Road to Reality | Forging Your Own Path with Omar Zaheer

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[00:02:03] Welcome to Road to Reality, a limited series where I, Helen Bechtel, go on a conversational journey with fellow survivor contestants about their real lives.

[00:02:18] In this 10-part series, we invite you to listen in on unscripted conversations that, crazy enough, aren't really about playing survivor,

[00:02:25] but about being a person who was on survivor.

[00:02:29] These are deep dive conversations, not into post-game strategy, but into the lives of contestants before and after survivor

[00:02:36] and the experiences that shaped them into who they are today.

[00:02:39] So sit back, relax, and join me as we take a ride down the road to reality.

[00:02:46] Welcome to Episode 10, the final episode of this limited series, Road to Reality.

[00:02:52] We have got a new school treat for you today from Survivor Season 42, our first veterinarian, our first Canadian, Omar Zahir.

[00:03:02] We catch up with Omar while he's just one year out, his season aired in the spring of 2022.

[00:03:08] We talk about where he sees himself along the path in comparison to those who have come before him on this podcast,

[00:03:14] what it's like in the near aftermath to be recognized by fans and interacting with the world while you're on national television.

[00:03:22] He became an exotic animal veterinarian in spite of familiar pressure to have a different career track, and he talks us through what that was like.

[00:03:32] Together, Omar and I worked through how being on survivor changed our relationships with our families

[00:03:37] and in general, how being on survivor helped Omar reflect on his own identity and life path

[00:03:43] and why it's so important to know who you are before playing survivor.

[00:03:48] I present to you the funny, empathetic, and shameless Omar Zahir.

[00:03:54] See, the reservation that I had was like, who would want to hear me? I was just on the show.

[00:04:01] So the fact that you feel otherwise is like it's nice.

[00:04:05] Yeah, I think the concept of the podcast so far in case it's just new school people listening today because you're here.

[00:04:16] The concept of the podcast so far has been the before, during, and after of the survivor journey

[00:04:25] and how that has played into people's life story.

[00:04:29] But one of the things that I feel like we've missed being able to tap into for people who've played three, five, ten years ago

[00:04:39] is what it feels like when you are in it.

[00:04:43] Yeah.

[00:04:44] And I'm curious, have you, because you have listened to a few episodes,

[00:04:50] when you hear some of the previous players talking about being in it, then being out of it,

[00:04:57] what has that experience been like for you as someone who just aired a year ago?

[00:05:02] Yeah, it's very interesting because I think that I'm at the cusp of coming out of it too.

[00:05:08] So like I can hear what, you know, players like PG and Kelly and Adam have said about

[00:05:16] and Gabby about feeling like they were really immersed in it and almost becomes part of your identity,

[00:05:22] like everything you think about, you're going to these parties to see all these old contestants

[00:05:27] and new contestants and watching the show live.

[00:05:29] People still sometimes recognize you and so you get pulled right back into it when you're falling out of it.

[00:05:35] The other day I was in a consultation and I was just going about my business talking to this person about their burn

[00:05:42] and they were like, wait a second, like she's like, I, because it was a recheck.

[00:05:48] So I'd already seen the burn, she came back, she's like, okay, so I thought I knew who you were,

[00:05:51] I looked it up and I don't, I do know who you are.

[00:05:54] Did you really meet Jim?

[00:05:55] I was like, whoa, like you're fully like back in it.

[00:05:59] And I think now is the time where I can kind of start to see it come through to the other side where,

[00:06:04] you know, there's a shift where for a period of time in your life,

[00:06:08] like survivors like almost a hundred percent or a good proportion of it,

[00:06:12] like maybe 90 to 95% while it's airing.

[00:06:14] And then I'm starting to see the percentage come down to now is from like 5, 10% of daily, every day life.

[00:06:22] But still then you have moments like this where you can come back into the community and be involved in a different way.

[00:06:26] And I really like that.

[00:06:28] And that's kind of something that her Gabby described where she can now be involved in the way that,

[00:06:31] ways that she wants to be involved and doesn't have to be involved in the way she doesn't want to be involved

[00:06:36] and can still be having an enriching experience, having it as part of your life, but not fully your life.

[00:06:41] And I think that I'm starting to see that, you know, happen.

[00:06:45] Maybe it's more than 10% right now is probably more like 30, 35%, but it's like, it's definitely coming down.

[00:06:50] Yeah, you can see the unraveling a little bit and why I also wanted to talk with somebody who is that close to,

[00:06:57] I mean, a year out still like you've, it's aired another season has now come out.

[00:07:02] I think there's some like breakage of the shell that happens when the next season comes out.

[00:07:07] Right, it starts to put more space just inevitably for, for some of us, I think it's a space of a bit jealousy.

[00:07:15] It's kind of like, there's a new, even though you aren't jealous because you just did, it's like,

[00:07:21] there's maybe, I don't have a younger sibling, but I wonder if it feels like having younger siblings come into the family where you're like,

[00:07:28] oh, I'm not the most important one anymore.

[00:07:31] But I think the, I digress a bit, but one of the things I thought would be so cool to talk to you about and to remind everybody is

[00:07:40] while reflecting back five years later is muddled and mixed and it's muddled and mixed, there are a ton of things that are just full of joy when you are in the experience.

[00:07:57] And when you are having fun, for example, the other night we did this crazy thing on our JP a brand steel like a fake survivor.

[00:08:05] I don't know how to explain it, but a fake survivor thing and you were in the same room as Marianne and to see the two of you together.

[00:08:17] It's got that energy, the same energy that you can see in the recent photo of the newest cast being all curled up in a bed together and like just being so close.

[00:08:30] What does that feel like to be back in the same room with Marianne, like podcasting with her? Is it like being back with a friend, a family man?

[00:08:41] What does that feel like?

[00:08:42] Yeah, there's a couple different things to hit on there. The first is I don't know what it is about this experience that makes people think that they can snuggle together because we also did that too.

[00:08:52] And I thought that was really kind of weird at the time, but it felt it was weird, but it felt so right. We literally have a text group called the Atlanta Snuggle Party.

[00:09:01] That was the five of us that went to the Atlanta Watch Party. We were cuddle up in bed watching the new episode at the time again.

[00:09:09] Of your season.

[00:09:11] Yeah, we watched it the night before. It was so loud you don't pick up on everything. So we watched it again all cuddled up together and then I saw them do it.

[00:09:18] And I was like, whoa, like that's a thing that happens. And I guess it's because you are like you do see everybody at their worst moments.

[00:09:24] Like I remember somebody had like accidentally soiled their own pants and you know, that's like something that's very intimate and vulnerable.

[00:09:32] But like you were there with them and you kind of like understand why that would happen and it's like it's not a big deal.

[00:09:36] But you see people at their true best and worst. And so I guess that does make sense. You know, being with Mary Ann, she has this infectious energy and then we,

[00:09:46] I'm the type of person that like feeds off of the energy that I get from somebody. So if somebody's very calm, I'm not going to be that person that's coming in like really hot and like, you know, very explosive.

[00:09:55] But if somebody expresses that side of themselves to me, it unleashes a part of me that can be very silly and very crazy and very wild as well.

[00:10:02] So that's why I enjoy being like with Mary Ann because I can be like kidlike again. And so, and but she lives 10 minutes from me.

[00:10:10] So it's like I see her all the time, like all the time. And bless now because you know she's studying for her MCAT. I'm studying for my test and she has a long term committed partner now so they spend time together.

[00:10:23] But I do see like we only live 10 minutes apart. So I'll see her at least weekly.

[00:10:29] And so it's, it's nice that we still have that energy that we can feed off of the other people pick up on because I thought oh we're like the old, old boring married couple now.

[00:10:38] Like platonically of course but like we've been together for so long and like right after the experience she was here almost all the time we would hang out because we were so close together.

[00:10:47] And we played the majority of the game together. So I think also watching the new seasons, you know, I thought was going to be really weird but it's actually been very helpful to have her there too because then we can watch it together and go through that experience together.

[00:11:00] I remember thinking that I was going to be super jealous in the hate 43 because it was ours was over and I think there was a degree of that to some extent in the sense that like oh you get a little bit of FOMO and it's like they had a 90 minute episode.

[00:11:14] Like that wasn't the premiere and I was like, I wish we had a 90 minute episode that wasn't the premiere and we got that more and now there's an episode all the time.

[00:11:23] And so there is a bit of like that that jealousy there but it's like it heaters out and then you realize like it's almost that same concept of like how you want the better, betterness for the next generation right.

[00:11:37] But like sometimes you get caught up in that mentality of like oh well I had to pay back all my debt so these kids shouldn't have to pay back their debt but like we shouldn't want future generations to suffer like you did you should want better for them because you want the people before you to wish better for you.

[00:11:54] So I think that there is a bit and then you know once that mentality kicked in it was much easier to watch 44 and even finishing up 43 was like it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be.

[00:12:04] And I still enjoyed it quite a bit and I think that I'm still a huge huge fan of the show, but it is a little bit different.

[00:12:09] I don't know how to really describe it or put it into words.

[00:12:12] I don't know maybe five years out you can do that a bit better.

[00:12:15] But watching after is different than watching before.

[00:12:18] And I think it's maybe because you know how it's made so it's a little bit different.

[00:12:22] And it's not the same but it's different and it's not necessarily a bad thing.

[00:12:28] It's just different and I don't really know how to verbalize that.

[00:12:32] Yeah, I don't know if I can either.

[00:12:35] I remember well the number one thing is that every every season starts to blend together.

[00:12:42] I am my most embarrassing moment post playing there are many but one of them is I was talking to Owen and ask him if he had ever met Jesse.

[00:12:52] It's harder when they're all numbered though to be fair.

[00:12:57] Yeah, that is true.

[00:12:59] I mean, the players do change that but it's like before I played I could go back and tell you I mean and I am not I believe I'm a survivor really big survivor fan.

[00:13:09] I am not a survivor super fan like I've tried to play the Twitch or like the weekly game where you guess the trivia stuff, you know, Jordan Kailish.

[00:13:20] I can never get any of those right like I am just not a super fan in that way but I loved watching Survivor and I could remember what season everyone and even starting tribes often.

[00:13:31] And now after I've played everyone sort of blends together one of the things prepping for this call and I hope this is an offensive is I was like going through and like remembering even though we don't talk much game stuff like remembering who you played with.

[00:13:46] Oh yeah, he did play with Mary and like that was the same season so that's something that starts to blend together.

[00:13:53] I think you're just watching for different things once you've played and it's not just because of being knowing how it's made per se, but it's it's because you are realizing what it feels like to sit there.

[00:14:13] At Trashville for example. Then I find myself noticing more eye contact being able to pay more attention in conversations when you can tell someone's listening and they're on board versus not I think it's just the intricate details of the experience that are brighter.

[00:14:35] But it is hard to explain I don't think there's anything else like I've never been on any other TV show or I guess maybe it's like if you were in a play like you'd gone to go see a play then you were in the play in high school musical and then you go see it again.

[00:14:53] Yeah, you know all the words and you know what it says on how when the waitress goes over she's supposed to throw down the coffee cup instead of pick up the coffee cup.

[00:15:02] Even though it's not scripted it's somewhat of you've lived through it so intimately yourself so it feels different maybe that's it I don't know.

[00:15:11] It's also I think part of it too is and I want to be careful how I say this because I don't want to be misconstrued but it's like, you know there's so much more to what they show than what's on there.

[00:15:23] And it's not in a way that's disingenuous I feel to the product that they show because I do feel it is very accurate.

[00:15:30] I think that the story of survivor 42 living it and then watching it on TV, like 95% of it was like very true to what happened and it was like, it told a succinct narrative but I think the thing with survivor is that it's not a succinct narrative like there's so much that happens.

[00:15:47] And you could be planning something for so many days but because it doesn't end up in the final vote. It's not relevant to the overall storyline and when you have 42 minutes a week to show something, you can't waste time on stuff that's not doesn't play out or doesn't matter to the end result of the game.

[00:16:05] So it's like, you know I remember there was when there were seven people left in the game like there was just so much craziness that happened before the final targets were set. And none of that was shown because it was not relevant to the final product but it's like, you know there's more and now having played you do you

[00:16:20] do have somewhat access to the new player so it's like it's sometimes more interesting to hear like everything that happened that wasn't shown from their perspective because it's a more complete storyline I guess but it's not to say that the show is not accurate because that's not true it's just like you don't have live feeds it's like the big brother live feeds versus watching the episode difference to some extent

[00:16:40] I think the survivor TV product is better no offense but it's just I think there's something there that's like you know that there's a bit more to the story but I also find that that lessens the further out that I get like watching 44 I didn't have as much of a magnifying glass on this 43 and I imagine that feeling 45 coming up will be even less so

[00:17:00] so I am falling back and then what I it's so so weird because now when I go back to old seasons and watch them it's I don't feel that way because it's almost like the before times and the after times like it feels different to me.

[00:17:13] It does it does it does feel that's so funny I don't think I've thought about that but going back to watch some old episodes with my husband who's now a survivor fan the old seasons before I played your right it hasn't changed somehow it's still like it's cemented in your memory

[00:17:29] it's like watching Hollywood worth it's still the whole thing yes still the whole thing true and it also is like I don't get star struck by meeting any of the new people anymore that came afterwards I do get star struck seeing people that played before 41 because it's like it's almost like they were different

[00:17:49] people like that then you were watching the show and there's these unattainable like they're different than you because they're there and then now you're like you I'm like a regular person and I was there so everybody's a regular person coming after like it's weird to me I don't know

[00:18:02] that's really I love I love that you picked out that nugget that is true it's like that difference in meeting new although I will say that Omar is started to happen again for me because

[00:18:15] like right after I played then I met people like 38 39 I went to 39 finale and you're right I had no feeling of I was just like oh yeah you're one of me like oh welcome to the crew here you are and then now a little bit like Jesse followed me yesterday on Instagram and I was like

[00:18:36] oh my god like they're like coming and talking to you like when I was nervous to ask you I guess it's yeah it started to feel a little okay so it's all right again I'm not sure if that's how it works for everyone but I have been quite star struck meeting older players is there anyone who you've been able to meet who was just like oh my gosh who is the number one

[00:19:00] number one so many people honestly like there's obviously the big names you know there's the boss around the Ethan the you met you met them yeah I met boss Robin Ethan at parts of reality last year and then I met Sandra at a watch party in Chicago and that was obviously incredible you know but even like not to shade Joe del Campo but like even meeting Joe del Campo I was like

[00:19:24] you're pop hop Joe you're constipated Joe I was like what is going on like where am I and so just meeting like honestly anybody and it's still cool really cool to meet the new era players because I feel like there is a bond there that just there's an understanding of the experience that's different from even everybody pre 40 like the experience is similar but it's still very very different but to meet people from before times if there's that that like wow factor that's

[00:19:53] not there for the new people but there's also an understanding and like a shared experience and like almost like a familiar like extended familial feeling to the new school players whereas I don't feel like part necessarily of the old school players but I'm like really star struck by them and I like love to talk to them and find out what their

[00:20:09] experience was like I remember it's like so cool to live the fan experience I remember listening to our R. H. A. P. recap with Kim and she has called me as her winner pick after episode three and I was like I can't believe this and then I gave her an animal that she reminded me of and she didn't like it but she's wrong about that like she is a secretary bird they are amazing animals but just to like live that experience or even like you know being able to like talk to Kelly went

[00:20:38] worth about her animals and like that is really cool for me and now now like someone like Kelly doesn't really feel like an unattainable like star like she's just a normal person that I can converse with but it's so cool to be able to like meet those people and share an experience that you can build upon.

[00:20:55] It is and what has it been like for you to have people come up to you like at the vet or out in public what is what has that been like to be recognized.

[00:21:06] It's it's definitely happening less like it occasionally happens now but you know at the peak of it it was happening almost every time I went out and you know survivor so big in Canada that and also like I'm not in like Toronto you know so Toronto there's like a million people two million people that live there like it's very hustle

[00:21:24] like many New York nobody will actually get stopped there but like it is it's not as common as like in the smaller towns especially like or like smaller populations where it's more intimate or people have more prolonged conversations with you and at first it was it was it was really cool to it is really cool when people stop you because I was a fan of the show and I remember when I would go through the air like I lived in Canada and at the time nobody was on the show there but when I would go to the states.

[00:21:49] I would be in the airport and I would always be on the lookout for former survivors and I was like what I'm going to Orlando like this person lives here maybe I'll see them like that's super cool and so I would always look for that and I never found it but so people see me I know that.

[00:22:05] That's like and I'm like happy to chat with them and all of that and then it's gone from like people definitely recognize you to like people.

[00:22:12] One person said that what they're like you're my physiotherapist and I was like no I'm not but like you know and that's weird because that's someone physiotherapist is.

[00:22:21] To some extent that's kind of a weird to be like the state for that like very closely with you to make you better but like.

[00:22:29] Like that's not me.

[00:22:32] Hi and I was like she's like you don't know who I am I was like no I'm so sorry and then then you realize then you ask oh did you watch this and then that's where it kind of comes out but it is fun like I appreciate that as a fan so like when people do recognize you.

[00:22:50] As long as I'm not like in the middle of something it's fine and at work it happens occasionally at work and it is kind of fun to break up the like normal monotony of work.

[00:23:02] But sometimes it's also like I would say it's never bothered me, but it is kind of awkward to switch from like a very serious topic to like something that's like hard and then go back to that.

[00:23:12] But you know being in a veterinary setting you are kind of used to that as well because you'll go from one room where it's like a beautiful well this exam everyone's so happy to meet their new pet and blah blah blah blah blah and then go to a room where somebody has to put down their animal that they've lived with for like 10 years and so like you do have to very much shift your what you're giving to people in every moment so I am also used to that too so.

[00:23:34] Yeah, and it does add an additional emotional expectation to have people coming to you and saying oh hey I know I know who you are.

[00:23:48] I think I look back I wish I would have handled it a little better I think I was.

[00:23:54] I think I don't know I love it now I don't know that I was so great at like loving it in the maybe like the first times it was really fun and then it started to like get a little cold, you know.

[00:24:08] And now it's so fun again because it doesn't happen very often I was just in Newark Airport and I'd gotten delayed and canceled like such a miserable trip and all of a sudden I just hear like,

[00:24:20] Kellen like yelling across the airport I was like oh my gosh I know someone here and I look at them they just come over and then they have that look on their face like oh I'm so I can't believe I just did that like yell her name and they were they were fans of the show and it was so heartwarming in that moment.

[00:24:36] I wish I could have kept that feeling the entire time but I think that's pretty impossible to ask of someone in that year when it's happening a lot and life interruptions.

[00:24:50] Yeah, and it's also I think it also to be fair happened to me a lot because some I've been hanging out with Mary and sometimes so then it's like when there's two yeah you doesn't get recognized that much alone I get recognized not that much alone.

[00:25:04] When we're together like it's like something clicks in the minds of people that it's like much more common and then it's it's kind of a fun experience that we share as well like so kind of reminisce and go back to that so I can definitely understand why it is sometimes very overwhelming for sure.

[00:25:19] I unfortunately haven't felt that too much I think the one time that it does come up is when they're very very large survivor settings and you're like trying to get to the bathroom but you like literally can because every three feet so I'll stop you and it's it's it's a fine balance though because I do really appreciate it for them and I want to be there completely but sometimes it was like okay I'm a little bit overwhelmed now I need to like take a break in the bathroom.

[00:25:46] But that would be the one situation but that's because it's like volume as opposed to the individual interaction.

[00:25:53] Yeah, yeah that's a great way to describe and that's helpful for me too thank you for putting that into perspective because I think it was volume at the time I also you know had to eat eat it a little bit a couple times where I thought people one knew who I was and like they didn't or whatever or somebody came up and introduced themselves

[00:26:15] and I was like oh do you want a picture and they said no so now I never ask anyone.

[00:26:22] I feel like I saw these people at the airport the other day and I'm too scarred to be like oh would you like a picture maybe they did want one because most of the time people would be too shy to ask so I thought until I asked the one person they were like no and I was like oh my god this is the worst thing.

[00:26:37] I know that's an admirable quality that's an admirable quality because I am always afraid so this actually means hearkens back to the game as well but like well actually I'll first of all an awkward experience I had with a photo was some one time was with Mary Ann and then the person just wanted a photo with her and I had to take the photo it was kind of awkward

[00:26:56] but it was also I didn't know if they knew who I was either though like they might not know but it was a bit awkward and then but then I felt indicated because the next person we saw because we were at a Bujji's game which is the baseball team if people are not familiar but they were they were like I love your game and then I was like and she won and she's like yeah but I love your game.

[00:27:19] We both have had that experience in the same night so that's kind of funny.

[00:27:23] Okay so but I think it's a very admirable quality that you even asked them because you know I find in life I do not want to put myself out there if I know I could fail you know like I am I have to be like almost 100% certain before I do something that it will be successful or that it will end the way I wanted to before I put myself out there and I think that sometimes that is

[00:27:43] I mean there's a very protective quality over your own self but that can also be a harmful quality and you can miss out on opportunities or growth by not having that mentality so even the little aspect where you can put yourself out there is a quality that will excel and propel you in life

[00:28:01] and even in the game I found that that was something that held me back a little bit because you know I think that it was very easy to play in the shadows you know when nobody knew what I was doing but the second that I had to be like more overtly aggressive and like put myself out there

[00:28:16] was like I know the targets on me like I'm gonna just go for it now that was hard to do because you don't want to put yourself out there and fail and I remember there's a very distinct moment where I had told Jonathan had questioned me about if I had told Lindsay about my secret advantage which was an

[00:28:35] which was an idol loa fire which is on the show and she said I said no I did not but then I saw him walk up grab her run into the woods and I was like that's not good he's gonna ask her and then she might tell him and then I'm going to be exposed

[00:28:52] but what held me back was like I was like avoidant and I was like I go talk to her after and say what did he talk to you about if I find out something bad like I'm gonna I'm putting myself out there for failure but if I just pretend it didn't happen and hope that it's fine then it might be okay

[00:29:08] and if I had just had that conversation the whole game would have been different because then I even thought about it in the moment but that held me back you know and so knowing sometimes your qualities that don't excel you forward or that are really your weaknesses like really knowing those and being aware of them can help you in a game like that

[00:29:26] end in life as well. What stuck out to me is where you said like I'm a person who if I can't know the outcome I don't want to try but I read in your bio that getting into veterinary school in Canada is only a 3 to 5% acceptance rate so how did you 100% know that you were gonna get a 3 to 5% acceptance rate?

[00:29:46] So the 3 to 5% was for exotic animal residency and stuff like that but the veterinary acceptance rate is probably like 25% but the thing is I had good grades going into it I didn't know for sure if I would get in but I also didn't really interestingly enough at that time in my life know what I wanted to do

[00:30:05] and so I felt like a little bit stuck at that point in time so you know I did not know what I wanted to do as a career I just knew that I wanted to work with animals and that was it and that was actually something that was not very supported in my household or in my culture like you know they were very much you're very smart

[00:30:25] you are an academic you need to go be a doctor because you should do that like you it's good honestly it's like not even to be quite honest about like the humanity of it I don't think anyway I think it's more about the prestige of being a doctor and like that's what you

[00:30:43] should do you'll make a lot of money you'll help people even though I don't think that's their motivation but you know it was very much I was like basically told you need to be a doctor you need to do this need to do that so for me it was a bit of like a career crisis of

[00:30:58] being told I need to do this but I really don't want to do it but I had no idea like what career path I wanted to do and I had no confidence in my ability to handle animals because I loved animals like I love them my whole life.

[00:31:11] You know, it was starting grade two from what I can remember like I saw Blue Jay in the backyard and it was like that is the coolest thing I've ever seen I want to learn everything about it I would go to the library and all these books.

[00:31:20] And it's so funny because my dad at the time when I was deciding to go to that school had said every time I took you to the library to get those books it was another nail in the coffin.

[00:31:30] It was like that is so dramatic like get over it.

[00:31:34] But it's kind of funny, but you know I would put everything into like learning about these animals but I never had any confidence in my own ability to do so.

[00:31:43] Like we had pet budgies and this sounds so bad now as a veterinarian but like I was afraid to let them out of their cage.

[00:31:50] And you know sometimes they would escape and I would be really terrified like I was so scared.

[00:31:56] And then my dad would go catch them and then he'd be like see look just a harmless bird and I was like I know but like I'm like really scared and especially that they'll hurt themselves.

[00:32:05] I don't know what about them like flying around like scared me, but I loved them it was weird it was a weird thing and so then when I got to university I didn't know what I wanted to do but I started volunteering with this organization called Wild Ontario you can track them out at our Wild Ontario dot c a but they take care of nonreleasable birds of prey.

[00:32:26] And I remember being scared but I was like I want to do that and so I started volunteering with them and then the third training lab was you know how do you restrain them safely to do a physical exam and to see if there's anything wrong with them because these raptors like they can hurt you like they don't want to hurt you but they have weapons to defend themselves if you are doing something that threatens them.

[00:32:47] And so if you're restraining them that's not a natural position for them they're going to want to defend themselves and they have big talons that could like grab you and hurt you or they have a beak that can bite you.

[00:32:57] So it's like how do you do that safely.

[00:32:59] And I remember seeing the volunteer like just grab the legs with these gloves and like hold this big bird of prey by the legs and then secure the head and hold it and I was like that's insane I'll never be able to do that but then I had to do it.

[00:33:16] And then I realized wow I can do it and that's really the moment was like okay well I can do this and I am interested in animals and they want me to be a doctor but I could be a doctor for animals like maybe that's the career path to take you know and then I was wrestling between

[00:33:30] dad and like a zookeeper or researcher and you know just seemed like that was it seems weird because at the time I didn't know what to do fully I didn't know how to do any of those things because I didn't have a specific role model that was

[00:33:42] leading me through and supporting that decision per se like my older sister was the one who was supportive to do whatever I wanted but she didn't necessarily know those career paths so I was like well this is amongst those oddly enough going to be a doctor was the easiest

[00:33:59] like route to take because it was the most similar to what they wanted and it's something that I still could see myself doing and now that I've gone through that experience of learning how to safely take care of animals

[00:34:11] and part of me you know regretted that to some extent of like I would be really fun to be a zookeeper but there's like I'm really happy in my job now so it's it is fulfilling but it is

[00:34:21] it was a hard choice to go into that but like I had good grades like like academically I knew I could get in and do that but so that I mean that's the long route to like yes I I felt like I could get into that school and so I went and did it but I didn't go in for dogs and cats like I was scared of dogs

[00:34:41] I didn't like them at all and now I'm not scared of them and I don't hate them but like I went there specifically to do exotic animals and birds like that was why I went to that school so for me the taking the risk to do the three three to five percent to get into a residency for that program was specifically because I didn't want to do anything else

[00:35:00] like if I didn't do that I would just change careers like that was the only option at that point.

[00:35:03] It was the only option at that point.

[00:35:38] It's time for today's Lucky Land Horoscope with Victoria Cash.

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[00:37:11] Okay, round two.

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[00:37:42] And when you were applying to Survivor, which is I don't know some version of a small percentage chance of getting on.

[00:37:50] I don't know what the percentage chance is.

[00:37:53] Was your mindset similar in applying to Survivor as applying to this exotic pet program?

[00:37:58] Like this is what I want to do or you didn't know and it was just a completely different.

[00:38:02] Yeah, I think it's...

[00:38:03] I really think it compares that.

[00:38:04] I think it's...

[00:38:06] So when I do something again, I still think for the most part I only do things that I know I'll succeed at.

[00:38:10] And I felt like I could succeed on Survivor and I feel like I could succeed on getting on Survivor.

[00:38:15] But at the same time, the stakes weren't exactly the same in the sense that, you know, I at first maybe I wouldn't do anything that I thought I could fail at at all.

[00:38:23] But then, you know, you start to explore a little more like even something dumb is going on a roller coaster that I was scared of.

[00:38:30] I was like, well, you know, you did it and you had fun.

[00:38:33] So like and through universe, I didn't have a lot of like experiences doing crazy stuff before university.

[00:38:40] But when I started to go to university, I started to explore that side of like, wow, and nothing is super crazy.

[00:38:44] But like, okay, I'm going to go real like on a research trip to Algonquin Park, which is like a forested protected area in the province to go research.

[00:38:54] And I've never done that before.

[00:38:56] But wow, I had a great time doing it.

[00:38:58] You know, I started to do these other I went to volunteer the bird program.

[00:39:01] I'd never done that before.

[00:39:02] I tried to learn how to ride a bike unsuccessfully, but I tried it.

[00:39:06] And like I just hadn't done all of these things before.

[00:39:08] So I was like, it is almost like I would push myself to do something that made me uncomfortable because I knew that I could learn from it.

[00:39:14] So but I still did that in someone I control like looking back and reflecting like in a controlled manner.

[00:39:19] Like, I'm not going to be judged for having a or going to a research trip, you know, or if I apply to Survivor and I don't get on like nobody's going to do that.

[00:39:28] I'm not going to know.

[00:39:29] It's not a real big to that, you know.

[00:39:31] So I thought that, you know, I'm getting to the point now in even getting on the show, like I remember very specifically early on, you know, you look at your the way that I am.

[00:39:43] I'm not the most athletic person.

[00:39:45] I am a visible minority and, you know, a religious minority as well.

[00:39:50] And that those are factors that I know player role in the game of with unconscious bias.

[00:39:54] Like I've known that since I started watching it as a child, I was hyper aware of that.

[00:39:59] And so I thought to myself like, you cannot do something in the same way as somebody else can and get away with it.

[00:40:08] Like if you screw up a puzzle, the magnifying glass will be on you more.

[00:40:12] And I think that is not a malicious thing for anybody.

[00:40:14] I just think it's like if you look at the way the game is, you start out the game, you have every, especially in the first three to five days, right?

[00:40:21] Because that's the period of time where you don't really know anybody, but you have so much to lose.

[00:40:27] And so if you have so much to lose and you're looking for some reason to vote somebody else because somebody has to lose.

[00:40:33] Like if you, if I were to look at another Indian man or another Muslim and say they should go because they screwed up the puzzle, that could easily be me.

[00:40:42] You know? But it's like if it's not them, then it's not going to be me.

[00:40:46] You know, like I think that's a subconscious thing. That's a protective mechanism.

[00:40:49] So it's like if you see somebody that's very different from you, screwing something up.

[00:40:53] Well, you know, if they go home because of that, that's not like you're not risking yourself in a subconscious way.

[00:41:00] I don't know if that makes sense, but I think that that is how I feel about it.

[00:41:03] And so for like, I know that I'm going to be the only one like me there.

[00:41:07] I was so shocked to see Swathi there as your brother Indian.

[00:41:10] I thought it was going to be the only one, but I was still the only one on my tribe.

[00:41:12] So I was not going to step out and do something that I knew I was going to fail at.

[00:41:18] And even the triangle puzzle was like what is on our marooning episode.

[00:41:23] And that was the best way to introduce the notion that I could do the puzzles and step up and actually do it

[00:41:28] because I saw how bad the rest of them were at it.

[00:41:31] You know, I think 13 triangles and Jackson, I'm like, there's like I'm at 35 right now.

[00:41:37] Like this, I realized I was the best at that.

[00:41:39] And so, you know, that was a non pressure way to like realize that I was going to excel in that area.

[00:41:45] And so that I could put myself out there and I knew I was going to do better than all of them.

[00:41:49] So then I could, I could actually get in and step into that role.

[00:41:53] And then Jonathan at one point, you know, for everything people said about him, like he's a various person

[00:41:58] and he's not given as much credit in terms of like his ability to observe and like, you know, get a feel for the game.

[00:42:06] But at one point he said to me right after the merge, I was, I was like, I can, I think I can paint the flag if you guys want me to

[00:42:12] but like if you want to do it, that's fine.

[00:42:14] And he's like, as soon as you said that I knew you were going to do a good job at it because you don't do anything that you're not going to

[00:42:20] but you don't say you can do something when you can't do it.

[00:42:22] And so I was like, wow, he picked that up.

[00:42:25] I need to be more careful about what I'm doing here, I guess.

[00:42:28] People are watching.

[00:42:30] Yeah, I am.

[00:42:31] But that is, I guess that's, so yes, I don't, I think I'm getting better at just, and I wish that I had in hindsight just been like, you know what?

[00:42:40] I can say even on the show, I was like, I am probably not going to win.

[00:42:46] You know, I was like 17 people lose one person wins.

[00:42:49] I think that I have a chance to win, but I'm probably not going to win.

[00:42:52] And that freed me up to not be ashamed of failure.

[00:42:55] But I think I was afraid to be like, I really want to win.

[00:42:59] I really want to do this.

[00:43:00] I really want to excel and really want to succeed because then if I say that and then I fail, like what does that say?

[00:43:07] You know, so I think that looking back is like, that's not a big deal.

[00:43:11] So I think that even at the moment.

[00:43:14] And I have a question for you that you may differ, but you had mentioned a couple of times that your what seems to be your true path of where you want to go in your interests have been in conflict with that of your nuclear family and culture and religion at times.

[00:43:36] Is that fair to say?

[00:43:38] I would say like, I would say maybe not religiously so but okay, but more culturally and I say that my the biggest pressures I would say were even an extended family as well.

[00:43:50] Like my my parent, both my parents, my mom didn't she wouldn't she have an idea of what she wanted me to do, but she wasn't like pushy about it.

[00:43:57] And she wasn't like the strongest parental figure per se.

[00:44:00] My dad was pushy about what he wanted, but I didn't really like it sounds so bad to say but I was like I don't really care that much what you think in terms of career and stuff like that just because you didn't really fully have your own career anyway.

[00:44:12] So it's like I am if I'm like I'm not failure if I am a professional vet to you but like, you know, my grandparents like they really wanted me to do something and you know, I remember when I got into my that school and my grandma would be like,

[00:44:25] I'm telling people in India that you're just a doctor. I'm going to leave that that like okay, that's fine. But like there was this pressure but now they're all very supportive like our understanding and they know that it's okay now like I am where I am.

[00:44:37] But I had to very early step out of what was expected of me to do what I wanted to do. And that is something that is invaluable because like the happiness that they would get for me to be a vet or for me to be a doctor versus the like what it would do to me.

[00:44:55] versus the like the marginal happiness that we get out of that compared to like living a career that you don't want to live versus doing what you want to do and like the marginal unhappiness that they'll get but then they realize it's fine.

[00:45:06] Like that, that was worth that decision at that time and still is.

[00:45:12] I wonder how much this concept and like the way that you've gone through these processes has walked in in parallel to the idea of, I can't go off and try to check that mark without making sure I've covered all my bases, because if I'm going to go outside of this path, I sure as heck better hit a home run.

[00:45:36] So I wonder if that's all kind of coming together.

[00:45:40] Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I could definitely I could definitely see that connection and it all and even like, yeah, is even talking to you I can like learn more about myself and like the path that I've taken because that does make a lot of sense and I think that translates to every other aspect of my life to where I'm like I have to succeed if I'm going to do something and you know now realizing like you don't

[00:46:01] necessarily have to do that you can still be happy is freeing in a big sense.

[00:46:07] So, you know even losing survivor was not that difficult.

[00:46:11] I mean partially because I prepared by like you know God don't really like want it that much.

[00:46:15] Well, not on it but like I was like, I it's I'm probably going to lose so if I lose it's fine, you know, my head I was always like, I have to win I have to win I have to win.

[00:46:26] Once you've played you and you could taste it right like we all got a taste of it even if you're the first boot I think you, you get a taste of I think I could have one.

[00:46:37] And so to just have that experience automatically means there is some regret for not having done things in a way that would have ended up on that.

[00:46:49] Yeah, that would have wanted also even just saying it like it doesn't matter if I say I wanted to win and I did it you know like, I think that that is that shows a vulnerability and that shows the ability to like I wouldn't judge somebody else for doing that so why should I be judged for doing that you know I think sometimes treating yourself the way you would want others to be treated or that you would treat others is is something that I need to learn.

[00:47:14] It's we're our own worst critic and I think I don't want to compare our stories but in the sense of when when you said with the bird being like well if you can't if you can't get that bird now I don't know and that's stuck with you.

[00:47:31] My, my parents are farmers at chicken farmers actually and lots of birds we have that a bit different.

[00:47:40] Yeah.

[00:47:41] And so I think with my parents their dreams for me are quite different than the dreams I ended up having for myself and survivor being one of those things that I think my mom was really scared for me and I don't I don't necessarily know what my dad thought.

[00:47:59] Who knows.

[00:48:00] But we'll never know.

[00:48:03] But it's, it was for me a portion of separation of the expectations from my childhood even though I was a 30 year old woman.

[00:48:16] Right.

[00:48:17] Do you feel like playing survivor in some ways transformed your identity within in your own reflection towards your nuclear family.

[00:48:30] I think towards my nuclear family. No, I mean unfortunately my dad passed away before I go on the show so I never he never really got to experience that and he was probably the most involved with survivor in that he would like make us whatever like our special meal for the week and like get all the snacks that we wanted and then me my younger sister would watch the show together and

[00:48:50] So it's like a part of your family.

[00:48:52] Yeah, but it was especially early on but then by the time you know, like after season 20 I went to, I was away in university.

[00:49:03] And my sister is not in university so I wasn't really survivor was more my own thing at that point in time but before that like very early on like yes it was a little bit part of the family and so it was very nice to share that experience and like I wish that he had been here to like

[00:49:17] I was like, you know, I'm not the best compliment I ever received was, you know, you more than anyone know who you are and are like the most genuine yourself of anybody that I know and I was like that's really nice compliment because I always thought that I would, you know, keep more time

[00:49:33] to myself and not really share parts of myself earlier on in life. It was very shy and stuff like that. And I was very insecure early on in life. And then so to like kind of come to this place where I was more secure was great but then survivor, like so I think I already kind of knew who I was

[00:49:52] coming out of survivor and it brought my family a bit closer I think just because my older sister, you know she went back and watched every season was like I got really into it. My younger sister also caught up on everything. And that's something that we could really share and bring us together.

[00:50:07] But I think weirdly like after the show, I wasn't I think I lost that sense of like who I was again a little bit and like it took a while to kind of find that again. But less so because the show and more so because like I experienced like a breakup. That was pretty not fun.

[00:50:26] Right before the show started and then I was like oh shoot now this major show is airing I can't deal with that at all. And then having to deal with that afterwards, you know I kind of lost who I was in that process but you know it's been enough time where I've like starting to feel like myself again so that is and go back to that person that I used to be so that is something I think before.

[00:50:44] And I think that's the right here it's strengthened strengthen that ability.

[00:50:49] Do you do you think that going on survivor also you can raise the weight surrender button here.

[00:50:56] Do you think that going on survivor was a contribution to were you dating that person before you went to play. Yeah, so she was my first relationship and she so far only relationship.

[00:51:07] But she was you know I was with her for seven years. And so I was like oh I'm going to go on survivor. And then I was like oh I'm going to go on survivor.

[00:51:16] So she was my first relationship and she so far only relationship. But she was, you know I was with her for seven years. And so, you know going on survivor.

[00:51:28] You know, I think it was a straight and it was a catalyst towards breaking up but that I can't say it was because of survivor like I do think that survivor was a bit of a catalyst because there was a lot of tension coming up to when the show is airing about, you know, you know she was Christian and I was mostly like

[00:51:45] Christian and I was Muslim. And that was the biggest reason that we weren't like married by now, you know, and so, you know, before that show I think that the show showcasing like my faith and stuff that that was going to be very stressful for her family.

[00:52:01] And I think that that is something that also, you know, taught me in hindsight your place in society as a Muslim is very like I don't think I fully I think survivor actually most helped me realize my identity as a Muslim and an Indian and like how that shaped my whole life.

[00:52:17] I didn't think I really fully realized that until going through the experience and I know like some annoying people now are like don't talk about race don't talk about race blah blah blah blah blah but like it is important part of identity and social politics and all of that and I think that I didn't fully recognize all the things that I do because of that until the

[00:52:37] experience. So what I say what I mean by that is like, I think as like with everything that happened in 2020 with like George Floyd and all of that, you know it's very clear, not fully because you can never fully understand until you are in somebody's shoes, like some of the struggles of their

[00:52:56] experience by black players on the show. You know there's been a lot of vocal outlets for that lately which is amazing because we didn't really have that before a lot of the contestants earlier on in the show, didn't get to express themselves because people wouldn't understand or they would judge them or they were the only minority on the cast and so it was very

[00:53:15] amazing to be able to talk about that. But now that there's so much more diversity and like there's like really horrible world experiences open the door for those conversations, you know a lot of those voices can speak out and there's you know in some voices in the Latinx community and the Asian community as well.

[00:53:31] There aren't a lot of voices like in the Indian Sri Lankan or the brown community or the Muslim community as to what that experience is like. And I think that the experience is very different, in the sense that you know there's there's a lot of dehumanizing things that occur, especially to black people in society by like the systems

[00:53:55] in power and stuff like that. That's not necessarily the same experience shared by brown people or Muslim people, but it's a very different form of exclusion I would say like you know you are kind of viewed as not there, you know like it's like you have to just fit in to be there

[00:54:15] and like be thankful for that and don't speak up, don't say what you need just kind of be the model citizen that just stays quiet and does what they're supposed to do and doesn't create any waves and doesn't really talk. And because you shouldn't even be here at all, you know like, yeah I think that that's more the mentality that it feels

[00:54:30] like, especially after 9-11, like you don't really want to like advertise who you are because you know there's a lot of misconceptions about that. And you know even looking at Survivor Cook Islands there's no Indian tribe, you know there's no, there's no even place free and there wasn't an Indian on the show until

[00:54:47] Karishma in season 39. So like suddenly what does that say you know, like growing up you don't see people like you in on the show you don't see people like you in any show it unless they're like a convenience store owner on the Simpsons and that's it or they're a terrorist or you know those are like the roles that you see yourself in on TV and that

[00:55:07] and so there's no you think you don't belong. And so, you know I remember also at one point, hi had said to me, he's like what did bother you that they would always think gospel and when you were around and I was like, no it didn't really bother me and then I thought more about that afterwards and I was like well why did that bother me.

[00:55:25] I think it's because it's like, I'm supposed to just be there and be okay with everything you know. And it's like we shouldn't even be here so like if they want to do their thing that's fine like you're just there and don't need to talk about it.

[00:55:37] And so I realized that wow like you really do put yourself kind of second in a lot of ways or just go along to get along and you can lose yourself in that process and lose what you need or what you want.

[00:55:51] And that also you know translated into a relationship where I would felt like I was the kind of the problem because I was the Muslim, you know, like that's the issue and that's issue with the other family and that's, you know, if they see you pray on TV that's going to be a traumatic thing and it was like oh my gosh but like you should also realize that

[00:56:09] that means so much to some people out there who don't feel like they're represented and maybe your family's reaction to that is not important in the grand scheme of things.

[00:56:19] Like and then my faith and then I also realized like my faith shouldn't affect other people's faith, you know, like my face should not affect your faith or anybody else's ability to feel anyway like it shouldn't be threatening to anybody else.

[00:56:32] And therefore yours should not affect mine right like I said not between me and you specifically but in this world of what you're saying.

[00:56:41] Yeah, I realized that that I can do me you do you.

[00:56:48] Oh, I'll be me.

[00:56:51] And

[00:56:52] you're no less offer that like I'm a vice versa like that is really how it is not causing. Yes, the division causes the harm the different religions is not harm and you

[00:57:05] Oh sorry in some ways like that mentality of being the outsider but you don't really belong like I think the other thing that's the most thing that people would understand is like the presidential issue, you know with with Obama, like when

[00:57:21] Obama was president people will be like he's Muslim and then people would be like no he's not like no there's no way he's not because a Muslim could never leave this country you know like that it's just so ingrained on both sides

[00:57:34] and then backing him for allegedly being a Muslim which he's not but like they're saying that that's a bad thing and you shouldn't be that and then his camp is being like no we're not like that's there's no way look at my like proof that I'm not like like that is

[00:57:50] then that's just like accepted culture nobody people having that conversation with with anyone but people who are Muslim. Yeah, yeah and nobody once said why does it matter, you know and I think that that is.

[00:58:03] And when you don't have that on a very like media systemic societal level, like you don't feel like you belong. And I think that

[00:58:12] in some ways that was happening while you were out there and you're not or not until you watched it back for the time in between. Maybe you can't pinpoint it.

[00:58:24] I would say I think that actually this I think there's multiple layers that I think you know what I realized in hindsight was that you know part of who I am in that way actually helped in the game a little bit in the sense that you know if you are able to cater to others

[00:58:40] in survivor.

[00:58:42] Even if you're taking care of yourself like that can be helpful, you know if you don't put your needs first and you put other people's needs first that will help you in the game, especially if you can get in with everybody and do that, but then at the same time like in real life

[00:58:55] sometimes you lose who you are and what you really want and what you really need in that way.

[00:59:00] So I think it's a double edged sword but in the game it can be very helpful. I think that where it came into like in the game proper I think the ways that it maybe came into play were a little bit untangible in the sense that like, I think there was a bunch of very strong

[00:59:15] There wasn't a lot of religious diversity on our season, you know like you had Jonathan, Mariah, Jackson, Mary Ann on my starting tribe that's four out of six that are very devout Christians.

[00:59:26] They share a bond that I could never be a part of you know and so I have to find other things to bond upon and so like I but I knew that going in so that's how I kind of adapted to that and like you know Tori Romeo, they're also very

[00:59:40] strong Christians as well but like it's just a bond but like how much of that not being able to share in that effect in the game I think that that's hard to quantify.

[00:59:49] But at the same time, I was still able to be successful within the game, despite that so for me, like in the game proper didn't really make a difference it's just in the literal day to day interactions that I realize that kind of coming out of the game

[01:00:01] of like, oh, you know the way you act and then reflecting upon in my relationship as well as like oh the way that you act and go about your interactions really is influenced by who you are more than you thought it was, and in ways that you never thought it was

[01:00:14] and I think that the way that it maybe came more into play was more the reaction towards me afterwards because people are very hurt by you know the betrayals and stuff like that.

[01:00:25] I think also like there was one point in time, you know where I've talked a lot with Chanel about that and in hindsight and like we're really good friends now.

[01:00:37] Even coming out of the game we like had more of an understanding about each other than we did before, but like I don't think she really understood the magnitude of like the fact that you know there was only one Indian on the show before me.

[01:00:49] And, and there was, and there were three Muslims before me that, and we didn't know to see her at the time that none of them made the merge and none of them did well in the game and some of them were voted out very first or very early on in their tribes, because they didn't have anybody to kind of back them up.

[01:01:05] And she had no idea about that and like didn't realize the impact of that.

[01:01:10] And, you know I think coming into the game I was like I'm not going to have the pressure of representing a community because that can only hurt me in the game.

[01:01:18] And, you know I think that she came in with a very different mentality of like, you know, being like taking on a burden of society as well.

[01:01:28] And I was like, I recognize that burden was there but I was like I cannot let that influence me because it will only hurt my game.

[01:01:34] But then, you know I couldn't if I'm going to like let that go for me I can't look at that for everybody else too, you know.

[01:01:41] And so I think that, you know putting that into perspective for her was very enlightening and it really allowed us to grow closer after but it's like people just don't know and I can't fault people for not knowing because look at the history of the show there just hasn't been that.

[01:01:55] So now that we're seeing more of different people in different backgrounds like it's very good I think in helping shape everybody's expectations and knowledge of each other.

[01:02:08] Yeah, do you feel like playing a new era like post diversity initiative change like if if you had played pre diversity initiative it would have been a different experience.

[01:02:21] Yeah, it's a good question and I'm not to be honest I'm not really sure I mean I think part of me thinks that yes because when you don't have.

[01:02:30] When you have so much diversity, you really have to rely on things beyond superficialities to find connections with people. And I think that it made more people do that just because they couldn't rely on that, because there was so much diversity.

[01:02:43] Whereas I think in the season before like you know I'm just thinking if I'm out there and so specific on coaches.

[01:02:51] Cult tribe like how am I really going to fit in there like I'm not really sure but at the same time, coming from a background where you have to fit into to get along.

[01:03:00] You know maybe that would have pushed me to find common ground regardless and maybe it would have been fine.

[01:03:05] So I don't really know to be quite honest but I think that it is a good thing.

[01:03:10] Certainly and I talked about this in episode with Wendell about the diversity initiative and my belief that it truly has benefited everyone.

[01:03:25] I think first and foremost from the viewership experience and changing how the show is consumed, and then not to mention the survivor the contestant experiences just huge as well so thankful for all of that work and as you talked about

[01:03:50] being a representation of something and deciding I don't want to carry that torch specifically but you did you were thinking about being an uncle to be a role model in that way.

[01:04:04] What was it like to watch the show back with your nieces.

[01:04:10] It was honestly the viewing back experience was so fun and I know that's not always the case for everybody but you know, I definitely knew that I did nothing on the show that I would be and also I'm kind of shameless to right so it's like, I was like I don't care if I embarrassed myself

[01:04:26] and the most part like if it's all in good fun you know whatever it will be will be, but I had a good kind of idea of everything that I did out there and I knew like the worst.

[01:04:35] I think that's one of the psychology profiles that I had before the show was like you don't need to know anything that you did wrong because you'll already know it yourself, because you are your own toughest critic and I think that that's true so

[01:04:44] kind of going through the scenarios I was like I know what I did and this is the worst way they could show me so I'm prepared for that and so I was fine. So that really freed me to just enjoy the experience watching it back and and they loved watching the show back to and it was so funny because you know, they didn't show the letters

[01:04:59] because we didn't get them on the island but I got mine after and my my little niece was like you might be voted out first for being annoying or whatever but like well still love you. I was like that's kind of funny.

[01:05:13] And so yeah it was really fun to watch it back with them and they really enjoyed the show. And my older niece is actually very she's a very good strategist like she always knows her favorite on your season was actually Sebastian.

[01:05:25] I'm not sure why.

[01:05:28] I mean I love Sebastian but I'm surprised that you jump from she's a really great strategist to Sebastian I would not take that.

[01:05:36] That's why I was surprised that that was her favorite but she always like she I remember we were watching the episode where Chelsea went home because we were like watching them all and preparation to go out like especially the last 10 seasons we would watch back in preparation to go out and she was like,

[01:05:51] you know what the girls they need to get together. They need to vote it like Laurel needs to turn on Dom and Wendell right now they need to just pull in Donathan and it's done.

[01:06:00] And I was like, yeah, I mean that should happen.

[01:06:04] It should happen I agree.

[01:06:07] I agree.

[01:06:09] Yeah, that's what Helen tried to do but it didn't work out so she wasn't good enough of a survivor to get that done let's all admit that.

[01:06:19] That wasn't all your fault.

[01:06:22] Even though I like really took Wendell over and over in his episode about like how did you get them to do that I still can't let it go you know we talked about at the beginning of this we talk about being in it and then being out of it and it's just as easy sometimes to slip right back into that proverbial buff.

[01:06:43] I don't know if I use that term right but to just slip right into it so.

[01:06:48] But it sounds like your niece is a big fan of the show and has great opinions on how.

[01:06:56] Yeah, maybe maybe she'll be on someday but.

[01:07:00] How old is she?

[01:07:01] She's now 10 but she she quit watching for someone like 16 how cute she's.

[01:07:08] Yeah, yeah she's 10 now but she she totally she stopped watching 44 because she's afraid of every medical evacuation and so as soon as she saw her.

[01:07:16] Hit on the head she's like I'm done and she like cannot watch every time we watching an episode she like is there a medevac and then how do you know and then she's like how do you know and I was like I've seen before like.

[01:07:28] Oh well that season is can't even watch any of the previous.

[01:07:34] Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's probably because she got a she saw the preview of Matthew falling which still like oh my jaws tightening right now just seeing that I mean if she had to see that once it would keep children from watching CBS.

[01:07:49] Take that stuff out nobody.

[01:07:51] Take out the rock get rid of that rock out.

[01:07:55] No that's a good privacy rock.

[01:07:57] It is a great it is a.

[01:08:00] You were on that island to yeah.

[01:08:02] Yeah, yeah, that was the video island.

[01:08:04] That's the VD beach and it was our much as well.

[01:08:08] Oh yeah.

[01:08:09] Yeah Malolo was windy.

[01:08:11] Bradley was right.

[01:08:13] It was windy and there were tons of ants.

[01:08:16] There are lots of it didn't smell like urine like they were not peeing far enough away from camp so I have to say that well maybe Bradley shouldn't have said those things.

[01:08:26] He was not lying he was also there was a white cat on that island.

[01:08:30] I never saw it but I did.

[01:08:32] Like I feel like that.

[01:08:34] I never I never saw a cat.

[01:08:36] Maybe it was a recent thing though to be fair I never saw either new one.

[01:08:40] Yeah, so Naveedie Beach is definitely what were those be what are the tribe names for you.

[01:08:46] Tokyo was on Malolo and then our merge beach and Vati was on Naveedie's Beach which is the nicest most beautiful beach but it has the least amount of food so.

[01:08:58] Yeah, yeah no not much food.

[01:09:01] I went back on vacation because we did get Fiji tickets our season and so I went back and ended up taking a boat back to the island and I could not believe how much the vegetation had grown like in between seasons and

[01:09:20] Oh wow.

[01:09:21] The paths and stuff were overgrown almost and so much had changed just in that time I'm trying to think about what month I would have gone I can't remember up the top of my head but those beaches do grow back in between.

[01:09:35] Oh impressive I didn't know that.

[01:09:37] Yeah it was so cool.

[01:09:39] It was crazy.

[01:09:41] I know I know it was a weird thing because 34 did and then 35 didn't and then 36 did I think.

[01:09:51] Maybe we were one of the last ones I forget how that went but super thankful and I'm sorry that you guys don't.

[01:10:00] I could they could do a little bit better about keeping those things even before coming on and as you were listening to other episodes is there anything where you're like if I get the mic I want people to know this about me.

[01:10:18] I mean I don't know.

[01:10:19] I think I mean part of I think as well like you know looking back and reflecting on experience especially with identity and stuff like that like I realize like it shaped things in more ways than I would think because the other underdog underdog underburden in the veterinary world really is exotic animal care because you know so much of the resources within the veterinary community

[01:10:43] whether it's education, research, actual clinical practitioners most of that focuses on dogs and cats.

[01:10:51] And there's a small percentage that's like devoted to farm animals obviously but that's very niche thing but in terms of like pet animals and stuff like that there's very few people out there that are willing to see a bird, rabbit, any pig, snake, lizard, turtle you know.

[01:11:05] And so those are really the things that are kind of overlooked and not cared for.

[01:11:09] And so I think that also, you know, thinking back it's like, oh maybe I went into that and that interested me more in terms of like I want to pet a bird and I want to pet dog or cat you know is because it is kind of like the overlooked animal you know and I feel like we are kind of like the

[01:11:25] overlooked people so I think that is something that has been important to me and like really fighting for their veterinary care, for their education for them because it's so poor even in the vet college that I like actually that's another thing that happened

[01:11:43] like right before the show started airing to like a couple months before right before 41 started airing they closed down the exotic animal clinic in or the service in our vet college.

[01:11:55] And I was like that's devastating to not only all of the exotic animals and their owners in the province but it also cuts off education at the base for every graduating veterinarian who will not be exposed to those animals in a clinical setting

[01:12:12] to learn about them and to excel and be able to treat them. So not only are you taking away a service that is one of the only ones in all of Ontario and they were the only place doing a lot of advanced diagnostics and radiation and stuff like that.

[01:12:26] They were the only like that's how we taught students to go out and actually practice on them. And now you've taken that completely away and I remember like he's so mad and it was sort of like everything in my life like I was just angry all the time about that.

[01:12:41] And like I think it was because also there's this displaced like feeling of oh wow you're really like looking overlooking this group of animals and like that like is a bit triggering I think.

[01:12:52] And so that was like I had to at one point step away from like the petition and all the things that were happening to get it back just because it was like too harmful for me from a mental health perspective.

[01:13:02] But like I think that that is something that is not advocated for. And I think that I think there's a bit of identity overlap there weirdly that I wasn't aware of and then now I am more aware of it.

[01:13:15] But I think it's such a shame that that happened because it's really screwing everybody. And now when I see a rabbit that has like a chest tumor in these radiation that can do really well for like two or three years with radiation.

[01:13:30] I don't have anywhere in this province to send to send to New York and that's like not really fair. But that's another issue.

[01:13:39] Yeah, and if there are ways that people who are interested in learning more about the Muslim community or to be supportive or what to watch out for in the world how to speak up and what to learn.

[01:13:58] Do you have any suggestions? Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't think I have any resources per se. But I think that even like listening or knowing anybody and asking them about that experience is always going to be helpful if there's anybody close to you in your life.

[01:14:12] But I think in general, like, you know, we're all just people too. I think that, you know, especially with the media, the way it was, I mean, the thing is like, obviously nobody condones the horrible things that have happened at the hands of Muslims or other people in the world.

[01:14:27] But these are all people as well. And unfortunately, every community, every faith community, every non faith community, every person is unfortunately capable of bad things. And I think that if we all try to understand each other better, I mean, think in general, if we all try to be more understanding and more empathetic and give people the benefit of the doubt more than we do as a society, that we will be more successful at the end of the day.

[01:14:54] Well, I what what I do know is that you are a beloved beloved by the survivor fans and survivor community. And I've told a few people, you know, a few of my closer friends about who I'm going to interview ahead of time.

[01:15:09] And people were like, Oh my gosh, so excited. Wanting to play like you wanting to be like you. And just really, we're excited to hear from you today. So whatever you did, you did it just right.

[01:15:26] Yeah. Yeah. Well, shall we move into our rapid round questions? Some of which is rapid sometimes not but we'll go through. Okay, how many times did you apply for survivor?

[01:15:46] So I applied to survivor twice. The first time, you know, I thought, I remember I had been, you know, sometimes I heard advice of like, I'll just shoot yourself for two minutes and that should be good enough, you know, and I was like at the time, you know, I'm a Muslim, I'm an already Canadians were just like Canadians were just opened up the application process to them.

[01:16:09] It was, I remember I was actually in Atlanta and I was watching David versus it was the premiere of David versus Goliath just right after your season ended. And then they had just announced it that Canadians were on the fly so I was like, great, I pretty much sent in a tape within that month.

[01:16:24] And looking back, it was like the worst tape ever. And I'm not surprised I didn't get a call because I didn't really know what they were looking for. I thought they'd be like, I remember filming with a bird that was at work at like 9pm at night had been a really long day and I just shot me in this bird and I was like, I hate this job and I want to get out of here and I want to go on an adventure and go inside my work and quit.

[01:16:46] And like that was like not the right.

[01:16:48] The age all I want to get out of my current life, which is never, never a good approach.

[01:16:53] Yeah, and I thought I was like, oh, I can blindside my work and be like, I'm taking off for two months but like that's not what they want at all. They want people that are happy in their life that are enriched and this is going to be something that is additive to their life but not.

[01:17:07] And I didn't realize that at the time and I unsurprisingly did not hear back. The next year I did more of like multiple cuts and did more of a funny video and combined like I had my friend edit it together so it was not just one, a one shot take.

[01:17:24] And I didn't hear back from that either, but I was in for about 11 months and then I was about to submit a third video I was just trying to plan what to do and then I got this call from a Los Angeles number.

[01:17:37] And I was at my friend's house the same one that edited the video and I was like, this is either going to be survivor or it's going to be an air duct cleaning service.

[01:17:48] And I went upstairs and I took the call secretly and it was survivor. And I was like, wow. And then I felt like I had to redo my video because there were parts of it that just were not like on the energy.

[01:18:00] And so I read in parts of it and submitted again. And I just felt like I knew as soon as I got past the initial round where they were like K1 interview you like I zoom or whatever.

[01:18:15] I felt like after that first zoom interview, I was like, I know I'm going to be on even though there was like 10 more interviews. But I felt like at that point I knew I was going to get on.

[01:18:24] And it's just a feeling that I had. I think one thing that helped me was some of my interviews very short. So I felt like if they and actually you talked about this with Dominic I think but you know I would I remember I was supposed to schedule for an interview at eight o'clock or something and then like it was late.

[01:18:44] And then they got on the call with me and then it was over in like three minutes. And I was like, there's no way that if they didn't want me that they if they were unsure they would have spent longer with me especially when they're running 30 40 minutes late you know like that doesn't really

[01:18:58] So at that point I was like, okay, I'm sure that I'm going and I just need to like be prepared.

[01:19:04] And then you did all of your casting through COVID so yours was all virtual experience of going in person which is how it's really fun but

[01:19:13] There are some really great things and it's not so great things about it.

[01:19:18] Yeah, but I think I did. Yeah that so when you said that with Dominic where you know your interviews very short you're like this is my time I was like, I was like I relate to that I remember feeling that way at first but I'm like no wait that's actually a good thing and it ended

[01:19:33] You were more like Dom you had it figured out the shorter the better I didn't I didn't know that.

[01:19:38] So the CBS bios list the three adjectives that contestants get to use to describe themselves your three words which you gave out not too long ago were silly empathetic and shameless I think you literally used all three of those words and telling stories today.

[01:19:55] Would you choose to change any of these or add subtract.

[01:20:00] I think that they are pretty. I mean, I don't know I find it very hard to describe myself and I want to be like conceited or not accurate.

[01:20:10] It's getting putting yourself out there being wrong like that sucks. But I think that you know I would still agree with those terms but I do think that when I wrote those I was also in defense mode because like, you know use the word silly I

[01:20:22] Purvisly did not use the word funny or hilarious because I don't want to say that and then not be funny or hilarious to them you know so funny silly like you can't really argue that like I'm an idiot like that's normal.

[01:20:33] I would say empathetic would be like true for sure. And then shameless I do think that that is true so even though I'm like don't want to put myself out there for failure I still have come to a place where like I don't really care.

[01:20:48] I don't get embarrassed easily I would say something and actually weirdly getting voted out that was one time where I was very embarrassed. I don't know if you felt that way, but I felt like when I got my tort.

[01:21:01] You felt embarrassed.

[01:21:03] Very embarrassed. I was like, did you remind me if you were blindsided or if you were.

[01:21:08] I mean, I think looking back they were like very obvious clues and I remember some of those reflect I could think to myself that's that's a little bit weird.

[01:21:17] But you know Mary Ann at one point it said to me like we're going to enjoy us as she said on the last day.

[01:21:24] We're not ordering separately at Ponderosa we're going to share a pizza. We're going to share some chicken wings. We're going to do all of this stuff together.

[01:21:32] I'm not thinking in my head like firstly I'm not sharing any of my pizza with you. Secondly, I don't know why you're telling me this right now.

[01:21:40] This is a very weird out of character.

[01:21:42] And it was to make me feel very comfortable like I'll be there on day 26 and once she was blindsided me and I was like that's a little bit weird.

[01:21:50] And I would see Mike and Jonathan having conversations that they shouldn't have been having and I was like that's weird but I didn't want to be paranoid.

[01:21:56] I didn't feel like there were clues in hindsight.

[01:21:59] But being embarrassed was like the predominant emotion that I felt in that moment.

[01:22:03] I think my we had such different experiences leading up to it.

[01:22:08] I knew for three days that I was going to be next because after Chelsea's vote like it was very obvious and just because of Dom and Wendell just running the game which is what made it a boring season to some people.

[01:22:21] I knew it was me. The hardest part for me was I knew it was me for three full survivor days, which is a day off of reward day and then tribal which in new school era that's a bit.

[01:22:34] I mean you can imagine it but you guys don't do you get any days off.

[01:22:38] So we did get some occasional days off and they were so boring.

[01:22:41] But sometimes they were welcome because we're like we need some time to just chill.

[01:22:46] But I yeah we didn't we didn't have many.

[01:22:50] I think earlier on there were but towards the end of the game.

[01:22:53] There just couldn't have been with the time like we always went on the three day cycle so it was just it was just different.

[01:23:00] I mean Sebastian told me it was me Dom and Wendell told me Sebastian told me straight to my face.

[01:23:06] So I knew so embarrassment didn't come up for me in that in that specific moment.

[01:23:12] But if I had been blindsided I'm sure I would have.

[01:23:15] I wish I knew I was going home so I could like light it out but I should have done more than I did.

[01:23:23] But I mean getting the vote to tie you know whatever we can go through it but we won't today.

[01:23:28] Sometimes also like in that situation like the more you tighten that it's like that rope the more you tighten it the tighter it gets and what are you trying to do is just trying to be like lighting the match of Donathan.

[01:23:40] Which I did get him to vote for Dom and all this stuff so there were some things I did but yeah it was over.

[01:23:48] I had lost way before those three days so that made it a little bit easier.

[01:23:53] Okay what was the hardest part of the entire survivor experience from the day you submitted your first video to now and what was the best part so far?

[01:24:03] The hardest part I think you know in the game was definitely the rain.

[01:24:10] Like there was a period of 48 hours where it just pummeled rain the whole time and you're so cold and wet and you're getting like chafing and rashes and you're so cold and I've never.

[01:24:24] So everybody said growing up like you shiver to keep warm and I was like I don't even know what that means.

[01:24:29] I don't understand. I've never been in a situation where shivering made me warmer but in that situation like truly if you stop shivering you felt colder and it was it's like nothing I've ever experienced before.

[01:24:42] And I remember you had Malolo Beach or I was at the beach at that point but you know it was cold at Malolo when it would rain but that 48 hours of rain was on the other beach and it was just it was not there was nothing that could be relieving to that like you just have to see it.

[01:24:59] And you know you don't realize how strong you are into moments like that where you just suffer through and when daylight comes you're like it's still raining but at least stay like now like that's better.

[01:25:10] So that was probably the hardest part and then in terms of the best part like there's so many there's too many to name really like the whole experience of the game even in the worst moments was fun.

[01:25:19] And then you know weirdly enough like I did find that watching it back with family and friends and like having that experience with them and like reconnecting with old friends when talking to a while like that was really fun as well.

[01:25:29] And and then even after the game has been fun because you can now share in the community in a way that you never could before like hey oh Robby that came back in when you were able to go on the right or others a podcast is you submitted question before like I submitted question before too and like it was like crazy to have that full

[01:25:49] circle experience.

[01:25:50] Awesome I didn't know you were in the pre question.

[01:25:53] If you could go back and give yourself one piece of advice on day one of the game what would it be.

[01:26:01] I was.

[01:26:02] I would say I would give myself two pieces of advice that's okay but yeah the first one would be to just even though I had so much fun I would say to have more fun because you know during the game.

[01:26:15] I was extremely focused on winning and that was like the primary especially my head I wouldn't necessarily say it out loud but like I was like always like I have a thing to do I have a job to do I need to just get this done.

[01:26:28] And like everything was like moving into the direction of winning and and when I was not trying to do something to win I was just you know surviving in that moment.

[01:26:36] But I wish I just taken you know especially seeing someone like Carolyn and Jam Jam have so much fun on the island just those moments to just like embrace it like you know we stop going down to the beach to watch the sunset because we're too tired but it's like those are moments that you don't necessarily get back and you wish you just had fun with it while you had the chance and I wish that I would have just had more fun.

[01:26:56] I had a lot of fun but I wish I would have just embraced that part of it more being like it's more than just winning it's about the experience to and I think the other advice I would give is like try to really know yourself as best that you can and know where your pitfalls are because in a state where you're very deprived you are going to default back to who you are and it's if you don't know what the pitfalls of who you are are then you might overlook mistakes that you'll make.

[01:27:26] Because you're not aware of them and I think again for me avoidance was a big thing like I could have changed my own fate in the game had I been aware.

[01:27:36] Or more cognizant of the fact that I need to overcome the avoidance and like make an active effort even in your worst moments of tiredness to just do the thing that's uncomfortable for you because even if you know it's right like I knew it was the right thing to do and I still didn't do it.

[01:27:53] You know that is something that I think knowing what your weaknesses are is very important.

[01:27:59] Good ones, good ones.

[01:28:03] When you alluded to this earlier but maybe just like the definitive yes or no when you started on the mat on day one did you think you could win?

[01:28:15] So I did think that I could win on day one for sure but I didn't think I would win.

[01:28:22] I think there's a distinction there because it's just like you know I think if you look at it is there you know 18 people is that like 5.3% or something like that for an equitable win.

[01:28:34] I think that I probably had more than the equitable win percentage but I still that still is less likely to win than not you know what I mean like.

[01:28:45] Here we are on episode 10 of this show and I should have been asking the question differently did you think you could win and did you think you would win it's actually now we need 4B and 4C to get to the bottom of all this because the difference is so true it's tangibly true that there's a difference there.

[01:29:01] Yeah so I thought there's a decent chance that I could win but I didn't think that I would just because there's so much luck and everything involved as well.

[01:29:10] And it's like also I didn't know if I could live up to the elements and physicality of the challenges or if I would be in horrible disaster like I wasn't fully sure at that moment.

[01:29:18] The moment that I knew I would be okay and would go far and whether I won or not was by the end of day one when I realized I like really connected with the people in my tribe.

[01:29:26] And then the moment that I thought I would win was when there were 7 people left in the game.

[01:29:32] I left at 6 so maybe he's not thinking you would win.

[01:29:38] Other than Survivor what's your favorite reality TV show?

[01:29:42] Definitely the mole and the Anderson Cooper mole is like superior to everything else.

[01:29:48] Adam Klein had the same one so yeah people love that show.

[01:29:53] Where's your favorite place in the world that listeners could visit?

[01:29:57] Unfortunately I'm not very well traveled.

[01:30:00] I've only been to like outside of Canada and the United States.

[01:30:03] I've only been to Belize and Fiji but I thought Belize was amazing in terms of where I really want to go probably Australia and Africa would be number one and two.

[01:30:14] What is a book you've read that has changed your life?

[01:30:16] I feel like everyone's like don't ask me if I read a book.

[01:30:22] Unfortunately I haven't voluntarily read like a nonfiction book since like grade 7 or 6.

[01:30:33] I'm not a reader per se.

[01:30:36] I read so many textbooks and journal articles that I prefer not to read in my free time.

[01:30:42] So I would say the book that changed my life is probably like Avian Medicine and Surgery.

[01:30:48] I apply that every day.

[01:30:50] Wait Avian Medicine and Surgery?

[01:30:53] Yes.

[01:30:55] We'll see if we can link that in the show.

[01:30:58] That's what I do every day so that changes my life every day.

[01:31:01] I bet it did.

[01:31:03] What is your favorite podcast? Do you listen to podcasts?

[01:31:06] I listen to Rob as a podcast.

[01:31:08] And now that I have such a long commute to work it's like easy to keep up on the content.

[01:31:13] Nice.

[01:31:15] That's a feat.

[01:31:17] I also like the Dateline NBC podcast because I like True Crime.

[01:31:22] Oh yes so many people do.

[01:31:26] I'm a scaredy cat.

[01:31:28] I can't get into that but yours is the Dateline NBC.

[01:31:32] Yeah Dateline NBC.

[01:31:33] I mean it's just basically like the show that airs on Friday night but in audio form

[01:31:38] because I don't want to watch two hours on a Friday night.

[01:31:41] I can just listen to it on the car ride.

[01:31:43] There you go. Life Solution. Life hack.

[01:31:45] What song when you're not listening to Murder, what song are you listening to on your car ride?

[01:31:53] I guess right now.

[01:31:55] I mean I don't know.

[01:31:57] I don't listen to one song over and over again but I would say that and it changes from time to time.

[01:32:03] And right now I'm loving the Power Rangers original Power Rangers soundtrack because it's like motivating for me.

[01:32:11] I'm like yeah I'm going to win.

[01:32:13] I'm going to get it today.

[01:32:15] Okay so where can people find you?

[01:32:20] Do you have any projects you're working on?

[01:32:22] You want people to know about social media where they should find you?

[01:32:25] Quite the following.

[01:32:27] These new school people are I assume it's all survivor followers.

[01:32:31] Maybe you had a big vet following before.

[01:32:35] I did not have a following before.

[01:32:37] I would say that you can follow me on Instagram at OZahir24 Twitter which is also threads I guess and then Twitter at Omer ZahirDVM.

[01:32:48] I am studying a lot more recently so I'm probably less active online because I have an exam coming up but yeah that's where I am if you need to reach me.

[01:32:58] Great and do you have an organization that you like people to donate to who are interested in an exotic animal?

[01:33:08] Yeah I mean I would say that the organization that changed my life the most was probably Wild Ontario because it was that experience that really shaped the career that I ended up going down the path of.

[01:33:17] And so our Wild Ontario.ca is you know their nonprofit like organization that helps out non-releaseable birds of prey and uses them to educate the public on the human impact on wildlife and why all of those birds are in captivity because of something people did and they can't be released into the wild.

[01:33:39] So how can we educate people to prevent that from happening to other birds in the future and they do great work in terms of that and you know the coordinator she works her butt off to try to like keep the program afloat because you know it's not like they have a steady income per se but they go around to different places and so that can obviously help a little bit.

[01:34:01] So if you feel called throw five bucks to our wildontario.ca in the name of this show and Omer and the great work that you're doing to save the animal I love following you on social I never get your animal questions right.

[01:34:16] So many people answer you can't see because I'm a little bit nervous and embarrassed to answer the quiz question but I'm so I'm so badly want to know.

[01:34:27] I always check I always check and Chanel always gets them wrong. Sammy always gets them right but Sammy did admit to me that he looks it up and then answers it.

[01:34:40] And my mind has a very high percentage of correctness and actually so does Sarah wait. So those are the best ones at it and one of them is a cheater.

[01:34:50] And that's the dirt for the I'm just over here answering them all wrong but I wasn't cheating at least so.

[01:34:58] Well thank you for all the content I love seeing all the animals that you're taking care of and they all mostly seem to love you when you're not.

[01:35:05] I'm pricking them all too much.

[01:35:07] So thank you so much for being here with me today.

[01:35:11] I know how that vulnerable and all encompassing and just crazy it is to come and do these things when you are that close to playing.

[01:35:24] I really appreciate you trusting me with your story and your time today.

[01:35:28] It means a lot and I think it's going to give the listeners a different perspective to hear from somebody who's in your seat.

[01:35:34] Thank you.

[01:35:35] Thank you for having me.

[01:35:36] I really appreciate it and a big fan of the VD Strong.

[01:35:40] Thank you.

[01:35:41] Thank you.

[01:35:42] I've got my purple mic here.

[01:35:43] And I fell in my gut.

[01:35:47] Thanks Omar.

[01:35:48] We'll talk to you soon.

[01:35:49] Take care.

[01:35:50] Here we are.

[01:35:53] We've come to the end of the road to reality season one.

[01:35:58] Thanks to Omar for his willingness to come out on the show so fresh out of it.

[01:36:02] I wonder if you as listeners noticed any differences throughout the season on how people responded to the interaction between their lives and their reality lives depending on how far out of the experience they were.

[01:36:14] When I mentioned this idea of road to reality to Rob Cisterino many months ago, this idea felt like a glimmer in my heart.

[01:36:23] I knew the Survivor Castaway list was full of wonderful people with incredible stories, but each guest absolutely blew me away beyond my expectations.

[01:36:33] Their willingness to share was vulnerable and made this season so spectacular.

[01:36:40] I felt grateful each week getting to learn from each castaway.

[01:36:45] First from Chrissy about how we need to embrace each day with gratitude.

[01:36:50] From Dom in episode two, how getting to know someone who from the cover seems not to be someone you'd get along with.

[01:36:57] When you spend time actually getting to read many chapters inside the book, what you find in those pages may just be the makings of a lifelong best friendship.

[01:37:08] In episode three, my Survivor Fan Girl dreams came true getting to hang out with the Kelly Wentworth who reminded me we are all someone's fangirl.

[01:37:18] Adam Klein in episode four took me on a conversation that was a transformative experience for me.

[01:37:24] His impeccable words, storytelling ability and tenderness towards other people is something I want to work on every single day.

[01:37:33] And then we had PG giving us the five rules of a happy life and explaining how if we just take a moment to look around, we get to choose whether we see joy or misery.

[01:37:45] Gabby explained the intricacies of the psychological dynamics of being on Survivor and taught me about parasocial relationships.

[01:37:53] My favorite new vocab word from this entire series.

[01:37:56] Davy's energy and zest for life, his persistence and willingness to capital P L A Y play in this world as an adult.

[01:38:08] It's infectious.

[01:38:09] In episode eight, I got to hang with the winner of my season and pick his brain on how he just completely kicked my ass in PG.

[01:38:17] And the fact that he does this with so much patience and grace shows exactly why Wendell was a sole survivor.

[01:38:24] I'm lucky to know him.

[01:38:26] Then we traveled a long way to South Africa to gain a whole new perspective on Survivor with Dino Paolo.

[01:38:32] And he reminded us all exactly why we are all here because we truly love this game called Survivor so much.

[01:38:40] And the community we all have because of it is large, warm and worldwide.

[01:38:45] Then we completed today with Omer, the new school representative of season one of Road to Reality, who reminded us that Survivor really every time shows us exactly who we are and who we all are.

[01:38:59] Former contestants, future contestants, loyal fans is a bunch of adventurous people with full lives, bad days and good days, heartaches, joys, trials, hopes and dreams.

[01:39:12] And when we take just a little extra time to get to know one another beyond an edit on a television screen or a Reddit post or a Twitter feed, we're all humans with more in common than not.

[01:39:26] Thank you all for joining me on this Road to Reality. I hope to see you all along the journey again sometime very soon.

[01:39:34] Thank you again from the bottom of my heart for making my Survivor dreams continue to come true.

[01:39:43] I'd like to thank Rob Cisternino, Scott St. Pierre and the entire RJP crew for helping make this dream come true.

[01:39:49] Jillian Goodheart is the editor, Tricky Rice. Thank you for the artwork.

[01:39:53] To all my guests, thank you for your time, honesty, bravery and vulnerability. I'm thankful from the bottom of my heart.

[01:40:01] Thank you to my dear friend from Survivor Ghost Island, Jacob Derwin, for allowing us to use his songs, Mira from Manhattan, one of my favorite songs of all time and one I played on repeat for an entire year while I recovered from my own survivor journey.

[01:40:14] To you, the listeners who have made it this far, thank you for giving me and these multifaceted guests time in your ears as our whole selves.

[01:40:23] May each of your realities lead you down a road of peace, joy, community and a whole lot of adventure.

[01:40:30] And now here's Jacob Derwin with Mira from Manhattan.

[01:40:53] I'm a Columbus. It doesn't matter much to me. Now she's staring out the window. She's turning on the night.

[01:41:10] She takes a pen to her new novel. And the airplane takes flight.

[01:41:20] I never knew. I never knew. I never knew. I never knew you.

[01:41:41] We're flying out to Dublin just to stop along the trail. Mira hops from there to Paris. I ride to Belfast on the rail.

[01:42:21] Now she's cheering in the winery. I'm staring at the sea. Her name is Mira from Manhattan. It doesn't matter much to me.

[01:42:41] I never knew. I never knew. I never knew. I never knew you.

[01:43:19] I'm making a podcast. Can you even believe it? I can't.

[01:43:52] I'm a Columbus. It doesn't matter much to me.

[01:44:07] Now Judy's the life of the party. Oh baby, mama's bringing home the bacon. Whoa, take it easy, Judy.

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