Talking with T-Bird: Jonathan Penner

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[00:01:31] This T-Bird you cannot change And things might get pretty strange Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cisternino and we are back for talking with T-Bird once again And we have got a great one talking with Jonathan Penner here today. Of course, the star of Talking with T-Bird.

[00:01:58] It's Teresa T-Bird Cooper. T-Bird, how are you? Hey Rob, I'm great and I'm super excited that we got Penner today. I've never met him. Of course, I feel like I know him. What a great, beautiful story he has from his survivor to the love of his life, Stacey.

[00:02:16] We're going to have so much fun because Penner's never had a loss for words. So it's going to be fun. Yep, one of my survivor heroes here today. So great job rounding him up. So we'll talk with Penner here in just a couple of moments.

[00:02:29] Of course, if you're listening to the podcast version, you could check out the video. If you're watching the video, you could check out the podcast version. Of course, be sure to get these podcasts that we do everywhere. Podcasts are found. T-Bird, what's new with you?

[00:02:43] Well, I'm just looking for these awesome, fun people that I'm enjoying doing. I did want to do a disclaimer on Aubrey. Aubrey Bracco that we just did our last talk with T-Bird. I made a mistake. I usually, Rob, try to research this and get it pretty accurate.

[00:02:57] Well, hold on. Hold on. So T-Bird made a mistake. Yes, you have a correction. My bell didn't do good. Hold on. Yeah. What is your official correction from the Aubrey interview?

[00:03:11] The rumor is Aubrey is with the love of her life and they just had their son, Odie, which is almost a year old. They are not officially married. Okay. That is the love of her life, but she's, I apologized to her once I realized my mistake.

[00:03:29] She said she's more like the Goldie Hawn, Kurt Russell type. So I just wanted to correct that. Okay. All right. There it is. There you go. Not a big blunder, but I just wanted to correct it. No, a correction. Okay. Yes. All right.

[00:03:44] So T-Bird, how's your summer going? It's going good. Yeah. It's going really good. Yeah. You're working a lot or you taking some time off? No, no. Summer is hard to take off during the summer with the Delta. I heard it was like the biggest flight day.

[00:03:53] They keep breaking the record. Yes. So it's a busy time. And then of course talking with T-Bird is cranked up. We're putting out more talking with T-Birds this summer than we have in the last four years. And so it's keeping me busy. And I'm not going to lie.

[00:04:01] I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. I'm not going to lie. Yes. Well, we're more active this summer than we've been the last, the last summer. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. Yes. Well, T-Bird, keep up the good work.

[00:04:25] We, but let's, let's see how this goes today. Let's hear what T-Bird has to say about our guest, the great Jonathan Penner. Our guest today's survivor career span from age 44 to age 52. He had only seen a season or two of Survivor before he was recruited, but always loving

[00:04:43] the Robinson Crusoe part of the game he agreed to play. He was a 44 year old writer, director, producer and actor from California with a beautiful wife, Stacy, and a son, Cooper and daughter, Ava.

[00:04:57] His life was already full and he had already built quite a resume before he arrived on the island on our TV and in our hearts, including being an Academy Award nominee, working with some of the biggest names in Hollywood.

[00:05:12] We first saw him on season 13 Cook Islands where the tribes were divided by racial lines due to some questions concerning a stolen chicken. He was quickly labeled a villain. He later was offered the opportunity to mutiny, which he said he impulsively did causing even more distress.

[00:05:30] He would refer to himself as, quote, a wandering Jew without a tribe, end quote. His tribe thought he was sneaky and no one trusted him, even calling him a rat and a cancer. But he was valuable to his tribe because of his fishing skills.

[00:05:44] He would make it to day 33 before being voted out. He said the high point of the game was having his wife, Stacy, join him for the family visit and compete with him. He would later say he played too hard and too fast.

[00:05:59] He left the game, but not without leaving an impression with the fans and with prost. Three seasons later, he would be brought back for season 16 Micronesia fans versus favorites. He was unfortunately pulled by medical on day 15 because of an injured knee, evacuated and

[00:06:19] then spent three weeks in the hospital. Fast forward nine seasons, season 25, the Philippines, where he returned with two other former players that had also been previously injured and pulled from their seasons. He would say this was his best season.

[00:06:35] He won individual immunity and would make it to day 30. He has said, quote, The game is really hard, end quote, and that the game took a physical toll on him. Quote, My weight has gone up and down.

[00:06:47] I packed on pounds before I played every time I lost a ton of weight every time I played. My body took a beating and has never been the same. End quote. His survivor history is notable, but it is the love story he shared with his wife, Stacey,

[00:07:03] that is unforgettable and timeless. Married for 30 years, Stacey was diagnosed in December 2017 with ALS, also known as Lou Gehrig's disease. He would be her primary caregiver until she passed January of 2021 at the age of 56. Stacey was an Oscar nominated director for Down on the Waterfront.

[00:07:27] He has left a lasting impression for many reasons, from his frequent talking back to propes, his witty one liners and his strategic gameplay. Some say he is the best three time player never to get past seventh place.

[00:07:41] He has said he would play again, although, quote, On paper, I'm a crappy player. End quote. He is not a fan of Redemption Island, believes whoever wins is the deserving winner, would rather win an Oscar than survivor and has learned if asked for a final three deal, quote,

[00:08:01] always say yes when asked. In fact, I introduce the one of a kind Jonathan Penner. Wow. Hello. Yeah. Ring a ding ding. Hello. What an incredible trip down memory lane listening to that was T-Bird. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, Jonathan, for being with us today. Thank you.

[00:08:22] This is the first time we met. Well, hello. What a pleasure. Yeah. Let's have some fun. Well, I'm thrilled that you're here back with us. T-Bird especially has been, you know, for so long has been looking forward to getting

[00:08:37] the chance to do this type of interview with you. How are you doing, Penner? I am doing very well. Thank you. I smashed the hell out of my finger. The nurse today said I pulverized it. This was my pinky.

[00:08:54] I was doing yard work and I and I pulverized the my finger. I lacerated it and fractured it. And that was very painful. Other than that, I'm hold on. Does that mean that you're you're doing you have to do a four finger handshake now? I'm not in class.

[00:09:16] Is that right? Touché. Jeff Kent lives. I'm sure Jeff Kent lives. Hello, Jeff. He's not watching this. I'm sure of that too. The four finger handshake. Wow. Yes, that's what it means. Exactly. How did you hurt your finger?

[00:09:28] Dude, I was pulling I was doing some tree trimming and there was a fence that I was like supporting myself on and didn't realize that I had my finger in the way. I was like, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[00:09:36] I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't realize that I had my finger in between the trimmer and the fence, rocking a hard place. And I pulled as hard as I could and literally almost severed the tip of my finger.

[00:09:57] The doctor said medically, we call that fucked up. That's what he said when he looked at it. He said, oh, that's fucked up. And I said, is that the medical term? And he's like, yes. So that's where I'm at. Other than that, though, friends, I'm doing very well.

[00:10:21] Yeah. Happy to be here. Yeah. I know you are. I was surprised to hear you are on the opposite coast that I left you on. You're up in the northeast. Well, it's been a while, I guess, because now you're on the north. Yeah. What do you call the-

[00:10:40] I don't know what you call Raleigh. I think it's the beginning of the south. Okay. But it's not quite the coast. I'm in New England again. I have left California, although I still have a home in California.

[00:10:58] You know, for lots of reasons, mostly it was very painful, honestly. My kids moved back east or moved east, back east for me. I'm from the East Coast. I met an incredible lady and we are together. She lives on the East Coast. She's still working.

[00:11:19] I'm like you, can work from anywhere. And being in my house in L.A. was painful. Yeah. It was kind of, I wouldn't say ghosts, but just a lot of memories and everybody that I knew knew me and Stacey.

[00:11:37] Anyway, it was time for a new chapter to begin and I'm living a new chapter. How far does Ava and Cooper live from you? You said they're on the East Coast as well. Yeah, they moved. Cooper lives in Philadelphia.

[00:11:53] He's an MD, PhD, a neurologist, going to try to cure ALS, honestly. Wow. I love him. Yeah. And Ellis, my child who was born and named Ava now goes by Ellis and Ellis lives in Berlin, Germany. How long that's going to last?

[00:12:16] I don't know, but they've moved to Berlin. Am I talking very loudly? No, no, you're perfect. Great. Ellis lives in Berlin and is starting a new, I don't know, possible chapter there, but they may come back and live in New York City again.

[00:12:33] They're a little homesick already, but they moved in September. Yeah. How long is it going to be in September? Has Ellis learned German? And that's in September because it is a German speaker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't speak any German.

[00:12:53] I'm a flight attendant with Delta, so I'm a German speaker with Delta. So I've flown to Germany. Most of my career has been flying into Germany. So I have a special place in my heart. But I said, how cool are you? No, not very.

[00:13:07] But anyway, I think pretty damn. So Jonathan, so your career before Survivor was amazing. Writer, director, all everything you've done. Are you doing any of that now? Oh, sure. Yeah. I'm doing a lot of things.

[00:13:22] I write still, and I am also programming films and events at the Tribeca Festival in New York City. Cool. You know, not only am I a film maker, but I'm a real film lover.

[00:13:40] And I co-wrote a book about horror cinema for Tashin a couple of years ago, number of years ago. And so my incredibly trivial mind got me in a position to be asked to program films

[00:13:59] and programs at Tribeca, which is an extraordinary festival in New York City every every June. And we just finished the festival a couple of weeks ago. I was able to get Steven Spielberg to come to Tribeca and show his first film, 50th anniversary of the Sugarland Express.

[00:14:17] That's Ellis's dog that I'm now taking care of. And we had a Godzilla 70th anniversary dance party and we showed a couple of world premieres, New York premieres. Did you say a Godzilla dance party? Yeah, because I love to dance.

[00:14:37] And what we did was we we when I was a young man, there was a club in New York called Limelight, which I love the famous club. But they used to show movies. I think this is not just at that club.

[00:14:50] A lot of clubs would show movies and clips and stuff and play music. And it was like before music videos, they would juxtapose groovy images with cool dance music. So we did that.

[00:15:03] And we got Toho, the company who is the creator of the rights holder of Godzilla and has, you know, Godzilla. I say to people after 70 years, they finally won an Oscar. You know, if you hang in there long enough, you too. 70 years later, Godzilla won an Oscar.

[00:15:19] The Lifetime Achievement Award for Godzilla? Dude, the special effects. Godzilla minus one best movie of the year last year. Anyway, to make a short story long, Toho was willing to cut all of the Godzilla trailers together and hours worth of trailers over 70 years.

[00:15:39] And we got two Japanese punk bands and we got a Japanese DJ to and we got a hilarious comedian who does the science of Godzilla, which is funny to do this show. And we played these trailers at the same time.

[00:15:54] And it was one of the best parties I've been to. And Toho had all their promotional partners send us toys and games and pieces of clothing that we gave out. And it was a it was really great. Really. Okay, so, Pinter, you said you love to dance.

[00:16:09] Do you still love to dance? Yes, but I'm not going to dance right now. Show me a move. Pinter, show me a move. Pinter, I love to dance too. My finger is really injured. I don't want you to break dance. I don't want you to break dance.

[00:16:23] When I'm driving, my girlfriend was driving behind me the other day. We were returning a car to a rental car and I had some old funk on and was like dancing in the car as we were driving.

[00:16:35] And she's like, what the hell was going on in the car? You know, I was car dancing, which I like to do. So Tibbert, I guess we could we could dance together a little bit. But there's. OK.

[00:16:48] You'll just have to you'll just have to take my word for it. I take your word for it. So, Jonathan, like I said, you are you had taken off well before Survivor. So Survivor found you. You were one of the recruits for Cook Islands.

[00:17:04] Tell me how that whole process went for you. And did you think, what am I doing? Why am I jumping into this? Or I knew, you know, what got you there? Well, I was at a birthday party, 40th birthday party for a friend of mine and was.

[00:17:22] I don't know, talking with my hands, probably no doubt drinking and dancing. And somebody approached me and said, like, somebody wants to meet you. And I said, great. OK, what does that mean? You know, and it was it was Lynn Spillman, the casting director for Survivor.

[00:17:37] And she said, you know, would you be interested in Survivor or The Amazing Race with Stacy, who was also at the party? Also love to drink and dance. And we said, yeah, that'd be awesome. And we had just started watching Survivor like that season.

[00:17:52] It was the Terry Deet season, right? It was the season before Cook Islands. Yeah. So we were kind of into it. And I'm like, oh, shit. Yeah, man. You know, sure, I do it. And I said, you know, I have.

[00:18:05] I've written a show for CBS, I acted on a CBS series. I said, I don't know that CBS is going to want to put me on Survivor. But as I've said before, you know, I was so not famous as an actor

[00:18:18] or a writer that it didn't seem to matter, you know. And and and it was the Robinson Caruso aspect. It was the Survivor aspect that was exciting to me. I know a lot of folks.

[00:18:30] Want at that point, I don't know why people want to be on the show now, but at that point, people were like, oh, I can be on TV. And there was, you know, Survivor was a huge show, right?

[00:18:40] There was a young woman who got people got TV careers, acting careers at least started on Survivor. But I just wanted to do it because I understood, I guess many of us understood what an opportunity, a life experience opportunity was.

[00:18:57] The TV part of it was the cost to me, you know, was that I whatever ass of myself I was going to make, I was going to do it in front of a million people or 10 million people, whatever.

[00:19:07] But but the fact that you get to live like Robinson Caruso, you could really only do it if it was being paid for by CBS or somebody like that. You know, the opportunity to live 30 days on on a desert island was an opportunity I couldn't pass up.

[00:19:28] And I just said, look, I'll say yes as long as they say yes. Never really anticipating that they would keep saying yes. So that's how I wound up on the show. Penner, I don't know if I've ever heard you talk about that.

[00:19:40] Were you concerned at all about how going on Survivor would affect your career? Where I feel like that, you know, I certainly could imagine a world where, OK, well, I feel like as my acting is going to be viewed differently now,

[00:19:55] I don't want to get, you know, typecast now as a guy who goes on reality shows. Yeah, it probably should have been more of a concern because it did affect my acting career. There's no question that. I mean, look, there's a chicken and an egg kind of thing.

[00:20:12] You know, I was unemployed often enough to be available to go on Survivor. You know, I was not a famous enough guy already at 44 that I could. You know, when I walked into the room, you you guys may remember this.

[00:20:27] I don't know if they still fly people out to L.A. to go into that big dog and pony show room. Television City at CBS. And I walked in there and a woman named Nancy Tellem, who was the head of CBS at that time, and Nina Tassler,

[00:20:42] who is the head of programming, who I had pitched shows to, had written shows for and acted for. They're like literally Nancy Tellem was like, what are you doing here? And I'm like to ask them, man, you know, I'm jackass around a party

[00:20:57] and they're interested in putting me on the show. I think I'm going to make really good TV, Nancy. What do you think? And she's like, well, you're looking a little out of shape to me. Oh, that's all right.

[00:21:07] I'm going to see what kind of shit I, you know, throw back in her face. And I said, do you want to arm wrestle, Nancy, you and me right now? Because I'll kick your ass.

[00:21:17] Well, I got a big laugh because nobody talks to her like that, you know. OK. And then and then I had this huge hematoma because the doctor, whatever his name was, who took all of our blood

[00:21:27] and and had to give us the you know, at that point, everybody had to get the anti right can whatever it was, you know, all the all the vaccines if you're going to go in the tropics. Right. And I was covered with this hematoma.

[00:21:39] And I'm like, you know, you're Dr. Mengele did this to me. You're your doctor. You've screwed me up. Anyway, I was funny enough that they that they put the show. But this is a long way around answering your question, which is it did affect my acting career.

[00:21:54] And at that time, you really could not be an actor and on a reality TV show. It was OK because my career as an actor. If it wasn't on the down slide, I was looking to do other things.

[00:22:09] And, you know, and and one of the nice things about Survivor is I'm certainly recognized much more often as a, you know, the guy from Survivor than I am from the guy from down Periscope or the guy from the you know, the TV series that I was on.

[00:22:26] So so that's fun and funny. You know, I'm more famous from Survivor than than any acting work I ever did. And Jonathan, so everybody loved you. Everybody, of course, you were a great character as a character. Oh, yeah. As a character. You know, so on the show.

[00:22:46] But like the people, the people that were there. Yeah, it's not. Was it harder each time you played, you know, starting out playing with with everybody new and then the second time going back and playing with, you know, you played three different ones.

[00:23:01] And interesting that you played with, I think, where you played with a tribe where there were two tribes, when there were three tribes and there were four tribes. So you kind of ran the whole gamut of all that.

[00:23:12] What did you prefer the best and how hard which season was the hardest for you? Well, I think I mean, they were all hard in their way, and the biggest differences were how I was approaching the game and how life had taught me to approach it differently.

[00:23:32] You know, certainly the first time that I played and I and as you said, I you know, I've said I played too hard and too fast. I was so excited to be out there playing survivor that I started.

[00:23:43] You know, I had look, I'm not a very good strategic player. You know, I'm really not. People say that I'm smart. I'm not stupid, but I'm not like a game player. You know, I'm not like their poker players or all these fucking professional athletes and players.

[00:23:59] I'm a storyteller and I know how to structure a TV season that I did understand it could bring to bear. But but, you know, my approach to people and to the fact that everyone reacts differently out there

[00:24:14] to the to the to the pressures and we, you know, the three of us know it's it is hard. It's really hard, especially if you're used to three square meals and a bed. Here I am in front of this beautiful bed that I sleep in.

[00:24:27] You know, it's hard when you get out there and you're sleeping in the dirt, stinking with a bunch of strangers who want to kill you. That's a high pressure kind of situation. And the TV cameras are on you more and more.

[00:24:39] I think people realize now what that what that means. Performing for the camera or not performing for the camera has become ubiquitous in our society in a way that it wasn't. You know, when we were all playing the game. But I think that, you know, it got harder.

[00:24:56] I got older. I got wiser. I got you know, I was able to train more effectively, I think, because I knew what was in front of me, what the kinds of real challenges were that I was going to be facing.

[00:25:08] But so I can't say which season was was easier or harder. They all had their own their own challenges and and and they're very, very humbling, you know, for me anyway. And you guys, we can talk about this as. Non winners.

[00:25:26] I always looked at to myself as being the reason that I didn't win. You know, certainly the last time I played, I think that game was mine to lose. I think that I. Could have won it if I had played it smarter or more consciously,

[00:25:43] you know, I really think I would have won that. But hindsight is 20, 20. And I either took my pick your pick your metaphor. I took my eye off the ball, you know, or I got tired or exhausted, whatever. And I blew the game.

[00:25:57] And, you know, part of it is Denise won because she made no mistakes. You know, luck, bad luck was coming her way. And she just stayed straight and narrow and didn't make a mistake. She wasn't the bad guy. And she you know, she didn't make a mistake.

[00:26:10] And that's how you win sometimes. Sometimes, you know, you play tennis. All you have to do is not get it into the net and you win. And you know, Jonathan, who is your favorite winner? You'll Kwan. I know y'all are still very close.

[00:26:27] He's my man. Yeah. Easy answer. Yeah, I figured that was an easy answer for you. Yeah. Do you follow the show? I feel like that from time to time you will. And I love reading your tweets that I feel like, you know, you're

[00:26:46] you have such an interesting way of using Twitter that I feel like is not necessarily like the way that, you know, most people come on and just like have like, you know, a little like quip. But I feel like that you have thoughtful tweets, I feel like. OK.

[00:27:03] Do you do you? Yeah. That was my way of saying I feel like that you've you've posted about Survivor here and there. Do you do you keep up with it at all? You know, honestly, I don't. The truth is that I mean, not for any reason other than.

[00:27:20] My life has taken some turns and I followed winners at war very closely. That was 40, right? Yeah. And actually sort of a part of it tangentially. You'll was extraordinarily generous and played in Stacey's name for ALS.

[00:27:39] And we were able to raise a lot of money for ALS research. And then Stacey, you know, really died. And my life sort of went a different way. And I found myself not watching a lot of TV.

[00:27:52] And and then I don't know, somehow I just sort of fell out of that that routine of watching it every week. So I haven't seen it in a couple of years. That's the truth. Jonathan, you mentioned winners at war.

[00:28:06] So two players that were winners, but not out there. Tina Weston and Mike Holloway. Yeah. I think you have some relationship, a relationship with them. Yeah, I love Tina was certainly extra. I'm going to put my glasses on because then I can see you guys a little bit.

[00:28:24] You can't see me better, but I can see you better. Tina was quite extraordinarily kind. In an unusual way, that is, you know, when Stacey got sick and died, she just sort of reached out to me and we and we had an email relationship together.

[00:28:43] That was very beautiful. She was very, very understanding. Of course, she had experienced some loss in her life as well. And she was just a great, great friend. And Mike also is a great friend. I haven't been in touch with him as much.

[00:28:57] But for a while there, we were really in touch. And of course, he's a jolly, really funny, fun person. And and great. I mean, I was with him when he was going to propose. And he's now happily married and he's doing great.

[00:29:12] Rob, let me hear one of those clips from our. You got it. OK, sweetheart, that we just had not too long ago. All right. You got it. OK, here is a clip from Tina. Hi, Jonathan. What's up, my friend? Tina Wesson here.

[00:29:34] Well, let me just say that whenever I was asked to do a little video for you, I was so honored and so excited to do that. There's so many things that I could say about you. So many. And so I'll just tell you what I feel.

[00:29:52] OK, so whenever I saw you on Survivor, I just thought you were just such a great character for the show because and they cast some really great characters. They cast us normal people and then they cast you care. So they got you right.

[00:30:12] You were so fun to watch and just mischievous and fun and quirky. And I just loved you as a player. But then after the show was over and I find out a little bit more about you and then and in 2020, I find out about Stacey

[00:30:33] and her fight with ALS. You ceased becoming this survivor player and this character that I knew from the show, and you became this incredible human being. And so this is my prayer journal. And so I've started here. I look at the date. It says 6-18-20.

[00:30:55] And it says pray for Peter and Stacey and her ALS. So I started praying for you daily and sending you little positive messages and talk with you a little bit because I had to get in touch with you all to get in touch with you.

[00:31:13] But I just really wanted to be a part of that process with you. For some reason, I don't really know why, but you just really spoke to me as a human being. And I treasure that above all things, just people who are amazing humans of which you are.

[00:31:30] And, you know, a great dad, great husband, great human. That's who you are. But as the years progressed went on to 2021 and then with the passing of Stacey and my heart was just broken and sad. And after you had gone through so much with her

[00:31:53] and just been there for her every step of the way. And so after she passed, I posted this picture in my journal so that I could look at this and look at your beautiful family and honor you all in the process that you went through.

[00:32:13] But then I kept praying for you and I have continued to pray for you so that if I fast forward now, go all the way to 2023, I mean, 2024. And here I have praying for Penner's kids that they won't get ALS.

[00:32:32] So that's been my prayer for you and for your family. Just this prayer of protection over you. And Jonathan, I love you. I think you're just one of the most amazing human beings that I know.

[00:32:45] So it's an honor to know you and an honor to have been part of the process. So many blessings, sweet friend. Love you. I'll have to reach out to her. That was very beautiful. Thank you. Yeah. What an incredible testimonial.

[00:33:04] Incredible. And she said, I mean, that's, you know, I'm sort of speechless. And she said it. She didn't know why we became quite so close. She just reached out to me and we really, really connected in a beautiful way that she continues to pray for me

[00:33:23] and my family is moving beyond words. It's extraordinary. People are extraordinary. They are absolutely amazing. And Jonathan, this wonderful survivor family that we have, I mean, you and Tina never even played together. I think there's such a bond, even when I had never met you

[00:33:42] and reached out to you to this fun chat with us. I mean, it's just a connection we all have. And I pretty much think I can say I think we'd all be there for each other, no matter what. And I think that is a beautiful, awesome, amazing thing.

[00:33:57] Thank you for reaching out to me. And of course, I said, you know, yes, I'd be happy to talk with you and meet you. And Rob, we have things we can talk about. I'm anticipating you imitating me any moment. But the the the

[00:34:17] connection that we have is sort of amazing, isn't it? Right. This little club, maybe not so little anymore of folks who have had this experience that you can describe and people have seen it. But, you know, again, three days or two days now or three days

[00:34:39] get condensed into forty five, fifty minutes. And what's missing always in the show, though, there's always a little hint here and there of, you know, the drama is the actual life and experience that we have. And that is where these kind of bonds happen.

[00:34:55] You know, it's this almost foxhole mentality of living through the most high impact adrenalized experience that maybe I've ever had, certainly before is dealing with Stacy's ALS and being in that ICU of a house that I lived in with her.

[00:35:15] It was the most intense, prolonged experience I'd ever had. Hey, Rob, go ahead and play the other winner for us so we can get that. Got another message here for you, Penner. OK. All right. Let's see if we get this one for you

[00:35:36] here on the on the fly as I bring things up. OK, all right. Hang in there. Here we go. And. Check this out. Here is what can you say about Jonathan Penner other than he is an amazing Mike Holloway?

[00:35:52] I've loved Jonathan since the first time that I met him, he came out for a survivor watching party that we had out in L.A.. We got to watch our season 30 with Jonathan and a bunch of other survivors. But we developed a unique and fun relationship.

[00:36:07] He's had us up to his house to do survivor watching parties. He's also had me and my wife and him and his wife, Stacey, go out for some lunches and some breakfasts. And he's just always been just such a great inspirational person to me.

[00:36:25] And he's always had open arms and loved me. You know, like I was just one of his other kids. And yeah, I'm really excited that you're having Jonathan on with talking with T-Bird and hey, Jonathan, love you, buddy.

[00:36:41] Next time I'm out in L.A., my treat for lunch. Talk to you soon. Bye. OK, thanks, pal. Wow. Sweet. He's got to come to Connecticut, then he can buy me lunch. I love that. How sweet was that? Thank you, guys. I don't know.

[00:36:55] Those are the two people that would have nice things to say about me. It's so great that you have. Yeah, it didn't take. It wasn't hard to find two people. Yeah, nice things about you, Jonathan. So T-Bird, how did you know about these special relationships

[00:37:08] that these survivor players had with Penner? Because I wouldn't have guessed, you know, that Penner was particularly close with either of those two people. Well, I did my research. Wow. But Rob is a private investigator.

[00:37:20] So I sent these clips to Sam and Sam is his is Rob's right hand, left hand man. And he's like, did he play with him? How does he know them? I'm like, play the clips. Just say I'm just play clips.

[00:37:31] Yeah. So so Jonathan, do you know that Survivor now? Let T-Bird cook, Sam. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Hey, Jonathan, Survivor's only 26 days now. Did you know that? I knew it was shorter. Why? Why did they make it shorter?

[00:37:48] So I would I think that what happened was that they had some production challenges because of COVID. They had to do a 14 day quarantine way back when they would fly people out to Fiji. And so, OK, well, now you have to OK, 14 days.

[00:38:05] That's that. Then then we'll know if you have COVID or not. And so I think that they sort of were working off of that. And I think that they said, oh, no, this is like the new Coke. This is it. Twenty six days.

[00:38:15] And so they ended up, you know, sticking with it. And is it better? You guys watch the show, obviously, is it can you can you put yourself out on a limb and say it's it's different? Tell me about it. It's definitely different.

[00:38:30] I think that as a viewer, I feel like it's not necessarily like that different in the end product. Like if they'd like labeled the day, if they didn't tell anybody it was 26 days and they just called like day they called day 12, day 17 at home.

[00:38:48] I don't think you would know. But I do think in terms of like the impact on the players, I think it is meaningful. I feel like that everybody is just like at a much faster pace

[00:39:01] and for better and for worse than I feel like that people are like, hey, it's day 14. I haven't made a big move yet. How am I going to win the game? And so people are a little bit like overly aggressive because they really feel

[00:39:12] like the ticking clock of, hey, I might get to the end. I didn't do anything yet. So I need to really be like in a much more faster pace. And I think there's been some other players that have talked about how,

[00:39:23] you know, a lot of the drama around Survivor comes on the days when you have nothing to do. Exactly. You really like get into the, you know, the like real personality conflicts come up like when you have

[00:39:38] you sit around the fire and stare at the same people for 12 straight hours. Yeah. There's nothing else to do except mix it up. Some people can't bear the quiet. Some people can't. Anyway, so so they're going to stick with this.

[00:39:52] Obviously, they feel that this works and they're they're in Fiji. There's no more food to be found. They have to give everyone food, I'm assuming. Right. They actually make a big point of that. They don't give them any food to make it the 26 days feel more like 39 days.

[00:40:12] I got it. That's funny. OK. All right. I mean, I guess I'll check it out. I don't know. Of course I will. I mean, we're all talking about Survivor 50 or whatever. Or no one has approached me about anything from production or other players.

[00:40:28] I don't know what that means. Probably nothing. I have you guys talk to people about it. I mean, what's the word? Yeah. So that they announced to survive 50, but I don't think that production has made any phone call. I think it's still a little early.

[00:40:43] I think they're still in the process of filming Survivor 48. And I think that probably later on this year, I think they'll start reaching out to people and asking about their availability. As far as the other players are concerned. Yeah, I haven't heard too much from other people

[00:40:58] who want to make an alliance with me either, Penner, but I know. OK, the three of us. Good. Yeah. Publicly. Yeah. The three of us are out there, folks. You can bet that we are working together. Yeah. No matter what we say on the beach,

[00:41:13] that how much we can't stand each other or we would never. We're doing it right now. This is this is the. There it is right there. I would only write down Penner's name to win the million dollars. How about that?

[00:41:28] What do you think a great theme would be for season 50? Well, I mean, it's all returning players, right? I think they should have a ton of people like squid game size. It's four hundred fifty six survivors. They could do it. A hundred survivors.

[00:41:49] And then and then in the first minute you eliminate 50 percent of. Wow. So you can ever we can all wave and then the game actually begins. That way we can all have a shot at some insane challenge.

[00:42:03] We all have to jump off a boat and swim and the first 50 to get there. And then the next day they eliminate 25 more. And then the next day they and I don't know. That's that's the first thing that comes to my mind. Really cutthroat survivor.

[00:42:18] But you can have everybody that you've ever wanted to see play again. Gets gets out. It'll be costly for CBS, but I think it's a groovy idea. What do you guys think? They should all get to sleep there for one night. Right. Everybody's in the first episode.

[00:42:33] Big puppy puddle. A hundred of us in a puddle on the beach. You win, T-Bird. I mean, absolutely. Yeah. So look, I like Jonathan. I like this alliance that we've got here, the three of us. Can we get you to tone it down with props a little?

[00:42:49] Because I'd rather you not be aggravating him because that might affect our game. Right, Rob? You're worried Petter's going to mix it up and antagonize. I know. I think he likes the heat. I think Jeff likes it. Yeah, probes likes it.

[00:43:03] And the truth is that I only really mix it up with him when I'm with my when my back is against the wall and he's giving me shit. And I just got frustrated because I was frustrated with myself.

[00:43:15] Yeah, it's a penner screwing up and I'd be like, F off. Come on, really? I'm trying to win a million bucks here when I was doing great. He didn't have to give me a hard time and I didn't give him a hard time.

[00:43:27] You know, that's how it always is. He knows how to push your buttons. Yeah, he tried to. There were a couple of there were a couple of tribals when I seemed to be playing pretty well. This was certainly in the in the Philippines

[00:43:42] when he was trying to get me to to give him a little bit more at tribal. And I was like, I'm probes. I'm doing OK. I'm trying to win a million bucks.

[00:43:51] You are not going to get me to diss on these people or to get pissed off at you. It's not worth it. Well, Penner, he came back from there was a year where there was no survivor because of covid.

[00:44:01] So they didn't film any survivor for a whole year. And they came back and Jeff like really was trying a lot of new stuff. And he broke the fourth wall and he was talking to the people at home

[00:44:10] and he said, I'm going to be like a new he was. He was a little bit more like a, you know, touchy, feely, grandfatherly figure with with the contestants and was like everything was about being supportive. And he didn't have a crossword for anybody.

[00:44:28] But in the last couple of years, really specifically in the last year, he has returned to form and has talked about bringing back spicy Jeff. Good. Well, I mean, because he is a spicy guy. Yeah, we know.

[00:44:44] I mean, the guy swears like a sailor when he's not on. He does. I mean, he really does. So does Mark Burnett. We know they love to swear. I don't know. I guess I do, too. So so he's like that. So does T-Bird also, by the way.

[00:44:59] Right, T-Bird? Yeah. He in German, multi gazillionaire, right? He's worth more than anybody in the in the entire world. He's cryogenically frozen so that he has not aged a day. He hasn't put on a pound. He's as big. He's as big as this.

[00:45:17] OK, I don't know how he does it. I guess he just works out all the time and has a chef create macrobiotic meals for more power to him. So he's out there. He's having fun. Why shouldn't he mix it up?

[00:45:28] He's going to give us a, you know, a hard. He's like, do you guys realize what you've got? He tried to get artist Sylvester to hit him. I mean, he would say anything to get these people upset. And sometimes they did because because

[00:45:40] they wanted to be on TV, you know, and Jeff Probst pisses you off. And a lot of folks don't have the social skills to not get pissed off. I'd learned enough to say, OK, at this point, I don't need to get into it with you.

[00:45:53] But there were many times when I did not know well enough and I just told him to shut the fuck up because he was he was upsetting me. He was. He was a. Jonathan, give me one word to describe Jeff Probst. Spicy. Ageless. Yeah. That's true.

[00:46:15] OK, well, with the talk of Survivor 50, have you given any thought to whether you would don the fedora one more time? Sure. I mean. Sure, I would, of course I would. Whether I could. Yeah. Whether I could get into shape or I mean, really get into shape.

[00:46:36] Right. I think I'm in, you know, for a 62 year old guy, I'm in pretty good shape. OK, pretty good shape. But I know how hard it is that they're going to get my ass kicked out. And also, I'm less tolerant in some ways.

[00:46:50] I'm more tolerant in many ways. But I'm also like less tolerant of bullshit. So it might be a great season for me, but I'm not as fast, not as strong. Would I do it? Yeah, sure. If I if I felt I could get into shape, I'd absolutely.

[00:47:08] Wait, when you say you're less tolerant of bullshit from the other contestants. People are like not giving you a straight answer. Yeah. Yeah, I just I mean, this has been the case. I've always said this, that survivor what would make survivor interesting to me

[00:47:28] is that, yeah, the physical challenges and the beautiful locale, whatever. But it's that you're out there having to work with, tolerate, survive with people you would walk away from in any other situation or you would never cross paths with.

[00:47:45] Now, one of the beautiful things is that Tina Wesson and I are really good friends. Mike Holloway and I are friends. These are folks that I wouldn't have met in other circumstances. So that's the beautiful side of it. You'll want and I are really, really close friends.

[00:48:00] But there are a lot of other folks who are out there who are basically they cast me and them because they knew that we would piss each other off and be at be at each other with machetes.

[00:48:12] And, you know, at this point in my life as a 62 year old guy, I don't have the time or the patience for folks like that. I just don't. And I would tell them to their face to just F off, you know,

[00:48:23] which probably will be not good for my game. So I have to think about that. Rob, isn't it accurate to say now because Jonathan's time out being in shape? It doesn't a lot of the players now, it seems like in the new era

[00:48:38] aren't necessarily have been working out or even been outdoors before or camped or done any right. Right. I think this is still a mix. I would say that overall, like I think that probably the newer cast is not necessarily as physically as imposing as maybe a cast

[00:48:58] from like 10, 15 years ago. If you sort of looked at them side by side, I think that you might have like a few more meathead guys on the, you know, a season from 2007 as opposed to a season from, you know, 2024. Why is that? Why did that decision get made?

[00:49:21] That's a good question. So I think that they were probably casting more for, OK, we need our hot guys, we need our hot girls. And now Survivor, I think that really and you mentioned, Lynn, that Jeff and, you know, a different team has taken over the casting

[00:49:42] since Lynn's departure. And they're really looking for people who are, you know, first huge fans of Survivor that they wouldn't take somebody for better or for worse who, hey, there's, you know, I found this guy roller skating on the Santa Monica Pier. He looks interesting.

[00:50:02] Let's put him on the show, even if he hasn't seen the show. Now that they want people who they are like are vetted to be, you know, at least massive fans of Survivor, if not Survivor fanatics. Because they can be self-referential.

[00:50:21] That is the conversation on the beach is about Survivor, about strategy, about other players. I mean, I remember you talking about a roller skater. I played with a woman named Flicka, Flicka Flame, who was a roller derby queen. She'd never seen Survivor.

[00:50:36] She barely heard of it, you know, which would lead to some funny conversations between she and I. But. They wouldn't do that now, they you know, that's interesting. Maybe it made her too much, you know, cannon fodder because there was no way.

[00:50:52] I think that that's what they feel like, that they feel like that the audience, the people that are tuning in every week have seen all these seasons of Survivor. I mean, and Petter, the biggest thing that's or one of the biggest things

[00:51:02] that's that have changed is now all these seasons are available for streaming. So it would be unheard of for anybody who played with you to like, oh, I've I've watched nine seasons of Survivor in the last week to get ready for this.

[00:51:18] How how would that even you that even work? You did you what did you do? DVDs, bootleg DVDs, bootleg DVDs. Well, now but now it's all streaming and there's a whole generation of people that discovered Survivor during covid

[00:51:32] and have came in and like, oh, I started watching during covid and now I've watched 32 seasons and they come in. And so they sort of like all have this knowledge base where if somebody came in and who had never really seen the show before,

[00:51:45] they they would be very lost in terms of the game. And I think that the production feels like the show goes so fast. Maybe you could have one person that's like that. But if you had a lot of people like that, it would completely slow the thing down.

[00:51:57] And it is very self-referential in this past season. There were two people that they got together and it was a younger guy and a mom. And they said, hey, we're like the Malcolm and Denise. And then they showed like a clip to Malcolm and Denise.

[00:52:11] And you won't even believe how that ultimately wrapped up that Malcolm and Denise story. Not like the first Malcolm and Denise. Really? Yeah. Are we married with children? No, no, no, no. But imagine imagine if Malcolm got to the end

[00:52:27] and Denise did not vote for Malcolm to win the game. Oh, yeah. Denise wouldn't have. Denise was going to. Well, yeah, no, that's interesting. It is self-referent. The world is so self-referential. I mean, look, you know, honestly, you started this right around the time.

[00:52:45] What season did you start? It was heroes versus villains. OK, so that's 18, 20, 20. OK. Yeah. So, you know, in the in the seven years, eight years, nine years since then, you know, this has 14. My math is terrible. You know, you this has become a major thing.

[00:53:07] It's become your your career because and not only with Survivor, many other shows and you are the king of this thing that you're doing, which is amazing. I appreciate that. A big milestone for me was when you played in Philippines,

[00:53:21] because I feel like that Survivor was in a bit of a rut. And I feel like that you helped bring Survivor into a not the new era, but into a different era. Really? I do. Yeah.

[00:53:35] I think that that really that there had been a couple of stinkers in a row and Philippines was the first season that ended up being a set Survivor into a new course. I, I take full responsibility for the resurgence of Survivor. Single handedly. Yes. Did that. Thank you.

[00:53:59] You know, I mean, are we allowed to say the name Mike Scoopin at this point? Or is he like Voldemort? You can say whatever you want. OK. I would I will tell you that his popularity is really plummeted since you all played. Since that whole pedoph...

[00:54:22] No, I wasn't going to talk about it. I mean, I'm just thinking back on that season and it was in some ways really great. Right. I mean, Malcolm was there. Denise was there. And there was some nutty stuff that happened. But.

[00:54:38] It was Lisa Welchel, I think, who really was kind of the shining. Star there and Malcolm in a lot of ways. Well, one of the many stars in that season. Yeah. The one of the things, yeah, but you're returning players

[00:54:55] and then people who were brought back, you know, the thing about Lynn Spillman and I don't know, you can talk about this new era of casting. There were. Stars. Yeah. I mean, Donald Trump and we're not going to get political is a star, right?

[00:55:14] They realized of all the of all the businessmen that they could pick for that show, The Apprentice. There were others who were more successful than him, maybe not not any others who were as quite as self-promoting, dare I say, narcissistic as him. But the man is a star.

[00:55:32] You know, reality TV, the beautiful thing is about it, that it recognizes and discovers that star quality, people that that shine through a lens or through a screen. And, you know, Lisa Welchel certainly has that that extraordinary quality. Malcolm, you know, I think. Yeah.

[00:55:54] It was interesting that you didn't recognize Jeff Kent till after the season, but you recognized Lisa Welchel. Funny story. You ready? We all traveled back from wherever there was the Philippines. Jeff Kent would not travel with us. Maybe I told you this. No, no.

[00:56:11] I thought you were going to say that it was that it was Stacey that recognized them at the airport. He did. He did. She did. Jeff Kent did not travel coach with us. Because because he traveled first class, how he arranged that,

[00:56:25] I don't know. He's sitting in first, you know, whatever. I get off the plane way after Jeff Kent, of course, because he's traveling first. I get off the plane. Stacey gives me this big hug and she says, Jeff Kent was on the plane.

[00:56:40] We're like, how the fuck do you know who Jeff Kent was? I knew him as a motorcycle dealer from Survivor. And, you know, I'm like, how do you she's like Jeff Kent, Jeff Kent. Now she was a big sportsman, big sports.

[00:56:54] I forget. Did did he do a reveal while you all were in the Philippines or that was something that. Yeah. Not to me, he never did. Never did. I think Dawson knew who he was. Yeah, that was in the show. That information to herself.

[00:57:11] Yeah. I don't think he played a very foolish game, but. Yeah, Jeff Kent and Stacey was like, you saw him play. You saw him hit a home run in Dodgers Stadium. Son of a bitch. Yeah. There was one moment when we had there was a challenge.

[00:57:30] It was like a skittle ball challenge, you know, like a ball on a rope and you got to swing it over or something. And he's like, you know, I'll do that part. It was you do this thing, you do this thing, you do this.

[00:57:41] And he's like, I'll take that part. And I'm like, you know, I was a little unsure. I'm like, yeah, you're good with you're good with balls. And he's like, yeah, I'm yeah, I think I can do that. Yeah. All right.

[00:57:52] Yeah. He told us he was a motorcycle dealer. Mm hmm. Who had a big spread in Texas for for for hunting. OK, closed nature preserve for hunters. And he was and he was a Mormon.

[00:58:12] Which I didn't care about, but, you know, he would sort of go off and he I know he was a strange cat, you know, he was so comfortable at. Jonathan, I'm going to jump over here to a Tina Wesson question since we had her on top of it.

[00:58:25] Have you gotten any tattoos since Survivor after Survivor to represent anything you went through during your three seasons? No. OK. All right. There's that. All right. Now here's a hypothetical. Rob, just let me go with it. No. All right. So you get in a bit of some trouble.

[00:58:43] Maybe you stole a chicken or something. Just having, you know, having some fun with your friends or whatever. You're arrested. You've got to call somebody to get you out. Bail you out. Wow. Are you going to call Flicka? Parvati. Or Candace?

[00:59:01] So so the question is not who would you call if you got arrested, that you are giving him three choices of who? Yes. They say you could call one person. OK. Is the only three available to him? Flicka, Parvati or Candace?

[00:59:15] Who are you going to call that you think will come and get you? You know the answer. You know what I'm going to say, right? I think I have a good. I really don't. I have a really good guess. The answer would be. Yeah. Would be you? Candace?

[00:59:30] Candace. All right. OK, look, Candace is not available, but Abby Maria and Sari are. So who are you going to call? Abby Maria? Sari. All right. All right then. There it is. OK. Do you have relationships with these people? You've had such crazy fun

[00:59:52] relationships with on the show. Have you stayed in touch with any of them? In touch? No. Would would I be happy to to talk with them, see them? Yes, I have seen Sari. I've certainly seen Parvati in passing. Flicka I have not seen.

[01:00:11] Candace I have not seen, although we were in touch a little bit after the show. The reason that I picked Candace is, you know, Candace is a doctor. Yeah. We married with three kids as a pillar of society.

[01:00:26] And she'd be the one who would help me get the hell out of jail. Parvati is probably the most famous of the three and would probably figure out a way to help me get out of jail. But Candace would absolutely be the be the cult.

[01:00:40] Yeah, I think that's the right answer. Yeah. So if you had to call one of the three of them, call Candace. Call Candace. OK, so you know what is funny about Parvati? Something that you had said on the show, you said she was lazy and selfish.

[01:00:55] A million dollars would not help her in her life. It would help. It would screw her life up. Wow. Was I right or wrong? Has she has she had a good she won a million dollars, ultimately, in a season that we can talk about that season

[01:01:08] because she's going to be the first to go. Fair play hadn't screwed up. She would have gone. Well, her whole life would have been different. Hold up a teeper. When did he say? Did he say that in Cook Islands? Oh, yeah, I said in Cook Island.

[01:01:21] Yeah, it's actually. Yeah, I don't think I think she's done pretty well. Rob, yeah, I know. I would not say I would not say that the million dollars is would screw her life up. You know, he's also talking about like a younger version of Parvati before,

[01:01:36] you know, like a 22 year old version of Parvati. Yeah, I think what I was saying, I wouldn't have done so great with a million dollars when I was 24 years old. Yeah, I guess what I was saying is that she it's not you know,

[01:01:48] if she won a million dollars, she wouldn't know what to do with it. It wasn't going to help her life at that point. I think as a I mean, she's now got to be 40 years old and she's gay. Right. Yeah. Played in 20 years ago.

[01:01:59] OK, she's a grown ass woman. She's got a kid. She's had businesses. She's done a lot of reality TV and it is a pretty famous person. I think she played the traders. Yeah, so we did, too. Yeah, so we did, too. So so she's doing great.

[01:02:15] And and I really hope I only wish her well. I have no I've no ill will towards Parvati. Good, good honor. She did great. I mean, obviously she's a brilliant person. Talk about a star. Talk about someone who, you know, really has star extraordinary star quality.

[01:02:32] Yeah, I think she does. Now, Parvati and Sari both did the traders. And wouldn't you be a great fit on the traders? Yes. I've been told that I have not watched the traders stupidly or smartly, but I haven't seen it.

[01:02:49] So I would be that guy who is out there, you know, walking around with my ass in my hand waiting for it, you know, given because I had no idea what the game was, whereas everyone else would be much. No, it's not that fancy or strategic.

[01:03:02] You could you could pick it up and it would be so great because one, you know, you would I think you would be very fun to have on the show. It's sort of like there's a little bit of like a horror.

[01:03:14] You know, I think you would really enjoy the company of Alan Cumming, who's the host of the show. So it takes place in a Scottish castle. Trip to Scotland. Right. And there's that. I do it. Sure. I mean, I like games like that.

[01:03:30] We play in my house. We play that game werewolf. Yeah, it's the same thing. Venge the seasons. You're going to love it. I love it. You're going to love it. OK. So Rob, play that last one for us. She's so much fun.

[01:03:44] And I think it's so interesting that he's got these relationships with people he hadn't played with. It speaks volumes for you, Jonathan. OK. All right. I've got another another clip for you. Let me just go ahead and bring it up here. And how about this one?

[01:04:03] That's me. OK. And let's bring it. Bring in here's Shireen. Jonathan. Hi. You know, you and I have a special bond that a lot of people probably don't realize, which is that you and I were both voted out by Abby Maria.

[01:04:20] Uh huh. You actually had a rough go of it in your survivor journey. You were on actual survivor race wars. And then after that, you were on one of the best seasons ever. Survivor Micronesia only fans versus favorites. But you had an unfortunate ending there.

[01:04:36] And I didn't think that could be topped. But then on your third season, you come back, you almost win only to be voted out by somebody who turned out to be a child actor. To me, you're so much more than just the sassy man

[01:04:54] who talked shit to Jeff Probst. You are also Stacey's husband. She meant the world to me. You guys healed me in so many ways, and you made me love survivor again. And I think about you all the time. I hope we can hang out soon and catch up.

[01:05:10] Love you. Wow. So sweet. We hung out in San Francisco and had a great time together. What a cool lady. And obviously funny as hell. Yeah. It's like a roast. Yeah. Well, I love that she said a child. Yes. Yes. Yeah. I got that. Yeah.

[01:05:32] Abby Maria, I have no ill will or anything you'll to say about her. How's she doing? What's she? I think she's doing well. Yeah. Shireen is awesome. Right. Another brilliant person. And, you know, not too smart, but sassy as hell.

[01:05:47] I mean, not too smart for her own good is what I'm trying to say. She is smart. Not. I said it's not too smart. That's not what I meant. But I think that, you know, she was considered sort of threatening and a little weird out there.

[01:06:01] Right. Really does see the world very differently than many, many people, at least at the time that she was playing. Maybe what you're saying is it's like the revenge of the nerds that the that the beefcake guys. I think that that's been thrown about a little bit where,

[01:06:17] you know, Survivor was, you know, a little bit of like, OK, I'm going to be a survivor. I'm going to be a survivor. Survivor was, you know, a little bit of like, OK, you know, sort of like the macho guys

[01:06:29] kind of ruled the roost on a lot of, you know, survivor and reality TV. And it is not exactly the same, I think, in the interest of making a more fair playing field. Well, it's a John Cochranification of of the game, right?

[01:06:46] Yeah. I've never heard it put exactly that way, but I think that that's part of it. Yeah. Interesting. How's he doing? What's what's going on? No, I seem, you know, probably fine. Yeah, he was very close to Stacey when I was playing in the Philippines.

[01:07:02] They became very, very, very close friends. It's interesting. Mm hmm. Anyway, that was very sweet. Thank you, guys. I don't know how the hell you did that, but I really appreciated that. That was really, really kind to see that. Jonathan, doesn't look beautiful

[01:07:21] when she sent me the the met the video. I'm like, oh my gosh, looks fantastic. Yeah, she really beautiful. Yeah, she's a beautiful lady. So cool. Yeah. And we're all getting a little bit older. I mean, you know, look at me. I look like a wizened old guy.

[01:07:38] And and because it's been 18 years, that's the one thing about TV unforgiving is, you know, you don't age. You see the seasons again. You're like, hell, was I ever that skinny? You know, but I'm you keep saying old and I keep correcting you to mature.

[01:07:56] I am mature. Yes. No, I'm not a mature, but I am old. I'm no more mature than I ever was. My my girlfriend keeps telling me that, you know, that that I'm forever young, youthful, child, child, childlike in a good way.

[01:08:17] Jonathan, tell me about your girlfriend and tell me how you met her. I met her online. There was a dating app called the Locks Club L.O.X. The Locks Club for Jews and people who want to sleep with them, basically.

[01:08:34] Oh, OK. I mean, basically, I mean, right. It's like, you know, I wasn't looking for a Jewish dating site. But the reason that I was attracted to it was this was still during COVID. They were having some live get togethers.

[01:08:50] You know, members of the Locks Club could actually have in-person meetings. So I signed up for it and she and I met online. She's in the same business. She's a movie and TV producer. And we have been together. Did she know you from Survivor?

[01:09:09] No. When you first she didn't know anything about it. Has she watched them? Did she binge them? No. OK. Any interest, any plans to do that? I don't really think so. I think I don't I don't know why. Yeah, she just doesn't.

[01:09:25] I mean, we've seen a little bit of it, I guess, because it's both me at my best and my worst. I don't know. She she likes some of the pictures. She's like, well, well, damn, you know, I said, yeah, I was 18 years ago and 50 pounds ago, man.

[01:09:42] You know, I still have my wife was happy and healthy and alive. There was a lot of my life was in a very different place. Yeah. Right. But and not like, oh, damn, you look great. Then you shabby old thing. Now she thinks I look OK.

[01:09:57] But but I'm just saying she really hasn't. She hasn't watched too much of it. I don't know. Doesn't interest her. Jonathan, I think you look great. Fantastic. Yeah. You seem like you're doing great, Penner. You look fabulous in the finger. Yeah. Oh, well, you know,

[01:10:17] that's a joke from an old movie called The Sunshine Boys with the finger. Oh, thank you, Jonathan, for being with us. Thank you so much. Yeah. Penner, that you're just one of the all time greats that I smile anytime I think about any of the moments

[01:10:38] that I've gotten to share with you. And nothing pisses me off more than when I see people giving giving you a hard time on Twitter and you give it back to them. But I'm like, these people better leave Penner alone. You know, the bear will bite.

[01:11:00] Thank you for those kind words. And thank you guys for inviting me. That was so much fun. And, you know, I'm so guys, I'm so glad to see you doing this fan service, but also making something fabulous that didn't exist before. It's really cool.

[01:11:14] Yeah, I just I can't tell you enough of just the I just think that you're just the ideal, the, you know, all of the the way that you were with Stacey and how you were so compassionate and there for her after everything that you both went through.

[01:11:34] And just what the incredible father that you are. I'm just I just I think you're the greatest and I can't tell you enough. I really I really mean that. What an incredibly kind thing to say. Yeah, I thank you Rob.

[01:11:51] Jonathan, we're not closing this out until I get the impersonation, Rob, of you doing Jonathan. OK, I'm going to ask Penner to impersonate me. But you're going to impersonate me. That was it. That was it. Yeah, I don't know. I figured out. Yeah.

[01:12:09] So yeah, you know that when Penner was on Philippines that I had wanted to have dinner with Penner after the season was over. And so Penner was nice enough to have me and Nicole over to his house. Penner and Stacey had us over.

[01:12:28] We had a very nice night that Penner, I believe, cooked with Penner, Penner pasta that I'm sure remember. And we had a nice night and we were talking about how, you know, we're trying to have a baby, but I'm a little concerned.

[01:12:42] I'm getting this, you know, I'm like working on this podcast thing, but it's kind of like I don't know if it's going to work. Like where I'm a little nervous to bring a baby into this world. And what Penner told me, and I always remember this, he said,

[01:12:58] listen, babies make bread. And you know, and he was right. Listen, babies make bread. That's not so bad. That's not terrible. It was good advice. You know, the advice was correct. And I knew that that would be true. Babies make bread, bring bread, babies.

[01:13:22] When you are godly and you create and you bring life into the universe. And have faith in the universe to provide, it will provide. I do believe that. And my imitation of you is, I don't know, probably not so good.

[01:13:39] You do a kind of a funny thing with your voice. It's not great. Not as good as your imitation to make noise. OK, well, Penner. I hope we do get to see you on Survivor and and if not, why not the White Lotus?

[01:13:56] Talk to Mike White, of course. Who needs White Lotus? I've got you guys doing this together. Don't say that. Make your own content. Fuck them. I'll see you in Berlin, my friend. OK, so nice meeting you. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

[01:14:14] Jonathan, love to Cooper and Ellis. Thank you. All right, T-Bird, there you have it. Jonathan Penner. Jonathan Penner. Yeah, I love Penner. He's I've been fortunate enough to meet him. You know, more than a handful of times and is just the greatest.

[01:14:32] I really think that what is so unique about him and why I think he is such an interesting person. I just I don't think he really, you know, he says what he is on his mind. He's real in the same way he dances in the car.

[01:14:50] I think he he's had something he wants to say and he's going to say it. And I don't think he's necessarily going to be super concerned if it's going to come out exactly the right way. And that it's something that I struggle with

[01:15:04] of being able to like say what I'm thinking. And people might be like, wait, don't you have a podcast? But no, it's come so effortlessly for Penner. And it seems like each time he played, he tried to tweak that each time he played.

[01:15:21] And it rubbed people the wrong way. And, you know, but that's why he's great on television. Yeah. Maybe we'll see him back. Yeah. How did you know about this, Tina and Mike and Shireen? So these are not even like I know we just had Tina on,

[01:15:39] but I feel like these are not necessarily people that you're like in regular contact with, right? No, they're not. But when I know we're going to have somebody on top of Tibor, I go back as far as I can.

[01:15:50] I didn't have to go back very far on this. On Dalton's Entertainment Weekly. You know, the quarantine questionnaire, I think is where I found it. It said, who are you close with? And it was with Mike Holloway and Tina Wesson and Shireen. You're like a detective, Tibor.

[01:16:07] And Ethan and I thought, wow, that's, you know, of course, I think the world of Mike Holloway and of Tina and what beautiful, what beautiful people they are. Their hearts and their souls. I mean, they just resonate that.

[01:16:24] So it doesn't surprise me that they're friends with with Penner at all. Yeah. All right. So, yeah. Well, the great Jonathan Penner, of course, Tibor, we've been really this has been a great run of talking with Tibor. And I have to give you the kudos again.

[01:16:42] Thank you, Rob. You know, it's so funny. I did want to mention this. So, you know, whenever I mentioned things to you, which I did the other day without saying, you know, some of the people that we're working on that I'm really excited about.

[01:16:54] Yeah. I don't know, Tibor. I had a little running in there. I mean, you have told me that several times before I started getting approval. So now I have to always go in and contact Rob and say, Rob, is this person OK?

[01:17:08] Yeah. Remember back when I got Rob Sabachnik? Yeah. Yes. Yes. You're like, I don't know, Tibor. We had a kind of. So listen, Rob, it's hard for me to clean up your messes so I can get these people on. I'm just saying, help me out.

[01:17:20] Hey, look, help you out with what? Cleaning up your messes. Not making people mad. Tibor, I do what I do. I can't help it if survivors get mad at me. Well, you just said, like you said, you can't help. Sometimes you say things.

[01:17:34] But another good example, because we actually mentioned the White Lotus. I've been trying to get Mike White, but apparently something happened. I didn't even do anything. Nothing to do with me. It had nothing to do with me, but I'm just saying. Yeah.

[01:17:50] All right, well, I wish I could have that one back, but you know, what are you going to do? I'm not giving up on him. I'll keep trying. But one of them that you weren't sure about, I think we've gotten. I think we're getting a little bit.

[01:18:00] Maybe they're going to come. Yeah, maybe come on and yell at me. I don't know. But we'll see. All right. They're sassy. They're sassy. So they could. Yeah, Tibor. All right. Where can people keep up with you? At Tibor Cooper. All right, Tibor. Keep up the great work.

[01:18:13] Be sure to check out everything else. Talking with Tibor, if you ever missed any, got so many great interviews with all of these wonderful survivor people. You can go to Robinswebsite.com slash Tibord feed to listen to all the old episodes. Take care of a good one. Bye.

[01:18:29] Bye.