Survivor 48 Pre-Game Day 6: Kevin Leung & Mary Zheng

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[00:01:43] My name is Mike Bloom, and we shall see if the two people I am talking with today will make the top five of Survivor 48 or even go beyond that. I am talking about Kevin and Mary. Of course, if you missed it, I already kicked off our Vula Tribe cast interviews yesterday with Cedric and Justin. And if you did miss it, big mistake.

[00:02:09] Allewiate that mistake. Make sure you're subscribed to our podcast at weknowsurvivor.com and to our videos at robhazalebsite.com slash YouTube. So you have a little bit of the visual to fit the audio. Up first today, we have Kevin Lang. Kevin is 34 years old, originally from Fremont, California, currently living in Livermore, California. And he is a finance manager.

[00:02:37] But as Kevin himself would tell you, while he has a nose for numbers, his brain is maybe a bit more on the chaotic side. So let's get into everything that he is bringing into the game of Survivor in my interview with Kevin. Give me your name, your age and your occupation. I'm Kevin. I'm 33 and I'm currently a finance manager. OK, so is that something you've always wanted to work in crunching the numbers?

[00:03:05] So I was never really a business finance person when I was growing up. My parents are both engineers and they really were like, you're either going to be a doctor, lawyer or engineer. And I was like, OK, what's under the above? No, yeah. I was like, what's the least amount of school? And they said, probably an engineer. So I was like, OK, what's the easiest engineer? And they said civil engineer. So I was a civil engineer for a little bit. Wow. And then I was like, I just can't work in AutoCAD and drawings all day. Like it's it's not my vibe. I'm much more of a people person. I like talking.

[00:03:34] So I went into business and then now I'm in finance. So wow. Just kind of pivoted careers. So what does that involve for you? Is it managing assets or? Yes, I work for a tech company. So it's forecasting, budgeting, return on investments. We have product launches. And I'm the guy who always crunches the numbers and is like, is this good? Like, can we make money off this? Well, it's interesting because I feel like so much of that is probably forecasting trends, trying to look ahead and not to say you should be trying to predict too much about what this game is going to throw you. But from a strategic perspective, I'm sure there's a lot of applicable stuff, right?

[00:04:04] Of like, if I make this decision now, how is that investment going to pay off on day 26? That's exactly right. I mean, even before the game has started, I've already been calculating like there's 18 people on the cast. There's probably no way that the three muscle heads that are on the beach are going to be in the same tribe. So like, how do we break up the tribe? So it's about like making sure like there's, there's a, uh, like a stereotypical muscle meathead shield. Then there's like a really smart, you know, kind of like middle-sized person like me.

[00:04:30] Then there's like the really skinny, you know, like athletic girl who's like killing it at all sports. So when I was doing all the permutations and combinations, I'm like, okay, here's other people who I can probably interact with and maybe most likely will be on the beach with me. Well, then let's talk about what brought you out to this assessment perspective in the first place. Why Survivor for you? Yeah, I always watched Survivor when I was younger. However, um, growing up, my parents, um, since they're both immigrants from Hong Kong, they worked really, really hard to get themselves through college.

[00:04:58] They had to work like two, three jobs just to get by, pay themselves through college just for me and my brother to have a successful career or just even a better life. And growing up, um, my parents both had to work on weekends and even, um, a late night. So I was put into afterschool programs a lot and, and nothing bad about afterschool programs, but I always wished that I could, you know, play sports after school or I always would see parents pick up their kids and they're going to like, I don't know, some, some extracurricular activity. And I would either walk home or take the school bus home.

[00:05:26] And I just always was like, man, how come I'm so different? You know, like I want to experience things and I want to try new things, but I'm just either brought up differently or just don't have the same opportunities. Um, one night my parents also are really strict on TV because they wanted me to do well in school. Right. So they're like, you can either watch the news when I'm watching it. I was like, but it's in Chinese and I can't even understand it. Yeah. Plus like you're however many years old. I was like 10. You sit down and watch the news. Yeah. So I, uh, it watched the news with them and then I would do homework. Uh, and my dad would watch it down.

[00:05:55] My dad would watch TV downstairs and my mom is upstairs kind of like getting ready for bed because she has to sleep so early and she'd be like, no TV. And I'm like, okay, like no TV. And then one night I just heard like the intro sound to survivor Australia. And my dad was actually asleep and it was like, like the, and I was like, oh my gosh, what is this? So I actually went downstairs to turn off the TV for my dad. But when I went there, I was encapsulated because I saw Colby Donaldson and Jerry and I was like, wait, something's happening. Um, and then I had to silence it because I was afraid my mom was going to hear it. Oh my God.

[00:06:24] Uh, and I was like, what's happening? Why is there fire? You know, like why is someone jumping in the water? And that's kind of how I first saw survivor. Um, as I watched it many seasons because my mom would do the same, it's the same ritual. She'd go to sleep. I would go downstairs, watch it without any noise and not understand what a tribal council was. I didn't know. Wait, so were there any subtitles? Are you just, so you're just watching it without any noise? Any audio? No audio. I mean, do you know how to read lips now at this point? Are you studying in it? I should, honestly. But I just noticed like people were, you know, talking together. Yeah.

[00:06:53] There's all these like different tribe names and then they'd go to tribal council. And then I always remember one person would leave and I'm like, okay, this is a vote someone out kind of situation. And it wasn't until I was in high school where I was able to watch, um, Yul Kwan season, season 13. Cook Islands. Yeah. And when I first saw Yul Kwan and the Puka Puka tribe, I was like, oh my gosh, like someone like me looks, you know, like they're on the tribe and they're doing so well. Like they're not the stereotypical smart person. Like Yul is not just smart. He's strategic. He's athletic.

[00:07:23] He's social. And I was like, this is someone that I aspire to be like. And, um, I was like, wow, I would love to one day be on Survivor, but I don't have that, you know, physical aspect of, um, like Yul or anybody else to make it out here alive. So I spent many years trying to bulk up and gain a lot of weight. So I'm like, okay, I'm smart. That's like one part. And I'm social because I love to talk to people, but I lack the physical aspect. So I think I'm ready now. Yeah. So you talk about your long history with Survivor, be it nonverbal or verbal.

[00:07:53] I mean, you shout out the freaking Puka tribe, which is like a deep, deep cut. So if you could pick one winner and one non-winner who you identify with the most, is Yul in that category? Are there other people you're picking? So Yul is in that category just because of representation. Yeah. But I don't fit my personality. Me and him are totally different. He's methodical. He's way too often. He's more quieter. I'm just kind of chaotic and a little bit disheveled. Some of my friends call me chaotic friendly. So I love to smile. What an alignment. What an alignment.

[00:08:20] I love to laugh, but sometimes I just, like, my brain is like firing at all cylinders of my thoughts. Um, so I would like to say that I really like the David tribe for Dave and Goliath. That's actually the reason why I started applying like consistently after watching Dave and Goliath. Really? Because I was like, there's David. It's like, I feel like a David. Yeah. I feel like a David. And there are people here who aren't the best at one thing. They're just here to prove themselves and to show like that they didn't have to grow up. I grew up really skinny, really small.

[00:08:48] I had glasses, braces, was, you know, made fun of that school for, you know, like not being good at sports or just like other things. And I just tried really hard to get, like, I don't want to feel that way ever again. Um, so I'm at this tribe now. So Christian, Davey, Nick, um, the, the Dave, the David tribe itself is someone that I really like to be. And also Caleb from season 45. He's someone that I was like, okay, he's a social player. He's a smiley guy. Um, so I'd love to play like him, but not be too much like him. Cause I think he was perceived to threat really early on.

[00:09:17] What's your favorite moment in survivor history? My favorite moment. I mean, going back to season 37 when they use their advantages together. Yeah. The, the whole like, uh, John Hennigan minority vote split. Minority vote split. The, um, Goliath just sounded so confident. They thought they had this in the back. Dan had two idols. I mean, I also really liked the Goliath too, like Alec and Dan and everyone, but the David just banded together. They trusted each other and it was multiple idols. It was an idol nullifier. It was like a steal a vote.

[00:09:44] And then it was just like, and I liked to have, I forgot one, the one guy who was like Bing Carl. Yeah. Like right when, and I was like, Oh my gosh, if I could be on the Island, I would rally the misfits together. And we would go join together and be like, let's take down these big guns because there's some pretty big people here on the Island right now. So interesting. Yeah. So from your own perspective, what's one life experience you think has prepared you for this considering how long you've been watching for? Yeah. Um, something interesting that it might not look like just from me, but, um,

[00:10:13] after I started working out and kind of, I did, I changed my hair. I got better skin. I just was like, I want to look better. You sheathed all that yourself. Yeah. I sheathed all that myself. I actually was recruited by Abercrombie to be a greeter slash model in their front store in California. And I was like, this is better than getting an MBA. This is better than graduating college. Just like, I don't care about any of those things. Working at Abercrombie is the highlight of my life. Cause I was like, That is, I think we need to like bottle that and like paint it out the front of their store now. Yeah. Cause I was like, Oh, what a success story.

[00:10:42] Like I, I cannot believe like, I never thought that I would be, um, even working at Abercrombie to begin with someone like that looks like me or just like has a vibe or just, um, but then the manager was like, okay, your job is to charm people. Like make people feel like a million dollars when they come in the store, you know, like recommend different items, say, this looks great. You know, do that. Be hospitably friendly. That really trained me really well to talk to so many people and charm their socks off. And I feel like that's kind of how it got me in life. Like I got through MBA, I was number one in my class.

[00:11:12] Oh my God. Um, I work in tech now, like a really big tech company. I'm working there for six years. Yeah. And I feel like all of it is how to charm people. Like it is smiling, make them feel like they're like a million bucks. Talk to them about what they like, you know, ingratiate myself and like their life, be a family member, like just like that kind of stuff. And I think that's going to help me in this game. Would you say that's like your biggest superpower from your life that you're bringing into the show? I think so. I think that, uh, bringing in the socialness and characteristics of smiling, laughing, charming.

[00:11:40] Also, um, there's another part of me that has a lot of grit. Um, and that's because when I was like, like I said, when I was younger, I really wanted to play sports. And my dad was like, okay, let's play tennis. Like basketball, football and baseball were out of the question. I was like four feet five. So there's no way. And like very small. And my parents were like, you just can't compete with the, with the boys. So tennis is like, you know, one of the few things that doesn't require, uh, it's not height. Isn't the only thing to win. Um, so he was, my dad was like, okay, let's try tennis.

[00:12:09] And he noticed that, you know, even though I was small, I had a lot of work ethic and I had a lot of drive to win. So my first tournament that I played at, and this is kind of going into why I want to do survivors because, um, the first time I attended, I was 10, 12 years old and, um, I played kids that were six feet, um, tall. And I was like, this is impossible. Like, how are these kids so huge? And, um, it was at a country club. I went in there and me and my dad felt like outcast immediately. I didn't have a tennis bag. I didn't have like nice outfits. I didn't have good shoes.

[00:12:37] I just had a racket that my dad got from me at, I think target or big five. And, um, I just felt so out of place and we would get looks and people would look at us and they would snicker. They would say like, Oh yeah, you're playing my son. Like that's, that's not right. Are you sure you're not in the 10 category or the eight? And, um, my dad just told me, he's like, don't listen to these people. Like you can show them they're wrong. Show them you're wrong. And like, it's okay that you're not, you know, the biggest person or strongest person, but you have grit and you can run fast. And I think that moment when I saw my dad, he was watching me from the sidelines.

[00:13:06] He wouldn't even watch with the parents because he didn't want to, you know, interact with them and he didn't want to get looks from them. So he would watch from the side. And I remember I actually won that tournament against those people. And I looked at my dad and I gave him a fist pump and I was like, dad. And he was like, you can like, you can do anything. So I think if I go on survivor, oh, I am going on survivor. Um, I really want to like win a challenge and like do a fist pump and it'll be for my dad. And say like, yeah. Oh, that kills me. I love that. That's a beautiful story. So now moving to the other end, what is your biggest piece of kryptonite you think?

[00:13:36] Okay. My biggest piece of kryptonite is fairly obvious. I'm not that outdoorsy. I love to backpack and I love to hike, but that's about it. Um, I, I mean, I do care about how I look. I want to make sure my hair is like done every morning. I want to like do all that. I'm like, okay, this island, it is not the place for that. Yeah. You're going to, you're going to be like, Jeff, can we trade in a flint for a mirror? I need to take a look at myself right now. Yeah. It's like, well, everyone's going to be idol hunting. I'm going to be like, hold on.

[00:14:02] I'm going to make a gel out of some coconut mash and some seawater and let me get ready for the day. So I think my biggest kryptonite is honestly surviving. The challenges part, like I'm physically ready. I work out. I feel really fit. I also have been fasting quite a bit. So it's like, okay, I can go on a couple of days without eating water. But the challenges, the puzzle part, I'm really excited about the challenges I'm excited about. It's the physical aspect. The other 23 hours of the day. It's like, how do I survive? But you know what? I got grit, so I'll be able to do this.

[00:14:31] And hopefully you have some people maybe on your side that can take care of that stuff for you. You build the shelter. I'll sleep in it. Yeah. Yeah. You build the shelter. I'll look for an idol. I'll share it with you. You know, this is how it works. Symbiotic relationship. I mean, speaking of that, I'm sure you've been sitting around making assessments, eyeballing people. Let's start with the positive side here. Describe to me some people that you have great vibes for, that it's like best case scenario. You hit the beach day one. This is a ride or die for me. Okay. The biggest person that I've already had a good vibe with already is the mom.

[00:15:01] I think it's the, I don't want to say elder. She's older. She, she, she looks like a mom. Uh, we, we both going for the ranch and I both grabbed it and I looked at her and she's like, oh, and I was like, final three, final three with my eyes. A literal meet cue. Yeah. Like I'm pretty sure I watched a rom-com in the nineties that was like love over the ranch. And she was like, are you going to use it? And I was like, huh? Oh, sorry. I was, I was trying to like eye her and I was like, work with me. Like, come on. She was like, what? And I was like, I can't do this. So her I've been really good vibes with.

[00:15:30] Um, there, I know that there would be one really, really buff muscle head on the beach. Like at least on my tribe, there has to be, I can't be the buff as well. There's three people that I already see. Um, I call them, uh, Captain America. There's Hulk. And then there's Falcon. It's a part of the Avengers. And I'm Spider-Man. So I'm like their friend, but I'm like not. But you're off doing your own stuff. New York city needs to be pleased. Yeah. New York city needs to be pleased. I gotta see Zendaya. Like I'm just Tom Holland right here. But, uh, one of those three are going to be on my tribe no matter what, because there's no way that they can't be.

[00:15:59] And I've been, you know, getting good vibes from them. They're, they're very fit and very athletic. So I've been trying to do like puzzles and brain teasers next to them to be like, Hey, you know, like every Batman needs a Robin. Like, you know, like, like I'm smart. I can do this, but I don't want to show that I'm really smart. Although I think people can probably either assume or maybe they can tell like, okay, this guy's a little bit of a brainiac. So those people I want to, I feel good about. All right. Let's go on the other side here. Who are some people that you're maybe not getting some good vibes from or you can't read at all?

[00:16:28] Oh, um, okay. So overall everyone has like good vibes, but I think the people that are really expressive. So there's some people out here who are ready, you know, um, showing leadership qualities or like, like, Oh, can I go to the bathroom? Like, Oh, like first on the bus. Like those, those kinds, I'm like, okay, these people here, like know what they want. They're, um, they're, you know, they're assertive. They're not wavering. Like these people are going to be, um, not hard to work with, but they're just going to be like the ones I have to look out for because they're going to want to make sure

[00:16:57] that, you know, people listen to them and that they're going to be dominating like the, either the conversation and stuff. So for me, I, Oh, I had this game plan already and I mapped it out. It's called the family tree. Kevin's family tree. Okay. So what I'm going to do is I already wrote them. I got like a whole tree and I'm right here and everyone that I meet, I'm going to like make myself a family member to them. So either like if they're older than me, they're my mom, they're my dad. If they're like a little younger to me, they're my little sister, little brother. If they're like really, really talkative, my best friend.

[00:17:27] So for me, the family tree is going to evolve. I'm going to make myself a family member to them. And therefore it has some kind of connection compatibility. I think that would serve really well. Yeah. And then also listen, if you're talking from like the top of the tree down, you can lop off some leaves. You can lop off some branches much harder to get rid of the trunk or break the roots. Right. Right. Yeah. I'm the root. I got to play a really strategic game of not being so social because I think people can already see that I'm kind of smiley and really friendly, which means if I do that with everyone, like, Oh, he's just doing that.

[00:17:54] Like he's, he's a, he's a threat because he's actually making the same loyalty and alliance to everyone that they see. So for me, it's all about numbers. I love numbers. I love kind of calculations and logic. Six people in a tribe. I have to find a meat shield first. So the two guys, we have to be together and say like, Hey, they're going to come after us. If we don't stay together, they're going to come after like the physical threats. Then I got to find a girl, the girl to ensure that they don't have a girls' alliance. And if they do have a girls' alliance, I'm the fourth guy here. Yeah. You're the Charlie. Yeah. I'm the Charlie. Bring me in here, get the fourth alliance.

[00:18:23] But if that guy can find a girl and I can find a girl, that's our floor right here. And we just don't talk that much. We just mingle. We meet, we tell other people, the other two, like, Hey, it's going to be that person. It's going to be, but that's how I'm going to survive the first couple of tribals, get through the merge. And I kind of want to go to the merge without a big shield because when like, kind of like the season 44, when the Tika three came in, they were weak. They were weak and they were disheveled and they were, Carolyn was off doing whatever. And Keraset was like scheming and plotting everything.

[00:18:51] But they came in and the Ratu tribe and the Soka tribe went after each other. And I think that's what I would love to do is go in, take, so pre-merge, I have to vote out one of the, like the meat shields. All right. So you want, you want to go to tribal council pre-merge? At least once. Okay. At least once. Cause I think going into the merge with six people is going to be just death and they're going to see us and we're going to get picked off pretty easily. Cause the other two tribes are going to combine and take out us. So I think going to the merge with four is ideal. I have to go back to what you said before about your chaotic mind and how it works.

[00:19:21] I mean, how is that going to translate for you into the game? Is this just a natural state for you to consistently be running through a bunch of ideas? And how tough is that going to be to like focus in on what to do in that moment? You know? Yeah. It's going to be really tough because back at home, like this is crazy that I'm actually out here playing a game that it's not real life. Cause at home, I'm so calculated. Like during MBA, I was voted best negotiator in one of the classes. And one of the reasons. Okay, Angelina. I know. I actually really, really like Angelina. Even though she played a certain game.

[00:19:49] I really like Angelina because she came in with confidence. Absolutely. She was like, this is how it's done. And then everyone was like, we're voting her out. She's like, I did not know that. And then I also will ask someone for the jacket. I'm very cold at night. So Natalie, I don't know if there's a Natalie out there. I need your jacket. Well, also you'd be like, listen, I was an Abercrombie front store person. Like I can wear it well. Yeah. Absolutely. A dress, skirt, whatever. Just give it to me. I want to wear it. But the part of negotiation is like, okay, what's the biggest risk intake? And for me, back at home, it's calculated.

[00:20:17] Like everything has a benefit and a negative association. But you can make the most calculated risk to where it's the most logical, it has the most benefit taken well. Or it's not taken well because of the fact that there's a lot of constant. In this game, I'm so paranoid. And I'm just like a paranoid person in general. That I can't make a calculated risk because I don't know all that information. That's very true. I'm going to be hearing like random things that people are going to be saying. I'm going to be lying to people. They're going to be lying to me. So for me, that's where it's going to be in my head a lot. Like I already know I can't sleep that well, like normally.

[00:20:45] So in my head, up at night, I'm just going to be running through scenarios. I will need someone who's really chill. Yeah. Hopefully, Amit chilled. Or hopefully one of those bigger guys to be like, hey, what do you think? Calm me down a little bit. What's the scenario plan? So I think someone to help me calm me down. That would be a good Alliance member. So when it comes to probably things that might keep you up at night even more are the ideas of idols, advantages. These are assets perhaps. How much are you incorporating that into your financial plan for Survivor? Yeah. Honestly, the idols, beware advantages, steal of votes, bank of votes, knowledge is power.

[00:21:14] All these different advantages play a huge role in my strategy because you can't come in with a whole game plan. It's not going to work because someone might have a bank of vote or steal a vote and then your vote's taken away and your numbers aren't going to work. So for me, I'm going to plan it all out in my mind every day and go and say, okay, these are the numbers. If no one has an idol or if no one has an advantage. Now, who might have an idol and who might have an advantage? That's where it'll come into play. Okay. If this person might have an idol, then how does this play out?

[00:21:40] Should we put one vote on them to flush it out or two votes on them and then two votes on somebody else to flush out the idol? Like that's going to be how it works. But I want to be the brainiac of my tribe, but in a very subtle way. Well, clearly, you know, you're very strategic, as you said, outside of the game. I'm intrigued. What was the cover story you gave to your job? What do they think about what you're doing for the next month? So they know that I'm out on a month. They said, okay, where are you going? And I was like, I'm just traveling. They're like, where? And I was like, you know, something warm.

[00:22:08] Like, I'm just feeling like, and they're like, you never do this. Like, you don't just take vacation ever. And a month is crazy. And also, you're not telling me where you're going. And I was like, oh, it's c'est la vie. You know, time to... Bye! Yeah. And then my boss was like, you're way too, like, neurotic and paranoid. And like, you're really good at your job. So what are you doing? And I was like, trust me, I will explain everything later. Yeah, when I have a million dollars. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll shut you up with a Moscow meal. I will go to a bar.

[00:22:38] And I'll just be like, you know what? Here's $10. Oh, my God. Yeah. They don't know. But I think they have a hint. They're like, are you crazy? Are you doing something insane? And I was like, I am doing something insane. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So I feel like the past couple of seasons of the new era have definitely taken things in a different direction, 45, 46. And I'm sure as you were finding out you were coming out here, you probably had one eye on those seasons being like, are there some takeaways I can incorporate into my own game? What were some of those takeaways? Yeah.

[00:23:07] So for 45, Austin and D. Poor Austin. Also not poor Austin because, you know, he played the game. But Austin fell in a showman, but he trusted people so much that it ruined his own game. I think that right there is knowing like for 45, there was Julie, there was D. There was Jake. There was Keturah. Keturah making a mistake of not voting out D in that moment. Like trusting your gut. I think 45, D trusted her gut the entire way. Yeah. Lied to Austin about not telling him about Mama J about the vote.

[00:23:36] So I think like that's where I learned in 45 was like, okay, if you have an instinct, go for it. Do not waver in your emotions. You can waver in your gameplay as a gameplay evolves, but you can't waver in your emotion. Like if you have a game plan and you're sticking with this person, don't like make things like crazy and don't try to rock the boat. 46, like I think this game is going to change a lot for 48 because we all seen 46. Right. No one used their idol. So my take is that if someone has an idol, they're going to use it immediately because they're so scared of going home.

[00:24:05] Now that has actually like reverse psychology because everyone thinks that. And now it's like, okay, now that they think that let's not vote them out and vote someone else out and make them waste their idol. I know. It's a little bit of like the princess bride, right? It's like using that double, triple, you know, negatives to try to figure it out. So yeah, it's a little bit like metagaming the metagame. Yeah. So, I mean, I think that's where all my like calculations come into play. And it's kind of crazy because things don't make sense. I'm like, statistically, I'm going to go out there and be like, what am I doing? Like, you know, like I need to find someone to talk to.

[00:24:34] No one's talking to me. Like, but I think in my head, the best way to prepare is to be as like laid out as possible. Have a game plan going into it. And if things change, it's okay. Like things will change. It's okay. I'll be left out of the vote. I have to be left out of the vote eventually. I can't be, you know, driving the whole tribe, the entire game. I would love that to happen, but I don't know if that will like probability wise happen, but it's okay. Like just play, consider it every day, wake up and say, okay, it's a new game. And just, and just hope for this. And also at nighttime, look for idols. Like, um, I'll be up anyway. Yeah. I'll be up. I have a game plan too. Okay.

[00:25:02] I drink a lot of water naturally, um, because I like to work out, but also just like, I think I'm just really talkative and always thirsty all the time. So I'm like, okay, great. If I, um, go to the water well a lot and not because I'm like looking for idols or like, you know, like talking to someone, I'm just so thirsty. Yeah. My canteen's always empty. Uh, but you're thirsty for something else. I'm thirsty for some idols and thirsty for some conversations. So my goal is to keep using the water well as a passageway to be like, uh, water again. Like here I go. And if someone's like, oh, I'll go with you.

[00:25:31] I'm like, oh, okay. Like they're sensing me an opportunity to talk to me or I'm sensing opportunity to talk to somebody else. And therefore it could be natural. No one will sense that. Like we're working together. What is your hottest survivor take? What would you say is your most controversial opinion about a player or a season or the show in general? Oh, well, I don't know if this is controversial because Q, I think Q, Q has, Q's polarizing. You either love him or you like, don't like his gameplay. Yeah. It's kind of like Liz.

[00:25:59] You either like Liz because she's so, you know, crazy and chaotic or you don't like Liz because she does outburst and all or Venus. Same thing. Like Venus is cute. I really like those characters. I like characters who bring their, um, charm, pizzazz, but also like they're not afraid to showcase who they are. And I think for me, like I play it so safe at home and I just, I'm just such a normal guy. I really do think I'm just a normal guy. Maybe I'm not actually, but I think I'm normal back at home. But here it's like, okay, Kevin, it's time to be diabolical.

[00:26:26] Like time to utilize everything that's in your head for like the last like 10 years. And like all the circumstances I've been through in life, like all the shortcomings and like fire, like use that fire and passion and like, yeah, play aggressively. Play day one. Like don't be afraid to hold back. So that's a hot take that people who play hard is not necessarily a bad thing. It's actually like their character. And actually it's, they're very real about that. So you know how I close out these interviews. If you could bring a celebrity or a fictional character out as a loved one for a loved one's

[00:26:54] visit, who would it be and why? All right. So my favorite tennis player growing up is Maria Sharapov. There we go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's because like her story, um, she came to America with her dad with only like her dad only had like $700 in his pocket. Oh wow. Worked really hard. And she got to number one in the world and so successful. So she was like, kind of like my, she's my crush growing up. I really liked her. I had like posters. So you had the poster on the wall. Yeah. I was like Maria. Wow. I actually named my goldfish after Maria too. So Maria is at home, my goldfish. Oh nice.

[00:27:22] And I'd bring the real Maria over here, uh, to the island. Cause I, I just love her tenacity and her grit. And I think she would do well in this game too. Oh yeah. So yeah. All right. Well, let's talk about the ace she'll serve up in this season. Cause we know that 50 is around the corner and we know it's going to be returning. How are you going to make your mark in season 48 so that we're going to be talking a year from now back out here? Yeah. I mean, I hate to say, you know, I haven't been thinking about 50 at all, but it really is. It's like, well, 50 is, uh, you know,

[00:27:51] gigantic opportunity for all the best players to come back. I got to play. Like it's the last time I'll ever come out here. I got to make big moves. And the worst part is like, I can't make big moves if I'm not at the end, like towards the end of the game. If I make it towards the beginning, it's going to be, Oh, okay. He, so what? He, he found an idol. He didn't use it or he used the idol incorrectly because he was so, um, eager to use the, you know, the idol. So for me, it's about getting my personality out. It's about getting my charm, um, getting people to like me, being social enough, getting it through the merge.

[00:28:20] And then at the merge, getting it of numbers to play. I want to control the merge at the end. That's when the family tree grows. That's when the family tree grows. That's when I start the apple starts falling, you know, chop this person off, chop that person off. And then at the end, like, I think to make a big move is that seven or six, like to get you to be a returning back at season 50 is eight, seven, and six are the times when you really start driving the game. The beginning, it's all about surviving. I am not here to be the biggest threat out there. I'm here to be the, the, the best friend, the, the, the,

[00:28:50] the little brother, like any person I'm seeing, I'm like, Oh my gosh, do you like ranch? I love ranch. Like you like bacon, like bacon. Me too right here. Let's go. So, but I think to get to the merge at eight, seven or six, like to find an idol to play correctly, to be able to mislead somebody to voting the wrong way, to lie, to deceive. Like that's how a good player becomes a great player. Parvati, Rob, Tony, like these people did not waver in their gameplay. Like they had it and they had a game plan going in Parvati, Micronesia. She was like, Oh, I'm getting this girl's Alliance and I'm going to ride it to the end.

[00:29:20] So I think like for me, that's how you go from like good to great to like the best. Yeah. Yopo writes this attitude. Like make the best of the time you have now. It'd be great if you get another one, but like don't, don't guarantee that, you know, make use of the investments you have in the moment. And then if something pops into your bank account, if interest gets accrued, that's great. Yeah. Also like Liz in a 46, I mean, she had this grand story to tell during family channel council, but she never got the opportunity to use, like to say it because she got voted out during fire or she,

[00:29:49] she didn't make fire. Yeah. So I think for me, like you can have a great story. You can have a great game. If you're not there at the end to tell it, there's no point in, in doing all these things. Like you're here to make it to final trouble council. So in the, in the beginning, I'm okay with not playing that flashy in my head. I'm like, okay, what's the strategy? The strategy is to survive with the numbers going in with the people that you trust going into the merge. So as long as I can do that, then I can really unleash it during the like post merge and the very end of the game. It'll be as unruly as your hair probably at that point. Yeah. I just feel bad because like,

[00:30:18] I'm trying to look as like clueless as possible. Like even like when people are like reading, I'm just staring in a space. I'm like, like they're just like, they're going to think you're some sort of like robot. And I was like, good. Yeah. I don't like people know, like I spent a long time in the bathroom trying to get my hair ready, like my skin ready. And I'm like, this is good. I want them to think that I'm a, you know, clueless idiot who just came out here to look good on the beach. And that's good. That's all I want them to think I am. And that's hopefully it'll be good. There you have it.

[00:30:43] My interview with Kevin and he gave us a lot to drink in. I am feeling as full of information as Kevin's bladder will probably be by the end of the game. If he decides to institute his strategy of drinking so much water to disguise his attempts for idle hunting, but had a great time hearing Kevin's story, how he fell in love with the show and prepared over all these years to be ready for it, to feel like this is his time. Well,

[00:31:11] this is the time we are going to take a break, but when we come back, we will go from our number one interview in so many ways to our second interview of the podcast. As I talk with Mary. All right. Our second interview of the podcast, fourth member of Vula. You hopefully won't be saying who about her at the end of this. It is Mary, Mary Jung. Mary is 31 years old,

[00:31:41] originally from Montgomery village, Maryland, currently living in Philadelphia. And she is a social worker, specifically a substance abuse counselor. And as we get into, I think Mary's charitable nature, her ideas of wanting to help others come down from her parents and their very storied political history. But how much will it carry over into the island? We talk about all that.

[00:32:06] And when I thought was a really great conversation that I'm excited for you all to check out with Mary, your name, your age, and your occupation. My name is Mary Jung. I'm 30 years old and I'm a social worker. You're a social worker. Interesting. So what does that capacity involve for you? What do you work specifically with? Right now I'm working with substance abuse counseling. Wow. But I've done a lot of crisis intervention, for example, working at crisis hotlines, working in emergency departments,

[00:32:34] working in wintertime emergency homeless shelters. So yeah, but right now working with substance abuse counseling in Philadelphia. So talk to me about the process that got you there. Is this something you've always wanted to do? I feel like I was always called to do social work. I didn't realize it though until one year I spent hitchhiking, backpacking alone around the Mediterranean. And every country that I went to, there were people who told me their secrets. And then ended up saying, wow, you know,

[00:33:03] I've never told that to anybody. I feel so much better now. And me thinking like, you know what? I feel great too. That was such an experience for me. So I came back from that and I realized, you know, I think a therapist gets to get paid to do this, to like listen to people's secrets and help them see their strengths. Yeah. So then I, you know, did Peace Corps and some other things that I wanted to do before launching into my career. You really checked off like the humanitarian bucket. I did AmeriCorps as well. Wow.

[00:33:33] Yeah. Yeah. So I've kind of been doing social work, you know, way before I got my master's in social work. Yeah. So then what is that process been like? Have you always worked in substance abuse counseling or any other subjects? Substance abuse counseling is new for me. I started that right after grad school, but I have had personal experiences with people that I've cared about who have suffered from substance abuse. Wow. And so, yeah, I think you're able to, as you know, you try to be as objective as possible in the work that you do, but you, I would imagine you sort of have that personal touch as well,

[00:34:01] especially probably the loved ones of those that have, have gone through that experience. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, I know what it's like when they're talking about like, yeah, I was doubled over in pain. It's the worst thing that you could ever imagine. I'm like, I was on the other side. Yeah. Yeah. So then let's talk about habitat from humanity to building a very different type of habitat with a different type of humanity. Let's talk about survivor. Yeah. What brought you out here? So I, you know, was looking for a way to make money because my mom was really stressed,

[00:34:31] really, really stressed about money. So much so that she didn't want to attend like happy family gatherings because she didn't, she wasn't in the mood. She was stressed because my parents are political asylees and forced to immigrate to the U S. Wow. Yeah. But anyway, well, to supplement that, I was looking for a way to make money, but also I love the show. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say there are easier ways to make money. There are easier ways to make money for sure. But I mean, you factor that in the, you know,

[00:35:00] the necessity to make some money, but then also my love for adventure and love for the show and the way that this game is, so wait, can I cuss? Please. It's so fucking crazy. It's like both like exactly like real life and exactly, and like real life amplified, like times 101. Uh huh. Like in real life, if you don't have connections, you're not going to get anywhere. And I don't just mean career wise. I mean,

[00:35:28] in terms of like satisfying your soul and like finding meaning, right? It's all about connections. And it's like that on the Island, but also out here, the name of the game is deception. And I don't lie at all in real life. Like at all, like that shit lowers your energy so much. I like made a rule to not even try to white lie, but out here it's the exact opposite. So I'm, I'm so fascinated by this game and the ways that it is so much like my normal life and exactly opposite.

[00:35:56] And like nothing that I could ever experience other than coming out here and playing it. And I've done a lot of crazy stuff in my life, uh, but not for a while. I mean, I went, I went to grad school. I, you know, started setting down roots in Philly and it's really been a while since I've gone out there, done something that's scary and challenged myself. And that's another reason why I'm out here is because I feel like, you know, unlike my parents, I don't have a communist regime coming after me. I've never faced incarceration.

[00:36:25] I don't, not facing any like oppression from the government. And I, you know, I want to be pushed to see what my limits are. Interesting. Yeah. To be able to explore a new side of yourself, especially someone who probably felt like there was a routine, right? That you were getting settled into lovingly. So sometimes it's always good to shake things up a little bit. You need to shake it up. I need to shake it up. I give you that appreciation as well for the routine that you're having when you come back to Philly. So you talk about having this fascination for the game. How long back does that stem? What's your history with watching the show?

[00:36:55] My history with the, with watching the show is not as long as some people's, but it started during COVID. Okay. I started watching her in COVID and I mean quite literally better late than never. So yeah, exactly. Exactly. And I can't say that, you know, I don't really watch TV, but when I am watching TV, it's survivor because I feel like I want to be living my life out there. Yeah. Not in front of a screen. And so, yeah, I'm not ashamed to say that I'm not out there watching TV all the time, but when it, when I am watching TV,

[00:37:24] it's survivor. Um, and initially what I loved about the show was, um, well, what made me think that I could do it was I was watching all the water challenges and heroes versus villains. And I thought to myself, you know what? Like, what are these people? They're like choking out there, you know, like I feel like I could do so much better. And I love this idea of like, yeah, some of the greatest players in survivor history, God, they're terrible swimmers. Yeah. They're terrible swimmers. They're amazing strategists,

[00:37:54] but with swimming, like, I, yeah, with swimming, I feel like I could beat them. And so that was initially what sparked my, I guess, interest in, it's not what sparked it, but it made me think, you know, maybe I could do it. And then as I watched more of the show, I realized it's about reading people as much as it is about getting people to trust you. And I'm really good at both. So then looking back through survivor history, albeit ones that you've watched recently,

[00:38:22] give me one winner and one non-winner who you identify with the most personally or strategically. I really identify with Ben. Ben? Ben from last season or Ben Drebergen? No, Ben Cowboy Hat. Oh, Cowboy Hat. Yeah. Ben Drebergen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ben Drebergen? Drebergen. Ben Drebergen. Okay. Yeah. Um, I really identify with him because he was just always on.

[00:38:48] Like he had this fierce desire to win at all costs. And I feel like that it's what I'm going to be like when I'm out there. Is that just like, yeah, I'm going to be sleeping, but like, am I really sleeping or am I like dreaming of strategies? And also, um, I'm hoping that I get to play like him in that I am a spy. Oh, interesting. I want to do, I want to do some espionage. Hmm. Yeah. What about a non-winner?

[00:39:18] A non-winner. Um, hmm. Who do I really like or identify with as a non-winner? Caleb's time was cut way too short. Hmm. But I feel like I would be someone like him on the island where everybody would just be like, damn, she's kind of like friends with everybody. Because I, I feel like that's one of my powers is that I can turn even enemies into friends. Just give me long enough. What is that? Is that power persuasion? Is it charm?

[00:39:48] I think it's honestly killing it with kindness and persistence, persistently like showing love and being kind so that whatever this person's got going on with them, they realize that like, oh, you know what? She did remind me of somebody that I hated, but actually she's really different and, uh, she's nothing like what I expected and I'm, I'm down to give her a chance. Hmm. So if I were to ask you your biggest piece of kryptonite in contrast to your superpower, what would it be? I think my kryptonite with this game is,

[00:40:17] is also my strength. My strength and my weakness are, are one in the same. It's that I play a really good social game and that is going to be, people are going to smell that like from a mile away. Yeah. Is that the saying? Smell it from a mile away? I think you can do any, any sense from a mile away, you know? Yeah. As long as you're not tasting it from a mile away. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That would be maybe if you were afflicted by COVID still, like at the opposite of COVID. Yeah. Interesting. Well, talk to me about that because obviously you have done so many things that have been to,

[00:40:45] to benefit other people and that does work to obviously a certain extent in Survivor, but do you have that individualism as well to be like, listen, I love you, but I got to cut you if it's the difference between me and a million dollars. Yeah. Yeah. Um, that's something that I've been working on for maybe about like four or five years. Wow. Which is learning how to say no to other people so that I can say yes to myself. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Because yeah, I mean, both my parents are like pretty much like my dad's a political martyr. My mom is the sole breadwinner for our family.

[00:41:13] They're both putting themselves last. And of course, that's how I grew up thinking that like, it's good to eat last. That's what you should do. Um, but I've done things for people that, you know, because I didn't want to hurt their feelings. For example, this one girl in Morocco, I love her so much. She welcomed me into her family, but I spent like $3,000, uh, helping her with an illegal abortion.

[00:41:41] And I only had like $9,000 out for myself traveling. And by the end of that, I feel like I kind of became like her like protector and like her, her bank and everything all rolled in one. And it really tarnished our relationship. And I realized like, you know what, Mary, you can't, you can't give endlessly. Um, you have to learn to give to yourself as well. And so I've been trying to, yeah, put myself first when I can in real life for a while now.

[00:42:09] And I feel like this experience is going to be the ultimate test. You want, yeah, you want to open doors for other people, but you don't want to be the doormat. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And you know, I want to open doors, but I also want to learn how to shut them too. And just be like, you know what? This is my room. This is my space. Sorry. You can't come in because I need to be in here if I want to win a million. What's your favorite moment in survivor history? Oh my gosh. Um, my favorite moment in survivor history. What the heck? That is a crazy question. I know there's a lot to pick from.

[00:42:39] Yeah. do I get time to think? You can take as much time as you can. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Um,

[00:43:16] this was wild when, when Denise got Sandra out. Oh, that was fucking crazy. The chance to stay and play the game. She was like, I'm good. Yeah. I don't have anything to prove. I am the queen and I know my worth and I'm going to leave this game for people for, for, for my predecessors to pick up. Yeah.

[00:43:45] The whole thing was just crazy. I mean, like Sandra had, I feel like an uncharacteristic moment of weakness in which she led with her heart rather than her head. And Denise just snuck in there and just decimated her like that. Um, yeah, for, for, for, for Sandra to be so uncharacteristically emotional for Denise to sneak in at the perfect moment. And then for Sandra to just so gracefully accept defeat. Yeah.

[00:44:15] I think that was one of the best moments, greatest moments on survivor. What's one life experience you feel has prepared you the most for this experience? I think volunteering at a crisis hotline where 25% of the calls were suicide related. Wow. Really prepared me because you have to make connections like that. And it's not, sorry, it's not connections. It's trust. You have to get someone to trust you within moments of speaking to them for the first time. Um,

[00:44:44] and you also never know what's going to happen, what call you're going to get. You don't know if somebody has already spot, like swallowed two bottles of, um, what's that thing that people, uh, Benadryl, Benadryl. Benadryl.

[00:45:14] You have to be able to pivot and embrace chaos. Um, and yeah, you, yeah, I think, I think, I think that, that helps keep me grounded. Well, I think there's also this idea of, of kind of handling people that are in a state of emotional turmoil. Yeah. Right. Where their, their feelings are winning out perhaps over logic. And that is such a thing in survivor with the deprivational elements, with personal emotions involved too. Yes. Yeah, definitely.

[00:45:42] I'm already imagining myself talking an Alliance member off the cliff and being like, we don't need to do that. Yeah, exactly. We can wait. Revenge is best curve served cold. You wrote in your bio, you have a hunger for control. I need to hear more about this. Yeah. So that's also something that I've been working on as well, because overgiving is linked to a desire for control, a hunger for control. When you give and when you overgive, it is, or when I would do it,

[00:46:12] it was an unconscious attempt to assert control. Because when you give, when you're the hand that feeds, you are in power. And I feel like, I don't know. I mean, I grew up in an environment where that control from my parents was necessary. They were in a foreign land. They didn't have time to learn the language, customs, cultures, everything was different. And so I was able to learn, like, how to keep things under control. Yeah.

[00:46:42] But because I realized that this control was kind of, you know, making me feel safe, but it wasn't actually setting me free. I decided to try to learn how to overcome that. Yeah. So that was when I set out to hitchhike and backpack, not with like a big backpack, but like a really like normal size backpack around the Mediterranean with no plans at all.

[00:47:07] I got so good at it that like some nights I'd be like hitchhiking and up in a city that I didn't intend to go to, where I didn't know anyone. My phone was on like 2%. And be like 8 p.m. And I didn't know where I was staying that night. So I got really good at just like going with the moment and like trusting that I was not going to die. That's my bottom line is I'm like, if I'm not going to die, I'm good. Yeah. Where did your parents immigrate from? You may ask. From China. My parents were involved in the 1989 Tiananmen Square demonstrations. They helped organize it.

[00:47:37] Oh my God. Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So my mom was in charge of the press and the paper that was circulating along the square. And my dad helped lead the hunger protests. They were the older intellectuals that were guiding the students and the student led movement. But because of their involvement, my mom was incarcerated for nine months. And my dad, there was a nationwide search for him. He was on the most wanted list. There were pictures of his face in every major city.

[00:48:06] So after my mom was released, she escaped house arrest. And with the help of all kinds of people, like from religious people to sex workers to police, my mom and my dad were able to reunite. And from there, they escaped and were smuggled on a boat to Hong Kong, where they then received political asylum from the U.S. Wow. And so I do think it's probably, you know, it fostered this attitude in you, right? To like speak up for what's right from your perspective.

[00:48:36] Absolutely. And to not care what people think. And then also to make something out of my life. To really, to push myself and to try to squeeze every last drop out of life that I can. Yeah. And I feel like that's what I'm doing now. Well, to that point, let's talk about some of the other fruit on the tree as you were. Cause I'm sure you've been sitting around these past several days, you know, looking around at the people around you. Let's start on the positive side. Describe to me some people that for you, you pick up good vibe from best case scenario. You hit the beach on day one. This is a ride or die for you. Yeah.

[00:49:06] Um, so there is this taller black guy with kind of like a fro, not really, but like one, two inches or something like that, maybe one inch. And like every time the servers take his food, he says, thank you. And like either does like a praying motion or puts his hand on his heart. And I'm like, you know what? He seems like a very, very sweet boy. Um, and yeah, I would be, I would be down to play with him. And then who else? Um,

[00:49:35] there is the gay guy with the mustache. He just reminds me of one of my friends at home. And I just, I, yeah, I, he's, he's been really kind to me as well. Um, because even though we can't talk, I mean, you can feel people's energy. You can feel when they are happy to see, you or like find you amusing when you do something on accident, stuff like that. Um, and who else? I would also really like to work with this one.

[00:50:05] I think he's Asian. He's Tanner. He's maybe like mid thirties or something. Um, he and I, I think have in common that we have rich inner landscapes. Ooh, I love that term. Yeah. Because everyone out here is journaling to some capacity, but when you look at most people's journals, it's like the first three pages, they literally got a journal because they were like, well, I'm going to be out here, you know,

[00:50:34] like I want to process and learn and, and discover about things about myself. But me and this guy, our journals are almost done, which means like we actually journal in everyday life. That's something that I've been doing since I was 17. Wow. Almost every day. So I feel like if I were to work with someone like him, he'd be thoughtful. Um, and yeah, I think he would really think things through and I would appreciate that and Alliance partner. Yeah. Is that what you're looking for? That, that sort of ability to,

[00:51:03] to think things through from beginning to end. Is that like the main tenant in Alliance for you? The it's kind of, it's kind of an alignment with that. Um, it's also, it's also that I need someone who is going to lead with their head and not their heart. Okay. Because to not be that Sandra. Yeah. You can't be that Sandra. You can't like let that moment of weakness get you because yeah, you need to, you need to play with your heart. But I mean, I trust myself to play with the balance,

[00:51:33] but I would rather trust someone else who leads with their head. Yeah. Because I don't want someone blowing up our cover or, uh, spreading secrets because they're ticked off about someone. And then that, yeah, blowing up our entire game. So what about on the other side of things? Are there some bad energies you're picking up or anyone you can't get a read on? Um,

[00:51:57] I would say that it's hard for me to get a read on this one girl who sits in front of me. Um, in the, yeah, she's, yeah, she has like dark hair, a lot of hair. It's like really thick. I'm actually kind of jealous. I'm like, dang, I wish I had that much hair, but it's hard for me to read on her. Um, she reminds me of some people who I've met in my life who judge me for being loud or chaotic

[00:52:25] and thinking that I'm only one dimensional and that I don't have deeper thoughts. Interesting. Yeah. You talk about being judged. How do you think you'll be perceived out here? Because again, you are someone who works on a day to day basis about presenting yourself in a certain way. How much is that going to carry over to the beach? I think it's going to carry out on the beach for like one day. I think it's going to last one day. Me trying to ensure that people don't see,

[00:52:55] I guess, like all the sides of me. Um, there are lots of sides of me. So initially, you know, I think people's perceptions of me will change because there are so many sides of me. Initially they might think like, Oh, like she's pretty chaotic. Like she's pretty wild. Like she's loud. She'll eat, whatever she'll say, whatever. Um, but then as time goes on and I'm hoping that I'm going to be able to hide this,

[00:53:22] but I don't want them to see exactly how strategic I can be. It's necessary that they see that I am capable of strategy, but I don't want them to see the full scope of my strategy because then I feel like I would be too much of a threat. And one of my, one of my rules for this game is to for as long as I can, keep someone who's perceived to be weaker and perceived to be stronger around me. Okay. Interesting. So you're so what you want to be that, that middle of the sandwich. Yeah, absolutely. Because as soon as you're perceived as the ultimate threat,

[00:53:52] you've got, you got like five guns pointed at you. Everyone's out to get you. And then you don't want to be a liability either. I mean, I honestly, I really would respect someone who came out guns blazing the entire time beginning to end. Yeah. And still won. Yeah. Yeah. It's very true. Mad respect for that. I don't think that that's for me. That's not my style. But also may I add that other than a few rules that I have for myself, I don't even know how I'm going to play because one of my strengths is my adaptability. Yeah.

[00:54:22] The way that I play is going to depend on how everyone else around me plays. It's going to depend on the pace, on the energy and even the culture that the rest of us unconsciously co-create. Like if everybody is like down to like form these deep, true alliances, cool. I'm going to form tighter alliances. But if everybody is like, Hey, excuse me, like we're out here alone playing for ourselves. We might unite for this vote, but that's all. Then I'm going to be the best lone wolf that there ever was on this island.

[00:54:51] So for me, a lot hinges upon what I see happening around me. I'm more of like a sit back and observe and then pounce, which doesn't mean that I can't go in for the kill. It just means that I'm not going in for the kill. The moment I step out on the beach. You talk about pouncing. I mean, let's talk about some things you may be able to hold in your paws to help the pounce the new era. The DNA of it is idols, advantages, journeys. How much do you plan on incorporating that into your game? I plan on incorporating it into my game. I can't say how much,

[00:55:20] because it depends on whether or not you can even find them. But for example, I know that, and people might not like me for this, but if I do find an advantage or, uh, beware advantage right before the day of tribal council, or like right before I'm going, I'm probably going to take it and like hide it in another spot that only I know. Cause I'm not going to fucking make, give myself a heart attack and give myself only 10 minutes to like complete a task that requires at least 20.

[00:55:47] So I'm going to use those things for sure. Like the beware advantage, but on my own terms and then idols. Oh my God. I, I love the new era, but I also love the old era where people were able to like come out and bang, use like two idols and just like completely turn the game on its head. Yeah. I feel like people don't do that anymore. I mean, people literally go home with idols instead of quite a few do lately. Yeah, exactly. So I want to be able to,

[00:56:15] to display that kind of expertise with idols. So on that note of recent behavior, I imagine that as you knew you were coming out here, you had one eye on seasons like 45, 46 and looking for some takeaways to bring into your own game. What are some of those takeaways? One of the takeaways that I brought that I want to bring with me is, is to be really beware of the beware advantage and to give myself enough time to accomplish the task that it is asking. Yeah.

[00:56:45] Which requires hiding it. If I do find it right before tribal council. Um, and something else is that, um, when the merge has been announced and everybody is to pack up their things and they have 10 minutes to all go to the same Island, I'm going to keep my eye out for everybody because I don't want someone pulling a Hunter and using that time to find something right before they leave the Island. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you talk about this, this, you know, hunger for control.

[00:57:14] And I noticed you wrote in your bio that you like fully produce your own music. You write the lyrics, you perform it, you edit it. Yeah. Yeah. It talks to me about this passion of yours. Oh, well actually I don't fully produce it. I find the beats on YouTube, but, yeah, I had to find them, you know, um, other than that. Yeah. I, I write lyrics and I sing and, um, I do the engineering myself. That's a new thing. Um, I've always loved singing. You can ask anyone in my life. Like I've always been a singer.

[00:57:42] My mom was classically trained in opera back in the day. Yeah. So I think I got some of it from her, but, um, what's your preferred style? I think it's a really high compliment, but people say that I sound like Erykah Badu. I'm just going to say more generally that it's like Neo soul. Like my Amy Winehouse is one of my biggest influences and Lana Del Rey. There we go. I'm a lot of girly, um, in terms of lyricism, but I would say that it's jazzy R and B and up recently, you know,

[00:58:12] most of the time it's about men who have done me dirty. Okay. So you're basically like a Taylor Swift version of maybe Whitehouse. Kind of, I kind of hate Taylor Swift, but that's fine. I'll accept it because I am writing about people that I've been with. That's interesting. Who I don't like. From your own job perspective, what's the cover story? What did you tell, you know, your clients or people you were working with about where'd you be? Cause I guess you could also use the out of like, Oh, I disappeared again to go to someplace like Morocco. Yeah, no, this is hilarious. Well,

[00:58:42] like, like I said, lying lowers your energy. So I didn't want to lie, um, and say something that wasn't true, but I am proud of myself for what I did come up with. People would be like, where are you going? And I was like, I would be like, um, you know what? I'm going to go take care of some business.

[00:58:58] It worked like a charm because the population that I work with, you know, props to them. A lot of them have side hustles that are kind of illegal. Like I've had clients before be telling me about like how much money they're making, like selling X, Y, Z thing. That's illegal.

[00:59:27] And I'm like writing in my notes and they're like, talking, talking. They're like, don't write that down. Off the record. Yeah. They're like, Oh, it's off the record. And so they understand what it's like to have to take care of business. My business is just a little bit different than theirs. Yeah. I imagine they're gonna be like, that's the business, you know, next spring. Yeah, exactly. What is your hottest survivor take? What would you say is your most controversial opinion about a player or a season or the show in general? Oh my God. I just thought about this earlier.

[00:59:54] My hot take is that Applebee's isn't that great. I've never, I mean, I can't say I've ever eaten there, but I've heard from friends that like have eaten there and like gotten sick and I'm sure I'll love it because it'll be food. That's the thing. It's from what I've seen and heard, it's very important a storm of like, all right, great. But yeah, you're not going to have a Liz-esque, I'm not. Reaction? Yeah. When, when they're like, it's Applebee's, I'm going to be like, okay, translate, it's food. Yeah. It's basic caloric consumption. Yeah.

[01:00:23] It's sustenance for me. I'm, yeah. My family and I, we didn't really have the money to go out and eat, so I can't really say that I'm that familiar with that many restaurants. Cause I just didn't go out to eat that much. Yeah. Let me describe a scenario for you. If you could bring a celebrity or a fictional character out as a loved one, for a loved one's visit, who would it be and why? You did say some, some names beforehand, but would you bring Lana Del Rey out there? Hmm. Let me think. Let me think. Let me think. Let me think.

[01:01:07] I would probably bring Amy Winehouse. Okay. So that she could just talk to me in her accent and be like, you got this babe. You got it. Don't worry. You're going to kill the competition. Um, and just like, I don't know. I feel like she's got a lot of, I love Amy. Yeah. I love Amy. Yeah. And you can put like a nice buff on that giant bee, beehive hairdo. She rocks so well. Yeah, exactly. Last thing I want to ask is, of course we know that Survivor 50s and the, you know, the front view mirror at this point, we know it's returnees.

[01:01:34] How are you going to make your mark on season 48 so that we're going to be having a conversation this time next year? Hmm. How am I going to make my mark? It's hard to say because I don't like to over promise and under deliver. What I can say though, is that I'm going to play hard and I'm going to play as myself. That's all I can guarantee. And if, you know, inshallah, the stars align and like the way that my personality is,

[01:02:02] which is very obsessive and easy going, um, out for the kill, but also very chill. Um, hopefully that meshes with the people around me, but I'm not going to be focused on doing things for my resume or like trying to get a callback for 50. I mean, I'm just going to play the game because what matters is right now. This is all we have. Yeah. I know Mary talked about over giving,

[01:02:28] but I really want to thank her for giving her time and especially her story to us today. And to her point, I am really intrigued to see how much those social skills from social work will carry over to the beach. And ultimately, if she'll be able to perfect a freestyle stroke, uh, quite literally or metaphorically to put even the best to shame. As we keep swimming through the survivor 48 preseason tomorrow,

[01:02:57] we will finish up the Vula tribe and the week as well with the final two interviews from the green tribe. I will be talking with say, and Stephanie again, make sure you don't miss a beat of it. We know survivor.com for the audio version of it. And Rob has a website.com slash YouTube for the video version of it. That's going to do it for today's episode of a preseason interviews. Tomorrow we end the week with say, and Stephanie until then,

[01:03:27] everybody take care. Bye-bye.