Survivor 48 Pre-Game Day 2: Joe Hunter & Shauhin Davari

[00:00:00] Hi everybody and welcome to RHAP Survivor 48 Pre-Season Interviews Day 2. My name is Mike Bloom and in case you missed the big to-do yesterday, we officially began our individual cast interviews with the players of Survivor 48. I had the pleasure of flying out to Fiji to talk with these contestants in the days before the game began and today you're going to

[00:00:27] hear my interviews with two members of the Loggi tribe in the form of Joe and Shahid. Of course, if you missed it, I had my interviews with Bianca and Eva yesterday and if you did miss it, make sure you don't miss it again. You can do so by going to WeKnowSurvivor.com to make sure you're subscribed to all the podcasts that are to come and you can always go to RobHasAwebsite.com slash YouTube

[00:00:53] where the video versions of these interviews should be available for your perusing pleasure. That said, let's get into it. We're going to charge into these interviews like this person would charge into a raging inferno because we are talking about a fire captain. We're talking about Joe Hunter. Joe is 45 years old, originally from Vacaville, California, currently lives in West Sacramento, California.

[00:01:19] And listen, Survivor has a long history of firefighters. We shall see if Joe will continue the legacy. Here's my interview with Joe. Well, give me your name, age and occupation. All right. My name is Joe Hunter. I'm 45 years old and I am a captain with the fire department. Okay. Interesting. Have you always been in the business of throwing yourself into the quite literal line of fire? So I've been doing that for about 18 years. Um, and you know,

[00:01:48] I really got into that after I did sports, I went to UCLA for football and track and field. And that was a great experience. And then really, I just wanted to have a really big impact on life. So then I've been doing that for 18 years now. It's so interesting. Is it something that you've kind of always had in the back of your head is like helping save others? Or was there a particular instance that you were like, I think I want to do this? You know, that's a great question. It really, what it came down to is unfortunately, I've had a lot of loss in my life. I'm so sorry. Right. Yeah. And, and, uh, what I realized is when it's all said and done and you think about

[00:02:17] athletics for me in the main point, um, you come and goes with the season you're in and you're out. And then that time is over. And typically it's at a young age when it comes to athletics. And I realized when it was all said and done, what I want my mark really to be, how do I want to have an impact on this world? I truly mean that. And I couldn't think of a better way when I would watch these individuals, you get to affect change in somebody's life almost every day. And so when it's all said and done, if I've affected one person's life in a positive way,

[00:02:45] that's all I could ask for. And so what was the process of sort of rising through the ranks to captain? Oh my goodness. So that, that took some time, you know, I didn't really promote. So about 16 years in, and it just really what it takes beyond just what it says on paper, which is a written test. And you have to go through a series of obstacles to get the actual title. Really what it is, is a lifestyle. It's just a way of engaging in the job, trying to make yourself hard to kill. And that way of just constantly training, constantly evolving, constantly adapting to

[00:03:13] the new things that could take your life or someone you care about, and then applying that to the job. And then when you're ready, you'll know, and then you got to take that test and move forward to help the department. And I'm sure it also now comes with a bit of leadership skills as well, which, I mean, obviously, you know, you're making decisions in the moment to save lives and save your own life, but it's also probably a bit different when then you're also looking over a whole squadron of people. It does. It affects it dramatically when you think about the responsibility of others next to you, but it's also about their family. I mean, you want to make sure that someone goes home

[00:03:41] peacefully, but it's also that mental and emotional stability. You want to provide that and the growth of them as a person. So it's not just about bringing them home physically. It's about making sure when they go home, they're going to be the best version of them and trying to lead them basically on and off the job. So then what brings you from putting out fires to making them at the final four, if you will? Why Survivor for you? Survivor for me really came about from my sister. Unfortunately, I lost my sister to domestic

[00:04:07] violence a couple of years ago, and she really was the driving force in this. She watched from the first season of Survivor. Wow. And she actually wanted us to both try out for this. And to be honest, I didn't think we could. And I kind of just brushed it off and said, there's no way we could. And unfortunately, we lost her pretty quickly. And I look back on that and it took me years to really recover from that. And I said, you know what I'm going to do for my sister is this is something she always wanted

[00:04:33] to do. I never had the courage to do it, but this part of the healing process, this is for Joanna. And you know, it's going to, I'm going to be Joanna's voice and that's her name. And I, I think she'd be proud so far. So that's incredible. So then she was obviously watching since the first season. Have you been as well? She dragged me into it, you know, and I didn't know what I was getting into. And at first it was such a different game from season one to now. And so I was very excited about the, how are these people going to behave almost a social experiment. And then I backed away from

[00:05:01] it for a little bit when she passed, because it was kind of the thing that her and I shared. Right. And then kind of just getting out of that bad place, I said, you know what I'm going to start doing? I'm going to start watching again. I'm going to start doing this for her. I'm going to start being a part of this culture again. And it was hard at first, because when you share a bond with somebody doing that, it's hard to kind of transition to a new phase of that. And so I just couldn't think of a better way to do that and honor her name is be out here and try this now. All right. Well,

[00:05:29] let's look back on survivor history. If you could give me one winner and one non-winner who you identify with the most personally, strategically, who would those be and why? I would say, it's a great question. Diggler, I would say as the person that the winner, right? Dittler. Gabler? Gabler. I'm sorry. Gabler. I'm like, Gabler. No, no, no, no. Sorry. Sorry. Gabler.

[00:05:58] I knew it. And the reason why I say that is he, an older player, I'm older, so I'm 45. He kind of struggled in the beginning, came back from that, played an outstanding game, I think in the second half, which is difficult to do, which is what I hope to do is be consistent with the ups and downs. And then his intelligence level. I mean, to be a surgeon, to be involved

[00:06:23] in the medical field, to have the background that he did, to be humble enough to also, he wasn't so off putting. I mean, that's a quite prestigious job to hold. And for him to do that and come on a winner, and then the way he handled it when he won, to donate the winnings, to be that selfless and not just say it as an act. And you could feel his emotion through the screen. I felt that he, he genuinely believed in that cause. I'm like, man, that is nobility at its finest. Then I would say the non-winner

[00:06:51] would be Cody. Cody. Okay. Yeah. You're all on a season 43. You know what I mean? And I, and I say that because, um, I was a little torn on that at first because you don't know how you respond to once you're in the situation. Yeah. But as I go back to all the seasons, there's a lot of players where I go, Ooh, like, believe it or not, even D recently, I thought, okay, there's elements of that where I go, man, I really respect a lot of these players. But when I think about them as a

[00:07:19] whole from what they presented, he seems like the guy that he was fun. He was loving. He seemed genuine. He built some genuine bonds. He seemed like he was a pretty loyal cat. And I thought, man, to take that is kind of what I want to play with, but also win, you know, that's kind of where I was at when I look at all the seasons. What's your favorite moment in survivor history? Ooh, another outstanding question. I would say

[00:07:49] one of the most poignant, I would say the most powerful moment for me, the outstanding moment. Okay. So I'm, I'm tying it off between two of them. Really? You could say both. You could say both. Okay. Um, I really want to, when it was heroes versus villains

[00:08:10] in that entire season, I want to say that in the very beginning, just the man, the, the, the combination of, of just true hate for each other and this kind of villain versus hero, I had never seen something unfold almost so naturally that was genuine between so many different players. And every time I watched,

[00:08:36] there was another soap opera within that. And that season specifically, because especially in the beginning, some of those challenges, I couldn't believe how physically demanding they were. They were breaking people's toes in the first challenge. Exactly. And, and I thought, wow. And he was going to be one of my top two also, but that, and then also a combination like that season is pretty epic. And then the Gen X because, because I, I empathize with that. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I've always

[00:09:04] battled that old generation versus new generation and then the see it play out and go, okay, well, let's see, have those discussions, have it outright. I thought that was, I was, it was intoxicating. It was intoxicating to me because it's a sensitive subject. And then when you put it in an environment like this, it's perfect amount of drama with suspense and then adversity. That's perfect, uh, advertisements for these seasons on Netflix, right? Like check them out

[00:09:30] right now, people. What would you say is one life experience that has prepared you the most for this? Suffice it to say, it seems like you've lived a life that has been so demanding physically, emotionally, mentally. Is there one experience in particular? You know, I would say losing my sister, but, but honestly, the biggest impact would be being a great dad. I think that having my kids and this is why I say that.

[00:09:57] I think that the difference between a good and a great player, people don't really analyze as much when they sit in this seat. And I think the main difference is a lot of people come into the game thinking about other players. How am I going to respond to these other players? This player will do this. This player is going to do that. What if I do this or this or this, but instead you really need to analyze yourself. You need to come into this game first, knowing your strengths,

[00:10:21] your weaknesses, more importantly. And what parenting does is exploit those weaknesses immediately. And you have to really work on that to be a better person, to be the best version for your kids. And in that process of becoming a great dad, which I think I am, I think it's made me a better person. It's that's focused on those weaknesses. So I can play this game strategically, intellectually and socially better than anybody else. So now when it comes to

[00:10:49] translating to a survivor family, are you going to be the on Island dad? Can a tiger change his stripes that much? No, absolutely not. And you know, Bruce has helped me with that significantly. Love you, Bruce. But I, I, I, you know, I've realized by watching enough seasons that the last thing you want to do is say that you're the dad. The last thing you want to do is bring up your age. I think the way that you do that is just like you would with kids, is that you just do that through action. You do that through knowing when to talk, knowing when to listen, knowing when

[00:11:18] to shut up, knowing when to act. And so that's, that's going to be my goal is to never be the dad, ever be the dad. That's target number one. Well, how do you think you're going to be perceived? Because obviously, you know, your physicality, I would say definitely precedes you. Is that something you're going to try to steer into? These are excellent questions, by the way. So, so I'm going to, you know, for you. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Um, you know, I look at it.

[00:11:43] Okay. So the reality of it is, I think that when it comes to how I'm going to be viewed, that is such a difficult question because it really starts here in this Ponderosa and this pregame. I think that first impressions are huge and I can't really say, but I've tried to do a really good job of being approachable just by demeanor. I think your demeanor without saying a word,

[00:12:10] you can come across as approachable. And I am really going to try to lean into the more aggressive athletic stance and challenges and significantly back off of that when it comes to gameplay, because I'm trying to recognize that not everybody comes from someone may have never played sports, but great at puzzles and vice versa. And so I really have to temper that side of it and really work on know when to use that and know when to sit back on it.

[00:12:37] What would you say is your biggest superpower and your biggest piece of kryptonite that you're bringing from your life, your personality into this game? You're crushing it. Okay. Okay. I would say my superhuman strength just from my life experience, from the job, from, you know, not getting much sleep, not eating, having to think in critical situations, having loss, going through a divorce, coming back from that. I would say

[00:13:03] my superhuman strength is truly my mental toughness. My mental toughness, I feel because I test it daily. I try to improve that daily. I feel that mental and physical toughness is my super strength. I really do. I think that people say that, but I've tested it. So I think that mentally, I'm going to be really strong coming into this game and my kryptonite. Oh, there's many things, my friend. There's many things. Well, I mean, you talk about know thyself.

[00:13:27] I would say my biggest kryptonite is I wear my emotions on my sleeve. People could say that's a good thing. But in this game, it can be a huge kryptonite because in the moment, my initial reaction might be one that's not pleasant. It might be either sadness, that's a weakness, or he might say this or are my facial expressions. Those emotions, if used in the right way are great, but most of the time they're not and they just fly out of me and they don't normally come with words.

[00:13:57] It's just my body language and facial expressions. Anyone that knows me will tell you that. Yeah. So let's move from yourself to some of your competition because I'm sure you've been sitting here, you know, you're not able to talk, but I'm sure you're, you're getting reads, you're getting vibes. Let's start on the positive side of things. Who are some people you're getting good vibes from that you're saying, okay, best case scenario, we hit the beach day one. This is a ride or die. I can see. Ooh, like initials or just, or just do initials or you could do,

[00:14:23] describe them to me. Describe them. Okay. So good vibes, the muscular dude, bigger dude. I'm getting good vibes from him. The guy that has kind of the longer black hair, he has a lot of facial hair too. He has the full beard. Um, they seem like they're going to be some good cats that I can really, dig in with and just their vibe. And then, um, she has the blue top on. She looks a little older.

[00:14:47] Mm-hmm . I call it in my head. I'm calling her mama bear. Uh, she absolute good vibes from those three. And it's hard to describe. I feel that they are, um, good people. And just in terms of, and I know that sounds weird cause I've never spoken to them, which sounds crazy. I know, but it's a good gut. And then the Vot, the non vibe full sleeve hair, pulled back female, um, hard to read.

[00:15:16] Can you be stone cold or not? And then everyone else they're sitting solid neutral. They're doing a good job of keeping it in neutral. It's hard to say. What's the, the core tenant you value in an alliance partner? You need to go on Oprah. I mean, you're ready. You're ready with these type of questions. Okay. So I'm going to say the core piece in an alliance, honestly, it's twofold.

[00:15:43] And I know it's, you want mainly want one. I'm saying loyalty with being able to be still meaning trust in that loyalty that it sounds so simple, loyal, loyal, loyal, but loyalty only matters when it's tested. So the one thing I would want out of Alliance members go trust in the process. If we have a loyalty and we have an Alliance be still when it's hectic, just like at work,

[00:16:09] when it's chaos around us, be still fall back on what we believe, which is in each other. Yeah. Don't let the noise upset that be still. I'm intrigued. Speaking of your work, what's the story you fed about why you're going to be gone for a month plus? Oh man. So you know what? Honestly, at first I was like, man, what do you say? Cause you can't tell anybody. So then I had to get the powers to be and say, Hey, I got to let my boss boss know since everyone's going to see this.

[00:16:35] I hope that our fans that we got to get permission. Like, are you good with this? And my department did an excellent job. My chief and the deputy chief specifically, two of them did an excellent job of supporting me. And then I was able to, to get it covered with my own hours. So we have vacation. We have things that we can use out of our own time, own dime. And that's what I did. And thank goodness they supported it. And so I had to ask permission. Can I let these two know? And they signed it and they're good with it. So for now that's all that knows the new era,

[00:17:03] the DNA of it is all about idols, advantages, journeys. How much is that going to be kindling for your own personal fire? You know, how much are you going to incorporate that into your game? You know, again, when you think about this new generation and you're right, idols and where advantages and how much that is a factor now in this game, I'm going to use it to my advantage in a different way. Okay. I feel that has become as these seasons continue to build, it's almost becoming

[00:17:32] this point where if you watch now, some don't even want it. Some will come across the beware advantage. I don't even want it. Others will say when they get it, they're so concerned with now, do I tell anyone or do I not? Or before they would tell their alliance member or they would just pick somebody and go. Now it's almost become this monster in the corner of the room that no one wants to talk about. We know the new era is all about the monster. Right, exactly. And so my plan is this,

[00:17:57] is to face it head on by taking away the power of the idol based on the vibe of the room at the time with my players. So depending on the alliances that I have, instead of making it this massive thing that we all have to be afraid of or what's going to happen, just keep it simple. Use my mind and say, Hey, we have this or keep it to myself, but without overthinking it and overplaying it and making it this monster take away some of that power and go, I'm either going to use it

[00:18:25] to my advantage right now by telling people or not. And I'm going to swing for the fence. Keep it that simple and not, Oh my gosh, what do I do? Just go be calm, Joe. You got two options based on the Intel that I have in front of me strike and make the best decision you can. When it comes to the past couple of seasons of survivor, I feel like 45, 46 kind of took the new era in a different step. And I'm sure as you were finding out you were coming here, you were kind of keeping one eye on it being like, Oh, there are some takeaways I can incorporate into my game.

[00:18:51] What are some of those takeaways? Oh, I'll go back even farther, please. So I specifically went from 40 on, I started watching it religiously and a little insight here, a little trick that I did was so I specifically watched 41, 41, because it was the first season that did a behind the scenes. So you can actually see how many, what's the camera crew like there? What is it really going to be like? And they give you enough glimpses. I watched it over and over.

[00:19:18] And then what I did within these to incorporate this to my game now is I just started watching all the challenges back to back because when you watch them in a full season, you lose track. Right. But if you just watch them back to back challenges, you can start to compare and contrast things that might be reoccurrences, things that people did as successes, what worked, what didn't as these reoccurring challenges. And then the last piece was this, every tribal council,

[00:19:44] I just started going back to the seasons. I couldn't remember 40 and on the details. And I just watched the tribal councils without watching out any of the show. And what it did is it almost gave you a jury perspective because you forget, well, what happened to get us to this point at this particular jury? And so what it did was give me this rawness of the show without being biased. Hmm. And then it allowed me to analyze to think, okay, when I step foot on this beach, I'm going to take elements of each one of those pieces, all those challenges combined,

[00:20:14] because now I have them streaming together. I have all these tribals together, people's emotion. And then I take some of the random gameplay with fresh eyes and try to make a superhuman that's going to play this game. The tribal is so interesting because yeah, it's theater, right? Like you get to see how people act when they're about to blindside somebody. You're, you see how people react when they're about to be blindsided. So I imagine you probably see some common tells there, some common behaviors. Well, you know, what's very interesting when you say that is when you watch them back to back,

[00:20:42] sometimes you go into the tribal, which you don't realize when you're watching the entire series together, you've seen that episode. So you come into tribal with a loaded weapon. You kind of know all the drama, but the jury member doesn't, right? So when you just watch a tribal that you don't remember the season, what it does is it's, it's kind of almost shocking how some people behave and you go, wow, it really jumps off the page. And you go, wow, that was a little bit over and over reaction. Well, it makes sense when you've watched that entire season. Unless it's Q. Unless it's Q. Oh my gosh, Q, you're killing me. I love you, buddy, but you're killing me.

[00:21:12] And I, and I, I look at that and I go, okay, here's the biggest piece to that. When you look at some of those trends and everything that kind of takes place across all of those tribals, even though they are theater, one thing I scream at the TV, and this is what I'm trying to avoid is you want to have a insightful, thoughtful, really impactful statement when Jeff asks you a question. Yeah. But you don't want to say too much. Sometimes it's, it's good to say less. Mm-hmm.

[00:21:41] And sometimes certain people were right there and they just, it would have been fine. So my goal is to be. What is your hottest survivor take? What do you think is your most controversial opinion about a season, a player, the show in general? Ooh. Oh man, this is, okay. Do it, let her rip. Okay.

[00:22:05] So I look at, like, let's just take D, okay? And that season, I'm using this as an example, but it is nothing against the cast and crew. But when you watch those type of seasons, it's hard not to wonder. The controversial spin I have is, would that player have won without an Austin, without a Drew? Gotcha. Would they have won?

[00:22:30] Was their game that solid that without that particular player who, and a little bit of a romance, as an example of no hate, no hate here, but would that have translated to the same victory? Yeah. Now, again, you could say that with a lot of seasons, but my argument would be certain players really stand out. Boston Rob being one of them. His intellectual game and style of communication transcends a lot of those seasons. Yeah.

[00:22:59] I mean, going from voted out, what, like fourth his first time? Yeah. He made it to the merge, but didn't make it. He was the merge of Tory, but basically didn't make the jury. Didn't make the jury. Didn't make the jury. To well-known player. My argument to that is my controversial spin on this is, you know, out of the new generation, really sit back and look at how many of these players truly did their own game play or how much of this was those outside influences from others. I'm going to throw a weird scenario out to you. Give it to me.

[00:23:26] Give me a celebrity or a fictional character that you would want to bring out as a loved one for a loved one's visit. Ooh. Outstanding, my man. Thank you. The only rule is it can't be your family. Can't be my family. So a celebrity, someone famous, right? Okay. Or a fictional character. That I would want to bring on with me or a fictional character. Yeah. For a loved one's visit. Can stop by. You get to meet up. Stop by. Chill with Jeff. Chill with Jeff. Okay. Okay. Okay. Give me a second. No, please take your time. Okay.

[00:24:06] All right. Cause this will help my mom. This is for you, mom. I'm going to say George Clooney. And here's why. Here's what George does. Big Ocean Eleven's fan and all the oceans. He's like the wolf to me, right? Like I feel like if I brought him in, people would be like, damn, did you see who Joe brought in? Like, oh my gosh. He's a little bit of that social cache. Yeah. He knows George. And like, I, you know, I like call him George, you know, and, and it would be to settle me. And because I would want him, him and I think Jeff would be like, damn, that's George Clooney.

[00:24:34] Cause if I brought in a superhero, I was also thinking a superhero, but I'm like, damn, that might intimidate everybody. They're going to think now they're, they're threatened. Maybe Superman will come in and laser beam them. But I'm thinking with George, the girls might woo over him. Right. And they'd be like, damn, I can get closer to George, but I can close to Joe. Okay. And then the dudes are going to be like, yeah, George's pretty chill. Like no one hates George. Yeah. I feel like in his shrapnel, I'm going to win votes. This is one of the most unique, like, approaches I've heard to this question where it's sometimes

[00:25:03] like, oh, I want to meet this person or like, oh, they'll give me great advice. You're like, oh, my proximity to George Clooney is going to help my social standing in the game. Without a doubt to win. The last thing I want to ask is obviously it's survivor 50 on the horizon. We know it's returnees. Yeah. How are you going to make your mark on 48 so that we're going to be talking a year from now? Oh, my man. I mean, cheers to you for great questions. I feel like it's Brian Gumbel too. Like we got their intellectual questions. They're great. I can be the love child of Oprah. You know what I mean? Hey, let's do it.

[00:25:33] So, okay. Here's what my mark I think will honestly be. Is as a dad, a true dad in the fire service, the resume, right? That some have had. But be that player that I feel America goes, wow, this guy was the underdog in a lot of things he did. He had some things I can relate to. Everyone's been on the bottom side of that rock where they're like, I'm in a dark place.

[00:26:03] Or I'm going through a tough time. Or man, parenting is so difficult done right. And when people from all those walks of life, ex athletes all kind of see this in one person and go, and this guy seems like a good dude. He didn't have to stab everybody. He didn't have to play it this way. He brought back the fact that, you know what? This guy was damn near straight up the entire time. A loyal guy that got to the end with a core group. That's going to be my mark. There you go, folks.

[00:26:33] My interview with the incredibly complimentary Joe Hunter. Thank you so much, Joe. We're going to take a quick break. But when we come back, I get to talk with the man, the myth, the legend, the beard guy, Shaheen Daivari. All right. My next interview very excited about. This is Shaheen Daivari.

[00:26:58] Shaheen is 38 years old, originally from East Bay, California, currently resides in Costa Mesa, California. He is a debate professor. But in the Survivor fan community, and especially those who checked out my previous preseason interviews, he is probably most well known for being the male alternate last year on Survivor. Survivor 46. He was one of the most talked about people of the preseason from the people who would go

[00:27:28] on to play that season. Lots of comments in both the positive and maybe not so positive about the guy with the beard. There's something about him. Well, that beard is back to officially play a Survivor 48. It was a really interesting conversation with Shaheen about what he took away from that first trip to Fiji. Is he incorporating that at all into his second time out here now that he's going to officially hit the beach? Plenty of great stuff to get into. Here's my interview with Shaheen.

[00:27:58] Hello. Hello. How are you? Oh, I mean, I'm fantastic. My name is Shaheen Devari. I'm 37 years old right now. And I am a college professor and head speech and debate coach at Orange Coast College. So how did you find your way into that? Is teaching something you always wanted to do? Teaching something I've always done. I was actually a lawyer for a while. I actually went to law school and graduated, was practicing, and was teaching night classes,

[00:28:26] like for fun and coaching the team just because I used to compete on the team and really enjoyed it. And then they opened up a full-time position and I'd look back at my life and realize like when I was in high school, I was like training kids in soccer. And when I was in college, I was like tutoring. And then when I was in law school, I was a TA and a tutor and realized like, bro, you want to teach. Like that's the thing that lights you up. That's the thing that you're super excited about. On top of I had an opportunity to coach the speech and debate team. That speech and debate team changed my life. Wow.

[00:28:56] And the speech and debate absolutely changed who I was as a human being. So given the opportunity to go back and coach the very team that shaped who I am and give back to my speech and debate community, give back to like the school that helped me figure out who I was, it's pretty awesome. You know, I have an older brother who's 10 years older than me and I was very, very fortunate. I have the world's best older brother. Yeah. And so for my whole life, I had someone being like, oh, don't do that. Do this. Like, how about adjust this?

[00:29:25] Like, okay, you want to do that? This is how you do that. And okay, cool. This job allows me to be my older brother, my hero for a bunch of people. And so that's why I took my job. What was it about speech and debate in particular that changed your life to your point? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, certainly trained me how to think critically about the world. Like it taught me how to see the other side and how changing your mind is actually a good thing that I think, especially right now, people like to be set in their ways and changing your

[00:29:55] mind is like seen as a bad thing. And no, man, changing your mind based on the evidence that becomes available to you. That's a beautiful thing. And, and on top of that, I also like coach an acting event. Like a lot of what I do is coaching acting. And that's not what people think of when they think of speech and debate, but it's a full, like third of what we do. It feels a little performative. Yeah. It's a little bit of like the, the, there are performances, monologues, poetry, prose, like these are actual performances that I coach as well. And I really enjoy performance.

[00:30:22] Like that's something that I did a ton of in high school and I am performative in nature. And so I love my job and I have the best job in the world. I'm very lucky. Well, let's talk about what brought you out to the great debate stage that is a survivor. Survivor. Cause I mean, you mentioned it before. Let's talk about your journey, including a time we may have talked beforehand. Um, what brought me out here? Let's see. Um, I'm out here for my community and I'm out here for my mom for sure.

[00:30:49] That's one of the reasons, the main reason I'm out here is cause, uh, I fell in love with the show and then got my mom obsessed with the show and like through a vacation that was a survivor themed vacation where 12 people came, not just family, but friends. We all played survivor. I played Jeff and over like seven days we had challenges, two or three challenges a day. We had tribals and all of that shit. And my mom won the whole thing. Wow. Yeah, dude.

[00:31:18] And it was like insane obsessed. Like, and this was after I got my mom obsessed with the show. She watched all 40 seasons. She lost a bet to me. And so she had to watch every single episode. Uh, that's a hell of a bet to lose. Yeah. If I lost, I would have had to send her on a trip around the world. So the stakes were huge. I mean, you could just put her on amazing race. Yes. Well, that would be next for us. That'd be lovely. Jesse, give me a call. Uh, me and my mom on amazing race. Could you imagine? Uh, anyway, my mom, um, fell in love with the show because it's a, it's a show about social dynamics.

[00:31:48] My mom was a hairstylist for 40 years, sat behind a chair. And as you know, hairstylists do very well on this show. Jam Jam Kenzie, like they tend to do really well because they have to understand all different types of people. Right. And my mom came here, didn't speak the language, had to learn the language, sat behind a chair for 40 years and sacrifice her body so that I could have a better life. Her hands don't work super well. She's had three back surgeries. Wow.

[00:32:15] And so when she won our family survivor, I made her a promise. I said, I promise you I'm going to go on that show and I promise you I'm going to win. And so now I get to make good on my promise. Wow. So what was your history with watching the show? So I, I was, I watched the finale the very first season. Of course. You were one of the 50 million. Right. Yeah. I watched the finale. I didn't really watch anything else again until February, like 22nd, 2020.

[00:32:43] The week before everything shut down, I was in Northern California visiting my friends and we were like, Hey man, this pandemic thing is serious. Yeah. So we should probably just hang out in the house. And he had just finished season 18. Oh. And I was like, dude, you're watching survivor. That's just still on the air through on season 19. I see Russell hands come on television and there is not a more hateable person on planet earth and nothing will light my fire. Like a rival. Yeah.

[00:33:11] Like a villain that like, I just want to see him get what's coming to him. And is there a better like ending to a season than watching Russell get what's coming to him for that many episodes that Eric's monologue at the end that like seals the deal for Natalie that had me hooked. And so I then watched every single season. I've watched every episode. I've watched them multiple times. I got obsessed with the show, got my family obsessed with the show.

[00:33:36] And now I have a survivor fantasy league with like 40 people that I run my own, my own rules. Okay. Um, how's this going to work for 48? Yeah. Uh, the draft's going to be a little weird. They can all pick the same people. And, um, the, by the way, just to plug my league real quick, it is better than every other league because most other leagues it's done by week four. Someone on your tribe goes home and you're screwed and the winner pick is done. And like, you're done. No, no, no.

[00:34:01] You get four, you get to add one at the merge, but the key is the points you gain the last three weeks become the amount you can wager Jeopardy style on the ranking. Ooh. So everybody's in it all the way to the very end. It makes it an interesting league and it tests actual survivor knowledge. Right. It's not just you pick it at the beginning and you tune out the rest of the season. Based on some nonsense, useless pregame interview. Like that's saying is the camera a little bit more. No offense. No, none taken.

[00:34:29] But like it's, you know, it's, it's a cooler way to, I think, play that survivor game that we all love. And so what comes with that is every Wednesday night, I got 20 people that come over to my house or my brother's house or my friend Jimmy's house. And we all watch survivor together. It's the thing that brings my community together. And, uh, it's cool, man. We make food and we hang out and we shoot the shit and then we throw on the show. And if it's not survivor night, it's movie night. So it's awesome, man. It's I'm very, very blessed with my community. It's awesome.

[00:34:58] The probsty, the probsty community. I have to shout out. Is the probsty like an award? The probsty is the trophy. We have a massive, I mean, the trophy is like this big. And if you win, you get your name on the trophy. Does Jeff know about the probsty? I don't think so. I mean, you should. I'm going to have to tell him. You're going to have to see if you can get like a little, you know how they have the bowler. You need like a little engraved golden probes on top of it. It would be awesome. Yes. So looking back through survivor, give me one winner and one non-winner who you identify with the most.

[00:35:23] Um, winner that I identify with the most from like a gameplay standpoint or personality, whatever you want to do. Like, okay, look, Adam Klein's love of his mother is something that I certainly understand. Amazing. That is, I love my mom in the way that like he for sure loved his mom. Yeah. So I definitely identify with him from that standpoint, but from like a gameplay standpoint, Jam Jam is probably the person that I identify with the most. You have the beard to match. Exactly. And like a dude who can't hide.

[00:35:53] I can't fucking hide. There's no way. There's nowhere I'm going. I can't, I can't hide. So he couldn't hide and he figured out a way. And so I studied his gameplay a lot. Just like, okay, cool. Who am I going to play with? Non-winner. I think I said this last year, but I think Jonathan Penner is probably the person that I identify with the most as like a non-winner just because he was viewed with a level of skepticism that didn't befit what was earned. He was viewed as like a non-trustworthy when he was arguably the most trustworthy person out there.

[00:36:20] He was saying things like, no, I'm not going to do a final three with you because if I do that, then someone else is going to hear that. And then I'm screwed and I'm not going to lie to everybody. I'm going to tell you the truth. And that's what cost him his game. And I think that that happens to me sometimes that instead of telling the lie that everybody tells, I just say, okay, wait, wait, wait, no, I'm going to tell my truth and hopefully explain it enough and serve it to you in such a way that you don't hate me for it. Yeah. So you wrote in your bio as well that you want to be kind of this penner with a new era twist.

[00:36:50] What does that involve? Because like you said, is the new era gameplay something that might not allow that sort of frank honesty? Yeah, I think that for, I went back and did an analysis of all of Penner's seasons right before I came out here. Wow. So the thing that I think Penner did that I have to avoid, and it's definitely a tendency of mine is when given any opportunity to drive, he drives. Yeah. Like, and even in opportunities where he didn't have an opportunity to drive, he couldn't help himself, but he had to drive anyway.

[00:37:19] Uh, I do that sometimes I'm a logic bully. I know that, that I know if I know the right call, sometimes it's not going to be a cause it just drives me nuts. The person won't agree. And what that ends up leading to is someone's like a soft agreement, which is like someone being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And then turning around and being like, dude, screw this guy. I'm out of here. Yeah. Um, and that is definitely what happened to him as well. And I need to avoid that fate by being more Socratic, asking people to get there, to get

[00:37:48] them there instead of telling people to get them there. Yeah. So you mentioned last year, let's, let's bring it up. Let's pick cards up. Cause people might not necessarily know. Yeah. Talk about what happened last year and especially what the past year has been for you as well. Yeah. Yeah. So last year, obviously as the alternate, like you're in a very weird space because you're doing something that you desperately want to do and certainly wouldn't pass up the opportunity. But you also, I knew seeing the cast of 46, seeing those, those eight dudes, none of those dudes are dropping out.

[00:38:21] But I have six days or five days, I'm going to play my ass off. I'm going to play as hard as I can. And so I absolutely did. You go back and watch the pregame interviews from 46 and you see, they're all like, he's smiling too much. He's staring at me. And it's like, yeah, man, I wanted you to talk about me. And I got exactly what I wanted. Did I think that that many of them would talk about me? No. I thought I did. You were the talk of the town. Yeah. That's crazy. That, that I did not see coming.

[00:38:49] That was, but also tells me something. I don't need to do that much. And I'm still going to be talked about. If I did nothing, I still would have been talked about at least a little bit, I think. Yeah. But I did a lot. And so that ended up leading to a little bit more of an overcorrection. And yo, that's literally the story of my life. I am Icarus. I fly too close to the sun. I know that that is my issue that, you know, and I overcorrect and course correct. Like if I'm driving down the highway and I hit a little bump, I'm going the other bump too.

[00:39:19] That's the way that I've lived my life. And that's benefited me in some ways because I'm very willing to listen to the feedback. I am very in tune. And that is, I think the thing that surprises people about me is when they do come to me with feedback, sometimes they expect a negative response. And my response is always, oh, okay. Like what did I do wrong? How do I fix it? I won't do that anymore. And I learn real fast. Yeah. So then the past year, I mean, it sounds like from your case, it was like a little bit

[00:39:48] of like, ah, you know what? I don't need to do as much, but was there anything that, because there, there is a process obviously to emotionally ramping yourself up to, to come here and do this. You kind of had to ramp yourself down and then ramp yourself back up again. What does that process been like? Yeah. I just talked about this a second ago, but like, uh, there is a, um, a pressure or not a pressure, but there's a reaction that you have to the first time you sit down in a confessional, a reaction.

[00:40:17] The first time that you sit down, there's a, there's an amp-ness that happens. And for some people that's good. And for some people that's bad for me, I need the amp in order to perform at my best. You're playing electric. Yeah. I have to, I have to be like on that razor's edge. And so yesterday was a little off for me. I just felt a little off because I'd been there before. I knew kind of what to expect. And so for me that, that necessarily didn't, didn't necessarily help me so much, obviously knowing like the boat ride is going to suck and knowing like, okay, cool.

[00:40:47] I need, I don't need to do as much. I'm still going to be noticed. There's only 20 people here. So you're going to get noticed. And they didn't cast a single other beard. They couldn't give me one other beard to hide behind. They said, if you paid attention to any pregame press from last, from 46, you're going to know this is the dude because he's the only dude with a beard that's out here. And he wasn't on 47. So did you think about ever shaving? I considered it. I considered it for a while, but if I can't get past that, I don't, I'm not going to win the title anyway. That's true.

[00:41:15] So if I can't get past, oh, you were the alternate last time. It's like, yeah, man. Okay. Yeah. I was the alternate last. I'm not going to hide it. No, that's not useful. It's just not that big a deal. And I think after everybody sits through this, they'll realize like having done this before, not that big a deal. What matters more to their game is my personality and I can help them, man. I know, I know that I can be a really good asset to like a solid alliance. Well, on that note. Yeah. From it comes from your personality, from your life.

[00:41:43] Give me your biggest superpower and your biggest piece of kryptonite you plan to bring into the game. Kryptonite. I talked about already. Right. The fact that I'm a logic bully, that's certainly my kryptonite. I tend to push a little too hard and then get like a weak agreement and that's it. As far as my biggest strength, I think I'm a surprise. I'm a surprising level of empathy, of empathetic. Mm. I think that people are surprised that I recognize like where they're coming from and their experience in a way that they would not have expected.

[00:42:12] I can put myself in somebody else's emotional shoes very easily. And that helps me in my job. Like I understand my students and where they're coming from and having that empathetic approach is also something that was new. That's something that happened like kind of after the pandemic, um, more understanding as a professor, more willing to go out of my way for my students. Mm. Um, and so that helps me out here, man, being able to put myself in their shoes and understand like, okay, what are their motivations? Why are they really out here? Cause not everybody's out here to win. Yeah.

[00:42:41] Some people are out here to get famous. Some people are out here to flex on camera. Some people are out here for all kinds of different reasons. Some people are out here and play on 50. I'm out here to win the title of soul survivor. That's why I'm out here to take that title home. Well, I think the idea of speech and debate as well is there's this objectivity to it, right? That like you have the ability to see and plan things out from multiple perspectives. Yeah. Oh, they suggest this point. Here's the counterpoint. Yeah. So I feel like that's going to be so essential for sure in a game that's all about differing perspectives coming in and talking about their next modus operandi.

[00:43:10] I can make an argument for anything. Yeah. That's, that's the goal, right? Like that, that's one of the things that I try and teach my students is like, okay, yeah, not that you believe that, but can you make the good argument? What's the best argument for it? You know, I was stuck in, in my, I remember in my college class, uh, having to debate the merits of prop eight. I remember this in California. Oh, I remember prop eight. Yeah. It was gnarly. And I was on, and we're in a college class and it's going to be voted on. And so we're, we have to, I had to debate yes on prop eight, which was making gay marriage,

[00:43:39] uh, against the constitution of California. That's an unenviable position, especially for someone who's pro gay marriage and pro gays. And so light bulb, make all marriage illegal. Marriage as a whole should be illegal. Oh, okay, cool. That includes gay marriage. So figuring out, okay, cool. Having the state involved, making those types of arguments, being able to see even the bad, how do I make that a good thing? How do I get all the way around that bad and get to the good thing? That's going to be essential out here.

[00:44:07] How do I make myself, even if I'm a huge threat, how do I convince the person that I'm not the target, dude. Let me be the threat, but I'm not the target. The target and the threat. Those are two different things. Yeah. Q showed us that last season. Absolutely. What's your favorite moment in survivor history? What's that phase? What's that phase? I had one, but I'm not talking. I'm not saying that. Oh boy. Okay. It's just a silly one. I mean, silly ones are great. We love the silly moments. Yeah.

[00:44:35] I mean, Ozzy having the opportunity to bid on an item for 420. Yeah. Yeah. Ozzy being like 420 to the camera is an all time great moment. And then he's guzzling the soft serve right out of the machine. Yeah. That's awesome. That's an awesome moment in survivor history. I think before I knew there was a fire, fire challenge, this is a weird, awesome moment,

[00:45:01] but the upside down you, like before you knew that there was going to be a fire making challenge that saved Ben. Right. The upside down you is an all time greatest moment ever of just like, oh, here's the dude who had it. No one's had it closer than that. Yeah. And for all of it to just come crashing down. That's epic. All right. Well, shoes on the other foot now. Yeah. Let's have you talk about some preseason perceptions of your own. Yeah. Because again, this is a, you know, another round of block for you.

[00:45:30] So let's start with the positives who are described to me some people that you're picking up good vibes from best case scenario. Day one, you hit the beach, possible ride or dies. So I have a razor's edge people, which is like, hey, either this person has to be my ride or die or I need them gone. Yeah. And that is, uh, she's got blue eyes. She's going to hate me for this at some point, but she has like, uh, the tattooed sleeve that

[00:45:55] like the patch tattoos, the, um, and she has like, uh, three different crosses tattooed all over her body. Okay. She is suspect of me. I feel it from jump. I know people like her. They are suspect of me, but if I can get them on my side, they're my biggest advocates. They can call me on my nonsense. They can be my ride or die for sure. I need someone like that. Cause I have hair brained ideas, man. I have crazy.

[00:46:24] I have all kinds of different arguments that happen in my own head and I need someone to be the arbiter. I have a very low perception of threats against me. I think everybody wants to be my friend. So I want someone who I know isn't necessarily my bestie to be my bestie. Um, other than that, like the person that's on a razor's edge, like MZ, I think is her initials. I, uh, uh, shorter Asian girl. Who's like jacked like that girl. I would love for her to be my rider.

[00:46:53] I think she's a razor's edge for me too. Like someone who doesn't really like me, but if I got on her good side, I think we would ride forever. Um, and then like the dude who ate Tom Cruise, that guy, I want him on my team. What? Okay. This is an image that I need to describe to me. Mr. Captain America, the biggest dude. He's got the, he's got a giant, beautiful face for camera.

[00:47:14] He's for sure been in movies or on stage or something like that because this dude brought toothpicks out here after lunch so that when he does get his face seen, you know what I mean? Yeah. Not got anything in his teeth. He's like thinking in a way I think that is unlike anybody else out here. He is more cerebral than I think most people will give him credit. And so I would like to work with someone. I need a strategist. Yeah. And I know that I'm, that's not me.

[00:47:44] I'm an idea guy. I need someone that's going to give me the strategy. I'm a social player. I can make the strategy implemented. I can't, I'm not the brilliant strategist. I'm the idea guy. So then on the other side, cause it looks like you're willing to turn, you know, uh, make opportunities out of these people that you're a little suspect on. But is there anybody that you're just overall bad vibes from, or you can't get a good read on? Yeah. They're those are my bad vibes people, the people that I don't get a read on at all. Cause if I can't read you, that's a problem.

[00:48:13] I can read anybody. That's my skill set. And so this could all change. I could fall in love with a person very, but, um, the smallest person on the cast, she is, she's the shortest, smallest person on the cast. I have no read on her like zero black hair, no read on her whatsoever. Um, S B as well. The, I call her Santa Barbary because Santa Barbie, sorry.

[00:48:42] Cause she like is blonde hair. Okay. She's a painter. She's been painting out here the entire time. Interesting. Yeah. Like amazing paintings actually. I want one. Um, but yeah, I can't really get a good read on her, but who knows? Yeah. It's been, it's, it's, oh, I want, I, I love the rock. The rock is out here. He is a delight. Mm-hmm . I could just, he folded his shirt.

[00:49:08] A wet, like I just saw him fold a shirt and the way he did it was like, oh dude, he's the sweetest man ever. He was walking out of the bathroom at the, in the middle of the night and he like closed the door, which is like far away from where like we're sleeping. But like I was walking to the bathroom and the way he closed the door was like a father exiting his little girl's room after he kissed her on the forehead. Good night. You know what I mean? Like just so gentle. And for a guy that big, that buff, that strong to be that gentle, that juxtaposition.

[00:49:38] Oh my God. I love that guy. Yeah. So you wrote in your bio that you know you're perceived as brutish and aggressive. You are a secret softie. We talked about this. For sure. So is that something you're, you're going to try to curb immediately in terms of that perception? Or is it just sort of like, keep me around long enough and you'll see that other side. Yeah. I don't, I, in a game, if this game was, you know, a hundred days long, like, like in my real life, I just let people figure it out. Okay. And in my real life, like if you don't figure it out, it's a good litmus test so that you can screw off. I don't want anything to do with you.

[00:50:07] Can't happen out here. Yeah. And in situations where I have to, I just go right at it. I just talk about it. Yeah. That's my skillset. I could talk about it. And so I'll go right at it. If I feel that perception from somebody, I'll just talk to them about it. And this happened like, you know, someone's sitting across from me and I can tell that my energy is too much for them, that they are fidgeting and they're uncomfortable. Very easy. Turn my energy away from them. All of a sudden they calm down. They're chilling out. I'm good about that.

[00:50:36] And I have no problem getting right after it, talking right to them, going at them and being like, Hey, look, I, I get that you're uncomfortable. I promise all of this. It's not a big deal. It's just how I like to look. You'll be fine. I don't bite. You can, you can twirl the mustache if you want. Yeah. It's fine. Yeah, exactly. It's like, I'm not the mustache. Trilling on you control my mustache. You can throw my mustache for me, baby. It's all good. So you said that you were someone that was a bit more of a social player than a strategic

[00:51:03] player, but how much are you incorporating the idols, the advantages, the DNA of the new era into your game? Okay. This is maybe sacrilegious, but I do not want the idol. I don't want the advantages because I think people are sus of me already and adding that layer adding, I think I'm already going to be viewed as a threat. Adding that extra layer to that's, that makes me way too hot. Here's what I want.

[00:51:32] I want to know where they are. I want to know who has them. And one of the thoughts that I've had, and we'll see if I actually end up doing this is if I do see a beware advantage, I want to be aware of where it is and then watch and see who's going into that area and check. Yeah. And when it's gone, then I know who has it. And critically, I know if they come tell me now, I know, are they my alliance? Are they not in my alliance?

[00:52:00] Are they, especially if it's someone that's in my lines and they go and find it and then they don't come tell me, it's like, ah, okay, I know what's up. Yeah. Because I think for a, of a plain idol, you can hide that, keep that to yourself, but a beware advantage. No, you have to tell, you have to tell somebody because that costs your alliance a vote. Yeah. Right? Like you have to, and you have to do shit. It's like, you have to climb a ladder and then do the hokey pokey and turn around, like do all kinds of stuff. And so you need to tell your alliance about that.

[00:52:26] So that's, who knows once you get in there, but that's my plan for now. Yeah. So ordinarily I ask that 45 and 46 feel like a definitive step for the new era in a different direction. And again, I usually ask people, what were your main takeaways from those seasons that you incorporate into your gameplay? Again, you have a very unique POV. I'm sure you saw the sliding doors universe where you were a 46 cast member. Yes. Yeah. I definitely tried to put myself in their position.

[00:52:51] That was one thing that the alternate thing taught me is while watching, put myself in every single person's position. Interesting. Okay. One of the biggest takeaways that I had from 46 and 45, when you combine the two is look at the difference between 45 where rider dies were rider dies. Yeah. And how successful that was for the rider dies, even for like people like Drew and Julie,

[00:53:21] who didn't win ultimately, but they made it very, very far and they played a successful game in Austin all the way to the end and D your eventual winner. Yeah. Versus people who don't treat it like rider dies. Kenzie won. Respectfully, Kenzie won. But look at what happened to her rider dies. They got cut a lot earlier and in ways that were really savage because the meta in 46 was the first time. You're number one has to cut your number one. Yeah.

[00:53:50] I don't know who came up with that, but that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Why? Why do you have to cut your number one? No, you go to the end with your number one and you sit there and you make arguments as to who's better. Now, if you hear your number one's coming after you, okay, sure. Take your shot. I'm not. But this idea that you have to cut your number one, I don't get that at all. That's not how you should play. Look at D and Austin. They sat next to each other and they crushed it.

[00:54:16] And, you know, I think that's the way I think that's the way that I will play unless I get, you know, the knowledge that and this is this is why I want to play with someone who is socially bad. This is why I want to play with someone who's not socially great, who's a great strategist so that we're symbiotic in nature. I was about to say symbiotic. Yeah. So that we can talk to our individual games at the final.

[00:54:45] What is your survivor hot take? What's your most controversial opinion about the show or a player or a season? Yeah. So I gave a different one earlier. So I'm going to get a different one. There we go. We like variety. We like variety. Okay. I know that a lot of people, especially right now, because it's happened so often since season 35, they hate fire making. I love fire making. We just need to do it more. The fact that it's only once doesn't make any sense.

[00:55:12] Two people have to compete in fire when everybody should learn how to make fire. Huh? We need to do it more. You got to earn everything, right? That's the thing. You got to earn everything. Cool. That first juror spot is like, oh, you just get to be the first juror because you were in the group that like was second. No, man. Those two people that got voted out during that double tribal, they sit and make fire and the person who wins, they get to sit on the jury. They get to be the mayor of Ponderosa. That's interesting. Yeah. Okay, cool.

[00:55:39] Now we're using fire more throughout it because if fire is your life and the only way that fire is your life is if you win final four and your torch, it's not enough. Yeah. We need more. Give us more fire. I didn't practice every single day for how many weeks just on the off chance that I end up in the fourth and third spot where I have to, no, man, let's do this more. Make it part of a challenge. Make it the opening challenge too. Three times. Opening challenge, this, and then. Yeah. Survivor Gabon, their first individual immunity challenge was fire making. Exactly.

[00:56:09] And I think it would also be cool if it was like, I know this is taking it way, way crazy. No. But if it was like, hey, the fire making thing, it's not at tribal. Yeah. Ready? Go. Like, go. Go. Yeah. Go for it. Go, go get it. And the first person who makes fire out here, good luck. You win. Wow. That I'm into. Now we're making fire making a thing. And I think it'd be a cool story to tell too. You're walking around the jungle with them and they're trying to figure it out. And it's like, oh man, I expected to just have Flint in the whatever.

[00:56:39] It's like, no man, this might take a day, but good luck. Yeah. I mean, I quite literally hope that idea catches fire. I think it's an interesting, it's an interesting way to structure it. Yeah. Yeah. So of course, you know how I end these things. Yeah. You could bring a celebrity or a fictional character as a loved one. Do you remember who you said last year? I have, I cannot remember for the life of me. Honestly, neither can I. So we are, we get some blank slate here. Varys. Varys. From Game of Thrones. I mean. The spider. The man of secrets. The master of whispers. The master of secrets. Yeah, exactly. That's the dude you want.

[00:57:07] Talk about someone who was secretly controlling the best, the most crazy social game of all time. I want that dude because that dude will see the things that I cannot see. Yeah, absolutely. And he also was very. Venus. Venus. I'll take Venus out here. Yeah? Legitimately, yeah, yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, strategically dead on the entire season, right? Yeah. Didn't miss, strategically. Couldn't get anything done socially, but that's a mixture of her and the cast that she was on, right? A different cast and all of a sudden she might get some social footing. Yeah.

[00:57:37] I mean, this is literally what you were describing in your perfect alliance mate too, right? 100%. Like someone who doesn't have the social capital, but maybe has all that strategic capital to spend. Who knew the shot every single time. We're getting rid of Mariah? Why? Charlie. and then Charlie gets at the final and obviously played an incredible game. I'd love to have Venus out here. I'd love to have Emily Philippen out here. Yeah, last thing I want to ask officially. So you mentioned you are hoping... Or my mom, by the way. My mom is also... My mom is like that too. Very much so.

[00:58:05] High perceived social threat player. Understands who is against her and thinks it way too much and I have no clue. That's amazing. So the final thing I want to ask is I know that you said you're not thinking about 50 at this moment. You're playing for now. You're playing to win. But let's just say how are you going to make your mark this season so that we're going to be having conversation number three out here a year from now? Man. Did not see this question coming.

[00:58:35] Haven't thought... I'm a linear thinker, right? So I think one step at a time and I tend to be very present and enjoy my moment. You're not thinking fourth dimensionally. No. And I think that serves me really well because I'm not wasting time on all kinds of eventualities that aren't going to happen. I'm figuring out what's going on right now and I'm very, very present. So what's going to help me make my mark? Showing that that is a unique style of gameplay that is really successful out here. That moment by moment, bit by bit,

[00:59:05] being present is the key to winning Survivor. All right. Well, I'm glad we were present enough in the moment to watch you come back, man. Dude, I cannot tell you, man. I've been like... This... The conversation that we had last year obviously very different. Some things left out of this one that were in that one and I thought about that conversation a lot of times when I was back. It was like it meant a lot to me that I got to break down all of that shit and figure all of that out after a very intense emotional experience and I was very grateful

[00:59:35] the last time I was out here for sure just because I understood like, hey man, you can't be upset that you got 26,000 people. You're one of 20 that gets to even see any of this. One of 700 and some odd people that ever gets to be a part of seeing Fiji. Like if you turn... It's like it's just insane. It's wild. It's insane out here and yeah, just like overwhelming gratitude for both the talk we had last time and I don't know if my name coming up helped or hurt. I have no idea

[01:00:04] but whatever worked out, the Survivor Gods worked out in a way to put me back in this position. That's the thing. Everything happens for a reason. I'm going to enjoy every single second out here. I promise. I'm going to live it all up to the max for all the people that don't get to fucking play. I'm playing for y'all. I promise. I'm going to have a blast out here. There you have it, folks. The beard has spoken. Shaheen is finally getting his opportunity to play and I cannot wait for it to happen and I will also just say to tease a bit more

[01:00:33] history has a tendency to repeat itself and the idea that Shaheen is one of the most talked about people in the preseason is not just something exclusive to Survivor 46 but we will get into plenty of that as well as much more as our interviews roll on. Now we are taking the weekend off giving you all some time to take these couple days to rest and catch up on all of these fantastic interviews but as soon as the calendar

[01:01:02] turns to Monday I'll be back with my interviews with the last two members of the Loggie tribe in Star and Thomas and then the day after Rob and I will get together to give our thoughts about all six of these castaways overall and how we think they're going to mesh together as one tribe. Again, make sure you don't miss a second of it. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast at weknowsurvivor.com as well as the video versions of my interviews

[01:01:31] at robhasawebsite.com slash YouTube. That's going to do it for day two of our Survivor 48 preseason interviews. Thank you all so much for listening and for the support you have shown so far. I hope everyone has a wonderful and safe weekend and we'll be back on Monday to wrap up the Loggie tribe with my interviews with Star and Thomas. Until then everybody take care. Bye-bye.