need to live in because that's where it feels good. Everything else doesn't. And is Marvel just

[00:06:39] doing magic? Well, is that what it is? You know, Harry Potter who, and is that where we're moving?

[00:06:44] I mean, people that watch Doctor Strange, the second Doctor Strange might have some words with

[00:06:49] you, but I don't know. This magic, they did fantastic, but we'll talk about Doctor Strange

[00:06:53] while maybe another time.

[00:06:54] We're just going to act like things don't exist here and that's it. Okay. Thank you.

[00:07:01] But yeah. And I, I also was like, I'm still going to watch it because it feels exciting. I loved

[00:07:06] WandaVision, not my number one. Obviously, Miss Marvel was my number one. And, you know, I'm still

[00:07:12] going to enjoy it, but whatever. Let's see. And then I started watching and then I said, this is going

[00:07:18] to be amazing. And I've watched it twice now and it still kills me on it. Like I am finding new stuff

[00:07:26] every single time. And storytelling is beautiful. The end, wild. Because I don't understand.

[00:07:35] What happened, teen?

[00:07:36] It's not every show that can introduce you to three or four brand new characters.

[00:07:43] And you really care about each of these characters by the end of their journey here.

[00:07:48] And just the, just, you know, Sasha, you said to rewatch it. I rewatched it too. I don't know

[00:07:51] about you, Franny, but the rewatchability of this is it begs you to rewatch it at the

[00:07:56] end of episode eight, nine. So it's like, I have to rewatch to see all the little moments

[00:08:00] that I missed knowing now the truth. So in, in those ways, the series like hits it out

[00:08:07] of the park with both character emotion. And, you know, it's, it's a Marvel show, but it's

[00:08:12] not like, not until episode eight, do we get into the big, like lights action. Like it's,

[00:08:18] it's like Kevin Feige stepped into that after episode seven. He's like, okay, but where's

[00:08:21] all the, where's all the lights? Where's all the action?

[00:08:23] Where's the boom, boom?

[00:08:25] Yeah. They're like, fine. We'll give you some in episode eight. Like take it and just be

[00:08:29] gone. Let it, let us tell our great story. Here's a little light show. But most of it

[00:08:33] was just this fantastic, these fantastic stories about journey and about emotion and about like

[00:08:39] who these characters are at their core and what they're looking for and why. So for those

[00:08:44] reasons, like it really does, the show really like does a number of things very,

[00:08:48] very well.

[00:08:51] Love that. And for any, do you have any characters that you just fell in love with?

[00:08:56] Yeah. I mean, obviously I loved Lilia. I felt like that was her episode was like the strongest

[00:09:02] one. And exactly what you were just saying, Jason, like incredible that they were able

[00:09:07] to give us so much buy-in in such a short time to this character. Like I thought every moment

[00:09:12] with her was so strong. It was so fun process of trying to put together all of her outbursts.

[00:09:18] Throughout the show and then have them like so clearly laid out and like all just slot

[00:09:23] perfectly together. Oh, it was so satisfying. I loved it. Amazing. Yeah. Honestly. I mean

[00:09:30] like every character, I also loved Rio. Like I thought Aubrey Plaza did such a good job, especially

[00:09:35] like, I think the first episode felt really different from the rest of the series. Like

[00:09:41] it does feel really separate. But thinking back to that one, like her role and like her

[00:09:46] relationship with Agatha is so interesting there. Like I love the way that she's introduced.

[00:09:52] I really, really hope that we get to see more of her as death. I think that she's like so exciting.

[00:09:57] The moment I was like, I just absolutely lost my shit in the moment. Um, it was a second to last

[00:10:02] episode where she like punches through the, uh, so good. Whoa. I did not believe my eyes. I love that.

[00:10:12] It was so good. And like, and like she, she's very like, um, she's a little like irreverent or

[00:10:19] something. Like even the way she just like skips down the road at the beginning or she like, you know,

[00:10:25] I love when we're, when the coven is first introduced to Rio and she does the thing with the voice where

[00:10:29] she's like, ah, I'm like a green witch, the green witch. Like it, it felt like this meta joke where

[00:10:35] like, you know, that Aubrey Plaza is quirky. She's not a traditional like Marvel casting choice. And

[00:10:42] she just like really made it her own, which I loved. Yeah. And you really have to get the casting

[00:10:47] right to really pull off those, those dramatic changes in character, uh, that, that Aubrey's able

[00:10:53] to pull off. And you mentioned that, that practical stunt where they just, you know, stripped down the

[00:10:59] scenery in the back where it's like, Oh my God, that was such a great practical effect. And I felt,

[00:11:03] it felt really great that this show was mostly felt mostly practical. Of course, there's CGI stuff

[00:11:09] in there, but it felt mostly practical where, you know, Sasha, you and I talked, which was

[00:11:14] like all CGI and not a lot of it done well. And to see this show pull off what it did with,

[00:11:21] with seemingly mostly practical effects, especially with that, with that, that slash in the, in the

[00:11:26] background was like, Oh my God, that was fantastic. It's such a great use of scenery. It's such a great

[00:11:31] use of set design, uh, that it really just, it blew me. It blew my mind when I saw, I was like,

[00:11:36] Oh my God, that's for real. That happened for real. Yes. Well, and like, it does, it feels really

[00:11:41] refreshing compared to like, especially, yeah. And I'm thinking like multiverse of madness,

[00:11:46] do like so much of the like magic and power in Marvel has gotten so CGI that you like it, it, um,

[00:11:52] I feel like it loses its impact when every character's power just feels like they like

[00:11:57] pew light at someone else. And like, we totally got some of that, but I feel like the, that, uh,

[00:12:03] you know, like we said, like Kevin Feige just came in and said like, okay, we need to throw this in.

[00:12:07] Like that was so clearly not the strength of the show. Um, and, uh, it was refreshing. Like it really

[00:12:12] felt like something new. I also with that really enjoyed their choice to, you know, have this kind

[00:12:19] of classic Marvel fight scene in the penultimate episode, um, because I know I loved WandaVision so

[00:12:26] much, but I found the last episode of WandaVision, like little disappointing. You know what I mean?

[00:12:33] Like I, I loved all of the hex and like all of the Easter eggs of the different, um, eras. And I love

[00:12:39] going back and forth between like the hex and reality. But at the end, when it's just like,

[00:12:43] we're flying and we're shooting, you know, light, it, it felt like it cheapened the rest of the show

[00:12:48] for me. So I loved that you have that moment, you get the classic Marvel, but then the real end

[00:12:54] is this emotional journey with, with Agatha and her son. Like that was so much more satisfying.

[00:12:59] Yeah. I, I just love this word satisfying. Cause that's what I felt watching the whole thing.

[00:13:04] You're right. The eight, eight and nine, um, eight felt like the show and the nine felt like the

[00:13:10] Marvel, um, piece of it. And they were still able to just do such good character building.

[00:13:17] And why did I care about people that I feel like it was revealed to us pretty like maybe mid season,

[00:13:24] right? That like only X amount of witches are going to make it out or whatever. And even then

[00:13:29] I still cared about people I met, right? Like episode one, we're Kitty Foreman just going down.

[00:13:36] Yeah. Yeah. You know, I shouldn't name. Okay. Yeah. Sharon Davis. I know what her name is,

[00:13:41] but it's just the fact that miss Sharon Davis or Mrs. Hart, uh, AKA Kitty Foreman, you know,

[00:13:48] goes so quickly and you still wanted her to be there. And you still wanted her to come back,

[00:13:53] uh, when, instead of when Rio shows up to me, that just shows the strength of character,

[00:13:58] the strength of storytelling and how satisfying every little trial felt. Like I was like, make this

[00:14:05] into the escape rooms immediately. And I, well, I was worried. I was worried that the escape room

[00:14:15] bit or gag would get old. Cause I was like, okay, we're just going to do escape rooms every,

[00:14:20] every episode, but they managed. Well, yeah, yeah. I've been, I've, I've had PTSD from Marvel,

[00:14:26] um, but, but they were able to keep it fresh and keep it lively every time with kind of really

[00:14:31] switching things up and they didn't, you know, I'm glad they didn't do, you know, like seven or

[00:14:35] eight straight escape rooms, you know, all in a row. They really broke it up and gave us, you know,

[00:14:39] they gave us, uh, Billy's origin story in between all that. So it wasn't, it didn't feel like there

[00:14:44] was this like bookend of like, okay, we have an intro, we got a bunch of fun escape rooms and then

[00:14:49] our finale. So it really was great. They broke it up. And even when they did the escape room bit,

[00:14:53] it was different every time it was a different, uh, a different goal to accomplish. And it really kind

[00:14:59] of helped to tell a story about a different, uh, each different character. Like Alice's escape room

[00:15:05] story journey was great because we got to see how kind of her feelings got to see her resolve some

[00:15:10] things by the end of it. So it was really fantastic, especially with, uh, Lilia's episode seven, um,

[00:15:15] thing was just like fantastic. Like I agree with Franny, but probably the best episode of the show.

[00:15:20] What was that? Was that one? So it was great that we could, yes, we could use this mechanism of

[00:15:24] escape rooms. We're also going to use it effectively to tell a story. Yeah. And that was never like,

[00:15:30] it, it, it never felt like that was the point of escape room is like the answer to the, whatever

[00:15:36] they're trying to solve. It was like a means to an end of telling a story about the character,

[00:15:40] exactly like you said, which is what makes the real impact. Um, yeah, I will say though,

[00:15:44] I wish we had seen more of Jen. I feel like Jen got a little bit shifted narratively.

[00:15:51] She's the only one who makes it out alive, but like I loved her and I wanted to see so much more

[00:15:56] of her story. Um, so I don't know. I'm like really optimistic that she can have another like

[00:16:02] moment or cameo or something down the line in Marvel. It's tough for me to really pinpoint

[00:16:06] the standout between a Jen, Alice and Lilia because they were all this fantastic. And they're these brand

[00:16:13] new characters. And, you know, uh, Sashira Zameda, who had only known from a Saturday night live,

[00:16:18] she came in here and killed this, like, like murdered it with all of her, like she was,

[00:16:24] she was a lot of the comedic relief throughout the show, which is really fun. Um, but in the way

[00:16:28] that her, we didn't get enough of her story. Like there was a lot of her story hinted at.

[00:16:32] We didn't get enough of it. And the fact that she escapes at the end, you know, we, we,

[00:16:37] we talked to Marvel a lot and about unfulfilled promises, unfulfilled stories, and more what we

[00:16:43] want to see, we can talk about the end journey and where, where, and if we'll see that. Um,

[00:16:49] but I just hope somewhere down the line, we see Jen again. I feel like, I feel like even coming out

[00:16:53] of Agatha all along, one of my criticisms is that we have so much story that's out there that we

[00:16:59] didn't get through these nine episodes. I hope Marvel can, you know, pick up those stories at

[00:17:04] some point down the line and fill us in. Uh, cause I mean, something that I'll highlight here,

[00:17:09] like Rio and Agatha's love story. I don't feel like we got enough of that at all.

[00:17:14] Not even barely a taste, barely a taste. We were so like teased with that. I was shocked

[00:17:21] that they didn't dive into it more. And I think that they maybe like, weren't, I don't know,

[00:17:25] like weren't expecting people to get so excited about it. Um, I don't know what the deal is.

[00:17:31] And I, I understand the value in not showing it because I think the flip side say they had

[00:17:37] really fully dived into Jen's story, fully dived into Agatha and Rio. Um, we also still don't

[00:17:44] know how Agatha got the dark hold insane. Excuse me. Like, how was that not resolved? Um, but I,

[00:17:50] I think that there's a world where if they actually show all of those things, it is too jam packed

[00:17:56] and, um, the story doesn't feel as like concise or pointed. So I do think that it benefited from the

[00:18:02] kind of like streamlining, but yeah. Oh, please, please. I hope they follow up.

[00:18:07] Listen, Marvel, if you can promise me an Agatha all along season two, I will take back my criticisms.

[00:18:12] I will, if you're going to promise me, they're going to get these stories solved down the road,

[00:18:17] but me knowing who Marvel is, what Marvel does, you know, we have so many plot lines that are

[00:18:23] dangling. I don't want any of these plot lines to dangle. I want to see Billy and, uh,

[00:18:28] Agatha's journey to find Tommy. I need a season two to fully digest that. I don't want a, uh,

[00:18:35] young Avengers movie where Billy and Tommy show up and like, Hey, I found my brother. Like,

[00:18:40] it doesn't matter how it happened. I need to see that journey. I need to see more,

[00:18:44] you know, Agatha flashbacks of her and Rio's love story and how that came to be.

[00:18:48] I need more. Like it's good that a series lead was wanting more, but I feel like it was almost

[00:18:55] an incomplete story in some ways. So I'll, I'll give it, I'll give it, I'll give it like,

[00:18:58] I'll dig at some points for that. Yeah. And, and I think that's fair because Marvel does that way

[00:19:04] too much in this new, uh, phase, whichever one, whichever one we're in now,

[00:19:10] please be serious. Uh, and now that whole Kang thing is dead and I really don't know where they are,

[00:19:16] but they don't know where they are that truly, uh, and, and I feel that they're trying so hard to

[00:19:23] introduce all these like really interesting, diverse characters starting right all the way back

[00:19:29] to Sean Chi. And they just said, okay, now we gave it to you and that's it. You know, and hell,

[00:19:35] why is Wong in every damn everything? And we feel like, what's the reason? We still don't know.

[00:19:43] Conspicuously absent from Agatha all along. Where was the Wong cameo? Okay.

[00:19:48] Yeah. I was watching, uh, something and I forget where they said now Agatha

[00:19:52] is the Wong, um, in the magic. Oh, that she's going to show up and everything.

[00:19:56] Yeah. Because she's now a ghost. So, you know, much easier to like tie that into every story.

[00:20:03] And I will say, did y'all see this where they said vision, right? It's going to be the third

[00:20:07] part of this. So now I'm like, what the hell? I don't, don't make me care about another,

[00:20:13] you know, set of people that you're not going to, you know, fully finish or flesh out.

[00:20:19] So yeah. Vision story is still needs to be solved from, uh, WandaVision because it's another threat

[00:20:28] that's been dangling for a couple of years now. So yeah, that is the, the, the, you know,

[00:20:32] seemingly fittingly the third part of this series. The question is, is that where we're going to see

[00:20:39] Agatha and Billy, or is this just going to be vision? I just need to know where we're going to

[00:20:43] pick up on these plot lines. I need to know that Marvel has a plan because I've been burned by them.

[00:20:47] I need to know that there's a plan in place. Concept of a plan. Oh, that's where we are.

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[00:21:58] I think let's get into like, you know, plots and things that we're excited for. And listen,

[00:22:10] just like, I've never related more to a character than Lilia because yeah, we're just gonna go all over

[00:22:16] the place and it is what it is. You know what's gonna happen. But anyway, I think we can start kind

[00:22:23] of with episode one because Fanny, you alluded to this where it starts with Vondavision, right? Like

[00:22:29] basically where we're in a, you know, syndicated crime show and you know, like your NYP, whatever,

[00:22:36] one of them shows. And then, but you see all your people that you're like, oh, the best,

[00:22:42] Westview people have made it. What's going on? And then we see Agatha being like the world's

[00:22:50] most copiest cop. Yeah. She could not be any copier. Yeah. With the stereotype. I was like, girl,

[00:22:59] hang it up. Yeah. And it's so funny. But then seeing that journey of her and then, and then we meet

[00:23:07] all our people we need to meet where, um, and then we see teen or Billy show up and, uh, Aubrey

[00:23:14] Plaza, well, we, Rio, uh, shows up as well. And I said, is this gonna be Agatha and Rio's love story?

[00:23:24] Because them hanging out. There were vibes. There were vibes. It's like, okay, what's going on here?

[00:23:30] Who is this? And why is there, why are there sparks here? I said, okay, let's, uh, let's explore this.

[00:23:35] Oh yeah. This, the first episode did feel like a bridge from WandaVision to what Agatha would be

[00:23:41] with the, uh, with, with the show. I think it's supposed to be probably like a close to like a mayor

[00:23:45] of East town type of vibe, like a female cop that is like, uh, has this like Philly accent or something.

[00:23:52] It was, it was interesting. Uh, but I, you know, I liked how, you know, you can tell that the fact

[00:23:57] that both Wanda is dead and that, you know, it's really affecting because you can imagine that Wanda

[00:24:03] dying would affect the spell that wanted to put on, uh, on Agatha as it's like starting to break down

[00:24:09] and then Billy shows up and then seemingly puts the whole kibosh on it by, by doing the spell he did

[00:24:15] on her, which was interesting. So it was a very, uh, the vibes were good on it. I would say it's one of

[00:24:21] my least favorite episodes. I think I just, I, one of the aspects I didn't love of WandaVision was all the

[00:24:27] parodying of the TV shows. So this was, it didn't hit for me as I felt it should have hit. I thought

[00:24:32] for the first episode. Yeah, no, that's fair. Uh, for me, I think I like a good nostalgia bait.

[00:24:39] So I'm like, Oh, I've seen this before. Yes. Okay. I I'm with you. I'm in it. And I think the,

[00:24:45] which goes to say about the whole series, but just the way they do costumes to tell a story

[00:24:50] felt really fascinating because at the, uh, basically at the end where Rio is right,

[00:24:56] like telling her, okay. Like basically trying to bring her out of it and they're in the morgue

[00:25:01] and when Agatha takes off like layers of clothes, I don't, I feel like you can write a dissertation

[00:25:07] just on that and how each thing is almost right. You're like her eras. Um, we know now and it's,

[00:25:15] I don't know. It's fascinating. Then we see that Wanda is allegedly dead, but do y'all think,

[00:25:20] yeah, I, I really want to know what y'all think about that. The, you know, the body and then as

[00:25:25] well, the like library card, you know, checking out the book situation. My take on it is that I,

[00:25:33] okay, here's my take on it. I don't think that Wanda is dead. I think that Wanda has managed to

[00:25:40] somehow like transfer herself to another part of the multiverse or something, or is existing in this

[00:25:48] ephemeral form, almost similar to how we see Tommy existing. And then, um, and then, you know,

[00:25:53] Billy is able to get him a body by the end of the series. That's kind of what I think. Um, so I think

[00:25:59] maybe like in a physical sense in this universe, she's dead, but in a, in a broader sense, no way.

[00:26:07] I mean, listen, it's, it's comics. No, no one ever, no one ever stays dead in comics. So eventually

[00:26:14] ever. Yeah. Eventually everyone that dies will return. Uh, so I think there's no way that Wanda

[00:26:22] will stay dead in this universe. I think to get the payoff to this, we have to have a scene somewhere

[00:26:28] in a movie, in a TV show with Wanda, Vision, Tommy and Billy in the same room. I think that's the,

[00:26:34] that's the payoff we have to have. And even this show, uh, throughout this series was playing with

[00:26:39] us about Wanda's, you know, health. Is she dead? Is she not? It was like, Billy's like, it was like,

[00:26:44] so is Wanda actually, she's like, well, kinda, sorta, maybe, I don't know. Who knows? Yeah. So it's

[00:26:49] like, I, I think there's no fricking way that, uh, Wanda stays dead. We'll see her at some point down

[00:26:54] the road. Down the road? Don't get me started singing the, the, uh, the witch's road.

[00:27:04] Let me tell you, I've listened to it on Spotify. I've been, I've been humming it around the house.

[00:27:10] My wife's like, what are you singing humming? I'm like, don't worry about it. I'm not going to put

[00:27:15] the earworm into your ear. Just, just let you, in case y'all weren't aware, the person, the people

[00:27:20] that composed the witch's ballot, all the versions we heard were the same people that did let it go

[00:27:24] for Frozen. So it's over. They knew they know what they're doing. They're earworm specialists.

[00:27:30] Um, so I love the different versions. It was so fun. And like in the first episode to the end credits,

[00:27:35] it's like, Ooh, I, I literally, I mean, like, yeah, listen to all of them on Spotify. It's kind

[00:27:40] of embarrassing. Cause I listened to the like four different versions back to back. Like I really

[00:27:43] need to switch to a different song, but they feel so different. It's like really impressive.

[00:27:48] Um, yeah, but, but to go back to your original thing, I do you want to, I think is for sure

[00:27:53] going to be back in our lives at some point. It's, it's virtually guaranteed.

[00:27:58] I just don't think Marvel has enough people left to, to kill off such a big character.

[00:28:05] Like the re there's a reason they keep pushing back the Avengers because they don't know what

[00:28:10] the hell is going on. And you know what I mean? It's just, we don't have nothing. And now the

[00:28:15] young Avengers, we obviously need Tommy for it as well. Like there's no way Wiccan and I forgot

[00:28:23] his speed aren't going to be right in, um, the backsmall twins aren't going to be in freaking

[00:28:29] young Avengers, but either way, it's just that we don't have enough Scarlet, which is coming back.

[00:28:34] And also I think Marvel loves it. We saw this in Loki, right? Likes to do this whole,

[00:28:38] you know, pre-destiny, right? Where, Oh, this is your path. And like anything you,

[00:28:43] nothing you do can change the outcome. It might prolong it death or not, but it's going to happen.

[00:28:50] So I think that's what we're going to get with the Wanda where they're going to be like,

[00:28:53] she was always destined to come back, but live a life of, you know, she has to pay for her sins.

[00:29:00] And that's why she had to live this life. Well, like we're going to, as a comic fan,

[00:29:04] there are 50, 11 ways for you to come for you to come back to life. You know, there's transferring

[00:29:09] consciousness. There's a, you know, another multiverse, there's something or other, even if

[00:29:14] Elizabeth Olsen doesn't want to come back, we'll find a way to bring her back. Okay. Like we'll figure it out.

[00:29:20] Scarlet Witch, Wanda will be back in one way or another. But yeah, I think it's,

[00:29:25] I think it's impossible that she's dead. Yeah. Love that. And then, and now, okay, Agatha,

[00:29:32] you know, has been out of it for a few weeks is what we're told by the neighbor. And she's,

[00:29:38] she's come back. She's living her life and the premise is set, right? She wants her purple back.

[00:29:43] She needs to figure out how to make this happen. And this teen has shown up in her life who seems

[00:29:50] to really like want to help her and, you know, bring her back and also walk the road.

[00:29:56] And then now the road is introduced, which is so exciting to me. I don't know why I was so into it,

[00:30:02] but I was, and they decide, Hey, we're going to walk the road. I got some time from Rio.

[00:30:10] What did y'all think of Rio's introduction? I, I was unclear of why Rio wants to kill Agatha

[00:30:18] right now. Why, why are they having beef at the moment?

[00:30:22] I kind of read it as just like, you know, little lover's quarrel or something, you know?

[00:30:28] It's like on the playground, like, like the, the one, the person she likes, she's like picking on

[00:30:32] bullying, like, Hey, she's pulling her hair. I also feel like functionally there is maybe,

[00:30:40] and again, like this is another like five threads that were really dropped that we don't understand

[00:30:45] how they are going to work going forward. But like maybe functionally something changes when Agatha

[00:30:50] relinquishes her control of the dark hold. Maybe that in some way relates to Rio's ability to like

[00:30:57] seek out Agatha. Um, because it's interesting that they have this like majorly adversarial

[00:31:03] relationship and it's like not explored in, in WandaVision in any way or discussed in any way.

[00:31:07] Um, yeah, that's a thought too. That could be part of why Rio is showing up now. Um, maybe she senses

[00:31:14] that Agatha has lost control of the dark hold, no longer has her powers is maybe closer to death

[00:31:20] than she's ever been at any point in her long, long life. Um, and she's drawn in by it. It's,

[00:31:26] it's alluring to her. Yeah. But then Agatha is like, Hey, let me get my power back and then come

[00:31:31] back and kill me. She's like, okay, see you later. Yeah. I definitely get the sense throughout the

[00:31:39] whole series that there are a lot of moments where, um, Rio, like she shows up with an agenda.

[00:31:46] She wants to, you know, she wants to kill Agatha. Then she wants to, you know, kill teen because he's

[00:31:51] an abomination. And every time Agatha is able to kind of like work her wiles and get Rio to act

[00:31:58] against her better judgment. So I feel like that's why it ends up feeling so confusing. Like why Rio's

[00:32:03] there, what she wants, because she is really acting against her own work and her own best interest

[00:32:08] because she's so whipped on Agatha, like so whipped on Agatha. I almost wondered, like, I wish they could

[00:32:15] have like built in, built something in to make it a little more clear. I also almost wonder, like,

[00:32:19] is Rio mad at Agatha for all the lives that she took from, from death? Like did, did Agatha claim the

[00:32:24] lives of the witch's power she took instead of death? Was she stealing bodies from death?

[00:32:30] I feel like Rio has to be excited about it now.

[00:32:34] Yeah. Yeah. I thought she was almost like, don't kill me. Here is sacrifices that like almost gives

[00:32:42] me the years that I need. Yeah. I thought it could have either been like, they could have been working

[00:32:46] together for her to provide bodies for death or is death mad? I just felt like it wasn't clear

[00:32:53] why Rio was coming with a grudge. I felt like it could have been a little, a little better explained

[00:32:57] instead of us positing theories. Like just, you know, just give us the answer. Don't leave us

[00:33:03] like it. When we find the reveal of death. Yeah. Oh, I screamed. I said, she's dead.

[00:33:10] I was like, oh, she's dancing. Oh my God. It's just the, the like allegories and the,

[00:33:15] all of that stuff that came out of it. Fascinating. But yeah, I thought it was a lover's quarrel. And I was

[00:33:21] like, oh, this is a witch. She did dirty in some way. And you know, so like maybe they're the will,

[00:33:27] they won't be, you know, centuries. So that's, that's so how I feel like I, I feel like, you know,

[00:33:34] they, and again, sucks that we didn't see it, but they had this, you know, romantic relationship up

[00:33:39] until the birth of Nikki. And then I feel like at that point, you know, even though Rio takes the

[00:33:44] time to spare Nikki's life, give them some extra time. I think that Agatha carries a grudge from that

[00:33:50] and is pissed. And my read of the situation is that from that point, she is always keeping Rio

[00:33:57] at, at arm's length. And so Rio wanting to be close to her and wanting to be in a relationship

[00:34:03] with her is, is like acting out in these crazy ways because she, she doesn't know what to do. She

[00:34:07] should be an all powerful being. She's death. And she like, can't get this witch to make out with

[00:34:12] her. Like that's how I feel. That's what I feel is happening. And so she's just like doing weird

[00:34:16] shit because she just wants to get in Agatha's pants. It's like, what's the big deal? I was just

[00:34:20] doing my job. I could just, like, I took your son. So what? I gave you six extra years. Like, why are you so mad?

[00:34:25] Like, yeah. You know, and even the knife work that they do, right? Where she's like pushing,

[00:34:33] like the knife in doesn't make her bleed a little, but then not. And I was like, what kink is this?

[00:34:38] And why are we watching it? Maybe it should just be private. I don't know. Like what in the 50 shades?

[00:34:45] So I don't, yeah, they really put us into the universe so quickly that you have no choice,

[00:34:50] but to literally go along on this journey. And with that, you know, we realized, yeah,

[00:34:56] Agatha's like, listen, just wait, let me just get my powers back. Which again, I was like, oh,

[00:35:00] it's going to be there. The like, you know, going to be the big bad. And that's going to be the battle

[00:35:05] we see because Marvel always needs a battle, but which is what happened, but not for the reasons I

[00:35:10] thought. Yeah. And then we get the introduction of one of the weakest points, I feel, of the series,

[00:35:16] the fricking Salem seven, which ends up just being a bunch of nothing. It's like, okay.

[00:35:22] That was pointless. So disappointed. I was really excited for that. And like,

[00:35:27] especially all of their animal forms. Like I saw online, like all the different casting choices.

[00:35:31] I like really thought that they were going to do more than that. And it was definitely just like

[00:35:35] a excuse to use like a creepy costume, which I appreciated. But yeah, I know I was,

[00:35:44] I was, uh, I saw people were pointing out on Twitter that in Lilia's episode where, you know,

[00:35:49] she flips the tower and the Salem seven die. Um, you don't actually see all seven die. So after that

[00:35:57] episode, I was really hoping that like two or three of them would come back and continue to cause

[00:36:01] problems just so that they like their presence continued in the show. But yeah, sadly, both of them

[00:36:06] dead. Um, yeah. Cause apparently two of them can become animals. So that fly. That's the key.

[00:36:14] Yeah. So that are animals that fly. One's a cicada and one's an owl. And so like, in theory,

[00:36:18] they could just like get out of there. So I'll let you, and we only saw five fall, uh,

[00:36:23] in the shot at least. So who knows? I love a good Easter egg that goes nowhere.

[00:36:29] And we'll see. And yeah. So then the Salem seven, yeah. Are introduced again, fascinating.

[00:36:35] I love that backstory, right? Like what's going on with mom and Agatha's mommy issues,

[00:36:41] right? Why did mom want to kill her so bad? What? Nothing makes sense, but it's fine. We have to hold

[00:36:48] that because teen and Agatha are on the way to get a divination, which, and then a potions, which

[00:36:55] and a green, which jokes. And I really enjoyed this, like a buddy cop comedy type thing that we got

[00:37:03] here where Agatha's changing every time she meets. Well, I guess she changed only for the divination

[00:37:08] and not the others, but she's, you know, this Southern woman. Then she becomes this like,

[00:37:14] um, you know, this like yuppie. Yeah.

[00:37:18] Jade egg enthusiast. She's a con artist. Like that's what she does. She, you know,

[00:37:22] she changes her environment. She, she has, this is a scam she's working. And, you know,

[00:37:26] I love nothing more than a good, uh, recruitment episode or recruitment, uh, saga. Like we've got to go

[00:37:31] get these people. Let's sit. Let's, let's go the journey of getting all these people and how they,

[00:37:35] and how we get them. So I love the different environments we saw with everyone and what

[00:37:39] they were all doing with the, with the Jen being the skincare guru, uh, the Gwyneth,

[00:37:45] Gwyneth Paltrow knockoff, I guess.

[00:37:47] Yes.

[00:37:48] It gave goop.

[00:37:51] Yeah.

[00:37:54] And then we see this kind of disgraced Alice, which was great. And then we see Lily, all people

[00:37:59] that are kind of in, uh, lower portions of their life. Right. And they're looking for power,

[00:38:04] looking for purpose. And I loved how, you know, Agatha was able to play on all that,

[00:38:09] to get them all to convince them all to come to her house, to go to, to, to go to the road.

[00:38:15] The other moment with that, I really liked is like, you were just saying, like, this is a

[00:38:19] trope that you see a lot, like the recruitment episode. And I feel like it can get kind of stale,

[00:38:23] but I loved when, um, uh, teen is, you know, decorating Agatha's house with like,

[00:38:29] welcome coming. And he's made a little appetizer because it was almost like a meta non,

[00:38:33] like, like we know that this is kind of dumb or like kitschy, but like, they're all here now.

[00:38:38] And like, they showed up and they're going to have half of a stale granola bar. And then

[00:38:41] they're going to go on our merry way.

[00:38:42] The little moments they slip into every episode are done so well. And so effectively it's great

[00:38:49] that they, you know, there's no big comic set pieces. It's just all these little lines that

[00:38:53] are thrown in that are just, are so just, wow. Wonderful. I love that.

[00:38:56] And I love when they come together. It's like this, like HOA meeting vibes where I, we have no idea

[00:39:04] what's actually going to happen, but it's still, I feel like it's tying right. This WandaVision

[00:39:11] vibe to what's going to happen because literally I feel like up until that's the ballad starts,

[00:39:16] we're still in this like cute, see, silly fun show. And then right. All of a sudden,

[00:39:22] then that's when we get our first jump scare where the Salem seven show up. And I was scared

[00:39:28] just like teen. Cause when that, um, that, whatever, is it a ghost and apparition that went

[00:39:34] through the window to get tea? And I was like, please, Lord, why I didn't sign up for this type

[00:39:39] of show, but it was okay. We were all good. And then the ballad starts, right? Like earworm to the

[00:39:46] max obsessed. And I love that Agatha is trying to piss all of them off. And the one time she

[00:39:55] doesn't piss them off enough to get the powers, the door open. I mean, yeah, we'll find out why

[00:40:03] later, but then it's like, and then to, to rewatch that and realize, realize a surprise on Agatha's face

[00:40:10] of like, Oh shit. Like this is, this is something that could actually happen. Like I didn't, I didn't

[00:40:16] know this could be a thing. Like it was something that I made up. And then the realization on her

[00:40:21] face or like a teen comes down, it's like, let's not throw it. Let's go. She's like, Oh, okay. Like,

[00:40:26] this is interesting. Like the fact she just like goes along with it. Like, okay, sure. Let's see where

[00:40:30] this goes better than getting effed up by the Salem seven. I guess we'll see where this takes me

[00:40:34] this, this kid's, uh, you know, reality. We'll see what happens here.

[00:40:39] The fourth wall break there where she just looking at the camera, like what the actual

[00:40:44] God. So good. Yeah. I remember watching that moment, like I thinking to myself, um, when Agatha

[00:40:50] is like trying to get them riled up, right? She's like, you know, this is, you are horrible witches

[00:40:55] or whatever. And, um, that part, it felt so like overplayed or overacted that at the time I was like,

[00:41:02] Hmm, is this show going to be like a little too heavy handed? Like I, in that moment,

[00:41:06] I got a little nervous cause it was felt so heavy handed, but now it's like, Oh, duh,

[00:41:10] this is a con she's done for hundreds of years. Like, like through this new lens makes exact sense

[00:41:16] why she was doing it the way she was. Um, yeah. So I love when you can like, I, I, this whole process

[00:41:20] of rewatching and like going back and everything differently. So good. And, and you know, we can just

[00:41:25] say it now to the montage of her stealing all of those. I said this, but you know, the, the,

[00:41:33] like the Leo at the TV gift, like that, that was me where I'm just like pointing. She did it.

[00:41:40] She did it. It's like all the different eras that she's done this in, like all the different

[00:41:44] costume changes just like to tell us how much time is passing is just so wonderful. Especially

[00:41:51] like the late nineties, early two thousands, like emo, which dresses like, okay, definitely.

[00:41:57] Uh, I see where we're at. Yeah. It's just, again, um, probably didn't take that much, um,

[00:42:04] of actual episode time, but tells us such a powerful, good story. And this is what we say,

[00:42:10] like, give us some backstory for everyone, even if it's, yeah, like through just this,

[00:42:14] this funny thing. But again, we, as the audience getting conned chef's kiss,

[00:42:19] I love a good, like, Oh, they got me. They got me here. And of course we're now, um, on the road

[00:42:27] with Agatha, don't know what the hell is going on. Uh, and we get to the first trial, which is like

[00:42:34] this middle age second chance at love is what they called. And, uh, I, again, this is where

[00:42:42] they're just, we get a lot of, I feel like character of values, right? Where a teen is like pushing

[00:42:49] the story along. Now we know why, cause he is the story. Um, he like the storyteller versus,

[00:42:55] you know, Jen really wants to unbind herself and trying to, you know, make this potion,

[00:43:00] like to, to save everyone. Uh, kitty foreman don't know what the hell's going on.

[00:43:06] She just wanted some wine. Okay.

[00:43:08] Yeah. She's a stressful one. She's not used to this witchy stuff. It's like, she doesn't

[00:43:13] know what's going on. She's like, she's just a normal. I mean, listen, she's been through

[00:43:16] the whole Wanda vision of it all. And now she's been dragged down this, this mystical

[00:43:21] road by these witches. She just needs to get drunk off her ass and just go along with whatever's

[00:43:26] happening. So I,

[00:43:32] too excited, too excited. No, we put a swim on you. Is that what it's called? Um, oh,

[00:43:42] uh, oh yeah. What is that called? Wait, wait, no. Wait, why can't we hear you?

[00:43:49] Oh no, you're there. We're good. A sigil. Yes.

[00:43:51] Yeah. You want to sit along with it. Shut up. Yeah. I mean, y'all just want to be quiet.

[00:43:57] You could have just said so. You didn't have to, you had to hex my computer and make it,

[00:44:00] make it you. Enough men talking. I'm just kidding.

[00:44:06] Please. That's another thing. I feel like another big strength of the show is like, uh, again,

[00:44:10] we've talked about the casting, but like, I loved this whole, like the, this entire show

[00:44:16] basically is all of these like engaging women. And then this like low gay kid. I was like,

[00:44:23] yeah, what a squad. It's such a fun group. I feel like it made it so exciting.

[00:44:28] And you can sell a show like this. Oh, wake up production houses because it works. Okay. And we

[00:44:35] eat it up if it's good, if it's good. Uh, and yeah. So anyway, we have the first trial,

[00:44:41] right. And we, we, again, we see like, Oh, this is how it's about to be. And again,

[00:44:47] really enjoyed it. But we have our first casualty and we see Agatha selfish ass. This is where Agatha

[00:44:54] really pissed me off. I was like, she could die. It's okay. Just let her be. Because she wasn't

[00:45:00] drinking the wine. Yeah. And she's not doing nothing. She's playing everyone. She's not a team

[00:45:04] player. I don't want her on my group. No, no, no. She's a saboteur. Yeah.

[00:45:10] Yeah. She'll put her name on it. She'll put her name on it. If you all did the work,

[00:45:14] like just put my name on it and just turn it in. We're all good. Um, but yeah, she's,

[00:45:17] she's not trying to help Mrs. Hart. She's not trying to drink any of the wine. She's just like,

[00:45:22] whatever. I love the kind of the way that it's we're, we're getting to meet the characters now,

[00:45:26] right? Cause we're getting into what do they all fear? What's part of their background? You see,

[00:45:31] see Jen, uh, Jen confronting the doctor that put the bind on her. Like, okay, that's interesting.

[00:45:35] We're seeing Alice confront her mother. It's like, Oh, okay, cool. So we're getting a little more backstory into who our

[00:45:40] characters are and what they fear and what some of their back, their backstory is. I thought it was a

[00:45:44] great way to give us that information in a little time and then getting, getting the different

[00:45:50] ingredients of the potions was fun. Especially with the, uh, wasn't the petroleum or whatever

[00:45:56] that I had to get from, uh, from Jen.

[00:45:58] Oh, really?

[00:45:59] Yeah.

[00:46:00] It's like, we got some of this Jen. Is that okay? She's like, yeah, fine. Put it in. Like,

[00:46:04] it's like, I thought you were all organic. It goes into artificial, artificial stuff in your,

[00:46:08] in your products. But that was all just kind of fun and just see to have Jen, uh, be like integral

[00:46:14] to solving this, this quote unquote escape room, uh, was, was a great way for her to, for her to shine

[00:46:21] in that moment. I also loved, um, this goes back to what we were talking about earlier, but I loved

[00:46:27] that, um, for all of them, they had to utilize a like witchcraft skill that was not just light

[00:46:35] power magic. And I liked that moment for Jen as well, like for her realizing that she still has access

[00:46:40] to so much power, even though she's bound. Um, like I thought that that was a, that was a good little,

[00:46:46] um, initial seed for that character. Um, and to then finally have her unbind at the end was really,

[00:46:51] um, exciting as well, but it's almost like she didn't need it. She, she, you know, creates this

[00:46:56] potion that saves them all. She also heals, um, Billy, which we'll get to when he, uh, becomes injured

[00:47:02] in the next trial. Um, yeah, she, she was like, she was so powerful all along. You don't even need

[00:47:07] the CGI to get things done on this road. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. It just, and I feel like we could spend

[00:47:17] hours talking about just each trial because of how well it's done and how much space they do give,

[00:47:23] especially in the first one to each character, uh, because Jen, we right here, her talk, oh,

[00:47:30] when they're at the campfire, um, about how she went to the, um, the OB basically. And she thought

[00:47:37] it was a thing. And we know for, you know, if you know history, black women, um, that's how

[00:47:44] genealogy, uh, not, yeah, gynecology, sorry, has happened, um, is by tests on black women without

[00:47:52] anesthesia. So I was like, are they going to shoot? Wow. You know, if they, if they go there,

[00:47:58] but they, but they don't, we just realized Agatha, um, unfortunately is the one that's

[00:48:04] that did put the spell on her, but it's really interesting. I thought, I thought the Agatha

[00:48:09] binding her was interesting. And I almost, I was almost reading into that. I was like,

[00:48:14] did Agatha really bind her or was this Agatha being like selfless and convincing Jen? Yes,

[00:48:21] I bound you. So do this ceremony on me to unbind yourself because it's kind of like you had the power

[00:48:26] all along to unbind yourself. You just had to figure it out. Cause that's a little bit too

[00:48:30] coincidental that, uh, Agatha and Jen were in the same spot and Agatha, I guess I, you know, put,

[00:48:36] uh, was paid to put a spell on Jen or whatever. It just seems a little too coincidental. I wondered

[00:48:40] cause I mean, this guy in that, cause this happens in like episode eight where like, you know,

[00:48:44] Agatha has quote learned lessons and is a little more selfless now. And to try and help Jen with her

[00:48:50] journeys, like, yeah, I know that bounding you. So do your little ceremony on me and get your magic

[00:48:54] back. Cause they mentioned in one of the trials or whatever, where Jen's doing something,

[00:48:58] but she's like, huh, maybe he didn't really like kind of bind me is what I thought. Like maybe I

[00:49:02] had it in me all along. So I thought maybe, maybe I'm reading too much into it. Again, writing

[00:49:06] the story that, that isn't, that isn't there to be like, maybe Agatha was just like, yeah,

[00:49:11] you're fine. I bound you do your little unbinding. So you get your power back. I just wondered if that

[00:49:15] was, if anyone else ran into that, like I did. Um,

[00:49:18] I love that. I love that. Oh, wow. Yeah. Cause like, well, what I was just talking about, like she

[00:49:24] does, she makes such an immense, uh, impact on the earlier trials. Like she's, she's doing so much,

[00:49:29] even though she's bound. I really liked that idea that it's kind of like a psychological thing. Like

[00:49:34] she's decided that she, um, can't actually do magic, but she really can. And if there's one thing

[00:49:39] that Agatha knows how to do, it is how to masterfully manipulate people. So I think that makes

[00:49:44] total sense that Agatha, you know, in her heart, she is becoming a better person. She does want to

[00:49:50] help these other witches in their journey. So she's trying to help Jen, but if Agatha is going to do

[00:49:55] one thing, it's going to sit in that villain niche. Like I actually think that she as a character

[00:50:01] is uncomfortable with people seeing her as something other than a villain. I think that she has like

[00:50:06] villainized herself for so long thinking about the guilt of all the witches that she's killed and

[00:50:11] thinking about what Nikki would say if he knew that she was doing that. So I think that like, you can

[00:50:17] see her discomfort in moments where the other witches are starting to like, like her or connect

[00:50:22] with her. Um, there's that moment around the fire where she's talking about like the, like ladies of

[00:50:27] liberty or something. Um, and kind of like laughing with the other witches. I feel like you can sense

[00:50:31] her discomfort. She's not used to being in a coven and being respected. So I love that idea that she

[00:50:36] is like actually helping Jen, but she's doing it in a way that, you know, still allows Jen to hate

[00:50:41] her. She's doing it. She's doing it through being a villain, which is, it was just her way. And you

[00:50:45] know, you mentioned that for me, I love how they kind of toe the line from hero to anti-hero. Like

[00:50:50] they never let her go too far into the light. Like it never let her get too heroic. It's always

[00:50:55] either something that she is at least at the end of it says, well, I did that for me. Like, I didn't do

[00:51:00] that for you. I did that for me. Cause like when she mentioned sacrificing herself for Billy at the end,

[00:51:04] she's like, I just did that to get out of the thing. I didn't do that for you. That was,

[00:51:08] that was, that was my thing. But you, but you know, she kind of sacrificed herself for Billy

[00:51:11] because he reminds her so much of Nikki. Uh, but yeah, I love how they did. They never made her

[00:51:16] too heroic. They always kept her squarely in the anti-hero kind of mold leaning more into villain

[00:51:22] than hero. So I like how they told the line. They didn't, you could have easily by the end of this

[00:51:28] been like, Oh, Agatha is a hero now. But like, no, I still think that she would, she will stab you in

[00:51:33] the back if it, if it comes to that. She wants to, she does. And she does want to, she's excited

[00:51:39] about it. Here's, um, okay. My mind went in two different directions, two different things I want

[00:51:43] to talk about, but one of them is, I feel like there's actually, when I think about all the,

[00:51:48] the witches we know, like, you know, I'm thinking about Wanda, I'm thinking about, you know, Alice,

[00:51:52] Jen and Lilia, and then I'm thinking about Agatha. It feels like for all of them, a lot of their,

[00:51:58] their, um, their expressions of magic that we've seen in the Marvel universe have been fueled in

[00:52:03] some way by grief, which is really interesting. Like, um, yeah, Wanda's entire creation of the

[00:52:09] Hex, um, her most powerful moments in the MCU when she, you know, after Pietro dies, um, and, uh,

[00:52:16] is attacking Thanos, um, after Vision has died, like all of those moments where she's most powerful

[00:52:21] or fueled by grief. I feel like Agatha's, you know, centuries long, um, witch killing is also

[00:52:30] fueled by grief. She doesn't know what to do after Nikki is gone. And so all that she can think to do

[00:52:36] is to continue down this road that they were on together and, uh, you know, sequester herself

[00:52:42] into this little box of being the villain. And then same with, um, with like Lilia, she's,

[00:52:46] she's driven by this like confusion and grief from losing her, um, her maestra, not understanding why

[00:52:53] not understanding like the course of her life. And then Jen grief over losing her power and feeling

[00:52:59] bound. And then Alice grief over losing like her mother and knowing about this generational curse

[00:53:03] and being in denial of it. Um, yeah, I mean, it's interesting. They all have this. It's kind of a

[00:53:08] shame that Mike isn't here to draw the parallel to lost of like, you know, you know, when these,

[00:53:14] when these people resolve their story, that's when they, that's when they leave the, uh,

[00:53:19] the Island or the road as it were, because that's what happens. Right. You know, Alice comes to terms

[00:53:25] with her mother's curse. She, you know, moves across and shortly after that, she's gone. Lilia

[00:53:30] comes to terms with, you know, watching her coven die and finding this new coven where she's like,

[00:53:36] you know, cause she talks to her, to her teacher and just like, yeah, I don't have a coven. Cause like,

[00:53:40] what's the point where I was going to die anyway. Like, and she's like, no, like the teacher kind

[00:53:44] of makes her realize, no, you need to have a coven. You need to have people. And then she's

[00:53:48] like, yeah, I have my people. And now I'm ready to sacrifice myself for them. It's like when she

[00:53:52] comes to terms to that she gone and then, you know, Jen gets her power back. She's gone off the

[00:53:58] road. That was a great way to use, to use those things to make that quote unquote journey down the

[00:54:05] road, um, to, to find what they needed so that they can, they can move on with their lives,

[00:54:09] no matter whether it be in the afterlife or in, in real life. I, I feel the most sad for Alice,

[00:54:15] uh, because you know, Alice, Alice dies. And I thought for a while, I was just like,

[00:54:22] I thought for a while, I was like, are we never just going to see Alice again? But then we got that

[00:54:26] little moment of just like when Alice is dead and Rio comes to get her and she's like, basically

[00:54:31] like, yeah, this is bullshit. Like I just, I just got this curse lifted. Now I'm dead. And Rio who,

[00:54:37] you know, she is death, but he also kind of has like a heart. It's a black heart,

[00:54:41] but she has a heart where she's like, well, you're a protection witch. You die protecting

[00:54:45] someone. So you did your job and it kind of helps Alice to come to terms with going to the afterlife.

[00:54:51] So this just, just this emotion, this emotional journey that our witches were on and for them

[00:54:56] to resolve their feelings, I thought was really great way to tell the story.

[00:54:59] You, okay. You know what? You brought something up for me now. Do you think that death gives them

[00:55:06] the answers of what's going on? Right? Like death helped Alice say, Hey, you're a protection witch,

[00:55:12] you know, like you died doing the heroic thing, blah, blah, blah. But does Alice ever get to learn

[00:55:19] that this was actually in, you know, teen or Billy Maxima's mind. And this is why you died.

[00:55:27] Cause that'd be like, we're trying to send her. There's no way this like little teenager

[00:55:31] killed me for no reason. I'd be coming back to haunt teen. That's what I'd be doing.

[00:55:36] He's going to have a cabin full of ghosts. True. I feel like, I feel like Rio's job. Um,

[00:55:43] and we see this, I think both with Nikki and with Alice, like her job as death is to say or do whatever

[00:55:49] she needs to, to ease that person's passage into the afterlife. Right. Cause she, she says in one

[00:55:55] of the episodes, she hates ghosts. Like she, she doesn't want the world to be populated with all

[00:55:59] these people who, um, have unfinished business who won't leave. So I do not think she tells Alice

[00:56:05] that it was all in teen's head. Right. I think she's going to say whatever will make Alice feel most

[00:56:11] proud of herself and like with the situations that she can move on. But that's my take on it.

[00:56:17] Yeah, I can see that for sure. No, I think, and Alice gets to meet her mom, hopefully. So yeah,

[00:56:23] hopefully it's, you know, eases everything. I'll tell her that she broke the curse.

[00:56:27] Yes. This is okay. This is another question that popped up earlier that I'm really curious what your,

[00:56:32] your takes are on this. Um, so when Alice dies, when Agatha kills her by sucking up all her powers,

[00:56:39] um, afterwards, you know, they all turn on Agatha and Agatha is really saying like, I didn't mean

[00:56:45] to do that. What do you guys think? Do you think that she actually, to a degree cannot control it?

[00:56:50] Or is that her play acting and, and trying to be the victim or something?

[00:56:54] I was, I really wasn't sure. Cause that question came up for me too, because you can see as she's

[00:56:58] like taking Alice's power, she has this kind of face. It's like, Oh my God, like I want to stop,

[00:57:03] but I can't, I was wondering if it was just like, this is my first taste of power. Like I can't help

[00:57:07] myself. Like once, once you pop, you can't stop. Like you have to suck all the power and she just

[00:57:14] can't help herself. I just want also wondering if it was like her mother was, had some part in this,

[00:57:18] like was still inhabiting her and making her do this. So I'm not, it's very unclear. Uh, but the,

[00:57:23] her facial tics were kind of like, she didn't want to be doing this, but she, for some reason had to,

[00:57:28] she even kind of says that after they're done, like, I didn't want to kill her. Like it just kind of,

[00:57:32] kind of happened. Like I do just want to, it was like, this is my first time doing this in a while.

[00:57:36] Like it feels too good. I want to stop, but I can't.

[00:57:41] I am. I go back to your original point, Jason, where you can't have our anti-hero step too close

[00:57:48] to the light. So if she would have blocked it here, would the blocking, you know, would hers,

[00:57:53] um, blocking Billy's later on wouldn't have felt meaningful? Cause you're like, ah,

[00:57:59] Agatha already did it. We know what, if she did it for, you know, Alice, she's definitely going to do it

[00:58:04] for, you know, Billy. That makes a lot of sense. Hashtag boy mom. So you know that she's going to

[00:58:10] do it for Billy. Such a boy mom. Extreme boy mom. My girl. Be serious. Uh, but, but, so I think

[00:58:18] unfortunately for that also, it doesn't matter. And she, she's just not good yet. Good as in,

[00:58:25] she's not ready to see herself in the light yet. And her, and, and your mom is taunting you like that.

[00:58:32] Have you ever been a teenage girl with a mom? Uh, you're going to do the not nice thing.

[00:58:38] Yeah. Yeah. It makes you want to be naughty. Definitely. Definitely. Her coping mechanism

[00:58:44] is to just dig herself deeper into the hole. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I just feel like it wasn't her

[00:58:51] journey. You know, it wasn't her time on the journey to be good yet. And poor Alice, we lose her to that.

[00:58:57] Uh, and again, we, these Easter eggs that they've cut into the story, right. Where

[00:59:03] Lillian says it before way early. Don't, you know, don't give Agatha your power. Like don't,

[00:59:09] don't help her. And these like random cuts that all come together. Just what smart writing,

[00:59:16] like shout out to whoever came up with that idea. And, uh, did y'all like trial number two,

[00:59:22] the, the like seventies, whatever studio. Um, I thought it was fun. I thought it was fun. I thought

[00:59:29] the set pieces were great with a curse taking on that, the embodiment of like this demon.

[00:59:33] Fair. Okay. I liked that part of it. I, it was, it was fun. I would say it wasn't my favorite. And

[00:59:38] you know, the, the, the ballad earworm really just kind of hits you in that episode. I loved,

[00:59:44] I loved how fun it was with all the, all the different things while doing the performance with

[00:59:48] Rio, just kind of lazily hitting the drums. You got Lillia with the different instruments.

[00:59:54] Yeah. That was so funny. There was a lot of fun moments in there. It wasn't,

[00:59:58] it wasn't our most kind of like consequential trial. Right. I mean,

[01:00:02] of course it helped Alice come to terms with, with her story and with her mom and the curse and

[01:00:06] everything, but it wasn't the most consequential. It was like, it was good for a mid range trial.

[01:00:11] It was good to stick in the middle there. I would say. Yeah. Yeah. That was definitely the point

[01:00:14] where I was like, well, you got to change up the structure.

[01:00:20] We're doing then, then switching it up after that. I think that was a good, like a pacing choice.

[01:00:26] Yeah. Agreed. And then of course, teen right after this is unconscious. And then we get,

[01:00:32] I think this is when it happens, right? Where Rio says, or around one of these, it doesn't matter,

[01:00:38] where Rio says, that's not your son. Yeah. I said, well, damn. Cause I definitely thought it was.

[01:00:44] Well, no, I mean, listen, I think a lot of, I think a lot of people were speculating coming into this,

[01:00:49] that teen was Wiccan. Like I felt a lot of people going into one of the videos were like,

[01:00:53] oh yeah. Okay. That's going to be Billy. We all know it. We all get it. But you know,

[01:00:57] they really tried to throw us off later. Just like, Oh, it could be Nikki. It could be Nikki.

[01:01:01] I definitely, it worked on me. I thought it was Nikki for sure.

[01:01:04] I think I'm just, I think I'm too dug into the, to the fan theories and all that stuff.

[01:01:09] Because like, I came in kind of expecting him to be Wiccan.

[01:01:13] And the red herrings are trying to throw at us was,

[01:01:16] it did have me doubting for a minute. And then I was like, okay, no, he is Billy.

[01:01:20] He is, he is all this. But yeah.

[01:01:22] And that scene where like Rio and Agatha are like very tender with each other.

[01:01:28] And you know, Rio's just like, you know, that's not your kid. Right.

[01:01:31] And Agatha's like, just kind of walks off like, Ooh, more, like more sparks.

[01:01:36] I love that. So that was just such an intense scene.

[01:01:40] And, you know,

[01:01:41] to realize where Agatha's motivations are because yeah, it's not my son,

[01:01:44] but he just kind of, like you said, Sasha, she's in boy mom mode.

[01:01:48] She has to protect this young boy because she lost a young boy.

[01:01:51] It was a really,

[01:01:52] it was really effective in the way that this I do with, with,

[01:01:54] with Agatha for the first time that we've seen really caring about someone,

[01:01:58] really caring for someone where she's kind of there with the wounded Billy.

[01:02:03] And she's really concerned with his health at the moment.

[01:02:06] Yeah. And I, and all the witches, I think, lower their guard down,

[01:02:11] unfortunately for them here, right.

[01:02:15] Seeing her be boy mom, hashtag boy mom.

[01:02:18] So I, again, it works really well for the story.

[01:02:22] And I wanted to also bring up the rumor tool because now Salem seven have made

[01:02:28] it, you know, into now we know Billy's imagination, but they're here,

[01:02:33] you know, we got to run.

[01:02:34] And then they take these silly stereotypes of witches and turn it on its head where

[01:02:43] they're like, well, damn, we got to ride the brooms,

[01:02:46] but the ritual of them giving it to each other and, you know,

[01:02:49] and making the room beautiful.

[01:02:50] And then flying over the moon, like just so good.

[01:02:57] We're taking something again, stereotypical, but making it meaningful.

[01:03:01] What a great way to do it.

[01:03:03] And even teen was in on it apparently.

[01:03:06] Yeah. I love that moment. I loved it. It's also like,

[01:03:09] and this is the thing that I liked about it is I feel like there are all these

[01:03:12] moments across the show where it's really showing like, first of all,

[01:03:16] anyone can be a witch. Like even at the very beginning, when Agatha is saying like,

[01:03:20] you know what is it like within a mile radius,

[01:03:24] there's like three people witchy enough in form a coven or something.

[01:03:27] Anyone can be a witch. And also the part of being a witch is the community is

[01:03:35] the like sisterhood, regardless of your gender. And, and yeah,

[01:03:38] I feel like that was really reflected in the brooms.

[01:03:40] Like you have to share it with somebody to be able to do it.

[01:03:43] Like, and all of these witches are very much covenless,

[01:03:46] but like at that is part of what like saps their power,

[01:03:50] saps their like potency in the world. And then once they're together,

[01:03:52] they become like really powerful and actually able to do stuff.

[01:03:55] Yeah. Just, and I think the burning, right?

[01:03:58] Like the burning of the witches at the stake that happens in the previous

[01:04:02] trial, the like 70 at the music studio, again,

[01:04:05] it's just they're bringing it in, but in a way to almost like be like, no,

[01:04:09] that's not what actual, you know, witchcraft is.

[01:04:13] So I really enjoyed it. And, you know, they, they become ET.

[01:04:17] And of course we get the nineties trial, which we've already talked about,

[01:04:21] but I just, that was my favorite one.

[01:04:23] So I just wanted obsessed with everything. You know,

[01:04:27] they said stranger things who, and I'm just kidding.

[01:04:29] It was really nice. And,

[01:04:31] and I enjoyed all the actual layers we learned here and we,

[01:04:35] we get Nicholas scratch who she apparently made from scratch,

[01:04:40] which I have so many questions about.

[01:04:42] Yeah. Again, that's, that's the other, that's another question.

[01:04:44] The parentage of Nikki. Like, you know,

[01:04:47] she mentioned that she did this with no spell and only cantation.

[01:04:49] She made him from scratch. So it's like, does that mean,

[01:04:52] it's like you're virgin marrying this or like,

[01:04:54] yeah.

[01:04:56] Immaculate conception.

[01:04:58] Yeah. There's,

[01:04:59] there's been other theories about who Nicholas scratches father is.

[01:05:02] Like, is he a father of Satan or son of Satan? I mean,

[01:05:06] or who like, again, that's another story.

[01:05:08] The storyline is like, okay, who is Nikki's father?

[01:05:11] That's another question we need answered. So yeah,

[01:05:13] I think that's, that's something for down the road, hopefully on the road,

[01:05:17] of course.

[01:05:18] I'm saying that at some point.

[01:05:20] Yeah.

[01:05:20] Yeah.

[01:05:21] So I think that's another question needs to be answered,

[01:05:23] which left me like, kind of, I was like, okay,

[01:05:26] I need more answers. Who's Nicholas's dad?

[01:05:28] We don't know.

[01:05:28] Yeah.

[01:05:29] Mari show up immediately.

[01:05:32] Okay.

[01:05:33] We need it.

[01:05:34] But yeah, again,

[01:05:36] I loved it.

[01:05:37] And now we know that teen has powers by the end of the nineties.

[01:05:42] Cabin child.

[01:05:44] So,

[01:05:45] yeah,

[01:05:45] I mean,

[01:05:45] it's,

[01:05:45] it's kind of his emotion over losing Alice.

[01:05:48] That really kind of sets this off.

[01:05:50] Grief again.

[01:05:51] Grief again.

[01:05:52] Yeah.

[01:05:52] You will die grief.

[01:05:53] All these.

[01:05:54] And this causes him to like lash out.

[01:05:56] And this is like,

[01:05:58] bury Jen and Lilia.

[01:06:00] And then it's,

[01:06:01] it's as a,

[01:06:02] as a father of a teenager,

[01:06:05] it's like,

[01:06:05] that's,

[01:06:05] that's perfect teenage emotion.

[01:06:07] Right.

[01:06:07] They lash out.

[01:06:08] And then later it's like,

[01:06:09] I'm so sorry.

[01:06:10] I didn't mean to do that.

[01:06:11] Like I should,

[01:06:12] I shouldn't have buried you in under the road.

[01:06:14] It's like those,

[01:06:15] those teenage hormones,

[01:06:16] whether you're witch or not,

[01:06:17] they'll kick in.

[01:06:18] Yeah.

[01:06:19] It's a,

[01:06:20] for any of this show that Jason and I covered,

[01:06:23] the power was the same thing where it was,

[01:06:27] all the girls have superpowers to kind of like,

[01:06:31] you know,

[01:06:32] counteract this patriarchal world where they show that like girls can now run at night and be safe.

[01:06:39] Cause they,

[01:06:40] you know,

[01:06:40] can literally burn men if they try to attack them and with like,

[01:06:44] like electrocute them basically anyway,

[01:06:46] but that's what it reminded me of.

[01:06:48] Cause in the power,

[01:06:49] where it's like,

[01:06:50] it's almost a symbolism for like,

[01:06:52] you're getting your period.

[01:06:52] It's like,

[01:06:53] Oh,

[01:06:53] I have the power now.

[01:06:56] And only certain women can get it.

[01:06:58] But anyway,

[01:06:59] it was fascinating,

[01:06:59] but trans women also got it.

[01:07:01] So really interesting show.

[01:07:03] And,

[01:07:03] and then we launched into teens life.

[01:07:08] And when I tell y'all,

[01:07:09] I could not from the opening moment,

[01:07:12] right.

[01:07:12] My notes say teen is Jewish in all caps.

[01:07:16] Cause you just like do it.

[01:07:18] Like reading the Torah and they're doing the whole,

[01:07:22] it's like bar,

[01:07:23] uh,

[01:07:23] bar mitzvah,

[01:07:25] but not like,

[01:07:25] it's just,

[01:07:26] they didn't have to write.

[01:07:27] Like have the exact prayer that you say,

[01:07:30] right.

[01:07:31] Before you start reading the Torah.

[01:07:32] And I'm like,

[01:07:33] I'm like saying it back.

[01:07:35] I'm not out of bar mitzvah.

[01:07:37] Like,

[01:07:37] why do I need to say about,

[01:07:38] but it's just,

[01:07:39] it felt so cool.

[01:07:41] Um,

[01:07:42] and you know,

[01:07:42] it didn't have any like POC Jews,

[01:07:44] but it's fine,

[01:07:45] I guess.

[01:07:45] Uh,

[01:07:46] just,

[01:07:46] you know,

[01:07:46] very basic.

[01:07:48] And then we learned his name is William,

[01:07:50] which I'm sure for the comic book people were like,

[01:07:53] that's okay.

[01:07:54] Got it.

[01:07:55] Yeah.

[01:07:55] Sure.

[01:07:57] And then of course,

[01:07:59] at just like any bar mitzvah,

[01:08:01] there's a palm reader.

[01:08:04] Is that a major thing,

[01:08:06] Sasha?

[01:08:06] Is that,

[01:08:06] is that like,

[01:08:07] I feel like I've definitely been to a good amount where they are.

[01:08:11] Yes.

[01:08:13] That's good to know.

[01:08:14] Cause I,

[01:08:14] okay.

[01:08:14] I've never,

[01:08:15] I've never been to a bar mitzvah.

[01:08:16] So I was like,

[01:08:17] I was like,

[01:08:18] they were just looking for a way to put Lillia in,

[01:08:20] but that's like,

[01:08:20] that's,

[01:08:21] that's helpful to know.

[01:08:22] I mean,

[01:08:22] and again,

[01:08:23] like not all of them.

[01:08:24] And I don't know that they were at boys bar mitzvahs.

[01:08:27] I'll,

[01:08:27] I'll say that,

[01:08:28] but I think,

[01:08:28] you know,

[01:08:29] you got to make something happen.

[01:08:30] And I guess as a queer boy,

[01:08:32] so maybe that's how we're gender bending it a little bit.

[01:08:35] Yeah.

[01:08:35] I've definitely been where they do like a carnival theme type thing.

[01:08:38] And then they have all these boots.

[01:08:40] They have the henna,

[01:08:41] but I've even seen henna boots,

[01:08:43] all that kind of stuff.

[01:08:45] So I thought that was really funny,

[01:08:46] but then yes.

[01:08:48] Yeah.

[01:08:48] I thought,

[01:08:49] I thought all the,

[01:08:50] yeah,

[01:08:51] I thought all the Billy origin stuff was really fun.

[01:08:53] The fact,

[01:08:53] the fact that he had,

[01:08:55] he had seen all the other witches before,

[01:08:57] which informs us later of maybe why,

[01:09:00] these are the witches that were formed of the coven was very interesting to see

[01:09:04] Lillia encounter him and have that recognition enough to be able to put the

[01:09:09] sigil on him.

[01:09:10] And as we find out later during the Lily episode,

[01:09:12] she's like,

[01:09:13] yeah,

[01:09:13] I saw who you're going to be.

[01:09:14] So I want to give you enough time to kind of be who you are so that you

[01:09:19] were protected from other witches was like perfect.

[01:09:22] Because you know,

[01:09:23] the show is filled with things that happen.

[01:09:25] And you're just like,

[01:09:26] okay,

[01:09:26] I don't know why that happened.

[01:09:27] And then later we find out,

[01:09:28] it's like,

[01:09:29] Oh,

[01:09:29] that makes so much sense of why she put the sigil in his pocket.

[01:09:33] So I thought it was a great one.

[01:09:34] I thought the story of,

[01:09:35] you know,

[01:09:36] how,

[01:09:38] how Billy enters William was really great.

[01:09:41] And all the after effects of that,

[01:09:42] where he like,

[01:09:42] can't remember.

[01:09:43] He seemingly kind of,

[01:09:45] he seemed to kind of like a baby,

[01:09:46] a baby consciousness,

[01:09:47] right?

[01:09:48] Because he can't remember his life.

[01:09:50] He can't remember William's life.

[01:09:51] He also can't really remember Billy's life as we see,

[01:09:55] which one of the,

[01:09:55] one of the funniest scenes is when we go find Ralph Boner again.

[01:10:00] Oh my God.

[01:10:01] Like what the hell?

[01:10:02] Yeah.

[01:10:03] That was so crazy.

[01:10:04] Yeah.

[01:10:04] He kind of breaks it down for,

[01:10:06] for Billy who Wanda vision and the kids are.

[01:10:10] And for having kind of realized,

[01:10:12] Oh shit,

[01:10:12] me,

[01:10:13] I might be Billy.

[01:10:13] And to kind of figure out where he needs to go from there.

[01:10:16] I thought it was a really great,

[01:10:18] it was a really great way to introduce kind of retroactively introduce the

[01:10:23] character and how he got to be who he is now.

[01:10:25] Yeah.

[01:10:26] I also loved that at the start of that episode,

[01:10:28] you know,

[01:10:29] it is such an extreme tonal shift from like at the end of the previous

[01:10:32] episode,

[01:10:33] we see this kid with this explosive power and just this like really intense

[01:10:37] moment.

[01:10:38] And then the barman's a tone shift.

[01:10:42] Billy Eilish.

[01:10:42] The crown on the floor for that.

[01:10:46] I love it.

[01:10:47] But yeah,

[01:10:48] I love that when they start this episode and it kind of,

[01:10:51] I mean,

[01:10:51] it reminds me of the structure of,

[01:10:53] of Wanda vision,

[01:10:53] of course,

[01:10:54] where you have that episode where you go back to the real world.

[01:10:56] They really let you sit in it for a while before it ties back into the

[01:11:02] original show.

[01:11:03] So I love that feeling for the first five minutes of kind of sitting with

[01:11:06] bated breath,

[01:11:07] like,

[01:11:07] okay,

[01:11:07] we're at this barman.

[01:11:08] So like what's happening.

[01:11:09] And then you see Lillia and you're like,

[01:11:10] boom,

[01:11:10] we're so back.

[01:11:11] Like,

[01:11:11] this is,

[01:11:12] this is what's happening.

[01:11:13] I thought that was really well done.

[01:11:14] And then the other thing kind of like comparing this to Wanda vision.

[01:11:17] Um,

[01:11:18] again,

[01:11:19] I loved Wanda vision.

[01:11:20] I thought it was really well done,

[01:11:21] but I think the,

[01:11:23] uh,

[01:11:24] sort of reveal episode or the reveal moment really happened in the middle of

[01:11:29] the season where you realize,

[01:11:31] the season where you realize,

[01:11:31] okay,

[01:11:31] there's a world outside the hex.

[01:11:32] It's,

[01:11:32] it's Wanda doing this.

[01:11:34] And there are,

[01:11:35] you know,

[01:11:35] sword is outside trying to,

[01:11:36] trying to get in or trying to get to her.

[01:11:38] And that reveal happening in the middle of the season,

[01:11:43] somewhat deflated the rest of it for me.

[01:11:44] Cause it feels like you kind of know everything you need to know.

[01:11:46] But what felt very different about this show is I thought,

[01:11:52] okay,

[01:11:52] this is our big reveal moment.

[01:11:54] We're seeing this background of like Billy William.

[01:11:57] And then now we know everything we need to know for the rest of the show.

[01:11:59] Not the case.

[01:12:01] There's like four more kind of surprising reveals.

[01:12:03] So I liked that they give you this big moment so that there's a change in the

[01:12:08] structure and you finally have more context that you didn't have before,

[01:12:12] but it's also not the end.

[01:12:14] Like that's not,

[01:12:15] it's not straightforward from here on out.

[01:12:17] The road is going to twist and turn like several more times before the show

[01:12:20] is done.

[01:12:22] Yeah.

[01:12:22] Yeah.

[01:12:23] And again,

[01:12:23] this is where my,

[01:12:25] um,

[01:12:26] Marvel trauma kicks in,

[01:12:27] right?

[01:12:27] Where you're like,

[01:12:28] Oh,

[01:12:28] they did it so well,

[01:12:30] but they did it so early.

[01:12:31] Now a bummer,

[01:12:32] bummer,

[01:12:32] you know,

[01:12:33] it's going to go downhill.

[01:12:34] Nope,

[01:12:35] not yet.

[01:12:36] And for me,

[01:12:37] when they show,

[01:12:38] uh,

[01:12:39] you know,

[01:12:39] uh,

[01:12:40] teens,

[01:12:40] kid,

[01:12:42] uh,

[01:12:42] the parents,

[01:12:42] sorry.

[01:12:43] When they show his parents,

[01:12:44] I was like,

[01:12:46] so,

[01:12:47] so what's the reveal here that that's not,

[01:12:49] you know,

[01:12:49] you're not his mom or that's not your son.

[01:12:52] I was like,

[01:12:53] well,

[01:12:53] who's the mom?

[01:12:54] You know,

[01:12:54] I,

[01:12:54] to me,

[01:12:55] it was in my brain that his parents are going to be important.

[01:13:00] So,

[01:13:00] and then to see these like just two,

[01:13:02] you know,

[01:13:02] nice Jewish family.

[01:13:04] I was like,

[01:13:05] what's not clicking here for me?

[01:13:07] And then,

[01:13:08] you know,

[01:13:08] you realize what actually happens.

[01:13:10] And,

[01:13:10] um,

[01:13:10] he had died,

[01:13:11] blah,

[01:13:11] blah,

[01:13:11] blah,

[01:13:12] right?

[01:13:12] Wear your seatbelts,

[01:13:13] everyone,

[01:13:13] please.

[01:13:14] And it just,

[01:13:15] it's terrible tragedy,

[01:13:17] but you know,

[01:13:17] at least Billy is able to show up here and now we're going to look for Tommy.

[01:13:22] And we know that's his,

[01:13:24] you know,

[01:13:24] forever journey.

[01:13:25] And now we go to the castle trial,

[01:13:28] the wizard of Oz,

[01:13:30] Maleficent,

[01:13:31] right?

[01:13:32] Uh,

[01:13:32] who else?

[01:13:33] Snow White's evil witch.

[01:13:34] They've all shown up.

[01:13:36] I love that.

[01:13:37] Good.

[01:13:38] And you know,

[01:13:38] they,

[01:13:39] they,

[01:13:39] so many times throughout the series,

[01:13:41] they were just like,

[01:13:42] all the witches were bristling at the stereotypical witch stuff.

[01:13:45] And then to get to this episode where they're all dressed as famous witches,

[01:13:48] they're just like,

[01:13:49] for real like this is crazy.

[01:13:52] Uh,

[01:13:52] but,

[01:13:53] and you know,

[01:13:53] so many shows do these time,

[01:13:55] time jump,

[01:13:57] uh,

[01:13:57] gimmicks,

[01:13:58] gags,

[01:13:58] uh,

[01:13:59] Sasha,

[01:13:59] you and I covered Loki season two,

[01:14:01] which was like chock full of that.

[01:14:03] And yeah,

[01:14:06] that was a show that did it very well.

[01:14:08] And I feel like this show as well,

[01:14:10] also really just kind of laid it out for you in a really clear,

[01:14:14] concise way,

[01:14:15] kind of laid the tracks out for you of what we had seen before.

[01:14:18] So it all really kind of made sense.

[01:14:20] So bravo to the show for being able to do time loop,

[01:14:24] time travel,

[01:14:25] uh,

[01:14:25] things in a,

[01:14:26] in a clear way.

[01:14:27] And it like,

[01:14:28] did you,

[01:14:29] cause again,

[01:14:30] we're,

[01:14:30] we're,

[01:14:30] we're in the Marvel.

[01:14:32] So we were maybe able to follow this stuff,

[01:14:33] but I love to know from y'all and let me know in the chat too,

[01:14:37] you know,

[01:14:38] was it easy to follow?

[01:14:39] Cause for me,

[01:14:40] it was,

[01:14:40] I was like,

[01:14:41] okay,

[01:14:41] I understand now what's going on.

[01:14:43] I understand who the future,

[01:14:45] Lily is,

[01:14:45] you know,

[01:14:46] versus past where it's,

[01:14:48] it's,

[01:14:48] it all made sense to me so quickly.

[01:14:51] Yeah.

[01:14:52] I feel like it became easy to follow.

[01:14:54] Once you understood that.

[01:14:56] Lily is consciousness.

[01:14:58] Yes.

[01:14:58] Taking the exact same path that you are through the episode.

[01:15:01] Um,

[01:15:02] like,

[01:15:02] I think that's what made it easy to understand.

[01:15:04] I think if it had been jumping through time more as like a storytelling device,

[01:15:09] rather than like,

[01:15:10] this is literally what this character is experiencing.

[01:15:12] It would have been more confusing.

[01:15:14] Oh,

[01:15:14] but,

[01:15:14] um,

[01:15:16] yeah,

[01:15:16] I think it,

[01:15:17] I think it,

[01:15:18] I think it worked so well.

[01:15:18] And this is one of my,

[01:15:19] like,

[01:15:20] I love this style of like time travel or whatever,

[01:15:23] where,

[01:15:23] um,

[01:15:24] like things that Lilia learns from the future impact,

[01:15:30] then the future later,

[01:15:31] like the reason that she shows up to the castle and says to teen,

[01:15:34] like,

[01:15:35] we're good is because she had a moment earlier where she wasn't good,

[01:15:37] but they're like,

[01:15:38] but you said you were good.

[01:15:39] Like,

[01:15:39] I love those.

[01:15:40] Um,

[01:15:41] I love the like future impacting the past.

[01:15:44] And I love that Lilia's confusion tracks us in our confusion.

[01:15:49] And we're like,

[01:15:50] yes.

[01:15:51] And as Lilia learns,

[01:15:53] we learn about,

[01:15:54] okay,

[01:15:54] I've been jumping through time.

[01:15:56] I've been jumping through various moments.

[01:15:58] And,

[01:15:58] you know,

[01:15:58] I,

[01:15:59] I kind of clocked in an episode,

[01:16:01] like two or three,

[01:16:01] like she's probably,

[01:16:02] there's probably some times,

[01:16:03] some essence of time travel here is going on when she's doing these,

[01:16:06] these outbursts of like,

[01:16:07] she's just saying these things.

[01:16:08] Like,

[01:16:08] okay,

[01:16:09] it's probably,

[01:16:09] this is all going to come together at some point.

[01:16:11] And then just to see it,

[01:16:13] to see it,

[01:16:13] it all laid out here.

[01:16:15] And so,

[01:16:15] like I said,

[01:16:15] as Lilia learns,

[01:16:17] we learn something that really was helpful for us to keep track of the,

[01:16:21] of,

[01:16:21] of how this happened.

[01:16:24] 100%.

[01:16:25] It's just,

[01:16:25] again,

[01:16:26] I just appreciate when they don't dumb things down.

[01:16:30] They just make it easily accessible.

[01:16:32] And that's what I love from a TV show.

[01:16:34] I love that from life,

[01:16:35] whatever.

[01:16:36] So that,

[01:16:37] thank you.

[01:16:38] Thank you.

[01:16:38] And even the tarot,

[01:16:39] right?

[01:16:40] I feel like a lot of folks,

[01:16:41] if you're not into tarot or astrology,

[01:16:44] you're going to like,

[01:16:45] or see it as like a silly plot device.

[01:16:47] But here they were able to use that.

[01:16:50] And there are a lot of meanings to each card.

[01:16:53] Like folks should look that up because again,

[01:16:55] great,

[01:16:55] like Easter egg,

[01:16:57] like Franny was saying,

[01:16:58] you know,

[01:16:59] like a storytelling that we,

[01:17:01] you don't need to know the answer,

[01:17:02] but when you know,

[01:17:04] like,

[01:17:04] Oh,

[01:17:04] why the swords or why this was happening,

[01:17:06] it just adds like a really fun layer to the whole show.

[01:17:10] Yeah.

[01:17:10] So the thing with the tarot,

[01:17:11] that's so fun.

[01:17:12] Like you were saying,

[01:17:12] I think if you're watching and you never do tarot and you don't care about it,

[01:17:15] like it was still engaging,

[01:17:17] but like Matt and I love doing tarot.

[01:17:20] We like pull cards every single day.

[01:17:22] And so we were like,

[01:17:24] our brains were exploding.

[01:17:26] Cause we were like,

[01:17:26] and even,

[01:17:27] you know,

[01:17:27] obviously the cards that Lilia pulls in the,

[01:17:30] in the real reading that then allows them to move on to the next trial are explained pretty well.

[01:17:34] But even like the cards that teen is pulling or that Matt and I were like pausing to see what they were.

[01:17:42] And like,

[01:17:42] Oh,

[01:17:42] I love this.

[01:17:43] It's just like so rich for interpretation.

[01:17:45] It's so much fun.

[01:17:47] Well,

[01:17:47] and I love how they kind of,

[01:17:48] they kind of show their perspective of people like me who aren't big tarot people.

[01:17:53] Like,

[01:17:53] I don't know what this means where,

[01:17:55] you know,

[01:17:55] we have,

[01:17:55] we have teen who kind of thinks he knows what it means.

[01:17:58] He was like,

[01:17:58] I think it's Jesus.

[01:18:00] And then we have Agony who's just like F it.

[01:18:03] Like this is,

[01:18:04] this,

[01:18:05] this means that I don't care.

[01:18:06] I don't care.

[01:18:06] Whatever.

[01:18:06] And then as we see the swords come down and then we see Lilia,

[01:18:09] who is the real pro and kind of number one,

[01:18:15] number one,

[01:18:16] realize that she is a traveler and she has to kind of read the deck for herself.

[01:18:21] And as she's putting down the card,

[01:18:23] she's,

[01:18:23] you know,

[01:18:24] really great at explaining in a short,

[01:18:26] concise way what the cards mean and what their meaning is to each individual person.

[01:18:30] I loved that she kind of gives each person like their flowers.

[01:18:34] In a way where she caught,

[01:18:36] well,

[01:18:36] I forgot what Jen's thing was,

[01:18:38] but she's like,

[01:18:39] yeah,

[01:18:39] she's the high priestess.

[01:18:41] Right.

[01:18:41] And we see,

[01:18:42] we see a little profile shots of everyone doing their thing.

[01:18:44] And I just love how she was able to kind of,

[01:18:47] because this is,

[01:18:48] this is almost kind of sort of last trial.

[01:18:50] This is kind of the summation of trials.

[01:18:52] And we're just like,

[01:18:53] this is what,

[01:18:53] this is what all these characters mean to everyone in this journey.

[01:18:57] I thought it was a great way to sum up this kind of thing.

[01:19:00] And for the great sacrifice at the end.

[01:19:02] Now I've seen people say that what we see with Lillia at the end,

[01:19:06] where she's her younger self is almost kind of like a Lillia living in this kind of circular time.

[01:19:12] Like she didn't really die.

[01:19:14] She sent her conscience back to her younger self,

[01:19:16] but she just kind of lives her life in this main loop.

[01:19:19] And what did you,

[01:19:20] what did you guys think of that kind of theory about?

[01:19:22] Do you think that's a good way to kind of sum up Lillia's story here?

[01:19:26] That's how I feel about it.

[01:19:29] I feel like she,

[01:19:31] yeah,

[01:19:31] is going to like continue to live her life in this infinite way,

[01:19:35] all out of order.

[01:19:36] But,

[01:19:37] you know,

[01:19:37] I think that this moment of like understanding why this is happening,

[01:19:42] like why,

[01:19:43] you know,

[01:19:43] it's,

[01:19:43] it's all out of order is what allows her to like enjoy that life that,

[01:19:48] that she's living instead of experiencing it in a way that's like stressful or trying to hide from it.

[01:19:55] But yeah,

[01:19:55] I definitely think that she just like went back to the beginning and maybe just starts the whole thing over again.

[01:20:01] You know,

[01:20:01] like I love that ending of like sitting down and like,

[01:20:04] okay,

[01:20:04] let's start a lesson.

[01:20:05] You know,

[01:20:05] everything that she's learned now,

[01:20:08] she gets to learn a whole new host of lessons with the knowledge that she has.

[01:20:11] I think it's really sweet.

[01:20:13] Yeah.

[01:20:13] Yeah,

[01:20:14] I agree.

[01:20:15] And I think I'm in the middle a little bit where I think that the,

[01:20:19] you know,

[01:20:19] Marvel does this really interesting,

[01:20:21] right?

[01:20:21] I talked about time travel.

[01:20:22] So I think we need to decide one,

[01:20:25] which time travel theory,

[01:20:26] right?

[01:20:26] Like Marvel is using for Lilia specifically,

[01:20:29] because if it's the like,

[01:20:31] Oh,

[01:20:31] everyone,

[01:20:31] you know,

[01:20:32] has the same or sorry,

[01:20:33] your journey can't be altered.

[01:20:35] time travel thing.

[01:20:37] Then you're right that I think she goes to back to her younger self with more clarity.

[01:20:43] And,

[01:20:44] and maybe she's not going to be in a loop,

[01:20:46] but maybe the end doesn't change for her.

[01:20:48] And she's still able to sacrifice,

[01:20:50] but it's a little bit less stressful for her,

[01:20:53] you know?

[01:20:54] And she's able to maybe be better version of herself.

[01:20:58] Or yeah.

[01:20:59] Is it that like the maestra is going to,

[01:21:01] you know,

[01:21:02] figure this out for her.

[01:21:03] So I don't,

[01:21:04] I don't know.

[01:21:05] It's kind of the chicken and the egg principle of time travel.

[01:21:08] Like what,

[01:21:08] what came first?

[01:21:09] Does she already have this knowledge?

[01:21:10] Does she have to live a whole life first to get the knowledge?

[01:21:12] Like,

[01:21:12] which is it?

[01:21:13] So I think it's a great way to end her story and end her journey.

[01:21:17] You know,

[01:21:17] as opposed to Alice,

[01:21:19] who I thought was kind of short shrifted in her death and her ex.

[01:21:22] I thought Lilia got this in one episode,

[01:21:24] got this really great journey.

[01:21:26] And it was one of the shorter episodes too.

[01:21:28] So I was like this in this one short,

[01:21:30] concise episode,

[01:21:30] we were able to focus on Lilia,

[01:21:32] tell her whole story and give her a fantastic ending.

[01:21:35] Which is why I think,

[01:21:36] you know,

[01:21:36] episode seven is one of the best episodes of the series.

[01:21:39] Oh,

[01:21:40] very not even close.

[01:21:41] Yeah.

[01:21:42] Did you,

[01:21:42] did you all see,

[01:21:43] I assume maybe you did because it seems like you're,

[01:21:46] you know,

[01:21:46] you're,

[01:21:46] you're online about all this stuff,

[01:21:48] but did you see the interview that the swords were a practical effect as well?

[01:21:53] They literally,

[01:21:55] Oh,

[01:21:55] I didn't know that.

[01:21:56] They had swords hanging from the ceiling by piano wire and they had to carefully stage

[01:22:02] the scene and the swords literally dropped from the ceiling and went into the floor.

[01:22:06] And the actors were in the scene with them.

[01:22:09] Not every,

[01:22:09] the ones that,

[01:22:10] the ones that,

[01:22:11] yeah.

[01:22:11] Okay.

[01:22:11] Right.

[01:22:12] Well,

[01:22:12] the ones that fell on their chairs were like Joe Locke and Patty Lafone had to like

[01:22:16] jump out.

[01:22:17] Those were CGI,

[01:22:18] but the other ones that are more like in the foreground,

[01:22:21] those were,

[01:22:21] those are practical effect.

[01:22:22] Like how the hell did insurance,

[01:22:24] the insurance sign off on that?

[01:22:26] And did the Baldwin gun not teach us anything?

[01:22:32] We just don't do this.

[01:22:34] I thought maybe if it was practical,

[01:22:35] it would have been the thing where like they come out from the bottom and you kind of,

[01:22:39] but you're saying it's like,

[01:22:41] they literally came from the ceiling and like stuck down.

[01:22:43] Like that's,

[01:22:43] that's insane.

[01:22:44] That's,

[01:22:45] that's crazy.

[01:22:46] No,

[01:22:46] thank you.

[01:22:48] Oh my gosh.

[01:22:49] Oh,

[01:22:50] again,

[01:22:51] I,

[01:22:51] I love it.

[01:22:52] It just feels like this team is so different.

[01:22:54] Cause the,

[01:22:55] the product,

[01:22:57] the backend and production people have done a lot of really cool interviews about why,

[01:23:01] you know,

[01:23:02] they,

[01:23:02] they chose what storylines would recommend folks read that stuff too.

[01:23:06] It's just,

[01:23:06] it seems like a really,

[01:23:09] a storytelling of full of passion and love for the,

[01:23:13] the,

[01:23:14] the actual content.

[01:23:16] And there's like,

[01:23:17] speaking of like behind the scenes stuff and to read about the relationship between

[01:23:20] Patti LuPone and Aubrey Plaza.

[01:23:22] Yeah.

[01:23:23] Oh my God.

[01:23:24] Have you,

[01:23:24] did you,

[01:23:24] have you guys seen their hot ones?

[01:23:26] Yeah.

[01:23:27] Oh my God.

[01:23:27] Yes.

[01:23:28] So funny.

[01:23:29] So funny.

[01:23:30] So to see that kind of bond through the show kind of makes you feel like that maybe there was a bond behind the scenes as well.

[01:23:36] For all these women to kind of really,

[01:23:38] uh,

[01:23:38] women and,

[01:23:39] and Joe Locke to kind of form this,

[01:23:42] this coven,

[01:23:44] if you will,

[01:23:44] maybe it wasn't just on the screen,

[01:23:46] but behind the scenes as well.

[01:23:47] So I thought,

[01:23:47] I think it was really,

[01:23:48] a really good like show to see where it's not just on the screen.

[01:23:53] It's behind the scenes as well.

[01:23:54] Yeah.

[01:23:55] I think to that,

[01:23:56] the other like behind the scenes thing that I would definitely recommend people check out if you haven't is,

[01:24:00] um,

[01:24:00] Marvel released a clip of,

[01:24:02] um,

[01:24:03] them seeing the practical set of the road for the first time.

[01:24:06] And it's so cute watching them walk around and be like,

[01:24:10] I've never seen anything like this.

[01:24:11] Like this is going to be so fun to act in.

[01:24:13] And they're all like literally just like walking down the road,

[01:24:16] but chit chatting.

[01:24:17] And they're like holding their scripts and coffee.

[01:24:19] Like,

[01:24:19] it seems like such a fun vibe.

[01:24:22] It really added to the experience for me watching that.

[01:24:25] Awesome.

[01:24:26] Yeah.

[01:24:27] It's just,

[01:24:28] I love all this kind of,

[01:24:29] yeah.

[01:24:29] Like I love watching interviews and you know,

[01:24:32] all this extra.

[01:24:33] Oh,

[01:24:33] so good.

[01:24:34] And I watched like every Easter egg breakdown of the,

[01:24:39] of the episodes,

[01:24:40] but here we are.

[01:24:41] Can't,

[01:24:41] can't,

[01:24:42] can't be like a seven hour podcast.

[01:24:43] Unfortunately,

[01:24:47] imagine even if just,

[01:24:49] we talked about each episode in depth,

[01:24:51] uh,

[01:24:52] and then,

[01:24:53] you know,

[01:24:53] all the trials seem to be done until they're not because we're in the morgue.

[01:24:57] And we,

[01:24:58] again,

[01:24:58] talked about,

[01:24:59] um,

[01:24:59] the unbinding,

[01:25:00] but yeah,

[01:25:01] this,

[01:25:02] this felt very much like a yada yada moment where,

[01:25:04] oh,

[01:25:04] we need to like finish Jen's,

[01:25:07] uh,

[01:25:08] storyline.

[01:25:08] And,

[01:25:08] and she has to be free for whatever reason.

[01:25:11] So that's nice.

[01:25:13] But outside of that,

[01:25:14] I was like,

[01:25:15] this could have been an email that this particular trial.

[01:25:19] And,

[01:25:20] and,

[01:25:21] um,

[01:25:21] of course the witch's road is a circle,

[01:25:23] right?

[01:25:23] We get all everywhere hit all over the face with,

[01:25:27] uh,

[01:25:27] with symbolism,

[01:25:29] uh,

[01:25:29] of everything where we,

[01:25:30] oh,

[01:25:31] with the witch's road to circle.

[01:25:32] So we start where we ended like in Agatha's basement.

[01:25:35] It's now everything sterile,

[01:25:36] blah,

[01:25:37] blah,

[01:25:37] blah.

[01:25:37] And we learned that Agatha,

[01:25:39] of course,

[01:25:39] is protecting Billy from Rio,

[01:25:42] uh,

[01:25:42] until just like,

[01:25:44] uh,

[01:25:44] I feel like,

[01:25:45] uh,

[01:25:46] Dumbledore raised Harry,

[01:25:48] uh,

[01:25:48] to die at the end.

[01:25:50] This was like,

[01:25:51] oh,

[01:25:52] you have to sacrifice yourself,

[01:25:53] uh,

[01:25:54] to Rio.

[01:25:54] And that's the only way,

[01:25:55] um,

[01:25:56] that,

[01:25:56] you know,

[01:25:57] Agatha gets to live.

[01:25:58] So then we get a final pew pew battle,

[01:26:01] um,

[01:26:01] which was like interesting and not at the same time,

[01:26:05] which I don't,

[01:26:06] I don't know how I feel.

[01:26:08] It was good that it was short and sweet,

[01:26:10] right?

[01:26:10] It was only a few minutes.

[01:26:12] Uh,

[01:26:13] we had the whole thing.

[01:26:14] We're,

[01:26:14] we blast,

[01:26:15] uh,

[01:26:16] Billy into the greenhouse and it's like,

[01:26:18] oh my gosh,

[01:26:18] what's going to happen.

[01:26:19] And then it really kind of ends in this sweet moment where basically

[01:26:23] Rio comes out.

[01:26:23] I was like,

[01:26:23] all right,

[01:26:24] enough of this.

[01:26:24] Like one of y'all had to come with me.

[01:26:26] And that's,

[01:26:26] you know,

[01:26:29] stop the battle.

[01:26:30] You're not going to beat me.

[01:26:33] So one of y'all just got to come with me.

[01:26:34] Like,

[01:26:34] come on.

[01:26:34] Yeah.

[01:26:35] Our CGI budget is up.

[01:26:36] We can't do this anymore.

[01:26:37] We can't do another pew pew.

[01:26:39] We've run out of money.

[01:26:40] Uh,

[01:26:41] so one of y'all has to come with me.

[01:26:42] And then of course,

[01:26:43] you know,

[01:26:44] Billy's like,

[01:26:45] I'll do the hero thing.

[01:26:47] Take me.

[01:26:47] And I was like,

[01:26:49] you got it.

[01:26:49] Take him.

[01:26:50] Like,

[01:26:50] we're good.

[01:26:50] We're good to go.

[01:26:51] It's like,

[01:26:51] whoa,

[01:26:52] you weren't supposed to say that.

[01:26:53] So when I tell y'all,

[01:26:55] I screamed.

[01:26:56] I said,

[01:26:56] oh,

[01:26:57] oh yes.

[01:26:58] Yeah.

[01:26:59] Cause you just,

[01:26:59] I miss like selfish characters.

[01:27:02] Like,

[01:27:02] I think they're so funny.

[01:27:04] And in reality,

[01:27:06] I just met this kid.

[01:27:08] That's why she called him pet for the longest time.

[01:27:11] That ain't someone real to her.

[01:27:14] I just love it.

[01:27:15] He's like,

[01:27:15] yeah,

[01:27:16] he's like,

[01:27:16] yeah,

[01:27:16] take me.

[01:27:16] She's like,

[01:27:17] yeah,

[01:27:17] take him.

[01:27:17] He's like,

[01:27:18] wait a minute.

[01:27:18] No,

[01:27:18] you're supposed to,

[01:27:19] you're supposed to say,

[01:27:20] no,

[01:27:20] take me.

[01:27:21] Like,

[01:27:21] that's how this is supposed to go.

[01:27:23] He's like,

[01:27:23] you're the adult.

[01:27:25] Exactly.

[01:27:25] And then he like lays,

[01:27:27] he lays a telepathic guilt trip on her.

[01:27:29] I'm like,

[01:27:30] like,

[01:27:30] yo,

[01:27:31] you really going to do this?

[01:27:32] Like,

[01:27:32] is this what you did to Nikki?

[01:27:33] And it's like,

[01:27:33] oh,

[01:27:34] that's the trigger.

[01:27:35] And for,

[01:27:36] you know,

[01:27:37] whatever sense that Agatha gets now,

[01:27:39] she's like,

[01:27:40] all right,

[01:27:41] fine.

[01:27:41] Let's do this thing.

[01:27:43] Let's get,

[01:27:43] let's get the kiss of death going.

[01:27:45] And,

[01:27:50] I will say that moment,

[01:27:51] like it's,

[01:27:52] it's good from like a character growth perspective.

[01:27:55] Like Sasha,

[01:27:55] you were saying earlier,

[01:27:56] like,

[01:27:56] you know,

[01:27:57] she doesn't stop sucking Alice's power.

[01:28:00] So it's more powerful when she stops sucking Billy's.

[01:28:02] And then like,

[01:28:03] you know,

[01:28:03] you see her character growth,

[01:28:04] you see that she's actually willing to be good.

[01:28:06] But Matt and I were discussing this and we were like,

[01:28:10] if not for like Marvel as a whole,

[01:28:12] like they,

[01:28:13] you know,

[01:28:13] they obviously need to set up this next storyline of Wiccan and finding Tommy

[01:28:18] and stuff.

[01:28:18] If not for that,

[01:28:20] it would have been like a perfect capsule of a show.

[01:28:23] If Agatha had actually just given,

[01:28:26] given up Billy and just like,

[01:28:29] wah,

[01:28:29] ha ha and walked away and like gone on to other hijinks.

[01:28:32] I feel like that would have been really,

[01:28:34] really fun.

[01:28:34] And like really would have fit the Agatha all along title that we

[01:28:38] eventually.

[01:28:40] Unfortunately,

[01:28:40] you have to find some sort of redemption.

[01:28:43] Oh my God.

[01:28:44] Like exactly.

[01:28:46] Without that.

[01:28:47] Villains.

[01:28:47] Come on.

[01:28:48] Yeah.

[01:28:48] Without that,

[01:28:48] it would have been the perfect villain story,

[01:28:50] right?

[01:28:50] Like we get these quote unquote villain movies all the time.

[01:28:53] They aren't really villain movies.

[01:28:54] Like I think of like a venom or these other villain stories that they end up

[01:28:58] being just kind of anti-heroes.

[01:29:00] And Agatha kind of follows along that same route.

[01:29:03] Although she does show many selfish ways throughout the journey,

[01:29:07] she does end making the ultimate sacrifice,

[01:29:11] which is,

[01:29:11] you know,

[01:29:12] for her is not really that much of a sacrifice.

[01:29:14] Because she technically is still around.

[01:29:18] Yeah.

[01:29:18] She's just a ghost.

[01:29:19] She's got a new outfit and dyed her hair.

[01:29:21] That's really all that has changed.

[01:29:23] She can even grab shit if she really,

[01:29:24] you know,

[01:29:25] concentrates.

[01:29:28] Oh my God.

[01:29:28] Her becoming the like Mr.

[01:29:30] Miyagi at the end is so funny.

[01:29:35] Yeah.

[01:29:35] That really fits her comic book character,

[01:29:38] which,

[01:29:39] you know,

[01:29:40] if we're thinking about,

[01:29:41] you know,

[01:29:42] I,

[01:29:42] I,

[01:29:43] I guess I'm probably the one that can speak to this.

[01:29:45] The,

[01:29:45] the close to close to comic book,

[01:29:47] you know,

[01:29:48] scale was not,

[01:29:49] was not high.

[01:29:50] Like there's a lot of things that are different from comic books and,

[01:29:52] and these different storytelling,

[01:29:54] which is kind of like the MCU thing.

[01:29:55] Like we're going to kind of do the comic book thing,

[01:29:57] but not really.

[01:29:59] So I mean,

[01:29:59] but Agatha Harkness is kind of like a guide or mentor in the comic book

[01:30:03] stories,

[01:30:03] mostly of the Scarlet Witch.

[01:30:05] Actually,

[01:30:05] she does a lot of mentoring to her,

[01:30:07] but she's kind of a mentor to the mystical arts wielders in the comic

[01:30:11] universe.

[01:30:12] So for her to end up in this capacity for Billy does kind of fit her

[01:30:17] character in the comics.

[01:30:19] Here's the thing I will say though,

[01:30:20] if all we see of Catherine Han in the future of the MCU is with this

[01:30:26] like stupid ghosty overlay,

[01:30:28] I'm going to be so pissed because she's such a good actress.

[01:30:30] I just let her,

[01:30:31] let her act in full color.

[01:30:33] Like,

[01:30:33] I don't want to see her translucent on my screen,

[01:30:36] you know,

[01:30:36] any way that she continues in the world I'm excited about,

[01:30:40] but I just,

[01:30:40] I really hope we get,

[01:30:42] you know,

[01:30:42] I hope we get her,

[01:30:43] her body back,

[01:30:44] please.

[01:30:45] A little bit.

[01:30:47] Something,

[01:30:47] a flashback,

[01:30:48] right?

[01:30:49] Oh my gosh.

[01:30:50] It's just,

[01:30:51] yeah,

[01:30:51] I loved it.

[01:30:52] And of course the reveal,

[01:30:53] right?

[01:30:54] Of that is Billy's all along and his mind and,

[01:30:59] and all of it just so good.

[01:31:01] I don't know.

[01:31:02] It's just their reveals.

[01:31:03] They did beautifully.

[01:31:05] Yeah.

[01:31:06] I mean,

[01:31:06] because I'm too much online in this world,

[01:31:08] I,

[01:31:09] you know,

[01:31:10] I had heard people theorize that this was the thing,

[01:31:13] but then for it to actually come to realization in this way and the way they revealed it and the way that they went back and showed us.

[01:31:20] So like,

[01:31:20] you should have figured this out a long time ago,

[01:31:22] dummy.

[01:31:23] Like it was,

[01:31:24] it was a really,

[01:31:25] it was a really great way to,

[01:31:26] it was a really great way to reveal it.

[01:31:28] Almost like the people are calling it the kind of Kaiser.

[01:31:30] So saying of totally realizing that he was realizing for us,

[01:31:35] the audience realizing he was,

[01:31:36] it was Billy all along.

[01:31:37] It was really,

[01:31:38] that's really what this show is.

[01:31:42] Was a great reveal.

[01:31:44] And it's like,

[01:31:44] wow,

[01:31:45] you really are just like your mother,

[01:31:47] like trapping people in a reality of your own making and,

[01:31:51] you know,

[01:31:51] making them do things.

[01:31:52] And I love the kind of cop out where Billy's like,

[01:31:56] so you're saying I killed these people.

[01:31:58] And it's like,

[01:31:59] well,

[01:32:01] technically you saved one because I was going to kill these people.

[01:32:03] Anyway,

[01:32:04] really?

[01:32:05] You saved a life.

[01:32:06] If you think about it was like,

[01:32:07] okay,

[01:32:08] good cop out,

[01:32:09] good way to kind of excuse our hero of killing people.

[01:32:12] But to see that realization come to his mind and how he processes that.

[01:32:18] Yeah.

[01:32:18] It was a really great journey for us to take with the character.

[01:32:21] Yeah.

[01:32:21] I love that.

[01:32:22] They also both make the joke like,

[01:32:24] well,

[01:32:25] I guess now like,

[01:32:27] you know,

[01:32:27] I'm kind of your mentor and like,

[01:32:28] we both did kill our covens.

[01:32:31] Oh,

[01:32:32] I said too soon.

[01:32:34] Yeah.

[01:32:35] You just laid the gravestone for those people.

[01:32:38] Okay.

[01:32:41] Yeah.

[01:32:41] I think one of my favorite moments,

[01:32:43] like looking back on the series after we find out that Billy created the road was when Agatha

[01:32:51] confronts him when he finally reveals his powers and says that you and your mom have the same tell.

[01:32:57] Because that was such a line that I noodled on for a long time.

[01:33:02] I was like,

[01:33:03] what is she referring to?

[01:33:04] Like,

[01:33:05] is it him getting upset and like using magic?

[01:33:08] That's kind of what I had settled on.

[01:33:09] But I was like,

[01:33:10] that felt like a really strong line for kind of a weaker example.

[01:33:14] So I just didn't really understand it.

[01:33:16] And then for that to finally make sense.

[01:33:18] And,

[01:33:18] and it's like,

[01:33:19] oh yeah,

[01:33:20] they create their own reality.

[01:33:21] That's your tell.

[01:33:22] Like that felt good.

[01:33:23] I like that.

[01:33:24] Your tell isn't blinking when you lie.

[01:33:26] It's creating whole realities to kill people in.

[01:33:29] That's a pretty big tell.

[01:33:31] It's really hard to pick up on,

[01:33:32] but once you see it,

[01:33:33] it's hard.

[01:33:34] It's minor.

[01:33:34] It's minor.

[01:33:35] Yeah.

[01:33:36] Yes.

[01:33:36] I love that.

[01:33:37] I love that for us.

[01:33:39] And yeah.

[01:33:40] Is there anything else?

[01:33:41] Like,

[01:33:41] you know,

[01:33:42] for you,

[01:33:43] Franny or Jason that we didn't talk about or cover.

[01:33:47] I mean,

[01:33:48] there's so much we can dive into.

[01:33:49] I know.

[01:33:49] I know.

[01:33:49] You know,

[01:33:50] we don't want to be here for mine.

[01:33:52] Yeah.

[01:33:52] But I,

[01:33:53] I really found it to be enjoyable.

[01:33:54] Like I said,

[01:33:56] the mystical arm of Marvel,

[01:33:59] whether it be in the movies or comic books,

[01:34:00] it's not my favorite genre of,

[01:34:02] of comic bookie.

[01:34:03] I'm more of like a action adventure street level hero guy.

[01:34:06] So coming into this was like,

[01:34:07] I didn't know what to expect,

[01:34:08] but I was really pleasantly surprised with what I got.

[01:34:11] And I'm always a sucker for great story and great character.

[01:34:13] So even if it has it in there,

[01:34:15] I'm,

[01:34:16] I'm a hundred percent there.

[01:34:17] So I love this a lot.

[01:34:18] And I thought it really,

[01:34:19] really did well.

[01:34:20] I'm hoping,

[01:34:21] hoping,

[01:34:21] hoping for a season two.

[01:34:23] So that should tell you all you need to know about how much I

[01:34:24] enjoy.

[01:34:26] Yeah.

[01:34:26] I'm,

[01:34:27] I'm right there with you.

[01:34:28] I came at this from a totally different angle,

[01:34:30] which is the witchy coven.

[01:34:32] That's my shit.

[01:34:33] That's exactly what I want to see.

[01:34:34] So I came in high expectations,

[01:34:37] ready to rumble.

[01:34:38] And I loved every second of it.

[01:34:40] Yeah.

[01:34:40] I,

[01:34:41] I,

[01:34:41] we talked about this at the very beginning,

[01:34:43] but I was so struck by how deeply invested they were able to get us

[01:34:47] into all of these characters that were fresh faces.

[01:34:50] Like,

[01:34:51] yeah,

[01:34:51] I cared more for these characters than I have for some characters that

[01:34:54] have been in the MCU for a long time.

[01:34:57] So yeah,

[01:34:57] I just think it was so,

[01:34:59] so well done.

[01:34:59] And we're looking at you,

[01:35:00] the cast of the eternals.

[01:35:01] Oh,

[01:35:02] no,

[01:35:03] he,

[01:35:04] he,

[01:35:05] this is,

[01:35:05] oh,

[01:35:06] no,

[01:35:07] But no,

[01:35:08] eternals more than Jason.

[01:35:10] You can't.

[01:35:11] Wait,

[01:35:12] can I,

[01:35:12] can I,

[01:35:13] can I give,

[01:35:13] can I use this as a form to give my,

[01:35:14] my criticism about the eternal?

[01:35:16] Of course.

[01:35:16] Yes.

[01:35:17] That killed me about that movie is.

[01:35:21] You could not have two minutes go by without them saying slowly,

[01:35:27] intensely,

[01:35:28] some piece of dialogue with the background music telling you,

[01:35:31] this is the most intense piece of dialogue,

[01:35:33] the most intense emotional moment ever.

[01:35:35] That was every two minutes of the movie.

[01:35:38] I was like,

[01:35:38] you cannot,

[01:35:39] every moment cannot be the big emotional moment.

[01:35:42] And,

[01:35:43] and,

[01:35:43] and because they did that,

[01:35:44] it cheapens the entire thing.

[01:35:45] Like I,

[01:35:46] I was so prepared to like that movie.

[01:35:47] And then it was just like,

[01:35:48] I became emotionally exhausted from all of the quote unquote,

[01:35:51] emotional moments that they're trying to make happen.

[01:35:53] That like didn't land.

[01:35:54] It's sad.

[01:35:54] It's sad.

[01:35:55] All the fun that we usually get out of the MCU.

[01:35:57] Yeah.

[01:35:58] We've seen,

[01:35:59] we've seen this go right with guardians of the galaxy.

[01:36:02] You,

[01:36:02] you,

[01:36:02] you look,

[01:36:03] you make us see a squad of people that no one's ever heard of,

[01:36:07] that we don't know who it is,

[01:36:08] but you make us fall in love with them over a movie.

[01:36:10] And it just totally fell flat with the eternals.

[01:36:12] Cause like you said,

[01:36:13] Franny,

[01:36:13] they took everything so super seriously.

[01:36:16] There was no fun in that movie.

[01:36:17] I almost thought it was like a Zack Snyder movie with how dark,

[01:36:20] all the colors were.

[01:36:21] Yeah.

[01:36:22] This is sometimes boring.

[01:36:25] Like the characters are not hitting for me other than like,

[01:36:28] uh,

[01:36:30] Johnny's character.

[01:36:31] Yes.

[01:36:31] I mean,

[01:36:32] he was barely in it.

[01:36:33] He was barely in it.

[01:36:34] And I was like,

[01:36:35] he's the one I'm most excited for.

[01:36:36] I said he did not put steroids in his body.

[01:36:40] And he was like,

[01:36:41] he had surgery.

[01:36:42] For a cumulative five minutes.

[01:36:45] He probably thought he was going to,

[01:36:47] he was going to be a cornerstone of the MCU.

[01:36:50] We haven't seen him since.

[01:36:52] Oh.

[01:36:52] And I was,

[01:36:53] he's rich now.

[01:36:54] So.

[01:36:55] Period.

[01:36:56] Him and Sean Chi,

[01:36:57] when they get together,

[01:36:58] it's over for you hoes.

[01:37:02] Never.

[01:37:02] But you know,

[01:37:03] I can never not take a minute to bash the Eternals.

[01:37:06] So I love that you feel that same way for Annie.

[01:37:09] Yeah.

[01:37:09] Brief future.

[01:37:10] I just never gotten to talk about it with anybody.

[01:37:11] So I've been holding on to that for like years now.

[01:37:14] Um,

[01:37:14] but yeah,

[01:37:14] anyways,

[01:37:15] you know,

[01:37:15] the contrast is like Eternals.

[01:37:17] So self-serious to the point of falling flat.

[01:37:20] Agatha all along,

[01:37:21] they committed to being silly and did so in a way that then caught us off

[01:37:26] guard when they were incredibly serious and emotional.

[01:37:28] And it was chef's kiss.

[01:37:30] So good.

[01:37:31] Correct.

[01:37:31] And listen,

[01:37:32] I will always consume a Marvel property,

[01:37:35] you know,

[01:37:35] good or bad,

[01:37:36] but I am grateful that this was very good and smart and women's driven,

[01:37:43] but it didn't feel nothing felt like it was hitting you over the head.

[01:37:47] It just,

[01:37:48] you know,

[01:37:48] again,

[01:37:49] I said the thing,

[01:37:50] but you know,

[01:37:51] it,

[01:37:52] it felt like you were on a journey and you were really going down the road

[01:37:56] with these characters that you just didn't know.

[01:37:58] And,

[01:37:59] and that's because of smart writing and good casting.

[01:38:02] So I just,

[01:38:04] I appreciate all of it.

[01:38:05] And you know,

[01:38:06] whatever is next,

[01:38:07] I can't wait.

[01:38:08] Hopefully vision quest is not,

[01:38:10] you know,

[01:38:10] a failure because we're two for two.

[01:38:13] So with this universe.

[01:38:15] Yeah.

[01:38:16] yeah.

[01:38:16] At the current stage of the marvelous cinematic cinematic universe,

[01:38:19] we needed to win.

[01:38:20] So this was like,

[01:38:21] this is good.

[01:38:21] I feel like I needed to win a vision quest.

[01:38:24] I like,

[01:38:24] if it is just about like,

[01:38:26] I'm just,

[01:38:26] please cross my fingers that like Agatha's there.

[01:38:29] I want Billy to be there because if it is just white vision,

[01:38:33] like talking about the,

[01:38:35] like,

[01:38:35] you know,

[01:38:36] philosophy.

[01:38:37] Yeah.

[01:38:37] No,

[01:38:38] we don't want it.

[01:38:39] We don't want it to be a journey to build vision back together.

[01:38:41] And that's just it.

[01:38:42] There has to be other,

[01:38:43] other elements that come into play.

[01:38:46] Like that's,

[01:38:47] that's where that,

[01:38:48] that's where humanity fails us.

[01:38:50] Right.

[01:38:50] Because there's only so much,

[01:38:51] there's only so much you can do with these live human people that we need to

[01:38:54] bring together to do movies and television shows.

[01:38:56] If this was,

[01:38:57] if this was an animated project,

[01:38:59] if this was the comic books,

[01:39:00] we could have a,

[01:39:00] we could have a series tomorrow,

[01:39:02] but because we have to deal with all these real human people paying them,

[01:39:05] making them come in and act,

[01:39:07] who knows when we're going to get the following to this,

[01:39:09] which is one of Marvel's biggest problems.

[01:39:11] Is they have this big vision,

[01:39:14] but not intended,

[01:39:16] but you know,

[01:39:17] not enough time,

[01:39:18] not enough resource to make it fulfilled because it's not a comic book.

[01:39:22] We could just write it,

[01:39:23] draw it and be out the door.

[01:39:24] You have to do so much.

[01:39:26] So I'm just,

[01:39:26] I'm hoping against hope that we get an Agatha all along season two,

[01:39:30] where we can rightfully answer some of the questions that we have here.

[01:39:33] The fact that we leave this show of like,

[01:39:36] all right,

[01:39:36] let's go find Tommy.

[01:39:38] You're giving me a promise that we're going to see that journey.

[01:39:41] That's what you're doing when you say that.

[01:39:43] So you better show me at some point.

[01:39:46] We're pinky swearing.

[01:39:46] Yeah,

[01:39:47] that's what you're doing.

[01:39:48] Like,

[01:39:49] don't,

[01:39:49] don't tell me,

[01:39:51] show me.

[01:39:51] And that,

[01:39:52] that's like,

[01:39:52] that's my biggest thing with Marvel.

[01:39:53] Don't just tell me it,

[01:39:54] it happened.

[01:39:55] Show it to me.

[01:39:56] I want it.

[01:39:57] So if Marvel,

[01:39:59] Marvel,

[01:40:00] I know you're watching.

[01:40:01] It better happen.

[01:40:02] I need it.

[01:40:03] Cause now you got me hooked on Agatha and Billy.

[01:40:06] So you need to give me more.

[01:40:08] Somebody at Marvel is watching right now.

[01:40:09] And they're like,

[01:40:10] shit.

[01:40:10] Like,

[01:40:10] damn it.

[01:40:11] Show it.

[01:40:12] Don't tell.

[01:40:12] Exactly.

[01:40:15] The fact that we saw Tommy,

[01:40:19] but we didn't really see Tommy's like,

[01:40:21] we still haven't casted Tommy,

[01:40:22] obviously.

[01:40:23] So they were like generic young boy.

[01:40:28] It doesn't matter what you look like.

[01:40:30] Yeah.

[01:40:32] So yeah,

[01:40:34] we just need to pick up these threads.

[01:40:35] And because we've got a lot of threads that are on the ground,

[01:40:37] we just got to pick up one of the,

[01:40:38] one or two of these Agatha threads and play them out for us.

[01:40:42] What's new.

[01:40:43] Are we surprised that this is the state of Marvel.

[01:40:46] And one last question before we go,

[01:40:48] but next Marvel project you're excited for,

[01:40:52] or is there one?

[01:40:53] Maybe there isn't.

[01:40:54] And that's okay.

[01:40:56] Franny.

[01:40:58] I'm excited for the rumored Scarlet,

[01:41:00] which I,

[01:41:02] I love,

[01:41:03] I said at the beginning,

[01:41:04] I love the Scarlet witch.

[01:41:05] I think she's such a badass.

[01:41:06] And I feel like anything that Elizabeth Olsen participates in,

[01:41:10] I will be psyched about.

[01:41:12] So that's what I'm excited for.

[01:41:14] That's probably a long ways off,

[01:41:16] but I am willing to wait.

[01:41:18] I am being patient.

[01:41:19] Cause I feel like a lot of the other stuff that's happening right now,

[01:41:21] I'm much less excited about.

[01:41:23] Yeah.

[01:41:23] The witch's road is a circle.

[01:41:25] So we'll come back to one that one day.

[01:41:27] We'll be back.

[01:41:28] We'll be back.

[01:41:28] Exactly.

[01:41:29] Well,

[01:41:30] at the,

[01:41:30] at the finale of Agatha before,

[01:41:32] before it came on,

[01:41:33] you saw kind of a trailer of things coming up.

[01:41:35] Uh,

[01:41:36] and I'm very excited for most of it.

[01:41:38] I would say,

[01:41:39] uh,

[01:41:39] we've got,

[01:41:39] that's how I feel too.

[01:41:41] Yeah.

[01:41:41] We've got daredevil born again,

[01:41:42] which is coming out,

[01:41:43] which is Jason.

[01:41:45] That's my jam.

[01:41:46] That is my,

[01:41:46] my jam to the max.

[01:41:48] So I'm super duper excited for that.

[01:41:50] We've got a new Spider-Man animated show coming out,

[01:41:52] which is also my jam.

[01:41:54] Uh,

[01:41:54] we've got the new wonder man series,

[01:41:56] which,

[01:41:57] uh,

[01:41:57] I think it looks very interesting.

[01:42:00] Uh,

[01:42:00] kind of feels like an offbeat Marvel project.

[01:42:03] It's got,

[01:42:04] uh,

[01:42:04] Yaya Abdul-Mateen in it.

[01:42:06] And it's got,

[01:42:06] uh,

[01:42:07] Ben Kingsley coming back as Trevor Slattery,

[01:42:10] uh,

[01:42:10] being like this acting coach.

[01:42:12] So I'm,

[01:42:13] I'm excited to see what that's all about.

[01:42:15] So the previews we got for all these things really kind of piqued my

[01:42:18] interest.

[01:42:18] So I'm really hopeful.

[01:42:20] Oh,

[01:42:20] and Ironheart as well,

[01:42:21] which seems to be,

[01:42:23] it seems to have some mystical elements itself.

[01:42:25] We're going to have a lot of kind of demons.

[01:42:28] I think so.

[01:42:31] I forgot about that.

[01:42:33] As Mephisto.

[01:42:35] And we're going to see Mephisto,

[01:42:36] the hood in there,

[01:42:37] which was like kind of this demonic mystical being in Ironheart,

[01:42:40] which you wouldn't think.

[01:42:41] Right.

[01:42:42] You know,

[01:42:42] like it fits there,

[01:42:43] but I got my trust in Marvel.

[01:42:46] They've been on a good track record since,

[01:42:48] uh,

[01:42:48] secret invasion.

[01:42:49] So I'm hopeful for them to see what's going on there.

[01:42:53] So I'm very excited for what's to come,

[01:42:55] uh,

[01:42:56] for Marvel.

[01:42:57] yeah,

[01:42:58] I,

[01:42:58] I love that.

[01:42:59] Thank you,

[01:42:59] Jason.

[01:43:00] Yeah.

[01:43:00] And I think for me,

[01:43:01] um,

[01:43:02] I'm really excited about Thunderbolts because just because we've talked

[01:43:05] about it for so damn long that like,

[01:43:07] you just come on already.

[01:43:09] Uh,

[01:43:09] so that's why I'm really,

[01:43:11] and fantastic for,

[01:43:12] again,

[01:43:13] people are going to like think I'm a fool,

[01:43:16] but I,

[01:43:17] you know,

[01:43:18] love the stupid,

[01:43:19] um,

[01:43:20] fantastic for,

[01:43:21] uh,

[01:43:22] movies that we've watched.

[01:43:23] You know,

[01:43:23] Chris,

[01:43:24] the fact that Chris Evans isn't going to be,

[01:43:27] you know,

[01:43:27] the human torch is like stressing me out.

[01:43:30] And,

[01:43:31] but it's like,

[01:43:31] you got,

[01:43:32] you got some of that in Wolverine and Deadpool.

[01:43:33] So that's,

[01:43:34] you know,

[01:43:35] and I screamed when he said flame on,

[01:43:39] uh,

[01:43:40] uh,

[01:43:40] Oh my word.

[01:43:42] But,

[01:43:42] uh,

[01:43:43] yeah.

[01:43:43] So I think I'm really excited for Thunderbolts just cause like they've been

[01:43:46] teasing it for too damn long.

[01:43:48] Uh,

[01:43:48] and alleged,

[01:43:49] and there's any X-Men thing you,

[01:43:51] you want to drop my way,

[01:43:52] please.

[01:43:53] You know,

[01:43:54] I'm poor.

[01:43:54] I'll take it all.

[01:43:55] Help me.

[01:43:56] So anything X-Men,

[01:43:58] I'm,

[01:43:58] I'm sad.

[01:43:59] I don't care if it's like a little,

[01:44:00] you know,

[01:44:01] one little,

[01:44:01] uh,

[01:44:02] zoom and it's gone.

[01:44:04] And then I have to watch it,

[01:44:06] you know,

[01:44:06] slow down on a YouTube video.

[01:44:08] I don't care.

[01:44:09] Okay.

[01:44:09] X-Men,

[01:44:10] give me,

[01:44:11] um,

[01:44:11] yeah.

[01:44:12] So that,

[01:44:12] that's where I am.

[01:44:14] And for any adjacent,

[01:44:15] just thank you so much for giving me your time to do this.

[01:44:19] This was truly a joy,

[01:44:21] which I already knew it would be.

[01:44:23] Um,

[01:44:24] and with that,

[01:44:25] where can the people find you for any?

[01:44:28] Um,

[01:44:28] yeah,

[01:44:29] I am,

[01:44:29] you know,

[01:44:30] I'm online.

[01:44:31] Uh,

[01:44:31] my username for everything is at hail the veil.

[01:44:34] Um,

[01:44:35] mostly on Instagram and,

[01:44:37] um,

[01:44:38] yeah,

[01:44:39] I'm not very active though.

[01:44:40] So I don't know that there's much to see.

[01:44:41] If you really want to seek something out,

[01:44:42] that's where it is.

[01:44:43] Listen,

[01:44:44] talk to radio.

[01:44:45] Okay.

[01:44:45] About all,

[01:44:46] all things supernatural.

[01:44:48] I'm Marvel.

[01:44:49] Yeah.

[01:44:50] Come find me.

[01:44:51] I'll give you a tarot reading.

[01:44:52] That's when we really dig into things,

[01:44:54] you know?

[01:44:54] Yeah.

[01:44:55] Oh my gosh.

[01:44:55] First of all,

[01:44:56] do that for me.

[01:44:57] Um,

[01:44:57] I live in the Bay area and I'm just kidding.

[01:45:00] Oh my God.

[01:45:01] Yeah.

[01:45:02] Um,

[01:45:02] I live in Oakland.

[01:45:03] Um,

[01:45:04] and yeah,

[01:45:05] Jason,

[01:45:06] where can the people as if they didn't already know you,

[01:45:08] but where can they find you?

[01:45:10] Uh,

[01:45:10] you can find me currently on the sus pool.

[01:45:12] That is Twitter at J A Y R 1 0 A 5.

[01:45:15] I don't know how long I'll be there.

[01:45:16] So we're going to blue sky guys.

[01:45:20] That's why I was like,

[01:45:21] should I say my turn?

[01:45:22] I'm not.

[01:45:23] I'm not going to plug.

[01:45:26] Yeah.

[01:45:26] Yeah.

[01:45:27] Uh,

[01:45:27] as far as podcasts go,

[01:45:28] uh,

[01:45:29] I've recently,

[01:45:29] we've been on the Rob has podcast network on the level first site feed.

[01:45:33] Uh,

[01:45:33] me,

[01:45:34] Asia,

[01:45:34] and Mary Krakowski just wrapped up our coverage of love is blind season seven.

[01:45:39] Interesting season to say the least.

[01:45:41] Uh,

[01:45:42] so if you check that out and want some coverage on that,

[01:45:44] check that out.

[01:45:45] Me and Asia are also covering murder for a site right now on the perfect match podcast.

[01:45:49] So you can check that out.

[01:45:50] You like love is blind.

[01:45:51] Do you like murder for a site as well?

[01:45:52] Um,

[01:45:53] and for a little side project that I have been doing,

[01:45:55] it's called the good pod where me and my co-host Marissa Garza,

[01:45:58] we talked about the show,

[01:45:59] the good wife and all the good wife related properties.

[01:46:01] We are covering,

[01:46:02] we are rewatching good wife.

[01:46:03] We're in like almost a second season and we are covering current episodes of

[01:46:06] Elsbeth as they come out.

[01:46:08] Uh,

[01:46:08] this.

[01:46:09] I didn't know you were doing that.

[01:46:10] I love the good wife.

[01:46:11] How fun.

[01:46:11] I'm going to listen to that.

[01:46:12] I'm excited.

[01:46:13] Let's talk.

[01:46:13] Come aboard.

[01:46:14] I'm ready for guests.

[01:46:15] Let's go.

[01:46:16] Um,

[01:46:17] but yeah,

[01:46:17] if you want to find me on all those platforms,

[01:46:19] all those things,

[01:46:20] I'm more than happy to have you watch,

[01:46:22] listen,

[01:46:23] uh,

[01:46:23] talk to me about what you're thinking about these different properties.

[01:46:26] Uh,

[01:46:26] so that's it for me.

[01:46:27] Sasha,

[01:46:27] what you got?

[01:46:28] Love that.

[01:46:29] Yes.

[01:46:30] And of course,

[01:46:30] y'all know I am talking pop culture.

[01:46:33] Why something's trending.

[01:46:34] If you want to know what's going on online,

[01:46:36] you need to check out mess magnets where Kirsten McInnes and I are talking all

[01:46:40] that and more.

[01:46:41] We just talked about the Martha documentary.

[01:46:45] And honestly,

[01:46:45] it's just like 30 minutes of me,

[01:46:48] uh,

[01:46:49] geeking out over Martha being a toxic queen.

[01:46:51] I love that for us.

[01:46:52] I love that for me.

[01:46:54] So just check out,

[01:46:55] uh,

[01:46:55] mess magnets on mess magnets.com.

[01:46:57] Yeah,

[01:46:58] we have our URL and,

[01:46:59] um,

[01:47:00] you can find out where you can listen to us.

[01:47:02] And of course,

[01:47:04] Matt Liguori and I are talking dancing with the stars.

[01:47:07] Uh,

[01:47:08] we obviously didn't talk this week cause they were off,

[01:47:10] but we'll be back for the 500th episode of dancing with the stars.

[01:47:15] So it's going to be a fun one.

[01:47:17] Um,

[01:47:17] and we just had America on for the last,

[01:47:19] um,

[01:47:20] or two weeks of whatever last episode.

[01:47:23] Uh,

[01:47:23] and we go live right after,

[01:47:25] um,

[01:47:26] the episode.

[01:47:26] So it's,

[01:47:27] it's really fun.

[01:47:28] You know,

[01:47:28] we have a little mirror baller community going on.

[01:47:31] So check that out on Rob is a podcast,

[01:47:33] YouTube channel.

[01:47:34] That's where we go live.

[01:47:35] Um,

[01:47:36] and for everything else.

[01:47:37] Yeah.

[01:47:37] Just,

[01:47:37] you know,

[01:47:38] you know,

[01:47:38] I can't even plug to it anymore.

[01:47:40] Y'all I'm so tired of it.

[01:47:42] Uh,

[01:47:42] but yeah,

[01:47:42] just we'll see.

[01:47:43] We'll meet each other again.

[01:47:44] And of course,

[01:47:46] until then it's been real.

[01:47:48] Bye.