This episode features none other than Katurah Topps (@KaturahTopps) and begins with Survivor 45 Castaway, Sabiyah Broderick.[00:00:00] What's up guys? It's Tobiah from season 45 of Survivor and welcome to the Pride Has Spoken, baby. These are my people. How awesome is it to not only be included in a show that's about diversity and social experimentation but also having this cute little nook of my rainbow flying
[00:00:20] queens and kings out here representing. So there's a lot of things that I represent, obviously military member, obviously black woman. But being gay or being a lesbian is also something that I
[00:00:31] really, really hold dear to my heart. It's a big part of my identity. So thanks for having a space for us and I love you guys. Happy Pride Month. Hello everyone and welcome back to the Pride
[00:00:57] Has Spoken. My name is Matt Scott. I'm so thrilled to be here with you for yet another conversation here on the podcast. And of course I am joined today by the one, the only Dr. Abby Jagoda.
[00:01:15] Hello. Yeah. Hello Matt. Yes. It's a pleasure to be here on my favorite podcast of all time and it is always a thrill that I get to do with you Matt and with my other dear friend, Grace Leder.
[00:01:29] Hello Grace. I'm here. I'm queer. I was a little nervous about that but I am here. Okay and just a quick pronouns check-in. Matt, what are your pronouns? My pronouns are he, him. Thank you for asking. Grace, what are your pronouns? My pronouns are she, her. Thanks for
[00:01:52] asking. And Abby, what are your pronouns? I use they, them. Thanks for asking. I'm so excited to be back. Another week, another gay interview. This one's fun. It's a good one. Yeah. I mean,
[00:02:04] yeah. It's fun and also it's like very heavy. So that has like, it's actually the whole point. Yeah. We're Keturah. We're going to talk with Keturah and it's she's like, I thought it was
[00:02:14] going to be a light little story I told on the show Survivor. And then it ends up being more impactful than she goes out. So a very fun interview we have today with Keturah.
[00:02:23] Yeah. It absolutely amazing. I mean, Keturah is such an interesting person with a very rich life history and she, you know, takes all this stuff that she's been through and she's out there every day fighting for civil rights for other people. And she's just a freaking badass.
[00:02:37] And I think we're really lucky to have her in the Survivor community and to have her on this podcast. And yeah, it's a really, it's a, it's a really great conversation. I'm really excited
[00:02:46] for you all to listen to it. Yes. And I'll say one of like, one thing I love even just about this conversation that's coming up is that Keturah like never ceases to amaze me just with all of
[00:02:58] her dimensions. And I think it's just a great reminder that you can be, you can have so many aspects of yourself and so many identities that you carry and Keturah does it so gracefully
[00:03:10] and beautifully and proudly and like loudly, which I think that's what pride is all about. So I met Keturah in Chicago and we were, we had figured out who we were going to interview. And
[00:03:26] one of the toughest things about this whole thing is that we, you know, this month there's five Sundays in June. So you'll notice that the podcast is in June. So we like kind of snuck an extra pod
[00:03:34] in this year in the Pride Spoken. And that's mostly because we're like, what if we interviewed five people instead of four people? And that's basically one of the reasons, but I was so
[00:03:43] excited. We knew we were going to ask Keturah and behind the scenes, Samura was like, well, you could just ask Keturah in Chicago. And I was like, ah, that would be a good way for it. It'll
[00:03:51] be easier because somebody says tricky about like in a DM being like, will you come on my gay podcast? So I asked Keturah in person and all Keturah kept saying is yes, but do I get a shirt?
[00:04:02] Because I was wearing my Pride Spoken shirt. And just like, yeah, yeah, I'll do the podcast. I'm very excited. This would be great. I would love to do a podcast about my queerness and
[00:04:09] being on Survivor. But also, where do I get one of those great t-shirts? So I believe it's a perfect segue to talk about the shirts and also our new buffs this year because now Keturah is probably
[00:04:18] going to want a buff. So Rob's website.com slash pride buff or robiswebsite.com slash store. You can either preorder or order the buff if it's available. All the proceeds are going to Point to Pride, a lovely organization that supports trans healthcare. So that's quite amazing in terms
[00:04:33] of HRT support, surgery support, binders, Femme shaping wear. So an amazing organization. So make sure you order as many shirts and buffs as you can afford them to support a lovely charity.
[00:04:49] Yeah. You can never have too many buffs. It's really a thing. Try them out. Wear it in all the positions. Yeah, exactly. Wow. They're highly versed. You can highly versed. And yeah, with that foolery, maybe we should go to our counter. Yeah, cut us off.
[00:05:35] Social media and online marketplace integration. Instagram, eBay and co. Verben und verkaufen. Neue Zielgruppen zu erreichen war noch nie so einfach. Shopify bietet auf einer einzigen sicheren Plattform alle Tools um dein Online Business aufzubauen. Kostenlos testen und dein Business der Welt präsentieren.
[00:05:48] Shopify.de schrägstrich try besuchen. Einfach Shopify.de schrägstrich try eingeben und loslegen. Made for Germany. Powered by Shopify. So, yeah, that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Made for Germany. Powered by Shopify.
[00:06:08] It is my absolute honor and pleasure to welcome to The Pride Has Spoken the great Ketora from Survivor Season 45. Thank you so much for being here, Ketora. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. And sorry, guys, my voice is coming in and out.
[00:06:16] Obviously, Survivor Finale Week had a number on me. Well, perfect. We're glad to be the post game here and to get to talk with you a bit. You know, it's such a it's such a pleasure to be here. I'm so excited to be here.
[00:06:26] I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to be here. I'm so excited to be here. You know, it's such a it's such an amazing thing. There's now so many queer players in the new era.
[00:06:37] So, yeah, we're so glad that you we could be here to talk about queer stuff and Survivor stuff with you. Yes, let's do it. I'm very excited.
[00:06:43] Well, yeah, well, I mean, what we like to do first, Ketora, is basically I feel like when you're on a show like a lot of people make assumptions about who you are and they get to know you.
[00:06:45] But so what we like to do is like give you the floor to sort of introduce yourself as you would like to be introduced to the community. And then we'll have a little bit of a Q&A session.
[00:06:49] And then we'll have a little bit of a Q&A session. And then we'll have a little bit of a Q&A session. So, yeah, over to you. Yeah. Okay, good. And I'm coming into this completely raw. I wanted to be, you know, unfiltered.
[00:07:03] So I haven't watched you guys past episodes to not, you know, affect the way we have ours today. So just tell me if I need to be directed in a different direction or anything. But yeah, I'm Ketora. I am a queer survivor. I'm a queer survivor.
[00:07:13] I'm a queer survivor. I'm a queer survivor. I'm a queer survivor. I'm a queer survivor. So yeah, I'm Ketora. I was a fourth-place finalist in Survivor 45, which is crazy to say since we just finished 46. That's fricking right.
[00:07:36] I use she her pronouns, identify as a queer black woman living in Brooklyn. I use she her pronouns, identify as a queer black woman living in Brooklyn. I'm a civil rights lawyer, 35 years old, and really just trying to breathe and get my shit together.
[00:07:42] I am a queer survivor. I'm a queer survivor. I'm a queer survivor. I have come through a lot of struggle to learn how to be myself. That's that's me on a daily basis. I'm going to steal that introduction. I think I'm just trying to breathe again.
[00:07:58] I should to get right. You know, you know, that little clip where somebody is like, what do you do? And then you're like, my best, like I'm just trying to do that. I was like, oh, I resonate with that so deeply. That's literally where I am.
[00:08:09] Can I ask? I think you might just win. And I think I think you have the most queer name. Good to her time. I think you win. I think you win for queerness name of anybody who's ever played. I would say queerness name also like I, you know,
[00:08:29] to my own horn, but like badass last name, you know, right. I could never take anybody else's last name tops like. Come on. Like, I love it. I'm like someone who was given the last name leader. I feel similarly. Leader. Oh, wow. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Really?
[00:08:46] Leader and tops. Yeah, I mean, your Gota means strawberry in a lot of Eastern European languages. So that's like, you know, the best of all the fruits. We actually got to know your name is kind of queer. It's fruity. It's fruity. That's right. It's pretty and sweet.
[00:09:05] Like always important. Oh, man. OK, well, now we know that you're the tops and that's established. Yeah. I mean, on the show, you shared a bit about your life story and, you know, it's very different for me. Yes. Nice and generous. No, I mean, it was amazing.
[00:09:25] And like I'm so it's so cool to have someone with your backstory on the show. And I think I'm sure it was meaningful for so many people. And I was wondering if you'd be up for sharing a bit more about, you know, you have this amazing confessional.
[00:09:37] I have to be honest. I just finished watching Survivor 45 kind of recently. So it is fresh, fresh. And you have this amazing confessional where you talk about, you know, when you went back into regular school, you discovered that you were a woman and black and queer.
[00:09:52] And that just really stuck with me. And I was wondering if you'd be up to share a bit more about about that and what that was like and, you know. Yeah. Yeah, of course. And first, thank you for saying that about my backstory on the show.
[00:10:06] It's just so crazy because I remember going into Survivor and thinking, put anything that's painful and scary and, you know, those dark parts of yourself to the background. We're here to win. And right now you just need to only focus on joy.
[00:10:22] And then Survivor just has a way of this like slapping you with just like, oh, oh, oh, oh. Or at least for me in my experience, it was just like, God, like, OK, things that I didn't even expect to come up or to talk about publicly.
[00:10:38] And oddly enough, my backstory being raised in a cult was something that I had thought about sharing in advance. But I really thought about sharing it in a really light way. Like it was crazy because, you know, people are like that was,
[00:10:51] you know, what you were going to share lightly. And I promise I'm not a crazy person. It's just that I kind of, you know, I'm a Virgo. I'm a very textbook Virgo. Great to Virgo. Yeah, I'm a Virgo. Hey, yeah. So, you know, my Virgo lawyer brain
[00:11:10] has been living in a very analytical mode for a very long time. And I kind of walked into Survivor thinking, I'm not sure if I'll end up sharing anything personal, but if I do, I'll talk about being raised in a cult because it'll just be a way
[00:11:24] for me to get something off my chest. Right. Like if I'm if I'm carrying 200 pounds of like weight, then maybe this will be something easy to get off because, you know, in the real world, I have spent most of my life in the corporate world.
[00:11:37] And like, you know, it's it's it comes up randomly. You're like, how do I you know, somebody's like, I don't know. Any reference from the time I was nine to 14? I'm like, I have no I've no pop culture references during that period. You know what I mean?
[00:11:52] I have no like people are like, what did you do in middle school or middle school? I don't like I didn't go like so. It was really more of like, OK, well, at least this secret will be out and I can go to the world freely and easily.
[00:12:06] And then what I realized being there was just it became so much more and so much bigger. Just thinking about how it even happened, and I'll go back to afterwards. I know your question, but also spoiler alert, I'm long winded. Do you think that's excellent?
[00:12:27] That's why we've got a long form podcast here. That's perfect. You know, like you guys already have me here is too late. I'll be long winded. But yeah, it was kind of crazy how it even happened, because I think
[00:12:37] and I think this is how my queerness also led into me end up sharing the stories, because I shared my story on day 20 of Survivor. Wow. And that was the first time you shared it with anyone in the cast or anything.
[00:12:51] That was the first time I said it to anyone in the entire world. Wow. And 20 years like I'd never even said it out loud ever. Yeah. And just like just to be clear, like the story,
[00:13:05] in case anybody listening doesn't know that I shared was that I was raised in a cult and I didn't escape until I was 14. And when I was 13, I was pretty much slated to be our co-leaders wife. And, you know, he was 68 at the time and I was 13.
[00:13:23] So it was a lot of chaos. But, you know, oddly enough, I always viewed that period of my life as just kind of like, you know, you're young. You know, it wasn't it wasn't like violent or abusive or painful.
[00:13:39] It was just kind of like this is our life. Like this is just what we do. And I don't know if anybody either of you guys have had experience with deep religion. But, you know, like if you have sometimes you have families who are like,
[00:13:51] we go to church Tuesdays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays. And as a kid, you're just like, OK, it's annoying, but it just is life. You're like, oh, survivors on Wednesdays. It's so annoying. Yeah. No, that would have been great to have a survivor. I would have been all.
[00:14:08] But yeah, I like so basically for me as a child experiencing it, it didn't feel as monumental. And then when I viewed it as an adult, I was kind of like, OK, that, you know, that's like not ideal, but that's not the end of the world.
[00:14:23] And it felt like a really safe thing that I could share if I wanted to get something off my chest without being too heavy and like shock the whole world. Turns out I was very wrong. And it's very shocking.
[00:14:36] And it's crazy because I just like I feel like survivor taught me that. Because I remember, you know, Evi, you know how those confessionals go. You're in the jungle. You're all alone. And it was just me, a producer with a camera looking at me
[00:14:52] and then like one boom guy, like one sound like guy. And I remember it was day 20 and they don't really show this on Survivor. But for the first 19 days, I had this player who really just like, you know, bullied me.
[00:15:09] It was just really, really mean to me and really aggressive. And it just it was very shocking to me. I hadn't experienced what it would feel like to be like basically in a space where you're like bullied, but you don't really
[00:15:22] get a chance to speak out because you're playing survivor and you need to like be on your stuff. And so he left on day 19. And this was the very next day that I shared my story. And I remember thinking. I should feel relief, I should feel like,
[00:15:38] because the whole time I had been feeling like I'm holding my breath, I'm holding my breath, I'm holding my breath. And I was like, as soon as he's gone, I'll be able to just like and like play the game and feel good and talk to people.
[00:15:49] And actually the opposite happened. I felt this rush of all the emotions that I've been holding in because I couldn't express them and I just felt so low. And I was just like, oh. What can I do to give myself a little release?
[00:16:05] Like, you know, I'm carrying all this other stuff. And that's how I ended up sharing. And I mean, it's crazy because I naively thought this was not something that would bother me or affect me so much.
[00:16:17] And as I was sharing it, it's dead silence in the middle of the jungle. And I'm watching the boom guy with the sound mic and the cameraman jaws drop. And it's just like a bird in the background.
[00:16:32] And I'm like, all of a sudden I see my leg and it's like shaking and I can feel my body shaking. And I'm like, oh, shit, this was traumatic. Like, you know, I didn't realize it, but I'm glad that I did it
[00:16:46] because it was like a teaching lesson for me. Like, I didn't realize the weight that I had been carrying and it helped so many people. And that's kind of what I'm focused on now, like finding a way to use my story
[00:16:58] and my platform to continue to help people, because I thought my story was so specific that nobody could ever relate to it. And in reality, a lot of people were like, I've had religious trauma.
[00:17:11] I've had, you know, been forced into relationships that I didn't want to be in or, you know, all the variations of that that story that came with it. So I'm so grateful that I pushed you. But it was kind of crazy how it ended up happening
[00:17:25] in a really unexpected way. Well, I think too, because I think there is this idea that people have of the modern era, that there is this sort of like thing that the casting is looking for of like, who can we have on the show?
[00:17:38] And then like, you know, unleash their trauma as like their backstory to be a compelling character. And so it's really interesting to me that if I'm understanding what you said correctly, that you just didn't come up in casting,
[00:17:52] that the first time you ever told somebody is when you're sitting in a confessional on day 20 after having the moment of getting the person out that you wanted to get out the whole game and having this like needing this like
[00:18:03] because the game, the survivor is a very strange situation where we've talked about this in other episodes, where when you do have someone who you you but against and we've talked on this podcast a lot about like, you know, the idea of like
[00:18:16] the social experiment and it being like people who your views would directly contradict. And yet you have to act in a way so that they don't vote you out and you don't lose a million dollars. Right. But in this situation, this is you just the voting
[00:18:32] someone out is not as catharsis as maybe you needed to be. And it took something else that happened. But but it never came up during casting. It was like literally it sort of. No, I can't say that.
[00:18:42] I mean, the the fact like the basic fact, I could service raising a call. Like, yes, that that was out there, but not in the way and in the details that I had expressed it. Right. That I ended up expressing it in the show.
[00:18:53] Like they didn't even know that I had been, you know, engaged at 13 or anything or like that we'd escape the cold if like none of that stuff came up. And I guess I guess to my point is that it's it is not such a story
[00:19:06] that they were like asking you about it earlier in the game. And it was a moment of you. I feel like that's that is for me as someone who watches the show as opposed to having you both played the show.
[00:19:17] I do think there is this perception of like people, I think are like annoyed by it, too. There is this of like like another set like the. And I think people get excited about getting to know people
[00:19:27] on a more personal level than maybe we had in previous seasons. But at the same time, there is this like, oh, they only cast people who have these subs, but but the fact that they were not like pushing you to do it.
[00:19:35] And it just is this moment where you decided to share it on television. The whole world. I know. I know. Well, I would say I was sorry. Go ahead. No, go ahead, Katari, please. I just wanted to clarify. Great. So I think a little bit. Yes.
[00:19:51] And a little bit. No. Right. So I think I have this line in Survivor, which I like I hate that I ended up saying it, but I was like, there's so much trauma and pain in my life. Like there's a billion things. Right.
[00:20:04] So they knew other stuff about me. And there was certainly like a pressure to be like, talk to us about who you are. Talk to us about your background. But the same way you're kind of bringing up this modern era concept
[00:20:18] of like we don't want to just have soft stories and just make people into characters. I went into the show very cognizant of that fact. And I didn't want me to be a character. Right. I was I was like, I don't want to be used for views
[00:20:31] or ratings of soft stories or anything like that. Even outside of the cult stuff, I really wanted to. I mean, I'm telling you as crazy as it sounds. I was like, the mission is the million. Like, I don't care if like I was fine
[00:20:46] to be the weak, lame character that people were like, you didn't make any moves. I would be totally fine if like I won and people were like, that was the worst winner.
[00:20:55] I was fine. I was like, just give me that check and I can just I'll be good. I'll sit sit alone quietly with my million. So I was really cognizant about not having that. But then while I was out there.
[00:21:08] You just see so much and so much happens and so much is unexpected that it really just felt like there is a possibility that I may not win this game. I may not get everything I wanted, like even just the fact of like
[00:21:24] when I first landed on my tribe, I had a queer woman on my tribe. I don't know lesbian. I'm like, I want to try with a gay girl who lives in New York. Come on. This is so the theme of the Pride has Spoken.
[00:21:36] The season is just, in fact, the Bellow tribe. I think. Right. Oh, my God. Please. We needed it. I was like, not only is Kelly from New York and gay. My birthday is like September 3rd. Her's is September 5th. Like I was like, come on, easy lay up.
[00:21:53] This is this is the universe. Right. And then I had Bruce, who I'd already been rooting for from season 44. And I was like, there's another black person here. I felt really grateful, like to start. I was like, everything's going to go great. And then everything went to shit.
[00:22:09] You know what I mean? I couldn't make an alliance with Kelly. It wouldn't work. She left our alliance. Bruce like hated me, like literally would see my face. To this day, he stated like you would walk in
[00:22:20] or whenever I would see you smiling or laughing, it pissed me off. Like that's that's the energy that was happening. And so it was like, OK, survivor, like really universe, you know, and then like randomly getting the letter from my mother, who I went no contact with,
[00:22:37] which I had never planned to bring up at all on Survivor. And that is like, what are the odds? You know, having my first panic attack in my entire life on Survivor while dangling over the ocean. I was like, you what is happening here?
[00:22:53] So I started to like come to terms with the concept that like this game is completely out of my control. I don't know what's going to happen. I still felt like I could have won at that point, but I was just like,
[00:23:04] whatever happens, I want to walk away from this experience doing something for me specifically, like no matter what, I'll leave the game and then something about my life has changed in a way that it wasn't before, because what I do know is
[00:23:17] I don't want to go back to the life that I was before. I mean, I am extremely grateful. I'm a very successful attorney in New York City. I'm a civil rights lawyer. I fight and advocate for black rights as my full time job.
[00:23:30] And that's like that was my goal from the time I was deciding to be a lawyer. So I felt very grateful. But I had right before Survivor reached this point where I'd been doing civil rights work for like seven years. And it was so heavy.
[00:23:47] And my expertise is on systemic violence to black people and primarily through policing. And so I was working while we had George Floyd's murder happen and the nation looked to my organization to lead us and what to do.
[00:24:03] And, you know, I was the lead attorney, you know, discovering how prominent COVID had really just murdered or killed so many black people because of all the systemic issues from before. And it was just kind of like,
[00:24:20] I need to get away from all the chaos and I need to just, I don't know, go on an island where there's no news. I'm like, I don't want to watch the news. I don't want to look at a telephone. I don't want to know about politics.
[00:24:33] These are all things I have to do every day in my life. And I just was like, what what can I do just for me? So now fast forward day 20 and I'm like, who what has been going on?
[00:24:47] And I'm like, let me just get this off for me. And I remember even the producers were shocked because they had been saying like, do you want to talk about stuff? Do you want to talk about your life?
[00:24:57] And I'd be like, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, the whole time. And I think I even said, like, I'm not about to tell you my deepest stuff. And then, you know, I'm a first boot or a second boot.
[00:25:07] Like, come on, I'm not about to release myself to the world. So by the time it's day 20, it's like, all right, come on, like you can do this, do it for you. And it really was just for the like the little girl inside of me
[00:25:20] who had to keep those secrets for so long and never had a space to release them. Wow. There's so much there, Katara. I'm sorry. I know. I don't know. I really I really genuinely appreciate you sharing
[00:25:33] like everything that went into you coming in the show and then the show, you know. And I really think I feel like it's something I really learned in my experience in the show as well, that like. That's the whole thing of being on TV,
[00:25:45] that you don't realize how much sharing your story can impact other people. You know, you're doing it for yourself to represent yourself, to win money for yourself, your family, whatever it is. But then ultimately, when you have a show
[00:25:57] where millions of people are watching, like whether they've had that same experience as you or there's pieces of the emotion or the pieces of the story that resonate with them, it can just have such a big impact on so many people.
[00:26:07] And it's like I think that is the most important and coolest thing about the show, casting more and more different people. The more people we have on the show, the more people out there watching in the audience get to see a piece of themselves reflected in.
[00:26:19] You know what seems like a really hyper specific story, but actually, you know, thousands of people have been through it. So it's the best part. I mean, it literally it's like one of the biggest gifts that I've gotten from Survivor. It's like validation, right?
[00:26:32] That like you're not crazy. And then also just like you can help other people, but it's like a collective healing. And I'm really passionate about like healing and just like sharing stories. And I told myself once I share my story, I'm going to like, great, it's out.
[00:26:50] So now I can just keep sharing it. Right. And even as I do that now, I'm like, oh, every time I shared a little bit more, I heal a little bit more. And I constantly still get messages from people being like, you're healing me.
[00:27:04] I didn't know that this was a thing. So it just feels it feels so cool. And, you know, for a minute, I was bothered with like my edit on Survivor because I just was like the girl yelling about Bruce all the time.
[00:27:17] And they weren't showing like very real issues that were happening in the background. And so I was like, what is you know what's going on? Like, why am I not getting my full Keturah character arc?
[00:27:30] And I guess they were just waiting for it to happen at the end. I mean, people didn't even know I was gay. Like literally, they were like, oh, it wasn't till like episode ten or eleven
[00:27:39] when I said like after escaping the cult, I'm black and poor and gay. And then I was like, great. Are my DMs about to get flooded with some potentials, you know? And did you and did you? Yeah, that's. Oh, I mean, I had some offers, but I
[00:27:59] well, I'm grateful for the offers, you know, but I. Yeah, but real ones. It seems like the DMs might still be open. So yeah, the DMs just be clear. DMs are definitely open. It's about to be summer. I'm trying to have a hot girl summer.
[00:28:14] So, you know, I'm definitely available. But I think people resonated more with the weight of everything that I was saying. And so it was like, well, if I have the choice between being like, oh, she's so cute.
[00:28:27] Let me hit on her or like, wow, what a powerful story. And I feel impacted and healed. I guess I'll go for the second one. Yeah. Why not? I totally agree to have both, you know, like I'm not.
[00:28:40] I think it's I think the thing about people not finding out that you're queer until that moment is a really common theme of the new era that they are casting more queer women in particular. But their queer stories are not really shown on TV.
[00:28:56] And I really don't know where that like like why that seems to systemically be happening in this new season. But it definitely is a trend that that for you, it doesn't it didn't come up until you're sharing something else
[00:29:15] that seems to be sort of the focus of that piece of the, you know, the narrative story that they're trying to tell. And so then it also happens that you share that you're queer. But I I'm not sure why it's so common, though,
[00:29:27] but it seems that they cast many queer women. But then people don't there's never a moment. I guess maybe it's like an editing thing. Like what is there that moment of like when do they put that in?
[00:29:37] But but it does seem like it has noticeably been lacking for many, including other people are going to review the season where that is a very common theme. Yeah, I mean, you know. Oh, go ahead. I mean, we're just talking over. Yeah, I mean, frankly, I think,
[00:29:53] you know, not to be too critical of the show, but I think, you know, there is an element where there's people that they want to subject to the male gaze and have people think they're hot.
[00:30:03] And, you know, I honestly like I'm like, they didn't do that to me. But like I first of all, like every single thing I said, I'm like, I'm queer. I'm queer because I really want people to know. But also, like, obviously, fucking look at me.
[00:30:13] I was not a lot of damn rainbow box. Exactly. I mean, I'm like, I think I'm myself now that I went overboard trying to be like this has to be part of my story. It has to be a part. Yeah.
[00:30:25] Even though you can't you literally can't look at me and not know that piece of my story. But like to see what's happened to so many other people, I'm like, yeah, good thing I fucking wore a rainbow underwear if I wanted.
[00:30:35] I think for the most part, I think I well, I think your first point is is fair. I think it's fair to also say we love the show. And also, you know, there's things we could will critique and want them to fix.
[00:30:44] But I do think there are queer women who have been on recent seasons, but they there is like a stereotypical nature of when I feel like when you know it's a queer woman. So like I'm thinking about like Jeannie or Lauren.
[00:30:55] Like there are people who I think like are women, but they, you know, have like more of a butch aesthetic that I think then it's like I go back and wonder how much they even say that like Jeannie is is like
[00:31:08] does I like I'm just having a real talk about her wife and stuff a lot. But again, you know, she was yeah, you're right. You said it, you know, right off the bat versus, you know, there's
[00:31:17] other people, especially femme people and also bisexual women and things like that, which also just in general get erased a lot in society in general because it's easier to think hot girl, you know, that's for men. And, you know, hot girls, it's for everyone. That's right.
[00:31:32] Are for everyone. Let me be clear. I'm going to tread carefully because, you know, around the corner. Sure, sure, sure. Yeah, I can't be doing too much. But I make of all the interviews this season. I was going to say, yeah, just randomly changed.
[00:31:47] I still love you. Call me, you know. But I feel like for me in particular, I know that I'm very straight presenting. I know that, you know, I look very feminine. And so I feel like a lot of times just in society,
[00:32:02] I feel like people don't know I'm clear unless I explicitly stated or be in a queer space. And I think I mean, I almost wonder if Survivor was planning to highlight my queerness more because so right before Survivor, I was in a poly relationship
[00:32:18] with a woman who was also engaged to another woman. I know chaotic and they're really interested in that. And so I was like, oh, this is what I'm going to do. Yeah. But I think, you know, you drop cult and it kind of like talk
[00:32:32] the cult bomb. Yeah. And then like I broke up with my girlfriend. A week maybe before I went to film like, wow, that's also pretty big. Because this is what I'm telling you. I was like, what is happening universe? Like what is going on?
[00:32:51] Maybe a week and a half, but it definitely went down right before filming. And it was like I hadn't wanted to because I was like, keep your emotional equilibrium, like, you know, get yourself together.
[00:33:03] Don't have any big emotional changes in your life right before you go into Survivor. But it was a situation where I was like, you got to go like I can't. Come on, just end this. This is stressing me out.
[00:33:14] I can be stressed out while I'm at the gym and running laps and trying to prepare for Survivor. So I do think that it kind of got pushed to the background for that. But I don't know. When I think about my queerness,
[00:33:31] it is something that I wonder like. Does it get overshadowed by all the other components of me? Right, because when I think about my hardships and things that are most difficult for me in life, it is my blackness first.
[00:33:46] And then as a woman and then my queerness is almost the area of my life that I have the least stress about. And I know that that's a very privileged thing to even be able to say. But I was thinking about this and I was like, you know,
[00:34:00] like my coming out story. And the truth is, you know, if you take into context my background story and everything that was happening in my life, the way I was raised, it's not very shocking that like most of my family
[00:34:14] is my chosen family, like the people who are like my family, family who know me, my emergency contacts. Those people don't share my blood. And so when I was coming out, it was really just a matter of like,
[00:34:29] let me tell my best friends and make sure they know. And it's so crazy because I was thinking about this this morning. Literally, the biggest issue that I had when I was coming out was being like, is my best friend not going to accept this
[00:34:44] more than like, do my parents accept this? Does my family accept this? Right. Because I have been so alone and independent and like, you know, I remember I brought I was home at my family home
[00:34:58] like one summer while I was in law school and I had my first girlfriend and I was FaceTiming her. And my first girlfriend was this really beautiful Vietnamese woman, like random, really up blue. I know it was like it was really great.
[00:35:12] And I just remember like I opened my laptop and I was FaceTiming her and my mom walked in the room. She was like, who's that? And I was like, that's my girlfriend. And I never had said girls, girlfriend, anything like that before. And she was like, OK.
[00:35:26] And I remember being like, and I dare you to say something. It was kind of like, I wish you would. Only because the whole context of my background is like, do you know where I am? Like, I am thriving right now. I'm smiling. I'm in law school.
[00:35:41] Like, come on, I could be in a ditch somewhere. So literally who I'm dating should be the last of anybody's concerns. But my best friend was raised really religious. And I remember she was just really uncomfortable and was like, what is happening? There's this big change.
[00:35:58] Like, what do you mean what's going on? And it was more of a concern for me about how to get her comfortable with it than anything else. So I do wonder if sometimes just like the chaos of my life has overshadowed my queerness, because I feel
[00:36:14] that I understand the difficulties of, you know, just our queer community and like family relations, mostly through the women I've dated and seeing how their families react and being like, oh, if you do have a close relationship with blood family members or you do feel really constricted
[00:36:33] by what your parents think or what they feel, then, yeah, this would be absolutely terrible for them not to, you know, support you. And all that. And obviously those things are is one thing to know it is another thing
[00:36:44] to see it, to experience it and to feel it. I feel that, though, I think I think the when you're coming out to someone, the more you you theoretically have to lose from from that person not accepting you is the scariest thing to happen.
[00:37:01] And so with my parents, I obviously wanted my parents to love and support me. But I was at the same similar to you at that point. The risk of my parents not supporting me, there were things that I would lose out
[00:37:11] on, but in terms of like I lived alone, I had a full time job like I like, you know, and when you're a kid and if your parents don't accept you and you get kicked out of your home or are treated poorly,
[00:37:22] like that's where the scariness of coming out to someone was. And I'd be like a big loss, but obviously the relationship. My parents are amazing. My parents have been so supportive. But yeah, I had close friends who I was like in a way, like more nervous
[00:37:37] than when I told my parents, because it was like, oh, if I lose this friendship. Yeah, that's tough. That's hard. That's yeah, that's going to suck. Wow. Grace, that's like exactly what I'm feeling. Yeah, that's exactly it. Wow. Well, it's what we risk every time.
[00:37:50] I mean, I think when you're queer, you can be like pretty sure someone will support you. And I feel like you will never feel 100 percent like it'd be very rare to have. So when when you're thinking about it,
[00:38:01] when it's like the people you have not told yet in your life, when you and I talk about this a lot, that like I feel like sometimes the reaction that people have when you come out, like maybe like your friend,
[00:38:10] I don't know if you're so close with your friend who was a little bit like, I don't know what's going on is that we get all this time as queer people. We don't get all this time.
[00:38:17] We like have to have all this time where like we internalize it. Like we're queer and then slowly are like, well, it's like that's fine when I come out because I'll be happier. Like, you know, like my life will be more fulfilling.
[00:38:30] But we have all this time where we internalize it and then eventually tell somebody else we might have had like however much time thinking about internally being like, it's so worth it to come out. And then we tell somebody else,
[00:38:40] even if they have an inclination that you might be queer. Yeah, it's the first time there. Last confirmation for that is like we confirm it in our brain way before we probably tell somebody else. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:38:53] Well, I think that gets to I mean, for me, you know, so I came out at like twenty three, twenty four. And I had just like honestly, like a lot of shame that it took me like, quote unquote, so long, even though,
[00:39:05] you know, now I'm a little older. I understand people come out so much later than twenty three, twenty four. Twenty three is not old at all. But at the time I had, you know, just a lot of shame about that
[00:39:13] because, you know, I grew up in a liberal environment. You know, I was like, well, what was I? Why why did other people like have that ability to know themselves? And I didn't. And I really like
[00:39:24] I think for me, so much of it was my own dealing with a change to my own self-perception, you know, like not even not even so much other people. But yes, definitely other people. But I was honestly just afraid to like.
[00:39:36] Yeah, something in me, I was afraid to admit that I was different than I was presenting and like I was different than would be like the quote unquote easy path or things like that. You know, like there's so many of these different elements.
[00:39:47] I think people really focus on. Oh, queerness means coming out to your parents. And that has to be the hard thing. But there's actually just like so many ways in which we walk in the world. Yeah. And relating to all the other identities and experiences
[00:40:00] and things that you're bringing into the world. So, yeah, just just to say to any people out there listening, like there's all sorts of things that are hard about coming out walking through this world and our true identities.
[00:40:12] And by the way, I mean, I think I either was 21 or 22. I don't remember the exact age, but I remember thinking the exact same thing. I was like, oh my God, I'm so late because I was already in law school.
[00:40:24] So I'm like, you made it all the way to college and you didn't experiment. Like you didn't like what's going on? Why are you just learning this now? And I remember being like so embarrassed by how long it took me to figure this out.
[00:40:39] And then at some point in my 30s, I was calculating and I was like, that you're 21. Like, yeah, right. You're way a little young. How great is that? You came out at 21, 22 max. Like this is awesome. But I also think just
[00:40:55] and this is why I have to keep going back to my backstory, because I literally guys, I'm telling you, I thought it was so light. Like I literally thought it was going to be such an easy light thing. And everything kind of keeps coming back to that.
[00:41:10] Like, like even when I'm thinking about why did I come out so late or, you know, why did I come out so late? Right. But in reality, I was like, oh, you know, in the cult, there is no sexual identity. There's no gender expression.
[00:41:25] There's no viewing of how you view yourself. What what makes you excited? What does it like? There's nothing about that at all. And so I remember there wasn't even the word dating. And so I had literally never even thought of the concept.
[00:41:39] And, you know, when you're told, OK, you're about to marry this old man, you're a 13 year old girl. You're not thinking like, yeah, whoo, this is my husband. You know, it's just like, oh, this is just another chore. This is just another thing I'll have to do.
[00:41:53] This is my duty. This is what's been told to me. And so coming out of that at 14. I didn't know anything about anything, you know, related to dating other humans, like there was nothing like that. And now I'm thrown into a high school.
[00:42:10] So like the I remember the like the school county, like didn't know where to put me because I had no school records because I hadn't been in school in years. And so they were just like, well, you're 14 years old. You'll probably be ninth grade. That sounds right.
[00:42:23] And I'm like, so I'm going to high school, you know, like, yeah. First of all, what the fuck? Like, right. Like, how do you go from having a fifth grade education and now you're going into high school? And so it was just very, very scary.
[00:42:38] But when I got there, I was like, oh, all of these people have been thinking about their identity and their sexuality forever. You know, like everybody's ready to go. And so all of those kind of default experiences,
[00:42:49] I feel like society just like pushed you, pushed me into just straightness. Right. Like you just default. Oh, you're a girl like a guy is going to talk to you. Your first kiss should be with a boy.
[00:42:59] So I literally felt like I didn't even begin to think about those concepts. And that's why I give myself a little grace for like not thinking about it until later. Let's see the grace. Yeah, yeah. I love it when people say that. Really like a punk.
[00:43:17] I remember in college being like. Like looking at my first woman and being like, huh? What's that about? Why am I interested there? You know, I mean, and being like as you as usual, approaching it from a very Virgo in a little, you know, objective framing.
[00:43:37] And I was like, OK, well, we have these thoughts. We have these feelings. You should probably explore it just to see, you know, like literally it was like, OK, I'll do this. I'll try it out. I'll see how it feels. And then we'll make a decision afterwards.
[00:43:51] Like that was very much my life. Yeah. And I remember my senior year of college. I was like, I'm sleeping with a woman this year. No matter what. Like it's got to be done. And it was so kind of rigid and very much like get this done.
[00:44:08] And then I was like, oh, thank you, universe. You really are looking out for me, you know? Like and so, yeah, that's why the Virgo way is the best way. It really is. Well, yeah, that's great. I want to say this without trying to diminish
[00:44:27] anything that you experienced when you were in the because I've been thinking about out of all this, but I feel like there is this like again, I don't know what your experience like was like in the call,
[00:44:37] but there is this push, especially in America, and it's happening in Canada to to make it so that experience you're talking about about it being so heteronormative, cisnormative in terms of like we do not mention queerness to kids. We do not like we the idea does not exist.
[00:44:54] Like I feel like that push it like it is a real threat, I think, that is happening in education systems in North America to make the experience of every child like what you the experience that I feel like I'm hearing from like what you talked about
[00:45:11] is your experience to make it so that like people don't know. And I feel like if you like when I hear you, like the fact that you were like, oh, yeah, I just showed up in ninth grade with a fifth grade education.
[00:45:22] And the fact that you are a civil rights attorney is like just pretty incredible. And I feel like that is quite incredible. But like, yeah, I just I feel like the like the way that they're trying to make it,
[00:45:34] like people shouldn't have to like figure out, you know, at twenty one, twenty two to like be able to come out like and start thinking about their sexuality. I just think it's like it feels like that is where this like this push is happening
[00:45:48] from a particular set of society in order to make it more like what your experience sounded like. And that to me is terrifying and horrific. Yeah, I'm so glad you said that, because it's it's just really scary thing of if you don't even know it exists,
[00:46:05] if you don't even know it's a possibility. And I'm not even speaking specifically of like being gay, you know, being a lesbian, like literally just knowing that you could be anything other than what the heteronormative expectation is of you
[00:46:19] and all the different forms you've never heard of them. And just literally speaking from personal experience, you don't know what you're missing. So you don't even get to evaluate it and say, is this something that maybe could explain why I might have these thoughts or these feelings?
[00:46:34] And why I, you know, have this energy about me or I feel differently in myself? Like if you don't know any of those things exist, you really just are stuck in this void. And I remember how confusing it was to first start finding myself
[00:46:50] thinking anything other than just I'm a basic or not, not negative. I'm not just a basic heterosexual. No, but I'm not just like anything other than what had been described as this is the norm, right? It is really scary because then it feels like you're alone.
[00:47:08] And it's so crazy to feel that way when it's like, actually, there are like millions of people who also share this experience with you. And luckily, you know, I started to have these sort of introspective thoughts at a space where I was in college
[00:47:24] and then law school, you know what I mean? I was in spaces that kind of opened up for that. And so it wasn't like a crazy concept. It was like, oh, maybe I'm gay.
[00:47:32] And now I can actually go and see if I feel like that actually applies to me. But if you don't have that around, dare I say, even after that period, like it is scary. And yeah, just risk people not being able to finally true to themselves.
[00:47:48] 100 percent. You know, and I think like it's funny, you know, you hear in the the fear mongering around, you know, social media and how like it could, quote unquote, like turn your kid gay or turn your kid trans.
[00:48:00] You know, if they get to like see this stuff, there's an element where, you know, there's there's there is like a piece of truth to that in the sense of like when you see when you get to see, oh my God,
[00:48:12] that's a gay person, that person's like me. That's cool. And you get to see, oh, I could be trans. I could like change my body in this way. That would feel exciting to me. Like if you don't see those examples, as you're saying, like you,
[00:48:24] it's much harder to imagine that for yourself. So it's like, yes, in a sense, you know, having exposure to this can help. It doesn't transform something that wouldn't otherwise be in you, but it can really, really unlock and make possible and make space
[00:48:40] for identities that, yeah, without exposure to people that have those. It's so hard to figure that out on your own. And, you know, just like, yeah, just all that stuff is so, so important. And again, like to go back to Survivor in the show, I think, again, like
[00:48:54] for those of us who it is safe to share our identities publicly and things like that, I do think it is incredibly, incredibly important to just give as many people those examples in as many different media, you know, as possible. So, yeah.
[00:49:07] And I think sometimes I feel like we're like, you know, I'll tell people that like we're doing the process, like we're talking with like queer survivor players. But I think it's like sometimes I think I underestimate
[00:49:20] like how important it is that like we have like Survivor is, you know, for us, it is a game that people vote each other out. It also is some of the most real TV we see. There's also the way in which it gets edited.
[00:49:33] And so it obviously has like the giant asterisk on like seeing real people, which we're seeing a lot of in the aftermath of the most recent season of Survivor, I think. But at the same time, like it is this way in which we can see it.
[00:49:44] And it's why I really enjoy this, because we get we got to see you and, you know, your queer black man who is on Survivor. But then also there's more to you than a, you know, 90 minute episode
[00:49:55] of a show each week and can, you know, possibly show of you. So and it's crazy, too, just because I never think of Survivor as like my queer show. Right. I never think of I'm going to Survivor for my like queer content.
[00:50:11] But we had like three queer women on my season, which was crazy. I mean, I'm like, well, that's crazy. And all three of us are radically different, have radically different approaches to life, like even in the way that we live right now. We're all very different people.
[00:50:28] And it's like, you know, I feel really proud to be able to be a part of that. Like for people to see me and see, oh, that's something I totally didn't know. I totally didn't see.
[00:50:38] And then also to say, here's how my queerness affects literally so much of my life. I mean, even, you know, my storyline with Bruce, everybody's like, OK, I could turn always talk about where he is yelling about Bruce. But I think it's a powerful testament to my queerness,
[00:50:53] because as a queer person, I am not around straight cisgender older men ever. Like, yes, you know, I was like, oh, so it's teaching for me because I didn't even realize that that was an archetype of a person
[00:51:10] that I didn't have in my orbit to even know how to handle. Right. I was like, OK, I know what it's like to be around men. You know, I'm an attorney. I'm in a super male dominated field.
[00:51:22] And most of the men who are lawyers, especially top New York City lawyers who I'm encountering, they are partners and they are leaders and they are powerful and they make a lot of money. And, you know, they want to make sure the little black girl knows it.
[00:51:38] And so, you know, I'm very used to dealing with men like that. But and another in a very real way, it reminded me that when I'm home and when I'm creating spaces that feel safe to me. That archetype typically isn't there.
[00:51:54] And so I was like, oh, because I remember coming home and I would talk to my friends. And when I first came home from Survivor, I'm talking like Fiji sand still in my braids. And my friends are like, OK, we know you can't tell us.
[00:52:08] But like, how did it go? How are you? How are you feeling? And I just would I just broke down sobbing. And I was like, I had. Of one person who treated me like shit the whole time, and it was an older black man, what are the odds?
[00:52:23] And they were like, yeah, that's pretty common. And I was like, wait, what? And they're like an older black man, like or even not even just a black but like an older man wasn't receptive to you and like wanted to do that. And I was like, oh, OK.
[00:52:39] And they're like, well, we know this because we see it with our uncles or our fathers are like. And I'm like, I just don't have that. Like, I really just keep my circle really small. And it was kind of like a learning experience for me as well.
[00:52:53] So I just feel like it weaves itself into the tapestry of our stories in so many complex ways. Yes, absolutely. And I just want to yeah, I really like resonate with the you know, that's an archetype that's not in your life, your actual life,
[00:53:09] but it's also an archetype that you have to deal with in the world. You know, being a lawyer, I've been like, you know, in my in my cast bio, I wrote that my pet peeve was men. And when that came out, like such a huge percentage of that,
[00:53:22] I mean, it was polarizing in a great way. Like people that were going to like me loved it. And the people who were never going to get it. But you know, there's a whole percentage of people like, how is going to be the first one out?
[00:53:32] Because how could they if they can't work with men? Then how can they possibly do survivor? And it's like, no, men can be fucking annoying. And yet we live in the world and we know how to know how to navigate around them. A lot. Yeah, exactly.
[00:53:46] It's actually more telling that it's like in the spaces where I have to interact with them, they are there in the spaces that I choose. They are not like and I don't mean like all men, but like, you know, the people that I hang out with. Yeah, exactly.
[00:53:57] Hopefully not there, but also in the spaces that I'm forced to deal with them. There are rules, right? There are limits and there are ways to speak up. And, you know, yes, you might get, you know,
[00:54:10] interrupted or talked over in a meeting, but I'm able to advocate for myself. And a large part of my identity has been when I walk through the world, like currently I deliberately take up space. I deliberately speak up.
[00:54:26] I deliver if I see something happening, like I feel proud that I can speak up, that I can like advocate for myself and for others. I mean, that's my whole profession. That's my whole career, because I know what it feels like to be squished
[00:54:39] and not be able to speak and not have a voice. And what I didn't anticipate was that going on, Survivor would kind of bring all that back up when I was forced to be in really close
[00:54:49] proximity with this person who was like, I'm going to really remind you of those spaces. But this time it's not the professional world and you don't get a chance to speak up. And if somebody else sees me disrespecting you, maybe they won't speak up either.
[00:55:03] And you'll just have to deal with that. And I remember being like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, you know, like in my world, you disrespect a woman. Yeah, a queer woman, a black queer woman. Yeah. So you are like it's like that never happened.
[00:55:19] And then it was like, oh, this is happening. And like people aren't feeling alarmed or concerned by it. And I was like, oh, we're all living in this world where we're having to play this game. So you have to be super careful about what you say.
[00:55:35] And there's times that you can't speak up. So it's just like a really interesting experience. And I was like, oh, survivor just tested me as usual. But now I'm ready. I'm like, come on, bring me another man. I'm ready to go with them. You know, I love it.
[00:55:54] I mean, that's really interesting. And I think like, you know, so much, you know, we talk about the show as, you know, the social experiment, the microcosm of the world and stuff. And I think sometimes, you know, when when Jeff talks about things on the show,
[00:56:04] he'd be like, we can really like have these conversations here because this is the microcosm of the world. But it's like nothing can be further from the truth in the sense that it's a game. You can't say your real opinions or your real like the truth
[00:56:16] of how you actually feel about something, because fundamentally it's a game. And like, you know, maybe on that level, it is like the real world where, you know, when you don't have power, you don't have agency. You're not able to speak your truth.
[00:56:26] But let's not say this is everyone fully self maximally self expressed. You know, when you're in a game for a million dollars and you're on a tribe with six people, there's only so much you can do. You know, so, yeah, it's it's really
[00:56:41] yeah, it really forces you into these positions that might be someone's life, but not your life, you know? And yeah, I'm really sorry that that was part of your experience. Oh, that's OK. I mean, I feel like. I went to Survivor as this really burnt out
[00:56:57] corporate lawyer who is just like. If everybody and I just need to do something cool and exciting and pretended not to be a lawyer out there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The I was like, I'm done. I bring anything up.
[00:57:12] I mean, that was more like I know that Survivor Society and I know how they're going to act. Oh, and on top of that, she's a lawyer. But it was also so nice to take a break. Like it really was like an escape.
[00:57:25] Like it really was me using Survivor as an escape. And I think the fact that I walked into it being like, let me take an escape and then pretty much all the themes of stuff that I was trying to escape from came up literally every single day.
[00:57:41] I was like, oh, damn things. I didn't even know that I was concerned about. Came up is really, I think, a testament to the fact that you really just got to keep working on yourself and growing and healing on yourself. Right.
[00:57:55] Like I felt like I'm a very healed person in a lot of aspects. I'm a very big advocate for therapy. I've been in therapy for like the last four years and it's something I feel really proud of.
[00:58:06] And so I walked in being like, oh, I'm good to go. I'm good to handle all these things. Like it's going to be great. Whatever is thrown at me. And in reality, you know, I spent, I would say, most of the game alone.
[00:58:20] I don't I don't know what the stats are on this, but I'm like definitely one of the few players who made it 25 days without ever having a number one ally. Yeah, that's wild. That was wild. And I was like, come on, I'm friendly to like
[00:58:37] I'm a nice person. It's like what is going on here? Right. But it's just the cards that you're dealt and the different dynamics that happen. And I remember being like in my reflection since Survivor, really grateful
[00:58:51] that I had the opportunity to kind of just use it as a time to reflect with me because I spent so much time alone that you you don't have any choice but to sit with your own demons in your own darkness and your own things.
[00:59:04] And what what are my triggers that I thought I was totally fine with? And actually, no, maybe they're coming up here. What are the things that I need to work on a little bit more
[00:59:13] or be a little bit more prepared for and all of that kind of stuff? I mean, it was such a learning experience. I'm eternally grateful because I feel like I came out stronger. Yeah, I think if I can sort of like take a lesson from your experience,
[00:59:28] which is that you when thinking you could take a break from all the stuff that was that had happened in your life and when you're a queer person, I know I've been in that situation
[00:59:37] when I wasn't sure who I was like, oh, I think I might be gay or trans or whatever. And then I put it in a little box for a while and try to think about it. That does not work. Just so you know, it's like it's self open.
[00:59:50] It explodes. So I think if people are listening to this and you, you know, whatever you're, you know, if you're thinking that you might be queer or trans or whatever you're going through, I think that the thing is,
[01:00:03] is like you have to find the like you can't you can't put it away in a box. Like you have to like figure that out. And it might be that you're not actually queer or trans. You know, it might be that too.
[01:00:13] But find people or a therapist or somebody you can reach out to and and, you know, try to figure that out, because otherwise it just like sort of pops back up when you maybe least expect it, like the day after you vote out your enemy. I know.
[01:00:28] I love that. Because one thing we like to ask for and the the podcast, which is how are you celebrating Pride Month? And we sort of gave a gave away the spiel at the beginning. We're close to to to Pride Month as as we approach.
[01:00:46] But we are recording a little bit early. We're still in the May portion of the year. But yeah, we're at the end of May. Right. The end of May. So kind of combining this is one area where my personal philosophies
[01:00:59] and my survivor experience, I think both merged in terms of what the lesson is. But I personally feel that as a black woman, it is the most revolutionary thing for me to do is to be outwardly queer and happy and joyful and celebrating. So for Pride Month,
[01:01:21] I am going to continue not having a corporate job. Fuck yeah, I am going to be outside, soaking up the sun, smiling, hopefully in some beautiful woman's face and, you know, having drinks. My my plan is just to be as revolutionary as possible,
[01:01:40] which means giving myself the utmost joy. And that's literally what my goal is, is just to like tap into happiness. I think it's so it's so common, it's so expected. It's not shocking for someone with my identities to be going through pain
[01:01:58] or have a painful story or painful connection. And those are all important things to share because they're real and they happen and they're happening to so many of us. But there's also so much power in us just accessing our joy.
[01:02:10] So for Pride Month, I'm probably just be like tipsy at the queer beaches, you know, doing the most. I don't know. I'm working on my flirting. You know, I I have traditionally I'm not proud of this,
[01:02:27] but traditionally been that girl who is just like, oh, let me just look at you across the room, like give you the eyes and then you'll come to me. I'm trying to be the I've come to you, girl. So that's what I'm going to be celebrating.
[01:02:39] Happy, smiling, tipsy and flirting and not looking. I love it. Wow. Obsessed with that. And, you know, New Yorkers, watch out. Couture is on the prowl. So I'm here in a sweet, lovable, non-stressful way. Yes, yes, yes. Of course. Of course. That's wonderful.
[01:02:55] Couture, that's that's honestly beautiful and powerful. And so thank you for sharing that. And yeah, which was joy. Yes. Like, yeah. How are you guys celebrating? Well, you know, I actually I go to I've gone to New York. I went to New York last year for pride.
[01:03:10] I think I'm going to be up again in New York for New York Pride Weekend. So maybe see you on the beach. And Boston Pride is a couple of weeks before weekends before that. I don't actually know what I'm doing, but I tend to go to the club
[01:03:25] Revolution. So, you know, you're in Boston. You see me there. Georgia said it's going to be revolutionary. This that's right. Hey, there it is. I actually I announced this on Twitter and I was supposed to have gender affirming surgery last month, but it got pushed back.
[01:03:41] So I'm actually celebrating by having gender affirming surgery, which is rescheduled. We're on. It's yeah, it's rescheduled for June. Oh, my God. Yeah. Like the hugest way to celebrate. Yeah. So congratulations. Great. Thanks. It's exciting. Yeah. You're the other thing we like to like.
[01:03:58] And I think we'll like end it with which is like, do you have any messages for your like queer survivor fans? It's typically also how we like to end. I love that. I love that. I love that. Well, first, my biggest message to my queer survivor fans.
[01:04:11] I love you all like, oh, my God. Let me tell you, during the season. My support levels would go up and down from the general population as you could imagine, but the queer survivor fans never stopped supporting me like the whole time. It was just undying support.
[01:04:32] And I'm so grateful for that. I think I had my premiere party at a queer space. I have my finale or no, we didn't do the finale, but the one before the finale at a queer space like I'm just so grateful
[01:04:43] for the queer survivor fans because they really represent and they really show out and they really support us in strong ways. I don't know if you experienced that, Evie. Absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, let's just keep being our wonderful selves.
[01:04:56] I mean, I just like the best thing we can do is just be out and loud and visible and happy and joyful and sharing our stories. And so I'm going to do my part in continuing to share my story.
[01:05:10] I started doing it right after Survivor ended and I was like, oh, oh, we need to breathe. Take a little break. Oh, this is a sit down and breathe moment before we share again. And so now I feel like I'm finally at that space where, you know,
[01:05:26] I can share it, I can talk about it without breaking down. And it feels really good to be on the cusp of doing something very powerful. Ketora, you're so wonderful. That's so beautiful. Seriously, thank you so much for sharing so much of yourself
[01:05:40] here and on the show and all the parts of your life. And thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you guys for having me. Sorry I'm so long winded, but this is awesome. I love talking about this.
[01:05:51] I think I've only been on this is only the second queer survivor podcast that I've seen. And so I'm just really excited. I hope there's more queer survivor stuff because we're a random niche. You don't realize until after you play survivor, you're like a random little niche category.
[01:06:13] Like gay people like the show, huh? Yeah. What is this? Like who, who was pretty survivor fans, queer people? Like how do what's our overlap like? I'm Grace Leder, I use she her pronouns.
[01:06:25] You can follow me on social media at high from grace and make sure you buy a buff from Rob's website dot com slash pride. But yes, and I am Matt Scott. I use he him pronouns. You could follow me on social media at Matt Scott GW
[01:06:38] and you could get a pride has spoken shirt at Rob has a website dot com slash store and I'm Evie G. Gota. I use they them pronouns. You can find me at on Instagram at Evie Jag and on Twitter at Evie G.
[01:06:53] Gota. And as a reminder, all the proceeds from both the shirt and the buff will go to point of pride. Please buy a product today. This was the pride has spoken. It's so bad. It's spoken. We did it. We did just record.
[01:07:12] Can we just do it like just to say that last? Yeah. I know. One more time. I don't know why I'm making us do this. No, that's good. This was the pride has spoken. Matt, you say it so slow. Wait, wait, wait. One more time. We're done.
[01:07:31] This was the pride has spoken. It's my way. One more. I'm starting to guess. This was the pride has spoken. Leave all these leave all these leave them all in.