Survivor 51 Cast Preview Part 2

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[00:01:20] Select live college football games are now on Disney+. It's going to be wild! A limited sampling of content from ESPN is now available to all Disney Plus subscribers. Upgrade to a plan that includes ESPN to access the full ESPN on Disney Plus experience. Terms apply. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects.

[00:01:48] And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files, and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cesternino.

[00:02:16] We're back to talk about seven more people that you're going to see in Survivor 51. There's no preseason interviews. This is all we have. We've sent Mike Bloom into the abyss to go discover everything he can about the people we will watch on Survivor 51. And he is back to talk about seven more of them, so give it up for Mike Bloom! Yes, I made my way back from the upside down, Rob.

[00:02:43] I only ingested slightly more toxic particles than I do in my normal day-to-day, but Rob, I don't think you're ready for this jelly, or Eric, or Jenna, or Linnea, or Kilby, or Kristen, or Lewis, because that's who we're talking about in part two of our cast previews. Yeah, and we were talking about it beforehand. Great response to part one. People are really counting on you, Mike. Tell us who these people are. We have drafts to do. Listen, and this is sort of like the Kingdom of the Blind.

[00:03:11] The one-eyed man is king right now. And I'm feeling like my full Rox Roy self from that perspective, because I feel like I can barely see. But I'm very grateful for the response so far. I'm especially grateful to the people who have also sent me intel about some of these individuals. A lot of it is going to come into play in this particular group. Spill the tea! Because Rob, we have some people who are known for playing in ORGs. We have one person who will provide things for orgies and everything in between. Okay. All right.

[00:03:39] By the way, if you missed it over the weekend, we posted the Traders that we filmed over in RHAPCon, where Mike did a bang-up job impersonating an Emmy winner as that he went full Alan Cumming and did an incredible job hosting the Traders RHAP. I mean, thank you so much. That was an immense amount of fun. No spoilers, but an absolutely incredible night. Rob, you were a player. Yes! So people were looking to hopefully... A player!

[00:04:08] Yeah, hopefully Black Mamba style to go down the what-if path if you had lasted a little longer on Traders. Check that out. I mean, do you think, of course, Alan Cumming took home the win, his third win in a row at the Emmys? Do you think he got the RHAP bump a little bit at the deadline there? Yeah, well, I was out helping to campaign. So, you know, I'm sure every little bit helps, but that's not what we're here to talk about. Okay? Survivor is going... We're not talking about Traders, okay? Don't you worry.

[00:04:35] Yeah, Survivor is certainly going to get the Emmy for the upcoming year when they see these people from Survivor 51, no doubt. Yes, and I will say, you know, we talked last time about like the limited amount of marketing that has come out. Since our last podcast, they did put out something that officially confirms it is two tribes. We were talking last week about how that might work with 21 players. They find a sign that says, okay, you...

[00:05:03] One person immediately has to go on a journey. We don't know if Sylvia style, they're picking the tribes or if like... I'm not sure how that works. Like did one tribe automatically have like a floating person in between where if they got exiled, then they're fine. They just replace whoever leaves or they fill in for whoever leaves? Admittedly, I have not done a ton of research into this yet.

[00:05:26] It did seem like from the commercials and previews I saw that people are opening a bag to get their buff and then one person, I guess, does not have a buff or did one tribe have 11? Again, this is permanent uncertainty personified here in Survivor 51.

[00:05:47] Also, some eagle-eyed viewers or I guess, you know, eagle-eyed in terms of their right-clicking talents were able to figure out the names of the starting tribes at least. Yes. We have purple and yellow, which I feel like it's the first time since what, Samoa? Hmm. Then we've had purple and yellow starting tribes. I love the combination. Uh, but purple is the Savu tribe and yellow is the Toka tribe. So we're sticking with the two-syllable, four-name titles from the new era for Kingdom Come.

[00:06:17] Okay. All right. Listen, you can bring back anything from any time so that we're bringing that back here into the open era. All right. Seven people down from part one. We got seven people to go today. Are you ready to take us to our first person today? Yes. Let us get in session with a man who knows his way around some sessions. We're talking about a mental health counselor, Eric Maxoud.

[00:06:40] Eric is 34 years old and originally from Lincoln, Rhode Island and currently lives in Windsor Locks, Connecticut. And this is the guy, Rob, who you so lovingly admired for wanting to take a theme into his own hands, calling this season officially Survivor 50 fun. Survivor 50 fun. Okay. All right. So tell us a little bit about our first person that we're talking about here today.

[00:07:06] Yeah. So Eric talks a lot about how obviously his skills as a counselor, as a therapist could come in handy here. It is all about, and we talk about this all the time with the various therapists and counselors that have graced these beaches.

[00:07:19] The idea of bringing someone in who is a complete stranger and getting them into, and this sounds so exploitative, but I promise it's not a vulnerable place where they can open up to you or they can even reveal things to you that they would have never expected before they walked into this conversation. And that is something that obviously has an immediate use in a game like Survivor.

[00:07:43] But I think also Eric is an incredibly empathetic individual as well. And so I think the other edge of that sword is the ability to, you know, sympathize and help grab onto people's stories, you know, get to really reason with them on a humanistic basis makes it a little tougher when you then have to cut their dreams in pursuit of your own.

[00:08:09] Do we have a good precedent for anybody who worked in mental health who's done exceedingly well? I feel like a lot of the people have incredible EQ. What about professionally? Well, I mean, we've got someone like Denise, a therapist, technically speaking, is the winner. I think we had Tori from season 42 was a therapist at the time. I think these are good skills to have in general.

[00:08:33] Again, it's just that ability to be able to get onto the level of the person you're talking with and make them feel comfortable enough. You know, make them feel like you're with them enough for them to feel comfortable enough to disclose some information. Yeah. What do you think about this pose that Eric's got? At first I thought he was at like prayer hands, but I think he's like doing a little bit of like conniving. Yeah. I mean, the sweater is really what's drawing me, Rob.

[00:09:01] It's very Fajian Freddy Krueger. Yeah, I was going to say it's giving Freddy Krueger. I guess he is in prime time, so it only makes sense. But I'm a little nervous about how much of a nightmare this game might be for him, let alone the other people that he's going to, you know, get in their sleep. Mm hmm. OK. So Eric has a very interesting, multifaceted background. He's a big theater guy, Rob. When he's asked, what's one life experience you feel has prepared you for the game?

[00:09:31] He says being involved in community theater has definitely prepared me for Survivor. In each show I'm in, I'm thrown into a new group of people that are all different ages, backgrounds and skill sets. Then he talks about, you know, being able to form these bonds to cooperate as a team on stage and hopefully build bonds off stage as well. And actually, there is a little bit of a connection here with another Survivor player, Rob, because when I put out the bat signal for any tidbits about these people, Jake O'Kane. Yes.

[00:09:59] Season 45 said that in 2018, he directed American Idiot, the musical in undergrad in college. And Eric was in the pit band. Well, I feel like it's kind of a prerequisite to be in the new era or the open era to have done some musical theater. I mean, I think people talk a lot about how the new era gives that theater kid energy. And listen, as a theater kid myself, I'm not necessarily disputing the claims. The question is, is the open era going to continue with that?

[00:10:24] Is that act two or are we pivoting away from the theater and back to the television medium itself? You know, saving it for the stage and only the stage. I guess we'll find out. But Eric also has a surprisingly athletic background. When asked, what is something we would never know from looking at you? He says, you probably couldn't guess that I'm trained in Muay Thai kickboxing. Whoa. And that I used to be a competitive swimmer. What do you say? Can he roll? I mean, we'll see who he's rolling with by the end of this.

[00:10:53] But he also said he's a competitive swimmer from age eight up until his senior year of college. I don't present as the athletic type. So it does throw some people off when they learn about my athletic history. Now, granted, he stopped swimming on a competitive level almost half of his life ago. But I feel like those are skills you don't necessarily let go of. Like riding a bike. I'm assuming so. Just of an aquatic nature. The wheels are your legs and arms. That's what they say, I think.

[00:11:20] So, Rob, he's able to make a comparison here that I'd be intrigued to see if you agree or disagree with. Which previous player do you identify with the most? He says, when I saw Dominic Abate on Ghost Island, it felt like I was looking into a mirror and seeing where I'll be in a few years. He's a charming, slightly sassy East Coast Italian American like me. And his game is definitely forming a strong bond with a pal that got him to the end and almost the win.

[00:11:47] He was also honest and upfront with his feelings, which I also plan on being with others being with others as I go far in the game. As a charming, more than slightly sassy East Coast Italian American yourself. Yeah. What is your take on this? Do you feel like that describes Dom aptly? Yeah, I think that that was the good about Dom's game. I think that maybe he was a little too much of...

[00:12:18] I'm trying to find the right way to say it. Like, I feel like that at times, like he was like a little too... Like, boy, this is not good podcasting. But, you know, I feel like that he just was a little set in his ways and a little too dug in, like around like the final six, the final seven, where he really wanted to... And I forget the exact story. Was it like that? Was he too hard on Donathan or Sebastian?

[00:12:48] Yeah, it was that final six tribal council, I think, where him and Donathan were going back and forth. And by comparison, you know, Wendell comes across, you know, far more empathetic to... And Wendell's like never the heavy... You know, he really, like, Wendell was able to be good cop to Dom's bad cop. And maybe, I think especially that comparison made him come off, you know, just one vote shy of being able to win. But lots of strengths in Dom's game.

[00:13:14] Yeah, and not to say there wasn't necessarily a line of demarcation, but it was interesting that when it came to that Ghost Island jury, the first five jurors all voted for Dominic and the last five jurors all voted for Wendell. And there might be something to, like, Dominic is a lovely person, but maybe the more time people spent out there with him, there's only so many cups of coffee he can drink to be able to negotiate with some of these personalities. Which, again, doesn't necessarily sound like Eric. No, I don't think so either.

[00:13:41] I think that if we were really going to revisit Survivor Ghost Island, I think that Dom's approach was probably, like, a little too old school, even for 36. Both, like, as a person and, like, from where the game had progressed. And so I think that maybe that was the right attitude to have maybe in Survivor 16, but maybe not Survivor 36. And that's what worries me a little bit about Eric. Even when he's asked, what will you value in an alliance partner?

[00:14:07] He replies, ultimately, I value an alliance mate that can also be a confidant and best friend in and out of the game. And he certainly is not here to make friends, Rob. But I do worry, of course, having a number one is great. But I could see a world where he vibes with someone really, really well and puts perhaps a bit too much trust in them, thinking, OK, this is going to be our Dom and Wendell. And maybe it becomes more of a Ricard and Shan situation.

[00:14:36] Well, it's hard to really solidify that bond in the 26-day game where the game is moving so fast. And obviously, this bond is happening before you get to day 26. So you're really going off of just a couple of days where that you have more of a time to have a trial by fire with a person before you're sort of all in with them in the middle of the game. The middle of the old game is the end of this game. That's a very trippy way to put it. But yes, exactly.

[00:15:02] That the way this game is very much contracted, it both simultaneously relies less and more on personal bonds. Less in that I feel like you're not going to have as many moments of downtime to really get to know these people on such an atomic level that it makes you create these lifelong bonds, even though they do exist.

[00:15:24] But because the game is so fluid and apparently anything goes from a twist perspective, it makes you almost more reliant on those human connections because it's like, I don't know who to trust and I don't know who wants to work with me. But I like this person. I'm going to work with this person because of that. Yeah. Let's talk about Eric's strength and kryptonite here. As a reminder, I got the chance to ask all of the contestants that.

[00:15:51] So Eric says his superpower is his ability to empathize with others and his high emotional intelligence. He says, I'm able to look at someone's face and read their body language and tell how they're feeling. I can see if they're feeling down, if they feel upset. It's something I do with my clients all the time. They can come into my office. They look so sullen. And I'm like, what's wrong? And they go, nothing. But I know there's something wrong. And I think that's going to help me out in this game tenfold because people are going to try to hide their feelings, hide what they're going through in their mind.

[00:16:19] And I can see right through that. His kryptonite, he said, my biggest weakness at times is definitely my mouth. Sometimes I definitely do more talking than I should listening, especially when I'm anxious or nervous. So I just got to be very mindful of what my fiance told me before I came out here. Shout out Gina DeVito. Again, love that name. She said, Eric, you've got to do more of this and less of this. And he mimes, you know, talking and silencing himself. And when you do, you will go far.

[00:16:49] And again, I think he has the ability to practice restraint. But I talked about this in the first part as well. One of the reasons why I'm a fan of this question is people's ability to acknowledge their own shortcomings. And the fact that Eric admits not only is he a talker, but he's a talker specifically when he's nervous. I feel like the game is all nerves at a certain point. Yeah. So we'll keep an eye on Eric could make for good confessionals. Oh, we want him talking to us. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:17] I mean, I think he could almost be his own producer. I haven't had people do their own impromptu confessionals of like, you just got blindsided tonight. How's that make you feel? And why and why do you think you were left out of the vote? I think, honestly, that could be a very fun role to play if you are serving as, again, that source of of warmth. That's certainly something that Ben Katzman had with people like Charlie and Kedzie that helped, you know, connect them until the final three.

[00:17:41] It also should be noted that Eric, I got a couple people saying that they played in some ORG. Oh, interesting. With him. Yeah. I know from what I have heard, he is a very big fan of the show. It's interesting because the way he vocalized it in his in his meet the cast video, it made it seem like he was watching as a kid. And then when the pandemic came around, he like got back into it and then became a really, really big fan. But I don't know if he's been involved in ORGs even recently. He's taken a deep, deep dive.

[00:18:11] And we'll certainly get into this in a major capacity very soon. In nowhere is it, you know, an exact apples to apples comparison of if you'll do well in the game. I do think there is at least a little something to even through a screen playing these games and getting to sort of exercise those survivor muscles, even if you're not necessarily doing any heavy lifting. No, it's something I had been thinking about recently having played in a LRG when we were at RehabCon.

[00:18:41] And, you know, I feel like that a big way that people prepare for a lot of the shows is that they watch a lot of the shows. But I think that actually participating in these games is actually far better practice than watching the shows because that when you actually are doing the thing, you know, you are actually learning where I think that the skill set of like being the best viewer of the show is not necessarily the same as playing the thing.

[00:19:10] And a person who has more experience doing but maybe not as much watching, I think that that's much better. I mean, this is like a very obvious thing that I'm saying, but I think it's much better practice than I know every single fact about the show. Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's book smarts and street smarts, right? It's like, oh, I've studied survivor. That's all well and good and can certainly help you from a certain perspective.

[00:19:33] But I think almost always the thing that's going to win out in terms of preseason prep is taking part in some version of these games. I think it's also a good acknowledgement of who you are as a player. I think we have had many people come into this game and talk with me about like, I'm going to play this way. And then it completely gets shot to sunshine.

[00:19:54] And one reason you may be able to have that self-reflection a little bit early is doing these types of things where maybe you realize like, oh, yeah, I'm actually more of a stone blood, cold blood killer than I thought I was, you know, before I applied for the show. Or, yeah, I guess I actually am too emotionally invested in people. So not to say like, hey, get out there and scout out your local LRG or ORGs. But like if you are looking to perhaps get some reps in before applying to these types of shows, you can certainly find worse outlets.

[00:20:24] Yeah. And I think that the recent history has also shown us where people like Rizzo and has played in a lot of different these. I'm sure there's many other examples of people who have been able to. Carolyn played in some. I know Teenie played in some. Yeah. You just sort of like know what to say when it's like, OK, all right. Somebody's asking you, who are you voting for? And then it's like, you know, like it's a little bit more just like, OK, I have these muscles that I have like prepared for as opposed to.

[00:20:54] All right. Well, wait now, what am I what I got to think of what to do next? Yeah, it's having a mind for the game, I think. And again, you can certainly build a mind for the game watching hundreds of people get the chance to play over a quarter of a century. But it's a completely different thing when your feet are in the proverbial sand and someone asks me, are you voting this way? And you have to lie your way out of a paper bag.

[00:21:15] So all that is to say, Eric intrigues me for a lot of reasons because he does have this background and he has the ability. You know, I think he's done some stuff with the mole as well. So I think I don't know if he was the mole, but I think there is some stuff about what he was mentioning before his superpower of like deduction, being able to read people, especially from a person to person perspective and see if they're lying or not. Poker face style. I think my only worry with Eric is if he is too much of an empath.

[00:21:44] And certainly empathy can be a superpower for sure. Just ask Kara from Australian Survivor. But I do think that I could see a spot where Eric opens his heart up a little too much and bleeds out in the process. Now, maybe he's more so calcified for this and has the mentality of like, nope, they're not my patients. They're people in the way of me making a million dollars.

[00:22:13] And I would absolutely love to see that. But no longer, you know, from, I guess, talking to people on the couch to getting up off the couch and playing. I'm very glad that Eric is here. It's his dream. We shall we shall see if it's everyone else's nightmare on Elm Street. How do you pronounce his last name? I did not ask. I said Maxoud. Maxoud Maxoud, I guess. Maxoud. Maxoud. Maxoud. Maxoud. Exactly. Exactly. And we'll see. Well, he does.

[00:22:43] He is training Muay Thai. So he's a bit of a karate kid himself. Yes. Okay. There you go. Mike. Disney Plus Hulu will make your day every day. Bluey for the kids. The all new Hulu original series Furious for the second they're down. Good Morning America for your morning. ESPN College Game Day for your Saturday. And Toy Story 5 for a cozy family movie night on Sunday. Make your day every day with Disney Plus Hulu.

[00:23:11] 18 and older with the Disney Plus Hulu bundle subscription. Access these titles via Disney Plus. Terms apply. And we're back. Streaming on Peacock. May I present to you the award winning staff of the Toledo Truth Teller. Slap me. Let's draw something loose. Ay, yes! I like that. The certified fresh series returns. Your boss. You always like this? Or is this just an, oh no, this is mad? Oysters, everybody! There's a certain satisfaction when you work with someone.

[00:23:41] Maybe we could be a family. You sadistic pig! The Paper. New season streaming September 9th only on Peacock. This show gives me a reason to laugh. This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files,

[00:24:07] and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides, and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans. Who's the second person that we're going to talk about today? All right. Let's go back to the A's here. We were on our A game last time. Hopefully we still are, but we're going to Angelica, but she will be more colloquially known as Jelly Lowblack. Okay. All right.

[00:24:37] Here she is. Jelly. So Jelly is 29 years old. She's originally from Garland, Texas and Midwest City, Oklahoma. Still a little confused about that. I don't know if she was like born in Texas and then immediately moved to Oklahoma. But either way, she's currently living in Bloomington, Indiana, and she's actually a sociology professor. I looked it up at the, I believe it's at Indiana University.

[00:24:59] So hopefully she'll have, much like hopefully Fernando Mendoza, a bombastic debut and be the number one pick to win. Oh, okay. Could have a Heisman winning year. Perhaps, perhaps. But she's not sticking her arm out anytime soon to keep people away because she is bringing them in fully. Because Jelly's obsession with sociology is partially inspired by Survivor. She's been watching since she was a kid.

[00:25:28] And she says that it was her first exposure to the sociological questions and experiments that would later lead to an entire career. I do feel like, Rob, there's been a lot of talk about the psychology of Survivor. There's a whole ass book about it. I think you're actually a chapter in it. Yeah, you know. I feel like nobody has written the sociology of Survivor yet. So Jelly, open your court. Well, it's a subject that I am always very interested to hear. And I would love to hear some of Jelly's work.

[00:25:57] But I don't always know if we get like a lot of like great findings from it. So please, like I'm all ears. Yeah, I do feel like sociology is one of the behavioral sciences that people don't talk a lot about. Like I'm speaking out of my ass. Surprise, surprise. Because I'm not sure exactly what ground it necessarily covers. You know, it's thought of as like the study of human society and social relationships and the structures that shape human behavior.

[00:26:26] And you have to kind of feel like is this psychology as well? Is this like a square rectangle thing? But the way that Jelly describes the stuff that she specializes in is Survivor to a T. Right? Jeff said this on the boat in the very first episode of the show. It's about people building a society together, determining the rules for those society and subsequently eliminating people from that society as well.

[00:26:51] And I think there's obviously a lot of discussion, especially as of late, as you know, we've gotten more diverse in our casting about like, okay, societal structures that exist outside of the game. What happens when they get brought inside of the game? How does privilege get enacted in the beaches of Survivor? A game that in theory, much like the tide in the sand, should wash away all that stuff from the outside world. I think it is legitimately gripping content.

[00:27:17] And one of the reasons why, in my opinion, this is one of the longest lasting reality shows because it shows, hey, all things being equal in theory, what do people do when they're forced to build their own society? And what things from who they are, where they're from come into effect no matter what the environment? I mean, there's a reason why the show has been such a mainstay for 26 now years of television.

[00:27:44] So they're obviously tapping into something that people are interested in. You brought this up last time, Rob. She does say in her Meet the Cast video that she introduces Survivor into her classes. I don't think we're going full Max Dawson here. You may have to check her feet for warts to confirm that. But I don't think she's teaching an entire class about Survivor. I would imagine more so it's the stuff that she teaches. She brings in Survivor as an example of what I was talking about briefly before. Okay.

[00:28:15] So Jelly talks about how the players she identifies with the most is Katora. And I could definitely see that. Obviously, Jelly is someone who talks a lot about her own identity and how that informs not only the place she has in society, but the work that she pursues.

[00:28:32] Actually, I believe that her research that she had done in her graduate studies, or maybe her PhD studies, examined how gendered racial socialization and anti-Black racialization shape identity, embodiment, and political engagement in Black, multiracial, multiethnic, and immigrant communities.

[00:28:51] Now, going back to the players that she names here, she says that the player she thinks she'll play the most like, not identify with, is Shan, quote, for better or worse. What do you make of that assessment? I mean, it's been five years since we've been talking Shan, which is wild to think about.

[00:29:10] Yeah, it's hard to say what's the for better or for worse part of Shan, but I think that Shan was somebody who was just super charismatic. And maybe not unlike Dee on Big Brother this summer, where we saw that she has the ability to create these really intense connections.

[00:29:33] And she was maybe even better than that, because it was like anybody that she wanted to, she had them feeling like that they were her number one. But at the same time, then also, she would be a little bit messy. She was a little bit, you know, wanting to try to remember exactly where things went wrong for Shan. But I think that certainly she got into it with Ricard over the extra vote of, you know. And the papaya.

[00:30:03] Yeah, of like, why won't you let me hold it? And so that there were certainly issues where she did not want to compromise, you know, for the greater good in terms of the keeping her profile lower. And then ultimately was identified as the biggest threat in the game. Yeah, I mean, I think I agree.

[00:30:28] That sort of is how I would parse out the pros and cons of Shan's game, is that she had this ability to sit you down and make you believe that she was with you to the end, no matter what. But I think the downside is that she could be, while simultaneously very surreptitious and smooth in some areas, very rough and open in other areas.

[00:30:54] Like, I even think about some of the stuff she was getting into with Deshawn at Tribal Council when they were in that alliance together. And so, and that ended up sort of being like the death by a thousand cuts, right, at the final eight when she does get cut. And it's like, okay, now you have this, this alliance, you know, this counter alliance where Xander's on the bottom. And then Heather and Erika are after her. And then Danny and Deshawn are not happy with her. And then Ricard just sort of hops on board to that. And then all of a sudden, the game flips on her.

[00:31:23] Again, I feel like if Jelly is acknowledging that part of herself, that's great. But the thing about Jelly, Rob, is even if you wipe it up, it still leaves this sticky residue. And that's really, really tough to scrub at the end of the day. I'm not doing a lot of Jelly scrubbing, but I could imagine. Well, listen, if you follow certain influencers, you can scrub yourself with a lot of Jelly and feel beautiful at the end of the day. She does admit that she is not outdoorsy. She does not like fish.

[00:31:51] Yeah, I don't think that's necessarily, as we've talked about before, unless we really are having a cast that leans fully into the camp life angle of things. I don't think that's necessarily going to put her out on a limb. We talked about someone like Devin, who was the exact same way. Let's talk about her superpower and kryptonite. Yeah, what is it? Jelly's superpower is, quote, my ability to get people to open up to me and knowing the right questions to ask. Okay.

[00:32:18] My biggest kryptonite is definitely my ego and need to be the center of attention. Hmm. Yeah, you don't want to be the center of attention. Certainly for a good portion of the game. Yeah. I mean, it's a reason why you would get cast on the show, but not a great reason to last long in the show. And that is definitely the biggest red flag for me is, again, not to say that, like, again, it's book smarts versus street smarts that Jelly has such an academic background.

[00:32:45] But she seems like a very sociable person, a person to, you know, who's able to get along with a lot of different individuals. And certainly it's studied up on a lot of different societal structures that I think she could acknowledge things that are happening around her. But if she is going to have an impulse to draw attention to herself, especially, again, if we are dealing with situations where we have tribes of 10, 9, 8 people,

[00:33:13] when early on you're just looking for any and all reason to have someone's name in your mouth, if you're causing yourself to be the name on everybody's lips, you know, it's the opposite of the Streisand effect. Not all news is good news. I'd like to know more about how she was the most comedic mascot at mascot camp. Yeah. So she was Weber the bear. I don't know if that's the if that's a mascot for a school or if that's a character she made up.

[00:33:43] That's her fursona. And she but she went to mascot camp and she won most comedic mascot. Honestly, Rob, that sort of feels like the the palme d'or like highest honor, you know, like I feel like aren't the isn't the point of mascots to be funny. So if you're the most comedic mascot. Yeah, I feel like you've won the entire thing. Pretty good. I mean, not all mascots are comedic, but that's pretty good. Like a Pagliacci mascot. I feel like mascots are supposed to be funny. Yeah.

[00:34:13] I think this was an original. An original character. Okay. OC from Jelly. Yeah. Weber the bear, much like Yogi Bear, Jelly Stone. Yes. Is that anything? We don't think it's about the TV show, the bear, right? I googled Weber the bear and that's the only thing that came up. I mean, if that's the case, I'm very surprised she won most comedic mascot. I know the bear is one of the best comedies. They say it's a comedy. I hear it's not very funny, but they say it's a comedy. Maybe the Emmy voters were the same that voted at this mascot camp.

[00:34:42] But regardless, I hope, I don't know, maybe we'll see some like fun stunts from Jelly if she's trying to, you know, keep everyone entertained on those long hours on the beach. Hmm. Okay. Oh, one more thing, actually. Because again, I do want to look into possible pairings here. Again, it's really tough with 21 people. We don't know what the tribes will be. But when asked, what would she value in an alliance partner? She does say, I want a ride or die who's not afraid to brainstorm and risk take creatively, of course.

[00:35:12] Someone less ego driven than myself. Apparently that's not saying a lot. With a good bit of sarcastic humor and YOLO energy, but loyal like no other. Yeah. So I think she is looking for someone who has a little bit of that like vibes vibe to her, not necessarily looking for like the brainiest among her. I think, you know, much like we talk about with a lot of people, they want to glom to people that they want to enjoy.

[00:35:38] The YOLO energy, again, concerns me a little bit. But I think we may find someone in this very group who embodies that. Yeah. I think if you're out here on Survivor, I think you already have YOLO energy. You would imagine so, especially again, in the wake of 50. I am actually really curious what the meta is for these players of like a returning season just happened. I know that the 49 contestants felt like they weren't necessarily playing for a spot on 50 until Jeff outright told them they were playing for a spot on 50.

[00:36:08] But do you think these people are like, they're not doing a returning season for years at this point? 41 barely got any representation. You know, the meta is like all sorts of screwed up in terms of what the timeline is, because I really felt like that coming out of Survivor 50, I felt like that the takeaway in terms of all things season 50 had to do with Rick Devins. And I thought that we really wanted to push the new players to have the Rick Devins philosophy of flip the coin.

[00:36:38] Just go for it. Jeff talks about the game is impossible. You're probably going to lose. Just YOLO. Make the biggest move. You don't know what's going to happen tomorrow. So just go for it. But the issue, and there are numerous. First off, in terms of us with the meta, like, are we, does anybody even remember Rick Devins, the Survivor player? That's for us. That's not so much for them. That's our person. That's our person. The players in Survivor 51, they haven't even seen the end of Survivor 50.

[00:37:07] The producers have. They know how it works. They're pushing them to something that maybe these players haven't even seen. So we're all over the place. Not to mention, I say this with love to Aubrey Brocko, the winning strategy was not to make the risk and flip the coin. It was lay low. Well, they're not going to tell them that part. Yeah, but it's more so lay low until that opportunity comes. And then you're able to cut those people who are making those big moves. I should also mention, I'm glad you mentioned the timing of this, because I did make a bit

[00:37:37] of a mistake with the timing last time, because I had said like, oh, yeah, Aaliyah started her own culinary company and Alexis struck it on her own firm after Survivor 51 filmed. I guess I've been doing too much time travel this summer, Rob, because I totally did not realize, and this is how long 2026 has felt, that they filmed earlier this year. So no, those two went independent before Survivor 51 played. There's nothing yet that indicates people made major life changes that would indicate they won a million dollars.

[00:38:07] It's not full. You know, what was I think it was a teacher Tommy like proposing to his fiance after season 39 film before it aired to indicate that maybe a chunk of change was coming his way. Nothing out of the sort as of yet. OK. All right. Mike, anything else on Jelly? Jelly. No, we can close the door on Jelly and open the door on Jenna door. OK. All right. Genevieve. Yes. Tell me about this Jenna. And if you're just listening to the podcast, that's two words, Jenna.

[00:38:37] And her last name is door. Jenna Door with a silent E, but she may not be silent in this game because she's originally from Perrysburg, Ohio, currently lives in Toledo, Ohio, 30 years old. And she is a wedding photographer. Wedding photographer. Wedding photographer. First wedding photographer since Randy. He was technically a videographer. I don't know. So I guess what's a what's a photo, if not just a steal from a video, you know? Sure.

[00:39:07] I don't know if that's going incredibly philosophical. But regardless, Jenna talks a lot in both her video and her bio about how her job enables her to be adaptable. Right? Come rain or come shine, she has to be there to capture people in what should hopefully be the best day of their lives and find the opportunity to personify that in a way afterwards that makes her clients happy.

[00:39:31] She also talks a lot on her website about how she sort of connects photography with poetry. A picture is a thousand words after all, and she likes to rhyme a lot of them. Okay. So in her photos? I mean, she doesn't, you know, join poetry with it. Yes. I mean, that'd be an incredible thing. That would get me to hire her as a wedding photographer. Like, hey, I'll give you a poem as well. Though, listen, we've had a handful of survivor poets.

[00:40:01] I think you're saying that she makes the photos rhyme. I was like, how does she do that? It's like George Lucas. Yeah. Mimic one another. So speaking of poetry, I mentioned this in our cast preview, but it bears repeating, not Weber the Bear. She says, why would you be the sole survivor? Back before I ever heard anything from Survivor, I wrote this little poem inspired by my dream to play. It says, I can't wait for you to look back at all these times you believed in it. And believed it was visible. But then I had an idea.

[00:40:30] What if I could give this poem to anyone who wants them? But in exchange, they have to tell me their dream. I give away 154 poems. I will be the sole survivor because I have an army of people who are believing in it with me. I'm playing for them. See, we thought Eric was Freddy Krueger trying to capture everybody's dreams. I say this with all due respect to Jenna. Does this feel like a bit of a duplicitous deal? Like she talked about the survivor closet.

[00:40:58] These people telling her their dream, being aware of like, OK, now you're bound to support me when I play a cutthroat game for a million dollars. Yeah, it does seem like a little bit like the plot of a horror movie. Also, how would they feel about them all getting the same poem? It doesn't feel very personalized. Yeah. Like you have to give me your individual dream. But in exchange, I BCC'd 154 on you on this one poem that I wrote. Incredibly profitable from her perspective.

[00:41:27] I admire the business ethic. She is enterprising. OK, 100 percent. Listen, she's entrepreneurial. She's, you know, her own business owner. So she talks a lot about the way she comes across as this sweet, bubbly, artistic girl. But she has this savvy, strategic side to her. And honestly, I see this. We talked about this a little bit with with Anna last week. And maybe there's a bit too many of these, you know, there could Highlander style that can only be one.

[00:41:57] But I do think there is something to her, you know, being described as sort of like the the artsy, floofy type of person that you don't necessarily, you know, you hear a lot about her poetry, not realizing you've reached the end of your final stanza in the game. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious to see, like in a big tribe, how much is an artistic person going to potentially stand out?

[00:42:25] Do we are we going back to sort of like a little bit of like the beach people in the shelter people of like sort of like, OK, who's here to sort of like put things together? And if you're a little bit more of a like artistic loner, does that maybe single you out a bit more? It depends, honestly, on which group she wants to go with, whether the bride side or the groom side when it comes to the camp dynamics, because I feel like also being a wedding photographer is a pretty physical job.

[00:42:53] I mean, you're carrying around all of those cameras. You're on your feet all day. So I wouldn't be surprised if obviously she has a great work ethic if, you know, she puts in some some bamboo hours before, you know, taking to the beach to take in all of the vistas. But I think this does makes her very flexible. And as she said, adaptable. I mean, to that point, when asked which previous player she identifies with the most, she says, I honestly hope to be a combo of Charlie and Kenzie, both players I look up to Kenzie for

[00:43:23] her social skills and ability to be everybody's buddy. Charlie for his intentional gameplay focused on keeping options open and letting himself be underestimated by others when really he had his finger on the pulse of the game. Hmm. Do you feel like that? I mean, obviously, I think Kenzie, we talked about her as a social player, even if that maybe underestimates what she was able to do. Do you feel like that was a good read on Charlie, though, that his game was all about keeping? I mean, I guess he did vocalize that he was all about options, right?

[00:43:51] Until those options ran out at a certain point. Yeah, I mean, he was pretty underestimated. I think that the players from Survivor 46, Q, I think in particular, talked about how they didn't realize how big of a threat Charlie was until they came home and they watched the show. I think they thought that he was just one of these people who wasn't really doing that much. And he was kind of in the middle of everything. Yeah. Which, again, we've talked about this a lot.

[00:44:17] It's great to have that perception for the majority of the game. But it's really tough to turn that boat around to hopefully, you know, a safer million dollar harbor. I mean, we just spoke with Andy, right, as part of our Operation Italy time trip. And one of the reasons why he made that move is because he wanted to sort of prep the cabin for landing in a manner of speaking on this flight and be like, I want people to know what I'm actually doing so that I don't have to get to day 26 and try to convince people,

[00:44:47] hey, I'm not the goat you thought I was for 25 days in this game. Just like we talk about timing with moves, I feel like timing with perceptions is an underrated part of the game. And so I could see a world where, again, Jenna is perhaps a little underrated that she's seen as somebody who is this bubbly, artistic girl. But if she's not taking a snapshot of herself as someone who is strategically savvy enough

[00:45:11] to be regarded as a survivor winner, they may look at it as black and white rather than full color. Well, that's sepia. Sepia. Yeah, it'll be just as brown, perhaps, her prospects of winning as sepia tone. Final thing, Rob, I'll say her superpower. You say sepia, not sepia? Yeah, I'd say sepia personally. Maybe people can. I hope people. Jenna, how do you say it? Yeah, actually, Jenna, you're the one that knows it the most.

[00:45:39] This is the whole gif and jif thing, right? Jenna doesn't work with gifs. She mostly works with JPEGs and PMGs. But let us know, Jenna, how we pronounce sepia and how we pronounce jif. Okay. One last thing. So Jenna's one of the rare people who said that her superpower and kryptonite is the same thing. Interesting. And it's actually something I spoke about with Eric. She says, my biggest superpower and my biggest kryptonite is my empathy. I'm a deep feeler.

[00:46:07] And I think that is such a strength in connecting with other people and can be such a weakness if you don't have a sense of playing your own game. So I think if I can keep that in check, it becomes a great strength. Okay. All right. We'll see how it goes. I mean, it's just like, sure sounds good. Yeah. I think Jenna is one of the bigger wild cards for me because again, she didn't get a lot of talk about her gameplay, even her challenge abilities.

[00:46:36] But I think she has such an interesting job that I think has a lot of skills conducive to it that if anything translates to the beach, she should be able to play it well, I think. Yeah. This is so hard. If I heard this person talk to you for 90 seconds, I feel like I would have so much more information than every single one of these essays that they have. Your words, not mine. Not help but heartily agree.

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[00:48:04] All right, Mike, let's go to whoever is here next. Let's talk about someone who was definitely wishing that he had the chance to talk with me out there. Yes, it is. The oft-talked-about Danny Kilby. Kilby, though, interestingly, one of the many things he's said since the cast dropped is that he has no idea where Danny came from. He has never been called Danny in his life. Okay, interesting.

[00:48:31] Yeah, I think a lot of people, and there are a lot of people who know him, know him more so as Daniel Kilby. They don't miss Kilby first and foremost, but the first name is Daniel rather than Danny. And hopefully, unlike his nickname, his game will not be as short. Yeah. Okay, well, I think this is somebody you must have a treasure trove of information about. Boy, howdy, do I. So Kilby is 30 years old, originally from Mount Forest, Ontario, Canada,

[00:48:58] currently lives in London, Ontario, Canada, and he is a game designer. I believe the name of the game company is Noodle Goose Games, if I'm recording correctly, that was founded by your friend and mine, Karen from Canada. Yeah. Well, shout out KFC. There we go. Exactly. And we'll see if his game is cooked by the end of 26 days. I haven't looked up exactly what it is, if it's video games or if it's board games.

[00:49:24] But regardless, Kilby is someone who is obsessed with these social strategy games. He claims in his video that he is one of the biggest survivor dorks to ever be on this beach. Rob, I feel like that would not be saying a lot before the turn of the decade. And now it really is. That is saying a lot. That's saying a lot. This is the equivalent of the most comedic mascot at Mascot Camp. You know, that's the creme de la creme. Yeah. Get him on Twitch. Let's see.

[00:49:51] I mean, I do feel like we're due for another survivor jeopardy of Kilby versus Brandon Donlan versus Omer. Mm-hmm. Maybe. I feel like that's sort of the triple crown of, like, survivor dorks, right, of the past five years. I think that Brandon would tell you that he does not know a ton of facts like that. And he does not necessarily—that's not necessarily his superpower. But we'll see.

[00:50:16] So, of course, Kilby, I think, is known by a lot of people in the online space because he's someone who has taken part in not only survivor games, but really games of any and all varieties. The first one that I'll bring up that I think he's maybe not primarily known for, but I guess most visibly known for is that he appeared in season two of the live-action version of Sequester. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, which Tori, after mentioned, from season 42 appeared in season three.

[00:50:46] So now this is our second Sequester alumni to appear, not counting the survivor-only games that happened. I actually watched a little bit of the season Kilby was on. Yeah, what do you watch it on, Mike? It's on YouTube. On YouTube. Listen, I would say it was not a long time, and maybe it wasn't necessarily a good time either, basically, to make a long story short. So Kilby's number one ally was taken out in one of these, like, big, shocking votes that JUDD Party Doherty from Big Brother orchestrated behind the scenes.

[00:51:15] And so this person then had to pick two people to face off in, like, a duel, like a challenge. Judge from Big Brother 15, he's one of the icons in the season? There were, listen, icons with the most lowercase i, but there were a bunch of, I feel like this is the season that had, like— He had on his shirt, I think it was Webber the Bear, right? Exactly. Fish and mouth. Though Jelly doesn't like fish, so maybe she would blanch at that point. But I think it had, like, Cindy with an S was in it.

[00:51:43] Hamza and Jesse from Big Brother Canada were in it. Fellow Canadian here in Kilby. Who's who? Exactly. I mean, that was quite the question we were asking when we saw the cast. But, so this person was tasked with picking two people to face off in an elimination challenge. And she erroneously thought that Kilby, her number one ally, had betrayed her.

[00:52:05] And so sent him into elimination with another sequester alum and another familiar face to shows around islands, Kim Matina from Deal or No Deal Island Season 1. Okay. I'm looking at the sequester Season 2 wiki. Yeah, so, again, a veritable Hall of Fame right there. Unfortunately, Kilby lost to Kim.

[00:52:30] I think they were doing, like, a house of cards, and everything just came folding and tumbling down for him. I think he finished, like, in 11th place and was the third person eliminated overall. Okay. So his LRG success is maybe not necessarily top tier, but I received so many stories about his ORG success. And it is much more palpable.

[00:52:56] I saw that he actually, him and Rizzo, you mentioned him before, were both in the same ORG space. Kilby obviously participated noticeably longer than Rizzo, but apparently the two of them knew each other. They know each other or know of each other. Let's see. I had someone write in, and I'll keep their identities anonymous for now unless they prefer to identify themselves, in which case I'll correct the record next time. They wrote,

[00:53:22] I hosted Kilby in his last online reality game before departing for Fiji where he won and played a persona the entire game. He played it under a persona named Chaz Money, who was this frat boyish gambler-esque character. The way he navigated the game was being OTT and was not expected to pull it around if he ever made it to an FTC. And he did, and he got the votes to win. Chaz Money. Chaz Money.

[00:53:50] Did he invent Riz God before the Riz God? I mean, I don't know if this was the same space that Riz was. Riz was like, I didn't realize we could do nicknames. Okay, let's do it. Bet. So this person goes on to say- That's what Chaz Money does. Exactly. He says, I'd like to, I'd say he definitely has the ability to blend in with multiple crowds of people and characters and is able to portray himself as a different person depending on who they're talking to.

[00:54:12] He's a gamer through and through, like if Rick Devins and Rizzo had a survivor baby, maybe with a bit more win equity. Rick Devins. Why is Rick Devins throwing his lot in- He has a family, all right? Okay, he's got 51 people. Yeah, he's gone full Richard Hatch and sperm domer to so many different carriers. You're no Jack or Juju. Come on. Lots of survivor children, I guess, of Rick. This is actually going against your point before. We're like, maybe there are a bunch of children of Rick Devins running around the island.

[00:54:42] Well, that's what Survivor, I think, wants the open era to be. You are all children of Rick Devins. Oh my God. Drew is like, sign me up. Exactly. Papa. And I took that literally. So, I got another person reaching out to me about particularly his work in Blood on the Clock Tower, which is my direct experience with him. I played in some games of BOTC with him. Of course, a very popular game. Look at you, Mike.

[00:55:08] I mean, listen, it was a very short-lived career, but I got to play a little bit with Kilby. This person obviously- You retired from Blood on the Clock Tower? In many instances, Rob, including that Traders game, I would much rather host from afar. And be a goofball in a bunch of costumes and actually participate in this thing. I love having the best seat in the house. But this person talked about how they played Blood on the Clock Tower with Kilby, which he is pretty active on. I played many games with him and we connected about being huge Survivor fans.

[00:55:38] As far as his personality, he's a very likable guy right off the bat. He has an energy that kind of just draws you to be his friend. He is pretty confident in his demeanor. As far as BOTC goes, he's extremely chaotic and an insanely good liar. I could see this potentially being problematic if people catch on and leading them to having issues trusting him. But yeah, he's a really cool dude. Mm-hmm. Okay. So that's the interesting thing about Kilby here.

[00:56:08] Is that I think, and part of this is due to the fact that we have a bigger awareness for him than I think anybody in this cast. Unless you're a Grey's Anatomy fan or a fan of the boys. But, so it seems like on the surface we're thinking like, okay, this guy is the brain, right? He talks up his puzzle prowess, Rob, to the point where in his Meet the Cast video, he said like, I might have to downplay it sometime so people don't see me as too big of a threat. He's a game designer.

[00:56:37] Surely he has, you know, a mind for the strategic over anything. But he describes himself as chaotic. He is someone who I think has that side of pandemonium to him. But I think it's this ability, and I think maybe honestly that Rick and Rizzo hybrid is a good comparison where like, he has this ability to stir up chaos, but has a method to the madness.

[00:57:01] Where he's sort of being personified as this rogue agent, this big long-haired hippie goofball who even if he makes it to the end of the game was just doing a bunch of crap. Only for him to indicate the wall and see how much has stuck from the amount of shit he threw at it. Yeah. Okay. So I think that's an incredibly interesting dynamic. Because again, I think when we talk about, especially the, again, the realm of survivor dorks, I think we largely regard them as like, they're game bots.

[00:57:31] You know, they're super brainy. Nerdy about this type of stuff. But I think Kilby. I practiced my 3D puzzle every single day. And not to say that Kilby has it necessarily. He just did so while trying to shout out at other people to distract them from doing their puzzles, perhaps. And I think that's an incredibly exciting combination.

[00:57:51] That he is willing to play the game to really gun hard, but to make as many waves in doing so, in the hope that he's an adequate enough surfer to ride said waves. Okay. Now, that could be something that puts him in a lot of danger. You know, I feel like he's someone who knows the game well enough, especially compared to some of the other people that we're going to be talking about, to not feel like he has to do any of that in the first half of the game.

[00:58:19] But I could easily see something where it gets to a point where he takes the game into his own hands. And yes, it blows things up and changes things for the better for him. But then everybody's looking at him and Kilby is next on the kill list. And so I think what's going to be the most difficult for him, honestly. I feel like maybe you're kind of describing another reality TV superfan that we're watching this summer. Yeah.

[00:58:46] I mean, it could be very true as well with, you know, very noticeable hair as well. But put a barrette in that, perhaps, to pin back that long hair. But I do think that Kilby has the capacity and as he's showcased to, like, do really well in these fundamental aspects of the game. As you just talked about before, he is someone who has done so many of them that I feel like he is well practiced in that. And it seems like he has the demeanor. Again, like the way you speak with him, I think he's goofy.

[00:59:16] He's affable. He certainly comes across as it. His shirt is filled with freaking penguins, for God's sake. But I feel like this thing about especially a hypervigilant era of Survivor is can that type of gameplay really succeed anymore? Is there a way to coast on that personality while still making cutthroat moves? Or is there going to be inevitably a point where people are like, OK, I see what you're doing.

[00:59:45] You're the wolf in sheep's clothing. Get the flock out of here. Yeah, I think once he is identified as being sharky, I think that then he goes from being fun and lovable and goofy to somebody they have to worry about. And I do think that based off of how I've watched people play these games, I think in the open era, I think that it's going to be less about alliances. And I think that maybe the show likes the idea of anybody could go home at any time.

[01:00:13] I think that once there is uncertainty, it might just be, OK, who's the biggest particular threat in this round? Let's just go for that person. Yeah, I'll also be intrigued to see how, especially from a game designer perspective, Kilby might take these things on. Now, listen, the open era is apparently going to offer a lot of the old, but also some new as well. So there might be some never before seen things for him to reconcile with. But considering, I think, his day-to-day involves looking at facets of the game and is like, how can I bug test this?

[01:00:42] How can I break this? I wonder if there are certain ways he could exploit, especially some of these old things that get drudged up in ways we didn't necessarily think about before, which is also what I imagine production wants. They not only want to reintroduce these things to surprise the players, but they also want them to innovate. You mentioned Devins. They loved hiding the fake idol at Tribal Council because they certainly weren't going to do it.

[01:01:05] So I should also mention here Kilby's physical capacity, because again, I think unfairly a label gets lumped in with some of these survivor dorks is like they can't do anything. They're bad in the challenges. Kilby says that he is an athlete. He plays soccer. He plays tennis. He runs a lot. He works out every day. So, again, is he a natural athlete? I don't know. He said he did do track and field, I believe, in high school.

[01:01:32] But I think even if he's relegated to be the puzzle person, he won't be the last to get to the puzzle. OK. Last thing I will point out here, Rob, is that, again, much like a comparison to a certain Big Brother player, we are going to be witnessing a survivor podcaster play on this season because Kilby is the co-host of a survivor podcast called The Winner's Edit. Have you heard of it at all? I have a friend who speaks very highly of it.

[01:02:02] Yeah, I've enjoyed it as well. I've listened from time to time. I think they put out like four and a half hour episodes and listen like, you know, I came in through the Survivor Historians. That's our bread and butter. But that is saying a lot. I think also they come in through the angle of specifically edgic, which for those of you who don't know, is the practice by which you study the edit of Survivor and try to ascertain from there. What are the editors trying to tell us and how does that factor into who's going to win and who's not going to win? Is that going to pertain to what happens in the game?

[01:02:32] Maybe and maybe not. And maybe I'm jumping to conclusions here, Rob. But listen, we had Jonathan Penner infamously pitch himself to Lisa Welchel by saying, you know, I'm a storyteller. That's what I do. Who are the good guys? Who are the bad guys? Not to say Kilby's going to approach someone and being like, listen, you're really CPN4 right now. Let's get to more of an MRRP.

[01:02:51] But if he can shape the meta again of like, this is the story that's being told right now, it may not be the ace in the hole to go back to the House of Cards example, but certainly a Jack. Narrative warfare. Yeah, I have a friend who does speak highly of it. I just don't want to engage with any sort of like at most I'll ask Steven what he's thinking in terms of the winner's edit because he's not shy about talking about it.

[01:03:20] But I really try to refrain from because I think the thing with like the winner's edit, it's like once you see it, you can't unsee it. And yeah, once in a while you're surprised. But I do feel like that a lot of times I feel like it ruins the season for me to go too far down the edgic path. I would warn a person who is playing Survivor in the real time.

[01:03:44] If you're looking for edgic clues in what's happening in the real time, I think that that is a very dangerous game to be playing because that they craft a story based on what the outcome is. And if you do not know what the outcome is yet, I think that that you could potentially be chasing some windmills thinking that they're dragons. Yeah, I mean, and listen, Kelby said when he grew up, he wanted to be a dragon. So maybe that's his that's his MO.

[01:04:13] I mean, yeah, I completely agree that. Listen, if you're doing that touch sand, like you have bigger things to concentrate on in the game than how your edit is going to be. But I think it's something that you could easily weaponize if you want to. You know, it's something that externally may not work, but internally certainly could. If you're like, again, it's it's a little bit apples to papayas here. But the idea of like, what do you think is the story the jury is going to have about so and so at the end?

[01:04:41] This is the this is the story that's going to be crafted about this person. Do we really want to let them get to the end? I can see how they're going to win right now on day 13. Do you want to wait another two weeks and make that happen or do we change the story? As you mentioned, I think it's a form of narrative warfare that Christian wasn't able to utilize that much in his version of 50. But maybe we can see it come into effect in 51. OK, all right. Anything else?

[01:05:06] Yes. Final thing that I will bring up is his superpower and his weakness. Let me just see. OK, so he says his biggest superpower coming into Survivor is, quote, I can make anybody laugh. Give me five minutes. I'm going to figure out what's their humor style. What kind of jokes do they like? I'm going to be able to figure that out and then weaponize that moving forward. I think I'm everybody's favorite person when I first meet them because I'm so good at asking questions.

[01:05:35] What happens at being a good listener? I mean, listen, how does in the first half not going to lie? My social game is going to be bomb. But then on the weakness side, I can be a little bit intense and people usually clock that everybody likes me. So that's the number one thing that I'm nervous about is that everybody is going to go, oh, that guy's really likable. We need to get rid of him. Where I'm going to flip that into another superpower is that I'm smart enough to know that. So I need to have some rough edges. I need to get into fights.

[01:06:03] I need to get into some arguments so that people think they can beat me. If you're just Smiley McLovey, you're going to lose this game real, real hard, real early. So I need to cause some conflict between people. And I know that that's my superpower. OK. All right. Well, we'd love to see it. Listen, Smiley McLovey could certainly has won people the game at the end of the day. But again, like you mentioned, it's whether it's for we are dying for conflict in the open era. Exactly.

[01:06:31] So whether it's for six days or 26 days, if his motto is like, hey, I don't want to be too much of anything. So let me purposely swing myself in the other direction a couple of times. And especially if that means causing fights or getting involved in some fights, I'm not going to be too mad at the content that it's bringing. Yeah. OK. Mike, who's next?

[01:06:54] Well, we're sticking with the RHAP and RHAP adjacent community here because next up we have Kristen Flickinger. OK. All right. Flickinger. And she said that I believe her last name means one who fixes. OK. Nice. Which is like the wholesome version of Breaking Bad, right? I am the one who fixes, Skylar. The one who fixes. OK. All right. Tell me about Kristen. Kristen is from crisis, from crisis management.

[01:07:23] She works in crisis management, but she originally is from Ketchum, Idaho. Talks a lot about growing up in rural Idaho. You know, the difficulties of being one of the only queer kids within that very rural isolationist group. But she currently lives in Santa Barbara, California, where I looked up some of her, you know, great work. She's basically worked in LGBTQ-esque affairs for decades at this point.

[01:07:50] She began her career as an intern for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force in the 90s. She managed a field office during the same-sex marriage campaigns of the 2000s. I spoke with someone who was her employee for AIDS slash Lifecycle, which is a 545-mile bike ride from San Francisco to L.A. So she is someone who is driven by a natural cause.

[01:08:14] One of those being to get onto Survivor because shades of Dan Foley, shades of Chrissy Hoffbeck. Kristen is someone who's been applying from the very beginning of the show 26 years ago. That's incredible. And had she ever gotten close before? Did she say that?

[01:08:34] This employee has disclosed to me, and I'm not sure how true it is, that apparently she almost got cast about 10 years ago, but their CEO at the time wouldn't let her take the leave to do the show. What? This is why capitalism is sucking the planet dry, Rob. The bosses are letting these people play Survivor. Let people play Survivor. 10 years ago. I don't want to, like, say hard and fast at what was going on 10 years ago.

[01:09:01] So 10 years ago would have been around the summer of 2016. So like what? HHH? Yeah. HHH. Speaking of Chrissy Hoffbeck, Ghost Island as well. Yeah. Okay. So Kristen is somebody who is incredibly passionate about the show. You spoke about this a little bit in the cast reveal, Rob, but she is someone who frequently called into the patron calls. Now, do you know how long she's been a patron for? I do not know off the top of my head.

[01:09:30] But obviously someone who is a super duper fan. Maybe she would take the title of Survivor Dork were Daniel Kilby not in the picture. I think that people have certain areas of expertise in terms of, like, what they are dorks about. Well, speaking of that, Rob, what was Kristen's particular area of expertise that you would call in about on the patron cast? From my perspective, Kristen seemed to be a super fan of the actual geography of the Mamanuka Islands.

[01:10:00] Which is great considering that if she's finding new things about this same set of islands every season, that's an inspiring presence to have in your life. Talk about the ultimate optimist. I would suspect she knows exactly what beaches the tribes are on. I don't know to what detail that she has knowledge of the actual beaches that the survivors play on. But perhaps in terms of finding idols, could that be relevant? I don't know.

[01:10:29] Well, also, actually, I know we're not in three tribes, at least at the moment. But memorably, one of the beaches they use in Fiji is the bad beach in terms of resources. So if Kristen is on the bad beach, she can acknowledge it to everybody almost immediately and how they might be SOL. Yeah. If there's a choice of, OK, do you want sunset or sunrise? Like, she'll know which is the good beach to go to. Yeah, exactly.

[01:10:57] I will also say it's been talked about a bit here, Rob, but Kristen is like a Tig Notaro doppelganger. Not only in looks, but also the way she talks as well in her Meet the Cast video. Listen, there's some famous faces on this season. Maybe they were wanting to pick the face blind people, the Akivas of the world, to thinking that a great comedian is playing Survivor. Hey, I think that there's some overlap with some of the Star Trek stuff on Paramount+.

[01:11:25] I also believe that Tig does a podcast where they talk. Oh, yeah, it does. Tig Notaro did a podcast, does a podcast with Mae Martin, who is a huge Survivor fan. So I think actually Tig is relatively aware of at least what Survivor is as a concept. Yes. OK. So let's talk about Kristen's work here. So the way that her employee described her to me is, quote, game wise, she really is cool and collected under pressure. Very direct, very decisive.

[01:11:55] Can come off as cold at first, but definitely has a soft side. And I think that working in crisis management, this makes a lot of sense, right? Her day to day that she's been doing, again, for decades at this point is to see a problem and take a clinical look at it and be like, OK, how do I solve this or how do I make this manageable enough to get through?

[01:12:18] We talk about how a Survivor game is a million different decision nodes, like a computer programming board. Kristen is kind of a debugger from that perspective in that if she feels like all these little mini decisions could come with possible conflicts, if there's anyone who's most adept to being able to figure out, OK, if this happens, how can I smooth things over to move on? And she is the person who I think will think most about the consequences of our own actions for better or for worse.

[01:12:47] Yeah, it'll be interesting to watch somebody with this profile come in and play the game. I'm reminded of Richard Hatch in the original season of Survivor, who was, you know, of course, famously sitting up in the tree and was talking about, hey, I think that we need to talk about how we're going to be addressing the problem before we start addressing the problem. And Sue Hawk looked at him like, like, like, what are you talking about? Like, you know, we're out here in the bush. Yeah, this is in corporate America.

[01:13:13] And not to say that Kristen comes from corporate America, but it'll be interesting to see, like, trying to put a problem solving system around an issue for a group of nine other people from all different walks of life. It'll be interesting to watch how that works. Yeah, because I think the question should be, like, what are the crises that she's managing? Right.

[01:13:42] Is it more logistics of like, oh, no, we lost the venue or not enough balloons arrive for this event? Or is it, hey, you have to convince this person to be able to attend our event? I think those are two different problems. The first one is more of a clinical. OK, let's work through the numbers thing. The second, more applicable to the game is a little bit more of that human element of trying to convince somebody, almost like Olivia Pope style, to handle something to fix it.

[01:14:11] That said, I think Kristen has liaised with a lot of organizations where she has that mentality anyway. But I think it's a good point that even if your job is solving problems, the problems on Survivor do not often exist in the real world, nor should they. If you're experiencing Survivor problems in the real world, again, I will say touch sand or change careers, perhaps. Listen, you don't know what they are. I guess that's true. Maybe they're professional Survivor players.

[01:14:35] When asked which previous player she identifies with the most, she says that Rachel Lamont was the first player who played the way she thinks about the game. She's quirky, likable, smart, innovative and lucky. I think that's so interesting. And again, Rachel is not this is not the first or last time she will be mentioned in these bios. And I know that you and me and Shannon did the winner rankings for the new era.

[01:15:00] And I think that Rachel was one of the biggest discrepancies that we had where I think the conversation is like on paper. She is a good player, perhaps even better than sort of the game she was forced into at a certain point. So I think that's interesting that Kristen looked at Rachel's season 47 game and said, that's how I think about the game. Yeah. Rachel is somebody who's hard to quantify because there is luck involved in her game. She also had to play from the top and from the bottom at different points.

[01:15:29] But I think that people fairly or unfairly tend to dock people for being on the bottom of like, well, why were they on the bottom? They must not be that good because they got on the bottom. They were in a bad position that they had to play their way out of. And so it's unless you have like a magic carpet ride from day one to day 26, it's very hard to say that you are the greatest at something.

[01:15:51] What's also interesting is that in her video, Kristen says that her fans and family would describe her as, quote, agitating, also lovely. That does give me some pause, Rob. And maybe this goes back to the comment that was given my way about how she can come off a little cold at first is could we see a world where Kristen maybe takes charge a little too much and is seen as a little bit of like if she feels like, OK, we need to get stuff done. So we need to delegate and I'm happy to step up.

[01:16:21] I've done it before in my job for years. Not everyone's going to take incredibly kindly to that. And so something that I think could get her in trouble early on actually is if she's rubbing people the wrong way. I mean, we talked about Sylvia beforehand. I feel like that was kind of her deal in Fiji a bit. I take it that Kristen is not go with the flow. Kristen is like, hey, if I see this being an issue, I'm going to speak up about it and speak up about it early.

[01:16:50] That's probably a good way to prevent a crisis if you see something that's going wrong. But that may also be a way to antagonize, not for the sake of antagonizing, but not everybody might like that approach. Something that we should also note as well, Kristen is the oldest person in this cast at 49 years old. There are only two other cast members in their 40s, Rob and Maggie, both of whom are 40 themselves.

[01:17:16] Like her next, you know, most adjacent in age is almost a decade younger than her. And not to say, again, age is just a number. And Kristen, I think, certainly is involved in organizations that do work with a lot of people in their 20s, in their 30s. But we have seen this sometimes, especially with, you know, the later days tropes of women, that it could be something where if someone's not able to vibe with her early on, if she's not able to find someone to connect with on that note.

[01:17:46] Again, this is something that could put her on a bad first impression with a lot of people. But I do feel like if she is able to to get some ground under her in her game, you know, she can ride that proverbial bike not only 545 miles, but to the end. Because I think it's this combination of, again, this this super fandom, but also the level headness and ability to strategically plan that I think has made her so successful in her career.

[01:18:15] That, again, gives her these on paper skills to do well. And listen, she says that she carries rocks in her bra around, usually for protection. So if they have to go to rocks, she has plenty to spare. Yeah, I think that the 10-person tribe favors Kristen more so than, you know, I think there's much more variance in the six-person tribe. But I think that Kristen is going to be able to work with the people building the shelter.

[01:18:40] I think she will find herself as part of the majority in terms of whatever original group that she's on. So if she can just survive for a little bit, I think that she's really going to be a tough out in the game. Well, let's talk about her superpower and kryptonite because this does, I think, validate a little bit of what we were speaking about before. Her superpower is flexibility and being able to read the room. Her biggest kryptonite is ego and thinking I have it all figured out.

[01:19:11] Okay. Now, I guess the question is, if everyone's kryptonite, is there ego? Does anyone have an ego problem? If everyone has an ego problem. I wish I felt like I had it all figured out. Exactly. Listen, I would kill for the satisfaction and the confidence that people who do reality TV have. You know, the grass is always greener on the other side. Yeah. So I think that could be something that maybe, you know, ego, you might, you know, overstate your position.

[01:19:39] But if you feel like you haven't figured out, that's half the battle. Well, and also, you know, I think it's less so about ego and more so like what happens when that ego gets humbled that people get judged on. And listen, Kristen has certainly not lived the easiest life and I think has been able to show a lot of adversity in the face of that, which can certainly help. But as we mentioned before, certainly not the first or the last person to talk about their own sense of self being their biggest problem coming into the game.

[01:20:33] This episode is brought to you by ChatGPT. Hey, it's Bill Simmons from the Bill Simmons Podcast. Have you guys heard about ChatGPT work? It's the new way to use ChatGPT for bigger multi-step projects. And when you need more than just answers, give ChatGPT work access to your apps and files and it can create real work documents like spreadsheets, slides and structured reports. Get started at ChatGPT.com by selecting work mode available on Plus and Pro plans.

[01:21:04] Mike, are you ready to talk about our next person for Survivor 51? Yes, let's talk about a man from two different islands. Lewis. A third one. This is Lewis Kelly. So Lewis is 28 years old, originally from Dublin, Ireland, currently lives in Puerto Rico. He's a farmer.

[01:21:26] But Rob, I think he's more so well known, especially out there on the Internet, as essentially a content creator because he has a channel with his now wife called Andrea and Lewis that has, by my count, 7.2 million followers. Pretty good. I love this guy. And 1.66 million followers on YouTube. Mm-hmm. And their content.

[01:21:51] So listen, again, when you give me limited information, I gotta dig as deep as I can, Jeff Probst style. And so I corrupted my algorithm with an unsavory amount of Andrea and Lewis content. Not unsavory. It's actually very wholesome content. Like, it's very couple-y, travel-y things. Lewis is an incredibly well-traveled man. Hell, he met Andrea when he was traveling to the U.S. and was in Florida, which is where she was living at the time.

[01:22:19] I think he says in his bio he's been to 40-plus countries. I'll be completely honest here, Rob. Checking out their content, I would have thought they'd be much better casting for The Amazing Race than for Survivor. Hmm. Okay. Hey, Survivor got him first. I suppose so. And listen, maybe he'll be, you know, one step closer to the Triple Crown if they recruit him for Survivor 40. So Lewis is someone who's admittedly a newer fan. He started in Survivor 44. Now, I was thinking about it. Part of it may have been, honestly, the Puerto Rico connection.

[01:22:49] If you remember, Heidi and Jam Jam were the first Puerto Rican contestants to appear on the show. Who could forget. It was like, oh, okay. You know, someone from this island is on the show. Let me go check it out. But he's fallen in love with it ever since. But it is notable that he only started watching the show, what, two, three years before he started to play? Not necessarily an end-all be-all for how you're going to do, but I think... But how many LRGs has he been in? He's living one big LRG, Rob. The world is his competition.

[01:23:17] Because this guy, I think Nomad is putting it mildly. But he's Nomad about his lifestyle. He absolutely loves it. And we spoke about this before. But right now, him and his wife are mega-bussing. They bought, I think, 100 acres of farmland in Puerto Rico. And they took an old school... How much does that cost? They did not disclose the price, luckily.

[01:23:43] But they then bought a school bus, completely hollowed it out, and made it their home. And that's where they live now. Okay. It seems like it's going well. Yeah, I mean, they're loving. It's a very simple life. But, you know, they're sort of getting by with the simple things in life and also their love for one another. I did watch the engagement video that they made. Lewis did this whole, like, extravagant scavenger hunt all over Tampa with Andrea.

[01:24:13] And then it ended with this whole beachside setup where he said that they were doing a promo shoot for a picnic company. And then it turned out it was one big proposal. It was actually really sweet where he was crying and she was crying. But I would say, listen, if it doesn't work out here, Survivor producers hire Lewis maybe to, like, do your beware advantages. Because this guy sent her all around town with all these rhymes and riddles to try to find the next clue.

[01:24:36] Was he doing the content solo before he was with his, and I'm not sure, did you say his wife? His wife. Yes, they got married in 2023, I believe. 2023. Okay. But so was he doing stuff solo beforehand or was it they started, hey, we're dating and we're here on TikTok? I believe it's the former because I also watched the video where they talked about how they first met. I know way too much about these people, Rob.

[01:25:05] I know a lot about Lewis and Andrea. And so, yeah, I think the case was that they had met and, like, she had followed some of the content that he was doing subsequently online. I think it has a lot of, like, if you remember Survivor UK winner Matthew Haywood does this. Who can forget? Yeah, where his job is sort of just going to a bunch of different countries and trying a bunch of different things. I think that's the content that Lewis was making for a while. I mean, again, he bills himself as a farmer according to his CBS bio.

[01:25:34] Engagement farmer. I mean, more so. Or a farmer. Exactly. Because he literally says in his video, like, I moved to Puerto Rico not knowing any Spanish, didn't know a thing about farming. Like, this is a guy who is all about throwing himself headfirst into a brand new situation and being like, I can figure my way out of it. I can surely swim my way through it, which is super fun from a TV perspective. Incredibly daunting from a game perspective.

[01:26:03] Yeah, I mean, it's inspired casting if he turns out to be somebody who we were talking about Dama Bate before, but not to say that he temperament wise will be like a Chris Noble. But we look back at that and like, wow, here was somebody who had no business being out here. And wasn't that fun to have that person in the cast? Yeah. Yeah. And so even in his videos and throughout his bio, this is a man who continuously describes himself first and foremost as chaotic.

[01:26:32] He says everyone loves a cheeky Irish person. We have great crack. We have the best banter. And that is C-R-A-I-C. Thank you very much. Though we shall see how cracked his energy is. He says his friends and family would describe him as chaotic, mischievous, cheeky. When asked about his biggest piece of kryptonite, Rob, he said my kryptonite is I get bored. Boredom takes over and I want to go do something and I want to go mess with someone. Okay, sure.

[01:27:02] And I guess is that the YouTuber energy in him that he's like, I've got to create like what the next big video idea is. You know, let me prank somebody. Yeah. Hey, this content is boring. Let me go find some ways to spice up this content. We just alienated seven of my own allies. I got to get through this challenge or I won't win a million dollars.

[01:27:23] So, yeah, I think that Lewis is someone who has an incredibly open mind and wanderlust, even though, as Kristen can tell you, they're not wandering a lot over the course of this. Hell, when he's asked what's one life experience he feels has prepared him for the game. My trip a few months ago to North Korea. At times we were isolated, unable to leave our rooms, no communication with the outside world, no phones, uncomfortable rock hard beds, never knowing what's coming the following day.

[01:27:52] Not knowing if one wrong move is going to get you voted out. I don't know how Jeff would feel about Survivor being compared to Kim Jong-un dynasty. And I don't know how Kim Jong-un would feel having his own dictatorial skills being compared to that of Jeff Probst. Yeah. Why did he go to North Korea? I feel like there's a story there. I must have that. Now I have to go watch the video. What a hook.

[01:28:19] Well, listen, maybe he wanted to, you know, check another country off the bucket list. There was this whole thing where Andrea's like, all right, I'm getting, you know, I guess I'm getting some errands done because Lewis went over the DMZ and I can't talk to him until he leaves. So I hope he's alive. Anyway, here's yoga. So this is a guy who I think is all about risk and is all about like, I don't think it's necessarily put on to, again, manufacture content.

[01:28:46] Like the way, again, he and Andrea described this story of how they met is that they had this brief dalliance in Florida and almost like Richard Linklater's before trilogy. Like then they met up by happenstance. And then immediately Lewis is like, you're the person I want to spend the rest of my life. Let's tour Europe. And the next day they were planning a European trip. I think it's a very spontaneous type of guy, which can create a lot of exciting stuff.

[01:29:13] And I think that the game is not going to remain stagnant as long as Lewis is around. But the other side of that is... He's going to love the open era. Oh my God. He's going to take it like an open book test, essentially, to fill in anything that he wants. This is what I'm talking about. But the question is, how much is he going to write in that book? And is it going to be way, way too much for people to handle? Mm-hmm. Okay.

[01:29:41] So I'm just so intrigued by the story of this guy. Like, talk about Emerald Green Acres. That here comes this person from Ireland who meets this random woman on a beach in Tampa and is like, I'm going to live with you for the rest of my life. Let's move to Puerto Rico and start a farm together. They do some content around the farm. You know, there's a very fun video he put out recently about like the small machine that he uses to do laundry.

[01:30:05] So like, I honestly think out of a lot of people, he might be the most comfortable on the beach. Yeah. Having a bunch of like material goods being taken away from him. Sure. I don't know if he knows about how to survive in Fiji, but it seems like he doesn't know how to live off of the land, off the grid. Well, he is living in a hot climate, which again, he said he had never done before moving out of Ireland. Which previous player do you identify with the most? Lewis replies, I identify with Venus. Sure.

[01:30:34] She's just out here trying to represent and handle the chaos as best she can. She's funny and not afraid to say what's on her mind and stand 10 toes down. I also feel like I'm a better, cooler version of Tyson. Oh, Tyson's not going to like that. Yeah, I'm surprised. Have they put out a statement yet from the, I know they're going to do a cast preview at some point. Has the challenge, the gauntlet been dropped? Not that I have seen. I have not heard.

[01:31:00] I would suspect that maybe Tyson is not aware of this yet, but good on Lewis to even know who Tyson is. Yeah. I mean, again, maybe speaking to a little out of both sides of my mouth here, that if you only watch a couple of seasons ago, at least he or years ago, at least he was able to study up on some of the more important people.

[01:31:17] But I could see him honestly playing in vain of a Tyson, you know, maybe not as vain as Tyson, but certainly someone who has these like cutting, cut up, funny confessionals who's going to be the camp goofball. But maybe a bit more of like the Tyson 1.0 and 2.0, where he's like, I'm going to try to do a bunch of stuff and get too cheeky, speaking of crack.

[01:31:43] And that ends up, you know, much like the snakes were driven away by St. Patrick. This snake could be driven away from this game. Now, Tyson is an incredible athlete, which is a big part of his persona. I don't know anything about Lewis's background as an athlete. I don't know either. Look at these baggy pants. I don't know what his legs look like. Yeah, man's wearing this man already looks like he's on day 20. Quadrasaurus pants. Yeah, but how baggy. Again, this is a real big season for pants. I don't really see him working out a lot.

[01:32:12] This is farm strong. He could be farm strong. It depends on what he's doing in the day to day. You know what? Honestly, Rob, the more I'm thinking about it, Lewis gives me such big Australian survivor energy. Yes, I could see that for sure. Like I'm the big character. I'm, you know, I'm the agent of chaos. Give himself a nickname. Yeah, exactly. I've got this weird kooky story. And listen, we certainly have seen those big characters sometimes do well in this game. But most of the time, not necessarily.

[01:32:40] And listen, this cast also has about the same size as an Australian survivor cast as well. I think that's where my biggest concern comes from here with Lewis is that this type of gameplay and pandemonium could work when maybe there are less individuals and bigger fish to fry. But Lewis and a 21 person cast. That's so many people between you and the final three, let alone the million dollars at the end of the game.

[01:33:08] So depending on when he's going to start lighting these firecrackers, it could easily blow up in his hands sooner rather than later. Yikes. But regardless, we'll be happy for the fireworks no matter what. I won't be happy for the fireworks as they blow up in his hands. Yeah, I guess particularly not. Luckily, they don't give him fireworks anymore. Not after that one challenge in Survivor China. Right. Okay. Anything else about Lewis? No, I mean, Lewis is one of the people I'm most intrigued by because he does have the largest presence.

[01:33:38] I mean, I've seen some discourse about this, Rob, and I'd be intrigued to hear your perspective. And this has become a thing that I think has propagated a lot of reality TV discussion. We've heard this a bit when the cast for The Traitor's New Blood was announced of like, should influencers be newbies on reality shows? Do you have a take on that one way or the other? I don't have a strong take on it.

[01:34:02] Yeah, I mean, I get it to a certain extent that like, A, especially if you're an applicant, there is this sense of like, this person got to look at because they have X amount of followers, even though I have wanted this more than they have.

[01:34:16] But I think it's almost like talking about the traitors casting in general, that if they are leaning into people who are good in front of a camera, first and foremost, and maybe people who have a good story secondarily, I think it makes sense to lean on those individuals. I think, again, it makes sense on paper if you just look at Lewis's career to be like, oh, my God, we got an influencer on the show. Why do we need that? Especially Survivor, where they've been a little less towards that in their casting.

[01:34:44] But if Survivor truly feels like they saw something in Lewis that wasn't completely transparent as I'm just here to promote my YouTube career, then I would trust the system. Yeah. The only thing that gives me pause and to go back to our experience in Tough as Nails way back when, sometimes you have somebody who's like an influencer and then it's like, okay, they're in a show. They don't really know anything about it.

[01:35:12] And they're like, oh, these guys on a podcast are being mean to me, everybody. And then it's like, you know, okay, well, now we can't even talk about the show anymore because, you know, here's, you know, 10,000 angry comments from an influencer who really has no idea what any of this is. But you basically like told tells their followers to like swarm us. Yeah, I am really intrigued to see how much Lewis is aware of the entire Survivor ecosystem.

[01:35:41] He's more so concentrated on his patch of land rather than the spanning acreage that is the Survivor online fandom. I mean, listen, it's not to say that he hasn't been involved in some of his own drama. I actually got into a little bit of TikTok wedding drama. Whoa. Where when him and Andrea got married, there was this woman named Louisa who did an entire TikTok of stealing her entire wedding where it was the same venue. They used the same design. She said Lewis stole her wedding?

[01:36:10] Louisa said that they that, yeah, I mean, that's where it's confusing, right? Louisa said, first off, Lewis stole my name, but more so that Lewis and Andrea stole my wedding. It's the same venue. It was the same designer dress, very much giving hudda of like my dream date. Lewis and Andrea were very nice where they did a video after the fact where they clarified like, yeah, I mean, this was one of the best, most expensive venues in Tulum, Mexico, where we were. And we use these different things. I mean, it was sort of a. Did she patent her that wedding?

[01:36:39] I mean, I don't necessarily think so. I think the IP was out there. And so Lewis and Andrea handled it like champs. That's the other thing as well is like, listen, you would imagine on paper that people who scroll through anonymous comments made about them for a living would have a thicker skin. You could be completely surprised. You'd think that sometimes. You'd think that. You'd absolutely think that. But if it's someone who has the thinnest skin. Well, if there's one person to have thick skin, it would be the man who spent time willingly in North Korea.

[01:37:09] Yeah. OK. All right, Mike, let's talk about the seventh person on this podcast. All right. Let's finish. Finish on a high note here. Let's go out strong with Linnea Capobianco. Linnea is 25 years old, originally from Kearney, New Jersey, lives currently in Jersey City, New Jersey. And she has one of the most unique occupations we've seen across that. Entrepreneur. Entrepreneur.

[01:37:37] But when you get a little bit deeper, when you slip off that first layer of lingerie, you discover that she owns a series of stores. A series of stores? Wow, this is an entrepreneur. There's four with her brother Andrew called Afterglow, which specializes in lingerie and adult sex toys. OK. Is that an incognito mode? Would you say Afterglow? Afterglow. I mean. OK. Should I admit to this?

[01:38:06] I'll admit to this. So they have four locations for Afterglow. There are three in New York City. Yeah. And there is one in Paramus, New Jersey. OK. And I saw this. And I thought, well, wait a minute. That's near where I live. Yeah. It's about 10 minutes down the road from me. OK. And so, listen. This is what I do when I don't have preseason interviews, Rob. Mm-hmm.

[01:38:35] I make a visit to one of four flagship stores of Afterglow. Four tribes. And I paid it a visit. OK. All right. Now, did you film any video of this? I have a picture that I can post imminently. But, yes. I ended up getting a glimpse inside the Afterglow. And I was nothing but glowing about the reviews around it. OK. All right. What's your review? All right.

[01:39:04] Well, first off, let me just say here. And first and foremost, I do not advocate. And, yeah, and this is like we're getting into, like, Kenzie territory of, like, hey. That's what I was about to say. I'm not advocating. Don't go into my workplace. I'm not advocating visiting people at their work. I would say specifically only do so if you want to take part in their business. That feels very weird given Linnea's line of work. Don't just visit them to visit them.

[01:39:30] That being said, I happened to be talking with a friend the other day who had been discussing how they always wanted to visit one of these specialty stores of paraphernalia. Yeah. And so I kind of thought, you know, two birds, one stone. Two balls, one stone something. It was fine. That I could go to this place, scope it out. Yeah. I'm not seeking out Linnea.

[01:40:00] I was not asking if she was there. I just wanted to check out the vibe and the other types of vibes around what Afterglow was. And I got to say, the vibes were immaculate. Vibes were immaculate. Yeah. I mean, if there's one word, I would describe it. Tidy. Tidy. Yeah. I have to say, so I'm looking at some of the pictures of the store. It's like giving like Apple store. It is actually.

[01:40:28] So even if you look at their website, like it's a very white based. Do you visit the Genius Bar? A little bit. Yeah. I think, well, I think that makes sense. Right. Because listen, for all intents and purposes, you know, this type of work is not necessarily known for the cleanest stuff. When you think about these types of stores, you think about like, oh, here's this grody old place where, you know, it's their shady. I'm in the wrong side of town. Exactly. In low lighting.

[01:40:56] And that is the exact opposite here. Their stuff is out loud and proud, prominently on display. High end. Exactly. If I were and something that goes in the end as well. If you're looking to find something, it is out there on display. You know, it was it was a small store, but it is a nice store that's able to have you essentially find what you want. I talked to an incredibly nice employee who said that, you know, they'd only met Linnea a couple of times, but he felt like she was going to do incredibly well.

[01:41:26] She's someone who's very smart and someone who's incredibly capable. And so listen, Linnea, if you're listening, I will give you their name off the record and you can give them a nice hefty raise for doing that. Yes. Okay. Mike Bloom is the secret shopper at Afterglow. There I am. Which is more absurd, Mike, this field trip or when you found the woman to be on Robin and Kevanita podcast live? It's really two sides of the same coin.

[01:41:55] With the opening line. Hey, do you want to make $20? Yeah. Honestly, I'm surprised. I'm very Afterglow adjacent. I will also say, listen, if we're talking about somebody who can. Can they use this on their Instagram? I don't think they want to. I don't think they want to have me associated with this. I feel like it's going to impugn their brand. Actually, like, oh, God, this weirdo is going to be was found outside of Afterglow. But listen, consider the location that Afterglow is in. This is the ultimate form of a lemonade out of lemons.

[01:42:24] This is in like a little residential park area that has like a moving company, not the one that Carter is a part of. And so there's Penske trucks parked all over the place. If you're able to run a successful business surrounded by giant trucks around you, I feel like that means you have the market cornered. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, Mike, thank you for this investigative journalism.

[01:42:51] Listen, anytime I, you know, the after show of Afterglow was, I think, a glowing success. Yeah. And so thank you, Linnea, for having a pop up shop 10 minutes away from me. You would not accept a gift card to Afterglow. That would compromise your journalistic integrity. Right. Yeah. I mean, listen, I would I have a friend who I think would appreciate it a little bit more than me, but I can't be bought Linnea. OK. All right. Not a cheap date here.

[01:43:20] All right. So let's talk about Linnea. After the season is over, you're you're open. Yeah. I'll send a Kiwi emoji to show how open I am. Upside down pineapple, which you might find on the island. So Linnea is kind of a badass boss. Yeah. She I mean, we talked about. Well, you visited her employees. Yeah. And listen, she has the perhaps the props to show for it as I give her props.

[01:43:49] I mean, Devin spoke about, OK, like my kryptonite is like the hot, mean girl. Like, I would love to work with that person. And not to say that Linnea is going to go full villain. But like, I get that vibe from her most out of anybody in this cast. Really? Did she say something that makes you feel that way? Well, I mean, she is someone who is very, I think, firm in how she thinks.

[01:44:16] Not necessarily like black or white my way or the highway. But I think she's someone who's incredibly confident in herself. You know, she has two brothers that are incredibly competitive. Apparently, they're big Survivor fans from the jump. And they would all consistently get into arguments as to who would do the best on Survivor. She's an athlete. She said that six months before going out to play Survivor, she dislocated her hand. She's broken her fingers in rugby before.

[01:44:43] Like, she is not afraid to get down and dirty as well, which is probably an alternate name for the shop she runs with her brother. She says that she is extremely well-rounded in terms of athletic and social traits. And listen, again, she's an entrepreneur. She's a business owner. You bring up D, and I feel like the skills of being able to be like, hopefully with some of the stuff she does, it should bring up D in a good way. But you're able to make a lot of decisions.

[01:45:10] I think not only very quickly, but very effectively. Being able to enact them over a group of people and able to make decisions that are befitting for the entire group, but to serve an individual agenda. I think Linnea can showcase a lot of those skills as well. Now, the thing is, is that she is a partner in all of this with her brother going full. You know what they say? Like, how many old school stuff is the whole much old school stuff is going to be in 51? Like, Greg Buis and his sister.

[01:45:40] That vibe is, I guess, welcome back in the form of Linnea and her brother, Andrew. But that could also be interesting as well. I don't know how Linnea and Andrew get along. This could be, much like Dom and Wendell, a bit of a good cop, bad cop situation where maybe one of them is a little bit more of like a hard and fast rule enforcer compared to the other one. But the fact that she also has someone that she needs to operate an entire business with does pretend well to finding a ride or die in the game. For sure. Need a good partner.

[01:46:10] Also interesting. Linnea says that one of her favorite hobbies is street photography. Could her and Jenna have a mutual interest here? Interesting. Street photography. Did she take that picture of you on the street? Exactly. It's finding random losers on the street and taking pictures of them before they go into the store. Why did I do the thumbs up? The thumbs up was the worst gesture. Maybe not the worst, but definitely in the bottom like 20 percentile.

[01:46:42] I think based off of some of the other things you could have done, I think we're all glad you chose the thumbs up. Yeah, you know what? Bryce, the thumb was out. Okay. Be happy about that. It was the lesser of all evils. Exactly. Exactly. But Linnea also talks about how when she's asked, what's something we would never know from looking at you? I have a laughing problem.

[01:47:08] I've had countless uncontrollable laughing attacks, funerals, church, class, during a presentation, etc. They happen when I know I shouldn't be laughing. Could this happen at tribal council? That's what I'm wondering. There's a very intense situation. And I know that some people alleviate the tension by making jokes or laughing, but that can be received a couple of different ways. And so it could be perceived as like, wow, you're making light of this situation.

[01:47:37] Like someone's game is about to end and you're laughing. Thanks, Linnea. Jeff's not going to like that. You crossed a Linnea that night. Mm-hmm. So, or it could just be something quirky. Something that's also very interesting is that we've talked a little bit about some of the more artsy types, obviously, with Jenna. Kristen says in her bio that, you know, the reason why she feels like she'll be the sole survivor is the stars are aligned for an Aries for the next 26 days.

[01:48:02] And then I believe Linnea made a point in not only her bio, but in her video to say, I do not live in the la-la land of astrology. Ironically enough, Rob, she does not live in the la-la land of moonlight. Okay. So that could be, you know, not to say it's the full thing. Of course, there was an infamous thing with, I think, what Kendra and Hannah Rose, I think, in the pregame of 45. And they got along thick as these once they actually met. So not to say that, like, Linnea and Kristen will be immediate ops. Yeah, I don't think so. I don't think you'd fight over that.

[01:48:33] No, but I think it's a fun initial point. And again, this is what I was speaking about beforehand of, like, I could see Linnea giving no Fs about talking about how much she dislikes the idea of astrology to the camera and anyone that can hear her. Mm-hmm. Okay. okay mike is there anything else about linnea as a player so let's see i'm just thinking my wife once upon a time said i didn't know amanda kimmel is on this season yeah so let's let's talk about

[01:49:01] that uh i mean i do not really see any similarities but actually you know what uh amanda kimmel unfortunately got blurred a lot and linnea deals with a lot of body parts that usually get blurred on national television yeah do you think linnea how do you think they're going to showcase linnea's uh line of work because we had infamously in survivor triple h it got opened up with dr mike on the barge going i'm a sex i'm a sex doctor you know they'll actually get into that with

[01:49:27] linnea survivor is a show for families we make the show for kids it's it's for it's really for people who watch the show with their kids um sure survivor will um have no issues here listen if anyone were to give the birds and the bees talk why not it be on your favorite reality show hell they should have jeff go back to talking to the camera and stop the proceedings and be like all right i'm gonna get the

[01:49:56] whiteboard out again this is what happens yeah why linnea specializes in these types of products i think that they'll say in some sort of like code that kids aren't gonna second uh ask questions about of that i i have a business for uh like maybe they'll say the sex word uh but you know adults uh wellness

[01:50:19] like i think that people will get it i'm really excited for linnea uh she's one of my people to watch again i don't necessarily know from a longevity perspective as i mentioned i feel like she may have like the business acumen to make some really interesting strategic decisions and i think be cutthroat in particular it depends on how blunt and honest she's going to be to everybody else you know when i asked her her superpower and kryptonite she says my biggest superpower is probably my social game

[01:50:48] and social read on people and the ability just to connect with others and it's probably going to be my kryptonite because i might be a little bit of a social butterfly but in theory everyone is social butterfly so it's no big deal though yeah okay they would have had so much more fun with her on big brother in the diary room and the previously on big brother oh lenae the vibes were off with lenae

[01:51:18] exactly uh when lenae got backdoored she made that oh face mm-hmm yeah um so they would have i think that they would be able to do more with this but maybe next summer maybe should be an icon exactly uh well regardless it's an iconic line of work rob and look at the end of the day if you can spend your day-to-day existence in the unenviable position

[01:51:46] of running a sex shop with your flesh and blood brother you can deal with any uncomfortable situation survivor can throw your way and maybe even before lrgs orgs this is the best experience for the island okay all right there you go mike well done today thank you yeah these were seven really interesting individuals in particular uh certainly i think some of the most to talk about in terms of you know

[01:52:14] some more well-known people from the online i was trying to give you thumbs up on your job well done today no i would say pics take it moments before disaster but let's be honest my entire life is a disaster so that might as well be a baby pic of me yeah uh yeah i mean we got to talk about arguably the the biggest following uh from a social media perspective for anyone on this cast as someone whose line of

[01:52:40] work i would say we've already expended but i think we can go one or two more rounds certainly maybe 13 more when the season premieres and believe it or not rob we're only a couple weeks away at this point a fortnight until survivor 51 premieres with its two weeks to go all right well very excited uh mike you and i did another survivor podcast recently we took a survivor time trip we went back to go back in time

[01:53:06] to operation italy and we talked with genevieve and andy and sam about how they put their minds together on a on the uh a three-person effort there that was operation italy that uh you know had the two of those people leaving a bit unsatisfied right after yes it still felt really thrilling in the moment

[01:53:31] yes okay mike what else is coming up for you so i've got something coming out uh in the next day or so where again the open era theoretically anything can happen and so i ended up writing a piece where i took several twists from survivor seasons past and i feel like okay there's a fairly realistic chance they won't come back but i would love to see them back i make the case for them from you know things we've seen quite a few times in the old school seasons but haven't seen the light of day in

[01:54:00] quite some time to like these one and done twists that fans have been clamoring for a while to see so check that out eventually i will be putting out again the full cast responses to these superpower and kryptonite answers otherwise we've got big brother going on i'll plug the traders game as well incredibly fun to be a part of let alone to watch unfold otherwise you can check out everything i'm doing at a mike bloom type okay there you go

[01:54:27] all right mike uh job well done thank you so much can't wait to come back one week later to talk about the last seven members of this tribe take care of a good one bye this episode is brought to you by chat gpt hey it's bill simmons from the bill simmons podcast

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