Lisa Whelchel Talks Survivor 50 Ep 12

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[00:02:20] So you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cesternino back here. And I am so excited for this interview that I've wanted to talk to this person for many, many years on the podcast.

[00:02:46] And I'm so excited that we get a chance here during Survivor 50 to talk to somebody. It was, yeah, that the halfway point of Survivor. Who knew when we were celebrating the 25th season of Survivor that we'd be halfway to 50 when we got to meet this Hollywood star who decided to go and compete on Survivor. And now you can watch her on MeTV's Collector's Call. It's Lisa Welchel. Lisa, how are you? I'm really wonderful. How are you?

[00:03:17] It's so nice to get to catch up with you. I don't think that we've had the chance to catch up at all since you played on Survivor Philippines. And I was very happy to hear when we had the opportunity to talk to you during Survivor 50 and hear about what's going on with you. Yeah, well, you know, it really has been, I mean, I've been a fan from day one, and I've never waned my enthusiasm and passion and just enjoyment of the show.

[00:03:44] But of course, with Survivor 50, there's just so much around it that, you know, it's really nice to be a part of it. And to realize, I mean, Sam and I were just talking before we started recording, that it's hard to believe that season 25, it's been as long since season 25 as it was before the show even began. And maybe even longer because they took a year off in between. Oh, yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah, that's really hard to believe. Yeah, it is hard to believe.

[00:04:12] And so I'd love to get your thoughts on all things season 50. But how are you doing since, to give us the update, since we last saw you on Survivor? And I think that that was 2012 that Survivor Philippines aired. It was. Well, you know, to be honest, Survivor, it changed my life. Now, if you're lucky, if you're lucky, it does. It can change your life. And for me, it did. It broke me open.

[00:04:41] It broke open my own sense of who I was, who I called myself. And but then, of course, it leaves you broken and open. And then you're not on the island. You're dealing with that. And then it's a whole other wave when it airs. Yeah. And so it and then it just hit me again. It knocked me out. It knocked in all the best ways, ultimately.

[00:05:07] But in the process of it, I mean, I would probably most. I'm totally a geek for what makes people tick. I think. I think. For me, my ego structure that I had built to survive. Basically, childhood. It was assaulted on survival on Survivor.

[00:05:33] And whenever you are in a situation that feels like you are in danger or in threat, which, of course, on very many levels, you are. It feels like it on Survivor. Then you do revert back to your earliest survival strategies. Whatever worked for you to keep you safe as a child or whatever situation felt dangerous, you will just automatically revert back to those.

[00:05:59] But what happened was they weren't they were really no longer me. They were no longer working. And so I didn't really. Survivor was like, who am I? And I really do believe that on a subconscious level, that's why I signed up to be on Survivor.

[00:06:16] I think that I wanted permission to explore those parts of me that I had not allowed to acknowledge even to myself, to be bad, to be backstabbed, to betray, to lie, to prioritize money over relationships. That's that was not part of my good girl persona. Yeah. And so this was a way for me to do that. But it was also my identity.

[00:06:42] And so anytime a core identity just gets smashed, there is this this season of time where I'm not that, but I don't know who I am. So I use the opportunity of Survivor breaking me open and really the having it air and going through that, because when I was on Facts of Life, there was not social media. And so I didn't have I mean, I had my fair share of people commenting, but not like social media.

[00:07:10] And so that was a really another different kind of wave. Yeah. Immediately after that, I moved back to California to pursue acting again. And then I realized that's not that's that was no longer me either. So I took a year and in July of 2016, I went on a 30 day silent retreat in July of 2016. And then in August 2016, I went to Peru and I did four ayahuasca ceremonies.

[00:07:38] And then in September 2016, I walked the 500 miles of the Camino de Santiago. And then in January of the following year, I went to this one month just intensive kind of like get to all different kind of healing modalities.

[00:07:55] And I really kind of was able to I wouldn't even say rebuild myself because it felt it felt more like found who I was underneath who I had adapted to be in order to be OK in a chaotic situation of my childhood. So that's a lot of big answers. I mean, I mean, I got like 100 different things I could go off of there. You know, a lot of the there were a bunch of different Survivor alumni who recently like got together and had done ayahuasca.

[00:08:23] And, you know, were very powerful. Why wasn't I invited? No, I think that they would have loved to have you. Terrible experience for me. Oh, my gosh. But you did it four times. I did. Right. I'm such a glutton. Well, I'd signed up for four and they gave me the big dose the first time and it was just way too much. So they they cut me back to half a dose. Yeah. But even though it was it was with a shaman and all that in Peru. And so it was all.

[00:08:52] But again, it was just I was already broken open. And that just like, oh, let's just dig out the pus. Yeah. One other thing on that in terms of breaking you open. Yeah. I was curious as if if it was it the actual 39 days that you had in the Philippines that broke you open or was it people watching you on go through that on TV? That was the part that really broke you open. No, it was the 39 days.

[00:09:19] I mean, it really was the 39 days have being raw from that and then experiencing it. Because what happened was while I was on there, my own ego construct identity persona. Was broken and assaulted and questioned. And so that was already a very shaky. And I was felt raw and exposed. And so then but then you get. It starts airing.

[00:09:46] And then suddenly it's your worst literal nightmare that you wake up on stage naked. And that's what it felt like. Yeah. OK, I'd love to explore that more. But let's also, you know, talk about your thoughts here as we are in Survivor 50. And now we're culminating in the finale coming up next week. What have been your thoughts on the big anniversary season? I've loved it. I thought it's been wonderful. I've enjoyed it.

[00:10:14] It feels worthy of a season 50 anniversary. I mean, I can't say that I've loved all of the additions as much as I've really just loved the returning players. I mean, most of them are they just bring it. And it's like having the cream of the crop there as far as personalities go. And so and I've loved, you know, following and just on social media. And of course, Dalton Ross is, you know, I'm a huge just personal friend and fan of his.

[00:10:44] And so following all that he has, has he has offered for season 50. I've just enjoyed I've just enjoyed the ride as a fan. OK, I'm curious to know, did you get a call to come back for season 50? I did not get a call. No, interesting. I mean, well, I mean, I've gotten calls in the past and I've just said, you know, no. And it's taken I mean, first of all, it took me a long time to recover.

[00:11:10] And then by the time I'd psychologically recovered, I was old and out of shape. And so now I feel I'm in better shape psychologically. But I would I was already terrible at the challenges. Now I would be embarrassing at the challenges. So would you be interested in going back to Survivor or do you feel like that ship has sailed? You know, up until this very moment, you know, I've always said no. And I'm still going to say no.

[00:11:41] My joke has always been there's no way I'd do Survivor unless on some kind of parallel universe. I had to choose between going on Survivor again or going on Dancing with the Stars. And I would choose Survivor because that's how terrible a dancer I actually am. But so I'm probably still I would say no, mostly because I I just I do really do feel I'll be 63 in a couple of weeks. And I I'm I'm not in good. I'm not in fighting shape either.

[00:12:10] And so I think I would be embarrassed. You know, Lisa, I'm so curious to know, though, what was your origin story with getting on to Survivor? I know you said that you've been a fan the whole way through. What prompted you to get involved with wanting to be on Survivor at the particular point that you did? Yeah, great question. And the specific answer is I've always wanted to be on it from day one, but never it would not have been possible first because I had young kids at home. I couldn't leave for two months. And back then it was seven weeks to be gone.

[00:12:40] And then even after my kids got older, I was an inspirational speaker. So my my I was booked out about a year in advance. And so, you know, you kind of have to be able to be available on a drop of a hat to be on Survivor. So I was never able to do that. But what happened was I was touring with this speaking group and they changed the president step down. Somebody else came in and they got rid of the entire speaking lineup. And I had been booked for that following year.

[00:13:08] The president who stepped down. One of the things she used to always say is, you know, when a door closes or something disappointing happens, you know, just ask, well, what does this make possible? Yeah. And so I was talking to her and she said, well, what does this make possible? And what came to my mind is I could apply to be on Survivor because I have my kids are grown and I've got a whole year ahead of me.

[00:13:32] And so I that day made an audition tape and I actually put it on social media because I didn't really know where to it was very impulsive. Yeah. But I put it on social media and tagged, you know, I think CBS and Mark Burnett and Jeff Probst and just hoping somebody would see it and give me a call. And it worked. Yeah. And when you made the video, did they just contact you instantly and said, are you for real? Is this a joke?

[00:14:02] Yeah, I got an email probably about a week later and I didn't think it was real. Of course, I thought it was somebody pranking me. But they said, no. And can you come out to California in two days? We're having where they put you in a hotel and then you have to do all those tests and everything. And that was in two days. And I said, yeah, I'll be on a plane. So I was out two days later and went through all the tests.

[00:14:30] And one thing that was interesting about the testing is the is the psychologist said to me after she cast me, she said, you know, we almost didn't cast you because your testing does not really does not translate into good television. She said, you're you're conflict averse. You're shy. You don't speak up. You kind of like to stay in the background. She said, that's not good television. But we went ahead and took a chance on you. And so I'm glad they did. Yeah.

[00:14:57] You know, it really is amazing how well they really do nail it on all of these psychological tests. And they tell you things about yourself. It's like, how did you know that? I didn't tell you that. And they really it's it's it's uncanny what what they're able to do. Did you feel like that they were right? They're right. Yeah, they were right. Yeah, that is that is how I am in my everyday life. Very conflict averse. I mean, I've grown a lot.

[00:15:25] I've done a lot of obviously a lot of emotional work. I'm better at it speaking up. But I prefer to stay in the background. I will. And this actually did come up to that. It's they said your testing shows that you will speak up and you will come forward. But you're not going to be you're not going to. That's not going to be your first choice. And you're not going to be the first one that does it. And and that's true. Yeah.

[00:15:49] But I did feel like that in Survivor Philippines, I think that you struggling with that, I think, did make for interesting television. I hope so. My hope is that that someone recognized a part of themselves and me. And because there there was a resonance there that they would see that it is a struggle, but that it's worth it.

[00:16:16] It's worth it if you want to grow and if you want to change and if you want to transform, it's going to be costly. But it's worth it. Yeah. Lisa, since that point in time in Survivor, I do think that the show has evolved more to be about that thing that you're discussing. And really, you know, that you take somebody like Sari. And I really think that especially when she would come back and game changers and walk across the balance beam.

[00:16:43] I think that a lot of what the show has become about has been that journey that people go on to discover what's inside themselves. Absolutely. And I love the evolution of the game. I mean, it's it's it's never been stagnant. It's never been stale. It's always evolving in all different kinds of ways. And, you know, and also I I love to see the evolution of Jeff. I mean, this last season especially.

[00:17:08] And it's I think it's that's also inspiring, inspiring, because for me, each of the Survivor castaways is a Rorschach for me. I pay attention to which ones I love and which ones I hate. I pay attention to which ones annoy me and which ones I grow to appreciate. And when I really with with some intention, pay attention to it, I can learn about myself.

[00:17:36] And for instance, like, say, let's we're talking about Jeff. What brought this to my mind? I've seen on on some social media. Some people say, oh, come on, Jeff. This is about the players, not you. And, you know, pull it back. We don't want to hear your rap or whatever that is. And and I can I mean, I can get that. I can understand why they're saying that.

[00:17:56] But I think that's saying more about them than it is about Jeff, because I think that when a person is uncomfortable just being as free as Jeff, he's let himself just be his own enthusiastic, you know, affable self. And that's coming through. He's not controlled. He's not playing a part. He's not, you know, monitoring or filtering. He's much more wide open.

[00:18:22] And I think that can be threatening for people who it's threatening for them in everyday life to be open and to be their most authentic self. Lisa, please correct me if I'm wrong. But I just now that we're talking, I feel like in the back of my mind, I remembering that. Have you done a lot of work with the Enneagram? I have. Yeah, of course. Yes. I'm a geek about all that stuff.

[00:18:45] Well, that's, you know, and I find that it's very fun to talk about in terms of talking about the, you know, the when we talk about Survivor and obviously the the psychology and the personalities of the contestants. I always think that that's really, really fascinating. And so we'd love to get your insights into all the players as well. But you spent a lot of time with Jeff also outside of the show, right?

[00:19:09] Because I'm old enough to remember when you were when you were part of the Jeff Probst talk show. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I did. I did that for a little for for a season of time. And yeah, it was very fun. It was it was I was really I was really scared more much more scared. I mean, that has been that was right after Survivor.

[00:19:30] And I was still pretty insecure and a little bit scared and not really, I guess, even to what I just said about Jeff, not able to just be open and let, you know, let my freak flag fly. And and so that made it a little bit more nerve wracking because it was, you know, just kind of basically live and you and there was not scripted. And so there I enjoyed it. But it also was very vulnerable.

[00:19:56] And there was there was some there were some times where I was probably too vulnerable. That was not was not good for television. And there are other times that I probably paid it played it too safe. And so that's that's one of the things about being a performer or being in the public is we all need to grow. But growing is messy and you can't change unless you're vulnerable and vulnerable being vulnerable is scary.

[00:20:22] And so when you're doing all that in the public eye and people are weighing in on it, that's a whole nother layer of really just incentive to not incentive to play it safe. Yeah. And I think it's a great lesson that we've had in this season with Rick Devins coming back to Survivor. And that I think that really the ethos of Rick has been not playing it safe. And Rick is also having fun.

[00:20:51] And I think that when Rick is somebody that we're watching him on television and when he's having fun, I think that we're having fun. And I do think that where, you know, we're sort of like we're purists and we want the game to be a certain way. But I think if Jeff is having fun, I think also then I think that the players are having fun and hopefully the audience is having fun. Yes. And let the game evolve. Let the game change.

[00:21:17] And most of the time, most of us are resistant to change at first. That's just because it's scary. You know, it's different. Our survival system, our nervous system says, oh, wait a minute. I'm not familiar with this. This must not be safe. So it takes a little time to kind of catch up.

[00:21:34] And so I think we can all fully trust Jeff and the powers that be to trust that they have the best interest at heart as they have let Survivor evolve. And they're going to have some successes and some things they may rethink. But, you know, so far, I think they've done a pretty good job. I mean, it has been on 50 seasons. Yeah. When it comes to my eyeglasses, I've put them off way longer than I should have.

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[00:25:22] So tell us about this season and what your reaction has been to watching so far to this point and some of your favorites in season 50. Oh, man. There's so many favorites, really. And I've never been in a Survivor Fantasy League before. And I've got some friends in Tennessee and they reached out and they had a Survivor Fantasy League. So my husband and I both did that for the very first time.

[00:25:50] And see if you can guess who me, the only one who's actually been on Survivor, guess who my pick was. Jenna Lewis? Yes. Yes. Yeah. But look, I thought she was going to do well also. I think that she was just, she came in with too much of a game face. She was like too ready to go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, yeah. So that's been, that has still been fun. Being just kind of a super fan in that way.

[00:26:19] Um, I mean, it, I, I look forward to it every night for every Wednesday night. I, I will have to say I am still, you know, mourning and eating my feelings about Sari being voted off. She was, oh, I was so invested in her winning. It would have been like the perfect season 50. She needed to win for it to be perfect. And it's still wonderful, but, oh, that was a tough one.

[00:26:49] You know, survivor is not perfect. Uh, that's, that's, that's, that's the issue. I guess we have been talking about that. Yeah. You know, but Sari is such an interesting person in the history of survivor. And, you know, I think that's what Sari shares in common with you, obviously, uh, that you both are part of the long history of the mom archetype of survivor. And we've seen so many different types of mom, uh, that one of the few survivor moms that

[00:27:18] has won the show actually was in your season in the Philippines, uh, with, with Denise. And I think it's such a big part of, you know, your story about how people talk about the moms of survivor. So it's, it's interesting that, you know, you, you, between you and Denise and, and Sari, you know, you have three, uh, very different types of moms. Very different. Yeah. Very, very different. Um, but yeah, you're right.

[00:27:44] And I, and I'm, I can only hope that that is inspiring to moms, even if they don't send in an audition tape. There is something about living vicariously through someone you're rooting for. Um, there's, so there's a lot of neuroscience about, um, you don't even have to have really experienced something. If your brain gets activated with the emotions and with the envision of it and the feeling of it, uh, it, it can still have a similar effect as being on there.

[00:28:13] Although of course I tell everybody, you know, the way you imagine it is, and then it's exponentially worse. Truly. It's exponentially harder than it appears on television. Yeah, absolutely. Um, do you feel like that for the survivor viewer, uh, they could imagine themselves out there and get any of the benefits of being on survivor? Yeah, I do. I, I absolutely do. I think, and it's probably a good baby step toward that.

[00:28:42] I think if someone, I mean, Sari's a great example. If you're someone, you're just kind of, your life is more just on the couch and you go to work and, um, nobody's going to be even interested in watching survivor. If there's not a part of them that would like to be that. Yeah. Otherwise they're not going to tune in. It's not going to be interesting. And if you get people who've watched every single episode, or if you've watched for years or so many people started binge watching during the pandemic and they've watched all of them

[00:29:12] or you, I mean, my husband and I, we are the ones we've watched every season of Australian survivor. Oh really? Look at you, Lisa. South African survivor. I mean, we love Nico. We love, you know, JLP. We're, we're okay. We're, we're kind of warming up to David, but I mean, we're, we're bought into this. Yeah. It's incredible. Because there is a sense of, I want to push the boundaries. I want to be taken to my limits. I want to live an adventure.

[00:29:41] That's so people who have that in them will be attracted. And if they don't, they're not going to watch the show. Was Ceri's story of the woman who got up off the couch in any way inspiring to you to go out, to go play survivor? No, because I was already the woman who gets up off the couch, you know? I mean, that was, that was already. And I don't mean that as like that you were home doing nothing, but as somebody was purely a viewer of survivor.

[00:30:09] Yeah, probably not because I really already had, I've, I've always been of the mindset. I want to do that. Okay, let's do it. That's kind of just been my go-to. Yeah. It's really been amazing to see that she's done this so many times and come up just short in so many of these other seasons. Do you, is there a world where do you think that she could come back and not have this

[00:30:38] heartbreaking end on Survivor? Yes. I mean, it's a, it's a far-fetched universe, the world of another universe, but she could have, she could have this time. In my opinion, had Ozzy played his idol, I do think that Ozzy and Tiff would have been loyal and the three people who really were loyal could have gone to the end.

[00:31:06] I don't think Rizzo ever would have been loyal, but he probably would have stayed to the, you know, long enough to get them to the point where they could get rid of him. Yeah. I think that, but she would have to find two people that are willing to put loyalty over a million dollars and those people are rare. Yeah. So it's such a good point about, yeah, uh, that Ozzy got voted out and I forget that he had the idol and he could have just played. And Cerise seemed angry with, with Ozzy this week, uh, that she like had, was calling him names.

[00:31:35] And I wonder if part of it was just like, uh, like, uh, why, and why didn't you play your idol? Like, I think she was mad at him for that he had loose lips, but also I think part of it was just like, all you had to do was play the idol. Would have changed everything. I was really surprised at that, you know, confessional where she was saying, you know, if I had known you had two brain cells to put together, I didn't know I was signing up with an idiot. And that was really kind of surprising to me to hear her say that.

[00:32:02] But, but then thank, I mean, I do have the point of reference as you do that when you're in that situation, you haven't eaten and you haven't slept and there's paranoia and you're really counting on, on something and, and they don't do it. I mean, you don't have the, uh, the, the typical, um, resources to like, okay. To think through, okay, well, he did save me. He did give me this, uh, vote and he did do that.

[00:32:28] And you just don't have that resource on hand because you're just stripped bare. Whatever you're feeling is going to come out. And she was right to be feeling that in that moment. Yeah. You know, you brought up Rizzo and I'm sort of reminded of back. There was another person who played two seasons in a row, uh, who was a young guy around that same age. Now you played with Malcolm. He had an idol and never played it. Yes. Yes. And so you played with Malcolm.

[00:32:56] You played with him on the first of his two back-to-back seasons, but here's Rizzo on the second of his back-to-back seasons. Do you see any similarities between Rizzo and a guy like Malcolm? I see some, but not, not many. Yeah. I mean, I think obvious ones, but, um, Malcolm was smoother, you know, Malcolm Rizzo is so

[00:33:21] just almost a caricature of, uh, flamboyance and arrogance and, and Malcolm was not like that. Yeah. Um, Malcolm played it much cooler than Rizzo. Yeah. You know, he's somebody that, and he comes back a third time and then he plays on Survivor Game Changers, uh, which is also a season that we've talked a lot about between Sari and Aubrey. Uh, he was there with both of them.

[00:33:47] And then I thought he would have been such a good fit to have in Survivor 50 that don't you think that they need to bring Malcolm back again? I, I do. I mean, I, I mean, like many viewers had questions about the, the makeup of the season 50 feeling like there were, you know, too, too many loaded seasons of the new generation of three people from a tribe.

[00:34:14] I didn't understand that, you know, just as it makes sense to me, there were so many more you could, there's so many great players. I think, um, Malcolm instead of Rizzo would have been great. Um, I didn't think Savannah needed to come back. Uh, I didn't think Joe needed to come back. I mean, there was just people that I just thought, really? Uh, I'm sure they had their thought process, but they're also, I would have loved to have seen Penner instead of Joe. It's just more entertaining. Yeah. We would have loved to have seen Penner come back.

[00:34:44] And I think that they were talking to him and ultimately they ended up, I think they just, they really wanted to bring back a lot of the, uh, the new people from the last 10 seasons really to highlight the new era. And I think that maybe I could kind of see that they wanted, they said, Hey, we have the old legends, but they're getting maybe a little long in the tooth. We need to build up the new legends for whatever the next 50 seasons are.

[00:35:12] But I just, you, you had all these other, you could bring those people back anytime. Like this was maybe the last time you're going to have a chance to bring back a Jonathan Penner. Well, I also think that there are, um, there are still of the pool of the new generation. There are still other players that didn't have to be such a cluster of players from each season that they could have brought, brought back for a little bit more diversity across seasons.

[00:35:40] Uh, there's always going to be a standout in every season, even if it's a dud of a season, there's going to be a standout player. Yeah. You could have brought back. Lisa, I'm so impressed with you. You really tapped in. I'm a big fan. Yeah. I really, uh, that I, I, I thought maybe you were just like casually following all of this over the years, but no, you really know your stuff. Well, you know, you, you put time and invest time in things you enjoy. Yeah.

[00:36:07] So I'd love to hear your thoughts about Joe because he's had such an interesting ride in this season where, and my mom was the biggest Joe fan in survivor 48. She couldn't sing enough of Joe's praises and Joe came back and obviously he went all the way to the end, but didn't win. And he lost to Kyle and he came back. And I think he was a little, a little wounded from that.

[00:36:35] People were, were not being 100% honest with him in that game. And then in this game, he seems to not be having that much fun. And it's been a totally different story for Joe. Yeah. I do think that there is, um, you know, for Rizzo and Savannah coming back to back, they're younger for one thing. I mean, not that Joe's old, but survivor has a toll on you physically, psychologically, mentally, in every way.

[00:37:05] It's a lot to even to be asked to come back from even, you know, season 48 for, for Joe. I think you're right. He was still kind of wounded. It takes time to heal from those kinds of things. And then if you have the same wound stepped on again, uh, just a year later, it's going to hurt. And so, you know, Joe was, he was a breakout star in, in that season. Um, you know, the, the, just one of the most iconic moments of survivor history and will

[00:37:33] be, will go down, you know, with, with, with Joe. But I, and he, but he played the same game as he is now. Um, it's just that, you know, he had that other layer, uh, kind of too hot that, that had the sparkle. He never had the sparkle. Uh, he just hitched up with a sparkler and brought some love, which in compassion, which

[00:37:58] again, he was representing, I think every player represents an aspect of people who are watching. And so, uh, whether, uh, you know, whether you, you feel like you, you need that kind of presence is like Joe in your life. You're going to be drawn to that. But right now Joe was showing up as a, as kind of not a real survivor player. It's like, and, and I'm going to stop for a moment and say, and I, maybe I'm just too

[00:38:25] much of a psycho geek, but I really have spent some time. What is it about Jonathan that annoys me? What is it about Joe that I just want to go, come on, dude, you know what you signed up for? Uh, and a lot of it has to do with the fact that I recognize myself. I would, I would have so been part of that honor integrity Alliance. I would have absolutely, it was made for me and I would have had the same response and

[00:38:51] I would have been like, you know, Hey, we got to be loyal and we have to be honest. And, and that is a part of me that now I look back on and I, and I, you know, I think, Oh man, come on. It was just a game, Lisa, you know what you signed up for. So, but I have to have compassion for that part of myself, which then helps me have a little bit more compassion for Joe. But I think it's so interesting when we take a look at the 50 seasons of Survivor because

[00:39:18] where, and you know, I always like to quote Jonathan Penner when he said to you about, he said, I'm like a storyteller and who are the good guys and who are the bad guys? And, and he talked about that. Uh, it was such a great moment. It's such a great moment in your season, but when we go back and look at Survivor from the beginning, that the people who are, who are playing that way in season 50, those would

[00:39:44] have been in season, in season one and two and three, that these are, those are the good guys. So those are the people who are, you know, uh, saying that, and even though that they're not, they, they are telling some lies and they are trying to trick people as we've seen, but those, um, those tent poles, I think would have gotten the fans on their side. And I think that as, as you're saying, and I think many fans are feeling like that's not what we want to see on Survivor.

[00:40:11] We want to see people who are really going for it and trying to win and not necessarily are being bad people, but are playing the, you know, are using everything in their power to win the game. I hear you and I agree with you, but another aspect is, I think it's not that, at least from my perspective, I don't begrudge somebody wanting to play a game of honor and integrity.

[00:40:37] I just don't want them having a poor attitude or a judgmental attitude about somebody who plays it more ruthlessly. Fair. And that's what I'm kind of picking up. It's like, they're thinking their way is the right way. And that any other way there's judgment. And I just don't think that's fair. I think there should be room for all different ways to play this game. The more, the merrier. And if you, if you're somebody who knows, you know what, I need to stay under the radar

[00:41:04] and I need to just slide through to the end and not make big moves. Otherwise I'll get knocked out. That is a strategy. Um, and it should not be shamed because if you're not somebody who can make big moves or win a lot of challenges, um, then you've got to play to your strengths. And if your strengths are to be invisible and end up at the end, well then sell that. I made the choice to be invisible and, you know, and make it to the end rather than people think, well, they didn't deserve that.

[00:41:33] I question that. So let's talk a little bit about Aubrey who has had a journey that is not unlike what you're describing. And you said that all of these players are a Rorschach test. So what's been your reaction to Aubrey in season 50? Well, you know, I think Aubrey's, um, season 50 journey is going to activate lots of different parts of us because she's been all over the place.

[00:42:02] You know, she started out this season being kind of like you were thinking, man, is, is she okay? Is she going to be able to do this? Is, is her psyche like just a little bit fragile because she doesn't seem to be solid. Um, and she seems very emotional and very all over the place and she can't find her people and she can't find her place.

[00:42:27] And, but then she's actually, she's actually used that and just kind of, she's just like, okay, I'm not going to have a ride or die. Uh, I'm going to, I'm going to have one for a little bit and I'm going to change, which I know is part of the new season. Um, but she's also just like, I think she's owned her scrappiness and I've liked seeing, I've liked seeing that.

[00:42:54] I think she really has, okay, I'm not given a lot of good cards right here. So I have like a couple of sevens and you know, and a five and a four that, that does not look like a good hand. But if I can get another seven and another five, well then at least I have a full house. And I think that's what she's done. Yeah. It's been impressive to watch her maneuver in the post merge, especially as she's been

[00:43:21] the underdog, but I think she's been like the less flashy underdog where Tiffany is really starting to pop in terms of what she's done in the challenges. I think that Aubrey has sort of been consistently moving in the right direction under the radar. Yeah, I think, I think you're right. And I think she has, um, it's like her sonar is tuned in a little bit more heightened to know where she can actually, oh, okay.

[00:43:51] There looks like that might be something I can, I, I can, you know, take advantage of, or I can sign in for. And so I think she, and I think she's had to, I do think that, I think Tiffany has, she's got a great personality. She's obviously great at the challenges and I think she has some friends on the jury. Um, and I, my heart would prefer her to win just because I like her more than I've, you know, drawn to Aubrey.

[00:44:19] But between the two of them, I do kind of think Aubrey has played a tougher, has had her, has been ahead to head into the wind more. Yeah. It's hard. I think also in survivor in the new era, I think the players are so smart that I really think that, that likability is a liability. And I think that that's one of Ceri's biggest problems is that she doesn't win the challenges at the end and everybody knows how beloved she is. And everybody's like, I'm not, I'm not going to go to the end with her.

[00:44:48] And I think that Tiffany kind of has that too, where that everybody's like, oh, well, she, everybody likes Tiffany. And you kind of need to have be like a little, like more rough around the edges, I think to get to the end. If you can't win out that you need to have people like be able to kind of like, you need to really be a diamond in the rough where people like, oh, they, she, she has a lot of flaws. Like he, no, but not everybody likes him to be able to get to the end.

[00:45:16] No, I think that makes, that makes a lot of sense. And I think that there, when you're sadly being likable is not as respected as being strategic and this, you know, especially in the newer generation, in the new era of survivor, people do vote more for who they respect more than who they like. Yes. Yeah. No, respect is, so is, is the right word because I, I do push back when people get into

[00:45:42] too much talk about the resume of like, what were the moves that you made? And I think it really comes down to a lot more to the combination of the, of the two things of the, yeah, moves, but also likability. And I think that that overlap is respect. Yeah, no, absolutely. And I, and Hey, listen, I think that is a great criteria for being named a sole survivor. Chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month.

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[00:48:37] Well, yes, I did. I liked Kyle and Camilla. I know that they were both on the same season, but I liked both of them, and I was sad to see them go so quickly. Um, I, um, uh, I liked Charlie. Of course, Christian. Um, yeah, let's see. Um, I mean, I guess those were my favorites. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[00:49:02] So, from this group of the final five, do you have one person in particular that you're most rooting for? I don't. No. It's kind of wide open. The people that I was most rooting for, they're not there. Um, I, I, I really don't. I, um, I mean, and it is one of those things where some seasons, at least from my perspective,

[00:49:30] some seasons, there, there are some seasons that you think the winner is like, yes, they, you know, I'm so glad, you know, you really wanted them to win. And then, but then a lot of seasons, and I will even say, you know, the season I was on with Survivor, uh, Philippines. The one who really, the ones who really, I mean, not that Denise didn't deserve it, but Malcolm deserved it, you know? I mean, he really did.

[00:49:55] And so many of the ones who really deserve it get voted off fourth because they're the ones that everybody know we can't sit next to them because they deserve to win. And, you know, I don't know that that's fixable, but it is, it's regrettable when either they don't win a challenge that, that might, the challenge they need or fire making, or they don't have somebody who's going to take them to the end, even though they know they can't win against them.

[00:50:19] So sometimes there are seasons where it feels like, um, you know, the, uh, the, the, the ones that weren't threatening enough to be voted off end up on at the end. Yeah. With Malcolm, it really is, you know, when you look back in hindsight where, you know, he, and I remember, you know, uh, being there at the night of your finale and he was,

[00:50:44] he had two chances in that challenge where it's the final four and, and he ultimately he doesn't do it. And it's sad, but you knew he's coming back in the next season and you felt like, okay, well, listen, that he's got plenty of time, you know, one of these times, like, uh, he'll get there. And then even in game changers that he was everybody's winner pick, okay, he's going to come back and win this season. And it doesn't happen then.

[00:51:10] And it really is with some of these great players that they're so close and they, they didn't get there. And then it's almost like it becomes like impossible for them to ever get there. Cause then people know how good they are. Exactly. Cause each time you come back, uh, you have a stronger headwind of people knowing, well, you're not going to be brought back that many times if you're not good. And, you know, and you've, in your game, you've, you've played all your different games and

[00:51:39] people know your games. And so it does make it, that makes it also all the more remarkable that Sari made it this long. Yeah. I mean, that, that is a testament to whatever voodoo magic she's got going on is impressive. Yeah. You know, Lisa, you pay such close attention to Survivor around the world. You know, there's been a lot of talk about what is Survivor going to do beyond Survivor 50?

[00:52:03] Do you have any things that you would like to see Survivor do as it heads into its 51st season? You know, I don't think that I, I mean, to be honest, I'm a person that typically has a lot of ideas and, and a lot of opinions, but I just really have so much trust in the Survivor team.

[00:52:29] They've done, I mean, who's going to offer opinions to a franchise that just celebrated its 50th season? A lot of people in this, in my line of work. Well, I'm not going to be one of them because they're doing something right. This season, which is the 50th is as enjoyable and as captivating, as entertaining and new and bringing new things as, you know, as just the originality of the first one.

[00:52:58] So I'm going to just, it's, it's in the hands of the right people. Okay. Now, would you cast a vote for the see a fan favorite award? I would. Yeah. I mean, obviously, cause I wanted, so yeah, I would say yes. Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yeah. So that way it was at that time, this is, uh, uh, yeah. Great to bring, bring this up. You, you won the sprint. It was, what was it?

[00:53:26] The sprint fan favorite award, right? Right. An RIP sprint. Yeah. Uh, I like the, I, oh, I thought you were meant of the, the actual concept, not this one right here. Oh yeah. I, I, the concept needs to come back. Yes. Because I do believe that often the player that the, you know, the fans are rooting for doesn't win.

[00:53:54] And I feel like if this is a player that is the fan favorite, they have given to the franchise of survivor. They have given, they have, they have, um, helped the ratings of that season. Yeah. They have been captivating enough for fans to tune in and want to, cause they like this person. Then I do think, I mean, I don't, this is a little hard. I think survivor owes them a hundred thousand dollars. They they've made more than that.

[00:54:22] If there's a, if there's one player that the fans really like, then I think they need to be rewarded by survivor because that's benefiting. And so I think that concept needs to come, come back. And it's wonderful. I love it. The sea is doing it or they have the, you know, they have the branding of, of sprint, but when they don't. Survivor has pony up. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. I agree. I agree. Yeah. We should do it. We should, uh, we should bring it back and we should do it.

[00:54:51] And, uh, you know, we don't need to just, uh, like have poor Sia pony up the money for it. By the way, did you see Sia on jury duty, uh, company retreat? I heard about it. I heard about it. It was awesome. Yeah. She did such a good job. Yeah. Yeah. It's so funny. I realized I just said, well, I'm not going to offer anything as survivor. They know what they're doing. And then I'm just here saying, come on survivor pony up and pay some fan favorite money. Listen, they got Mr. Beast paying a million dollars.

[00:55:18] They got Sia paying a hundred thousand dollars to the fan favorite. So listen, they, they, maybe they know what they're doing. They've got all these people stepping up to pay out money for the show. That is a good point. But yes, I already voted for Suri. Okay. All right. You know, it was a tough one for me between Devin's and Suri, uh, because I do think Devin's really has embodied the spirit of survivor 50. And I think Devin's is giving somebody a million dollars because he, you know, called

[00:55:47] heads on the coin. So that was tough, but I don't know. I just love Suri. I just wanted, I just, I could only vote once. I had to vote. I know you'll get one vote with this. And I think that those are going to be the top two. I think that for Suri, I think it's a little bit more of a lifetime achievement award for Suri. I think you're right. You're right. It's oftentimes the Oscars. That's, that's the way, you know, people have been nominated four times and they're finally nominated.

[00:56:14] And maybe it really wasn't the best role they've ever played, but for goodness sake, this person deserves an Oscar. And this might've been the best game she played. Oh, I think so. Let me tell you a funny story about Suri. I'm out here on the patio. I hope the lawn people, you can't hear. It's beautiful. Yeah. Okay. Uh, well, thank you. Um, I don't, I'm changing rooms. I don't have a background upstairs in my office. And so I thought, well, I'll just show the patio. But here's the funny thing.

[00:56:38] Um, we fixed up this patio a couple of years ago and we would sit out here, but we always got mosquitoes. And so I just called up this company, this mosquito squad place, and they sent somebody out here to install this mosquito thing. And my husband called me and he said, Lisa, get out of here, get out here. This guy, his mother was on survivor. And I told him, I told this Kim that you're, that you were on survivor too. And I said, really? Who's your mother?

[00:57:06] And he said, well, have you heard of Suri? And it was Suri's son. Yes. Isn't that a small world? That's, that's wild. I know. I know. I know. And he said, he said, well, don't tell anybody. And he was telling me that, um, that they think they were going to be doing big brother or something like that together. But so anyway, yeah. It was Jared. Yes. Jared. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:34] He just, he's installed our little mosquito repeller. And it works great. Right. You know, he got out of this business and did something else was probably a good idea because, uh, they're, they're still, they're still biting us. All right. Well, listen, uh, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see what we're going to do next.

[00:58:01] Lisa, would you ever consider, uh, any other types of, uh, competition reality shows? Like, uh, like for instance, what about the traders? Would you ever do a show like that? You know, I wouldn't say never on that. I wouldn't want to be the trader. Uh, that's, I just would not. That's what I said. Really? Did you? Yeah. But then I said, you know what? I wish I would have been the trader. That's what I said after. Okay. All right.

[00:58:29] Well, I, yeah, I can, I can probably have more control if you're the trader. That would make sense. Um, but you know, can I be just forthright with you? Sure. I, um, I don't like getting dressed up at all. Oh. And so survivor, that was my jam, you know, just two outfits. You know, you just get in the ocean and you wash, you wash off with some sand and you just wrench there out a bit.

[00:58:56] But so really, oh, the whole idea of all, they get all dressed up for breakfast. Come on. What's the deal with that? Do not, not interested in that. I know it's a silly thing, but it's part of it. That's so funny. Lisa, I want to go back to you if we could about the Enneagram. Have you seen anything in your history of watching Survivor where your knowledge of, uh, how the Enneagram works has given you any additional insight into a player that you've seen on the show?

[00:59:26] I don't think I have. I don't know that I have. I think, um, for one thing, the Enneagram, when you go deep and it sounds like you have. Medium. People. Okay. Um, like for instance, they tell you to take the Enneagram test, but no matter how old you are, to take it from your perspective of when you were in your 20s, because that's when your ego structure is the most engaged.

[00:59:54] Um, so like for instance, I'm an Enneagram three. Enneagram three, you know, I am an achiever. I am a planner. I am efficient. You know, what's the plan? How are we going to get there? Let's get her done. Um, that was my, and if the Enneagram, your number is basically, it's going to identify what your deepest core wound fear is, but also how you, what you constructed to avoid that.

[01:00:21] So for me, uh, as a three, shame is the deepest core. And even deeper than that is fear because, uh, the six inner child is, is fear. That's a whole nother deep level of it. But, um, but when the three starts going to health, they don't need the approval. They don't need the achievements. They don't need the outside telling them, oh, you are worthy.

[01:00:48] And so I, I am a classic Enneagram three, but I don't show up as an Enneagram three now, but that's just, so I think it's difficult to peg people and their numbers because it, depending on where they are in their level of health, they're going to show up really differently. For instance, an Enneagram eight goes to two in health. So an eight is the challenger. It's just like, you know, I'm going to tell you what it's, what it, what it, I'm going to be abrupt.

[01:01:18] I'm going to be blunt. I'm going to tell you like it is. A two is someone who's really aware of other people's feelings. So a healthy eight is going to look like a two, but you don't realize, no, they got some fire in there. They've just learned to mix that with some, with some empathy and some love. Yeah. And I didn't realize any of that in terms of that. So, uh, thank you for, uh, letting me know. And I think it's. What is your number?

[01:01:46] Um, my number, I am a nine, Lisa. Oh, I'm married to a nine. Nines are the best. That's what I say, but my wife is an eight and she says they're not. So what are you going to do? I did not say being married to a nine is the best. No, uh, an intimate relationship with a nine is both the coziest, most comfortable, just the most cushiest, wonderful situation.

[01:02:14] It's also very frustrating because you want the nine to just, you know, get up and make a move. And so it can be both. Mm hmm. Yep. But when, what, when we're healthy, we're like you, we're three. That's right. Yeah. That's right. Exactly. And you know what? You have got all these podcasts and all this business and you've just written a book. So I would say you absolutely are a very healthy nine.

[01:02:42] Um, at least in my work life, Lisa. Okay. Maybe not. Let me tell you something. I did actually an Enneagram retreat at Esalen with, um, uh, you know, with Russ Davis, with Russ Davis. And he, I said, I raised my hand. I said, you know, I think I'm a three, but, um, I'm not quite sure. And he said, look, if you've ever admit, if you've ever admitted to yourself, you're a three, you're probably a three.

[01:03:10] Cause you know, they threes can't get a bad rap. Threes in one book, but, and eights. Um, but he said, here's the thing. If you do want to go to your arrow, which is for me six in health, but you also have to go back to the, to your place of what would be considered unhealth. And you have to capture that. So for me, a nine is just being, it's not trying to be special. It's not trying to achieve anything. Well, that was never afforded me as a child.

[01:03:40] I moved to California when I was 12 and I was on my own and I was making money. So there was never really a time in my life where I could just be and not be special and not accomplish anything. And, uh, I'll have to say that's been the most healing aspect of my marriage to my husband, who is a nine is his, he has given, he, I never watched television until I married him except survivors. The only TV show ever watched. He taught me the glories of binge watching television.

[01:04:07] He taught me the glories of cannabis and munchies. He taught me the glories of, uh, you know, of just great funky music and reggae. And so he really helped me go back and get what I didn't get as a nine. Wow. This took a turn. Uh, I had no idea that we were going here. Now we're having fun. Oh, I know. And there's not even cannabis involved.

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[01:06:39] Lisa, you were telling me before we came on that you've also been writing about your survivor journey from Survivor Philippines. What's that been like? Yeah. I... It's been really good because, again, it's a whole other layer. There's the layer of surviving it. There's the layer of watching it. And then there's a layer this many years later of writing about it.

[01:07:07] And because I'm at a place where, having done this work, that I'm not so filtered and not so afraid, I can be more honest about really what was going on. And, you know, most people didn't realize that the... I was married for 23 years and the divorce papers were signed, I think, on March 1st. And I believe I was on the island on March 9th. Wow.

[01:07:32] And so I was fresh off this very difficult divorce. And so there was a lot going on that I was deconstructing my fundamentalist evangelical Christian belief system. Because that had really been... There was a fissure through that foundation, through the divorce and what led up to the divorce.

[01:08:00] And so some of my core foundations were really being shaken. And so everything that was built on top of that was crumbling down. And then I went out to be on Survivor. And so things that were happening on Survivor were... Is that a good idea? That is a terrible idea. It is a... I do not recommend that at all. I bet Survivor likes it. Oh, I don't know. They did have...

[01:08:26] I think the hashtag Survivor breakdown was invented back when we did Twitter hashtags. Because of my just breaking down all the time. But anyway, I have been writing... I wrote about my Survivor experience with the scaffolding being the actual events of the game. But the meat of it being what those things were triggering in me.

[01:08:55] What was going on back home. What I was questioning. How this made... You know, loyalty, belief system, prayer, God, all of it. And so I actually... To be honest, I wrote all of this. But it's not something that I... Because a lot of it had to do with my marriage. It's not something I feel like I can publish at this time. Just out of respect to my former husband.

[01:09:25] So what I've done is I've taken out just the most, you know, intimate details. And I'm just posting it on Substack every Sunday morning. And so that's been a really wonderful thing to be able to share how Survivor changed me from the outside in and from the inside out. And really the nitty gritties of what was going on on the island and also, you know, inside this little island.

[01:09:52] What's been the response to all of your postings? It's been really great because I don't... I mean, I'm very careful not to give away secrets. A lot of them have already kind of been found their way out there before just in the last 15 years. There doesn't seem to be as much secrecy. But I do tell a little bit more about kind of the process of getting there. And so Survivor fans like it because they can get a little bit more of the behind the scenes thing. But I think that people that aren't even...

[01:10:22] I actually got a comment, I think, last week that said, I'm not even a Survivor fan, but I'm really enjoying just your journey. And so I think it's also... I mean, Jeff said this before too. The best Survivor experience is a hero's journey. And I mean, I had the classic hero's journey. And so we can all find and identify ourselves in a classic hero's journey. And so it makes for a good story, even if you can't relate to much.

[01:10:51] But typically you can. You said your current husband introduced you to a lot of television. Had he already watched Survivor at the time that you got together? No, I introduced him to Survivor. I had to show him to Survivor. That was my gift to him. And he is as hooked on it as I am. He's the one that finds all of the world Survivors. Somehow he gets... He finds where you can get them.

[01:11:18] You know, however he does it, he finds them so that we can watch them. And we will often... Sorry about that, plane. That's okay. You know, if we're on a long flight, you know, he'll get a little thumb drive and he'll just download four or five episodes of some otherworldly Survivor and gets us through the plane ride. Yeah. Okay. Please introduce him to the podcast also. I will. I will. I will absolutely do that. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:11:46] So tell me a little bit about what you're doing with Collector's Call now because it's a really interesting concept for the show. I watched the episode that's coming up this Sunday where you go to people's houses who have these huge collections of different things and then you go through it and there's like an appraisal of what people have collected. Yeah.

[01:12:11] You know, this is our seventh season and it's just been the most enjoyable job because it's... I love fascinating people and collectors are some of the most unique, fascinating people you're going to meet. And so we... Yeah. We travel the country. We find people have great collections. I don't know anything about them going in. I don't know anything about their collections. So I show up and I just... I'm in proxy for the viewer asking the questions that they're, you know, that they're going to be interested in hopefully.

[01:12:42] And what I love about this is 99% of the collectors, the reason they're collecting what they're collecting is tied to their childhood. Yeah. It's either a memory or it's a relationship or it's a season of time or it's a cartoon or something that when they see that item connected to it, it activates that feeling in their heart that they just want to keep alive. And that is beautiful.

[01:13:10] And whether you're a viewer that says... Like for me, there are plenty of collections that I think, well, I don't... That's nothing from my childhood. For instance, this season, we have a Marilyn Monroe collector and a Liberace collector. I obviously know of them, but not a big fan. By the end of it, I learned so much about both of these people that you really... It's an educational show in some ways as well.

[01:13:38] Lisa, you learned about the collector or you learned about Liberace and Marilyn Monroe? I learned about... Well, I learned about Liberace and Marilyn Monroe, but you also learn about the collector because I want to know, what is it about this person that fascinated you? What is it that made you want to bring all of this into your home? Or it's a collection that's also from my childhood and I have the same wonderful little tingles all over when I see, oh my gosh, I had that doll.

[01:14:08] Or, oh, I remember that. It brings us back to a pure, sweeter, more innocent time. Well, it's like Citizen Kane, you know, that it's you time travel with some of these collections. And I understand the appeal that we recently had on one of the other podcasts that Brandon, who works with us, got in contact with somebody that he saw through your show, The Muppets Collector, was recently on another podcast.

[01:14:34] And just listening to him talk about his lifelong Muppets collection and all of the things from his childhood. And it really was amazing to hear just like all of the different memories that each different thing sparked. Yeah, yeah, it really is. It's a sweet show. And it's nice because there's a lot that's not so sweet on television these days. You know, we also have an expert that comes in and we had a survivor collector. Oh. And Ethan was the expert. Oh, okay.

[01:15:04] I have to watch that episode. Yeah, it was a great episode. So it was the daughter of the man who had this huge collection. And I think he also had a really big Instagram following. And they still, I do believe, sell some survivor buffs and things like that. But he passed away. I had actually met him and his daughter when he was alive. I was at some kind of seminar in Chicago.

[01:15:31] And he came up and they said, we have your torch. And I said, what? Yeah. We own your torch. And I said, are you kidding me? And so I had met them. But they, you know, so that was lovely to have his daughter represent his collection. Yeah, I got to watch that. Yeah. Yeah. It's really fun. You'll recognize all the pieces. Yeah, for sure. They have Sandra's original outfit and her little original little army cap.

[01:15:59] And they have all kinds of cool. Yeah. Well, in the episode that I watched that's going to be on on Sunday, that it's somebody who has collected a lot of film memorabilia. But I think the tricky part is you have to have so many mannequins. Well, you know, if you're collecting screen use costumes, you do. But we have lots of different costumes, not so many. And the guy, even though his collection we saw Robin Williams, you know, outfit from the

[01:16:26] Hulk and Elvira's gown and Daisy's staff from Star Wars. Yeah. But he was also has a horror collection that we didn't we didn't focus on. So I guess maybe that's why he can actually live in a wake up in a bedroom surrounded by all of these magazines because I mean, these mannequins, because I think that would freak me out. Yeah.

[01:16:53] Has there been a collection that you've come across that's completely unusual? Oh, many of them. Many of them. I will say one of the most unusual, though, was a gentleman who collected locks of hair of presidents. And he and these are that he has the provenance for this of like. John F. Kennedy's hair. He had Abraham Lincoln's hair.

[01:17:22] And apparently back in the day, I don't really remember the story exactly, but because you could think, really, why does he have this hair? But apparently back in the day, if you sent like an invitation to something, you would send a lock of your hair to as part of the invitation that says this is really. I don't know, but I bought it. Yeah. OK. He was fooling anybody.

[01:17:50] But they really with the experts typically we have had some experts that have called people on things and say, you know what? This isn't authentic. And, you know, that's the risk you run being on the show, I guess. I'm sure you get asked this all the time, but do you collect anything? I don't. I am. You know, I'm an Engram 3. Efficiency. It's not efficient to collect a lot. I like things streamlined, simple. I like to move. It gives me an opportunity to cull through closets and drawers. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:18:18] I don't really have a collection of anything either. My dad used to collect pennies. That's a good collection to have now. Yes. Yes. I have it now. But he had a penny from every year. And wheat straw pennies? I don't know if they were specific. I think he was, like, mostly just trying to get one from every single year. Well, that's a really cool collection. Yeah. And what a gift for you to have. Yeah.

[01:18:47] I keep saying that one day I'm going to go through it and we'll get all the ones that... And my dad has passed for 15 years ago. But I keep saying that one day we'll go through it and we'll add all the ones that he missed. But I haven't gotten to that yet, Lisa. Well, you know, that's another great example of why I love doing this show. Because it really is. It gives the collector the joy. But really, when they pass on, and most of the time they do pass it to their children, some children think, I don't want all this junk.

[01:19:16] But many of them will go, I don't need all of this, but I want to keep this. And then every time they see it, it brings them back to the feeling of being with their parent. Yeah. I don't have any interest in collecting the pennies, but I could take them all out and I get to have the memory of my dad and seeing him with all of the pennies on the table. Even though the pennies aren't my thing, I get to have the memory of my dad. That's a beautiful thing.

[01:19:46] I love that. Yeah. Of course, you can watch Collector's Call on MeTV every Sunday. Lisa, what else is going on with you? Well, I will tell you this. What else is going on with me is another big life shift. One that I'm sure it will change me quite a bit. What now? And that is, I, well, I am, we just, we're getting custody of my husband's teenage son.

[01:20:16] So he, I, as a senior citizen, I'm going to be raising a teenager. He's moving out here. He's going to high school. He's four. He just turned 14, four days ago. So that will be a whole other adventure. Sure. I've not had a teenager in the house in, um, well, my son, my son is 35. So it's been a while. Okay. Well, I'm sure you're up for the challenge. You know, I, I talked about this a little bit earlier, but I would just love to get your

[01:20:44] perspective on it because I think that you're one of the people that we talk about when we, when we talk about the survivor moms. Could, could you talk a little bit about the plight of the survivor moms on where, where, and I mentioned Denise, but outside of Denise, the moms have really struggled still, even into the new era to win the game of survivor. And it seems like at times they're held to a different standard that the other players aren't. Well, first I'm curious about what you mean by that. Talk to me a little bit about your perspective.

[01:21:14] So it feels like that we've seen, um, you know, you played in survivor 25, but then Dawn and, and ultimately, uh, you know, uh, that there were two moms in the survivor final three where that, that is a pretty unusual, but then we had in survivor 26, Dawn went on to play and, uh, really was raked over the coals by the survivor jury.

[01:21:40] And then over the course of survivor history, we've seen other moms like Chrissy not get rewarded for her game in season 35, uh, in season 44, jam jam ends up beating out two different moms in the final three of that season. And while in the new era, we've seen some moms sort of held up as like, okay, we have to get

[01:22:04] them out because they're the most likely to win like Julie in season 45, or even Maria who everybody kind of gangs up on as a, looks like that she might be the favorite in survivor 46. Um, it feels like to me, my theory has always been that a betrayal from someone who comes across as like the mom figure in the group is not, people can't get past that of, Hey,

[01:22:33] you were like a mom to me. How could you have betrayed me? And we don't see the survivor men or the survivor dads really held to that same, uh, that same level of, Oh, how could you do this to me? Whereas in survivor history, a lot of times people look at the moms as that, uh, with some moral outrage when they get to the end of the game.

[01:22:59] Well, first of all, I want to say you are some kind of survivor savant that you can just pull up these numbers, these seasons and these people. I mean, that is impressive, but don't ask me, you know, which one, uh, you know, when my kids have baseball or anything like that, that's, that's where that's my weakness. Okay. Well, okay. But this is, this is an amazing strength. You have, this is what I've collected memories of survivor. Yes. And you have, you have a massive collection.

[01:23:28] Um, you know, I really hadn't, I haven't really even pondered this, but I think you struck on something that makes sense. I do believe that the betrayals are much more painful depending on how much you've really let down your guard. Yeah. Um, if, if, if you've kept your, if you kind of kept some of like, I'm not going to let

[01:23:51] this person in, then when they betray you, um, the, the, the dagger never went in, it went in that deep because you had some mesh, some, you know, mail, some armor over here. Um, but when a mom figure you're going to trust, I mean, just inherently, uh, allow your guard to come down, allow yourself to be vulnerable in their presence.

[01:24:19] And so you are undefended and being undefended is the definition of being vulnerable. And, um, so I think that that is, and it's one of the things that we, as, as mammals, no, as mammals, even we, we're always in survival mode. And so to let your guard down and not be in survival mode, especially on survivor, I think the, it is more painful.

[01:24:48] The, it does go in deeper. And when you're hurt, hurt people, hurt people, that old adage, when you're hurt, if someone's hurt you, you want to hurt them back. And what's the best way to hurt somebody back on survivor? Not give them your vote at the end. Yeah. Um, that's really, uh, very well put. I think that, uh, you can be a mom, but you can't be the mom to the tribe.

[01:25:15] I think that when you are the mom, I think it sort of puts you in a position where that when you betray that trust of the other players, that they just, they can't see past it where, um, that if you are sort of like the tough mom, where like a Janet from survivor 39 or, or Maria, where you're all these numbers and these names. I'm not trying to show off. You know what I'm saying? I don't remember Janet. Yeah. You know, I don't.

[01:25:44] Oh, there's some reasons to forget that season. But I think that that's really, it seems like that that's really the key. But like when you're a caretaker to the other players, that there's, that players can't hold those two things of that. You were a caretaker and you also betrayed me. Yeah. Yeah. That, that makes a lot of sense. One thing you, you didn't cover and maybe this isn't the case and it's certainly not for Denise or Chrissy. Yeah. But I do think most moms, uh, they also have a hard time in the beginning because most moms

[01:26:14] and myself included, Sari, we're not going to be challenge beast. And so, uh, I think many moms that, that, you know, make it through the audition process, they are on the chopping block. The first couple of votes, when you need strength, when you need to win those, you know, group, those tribe challenges. So the fact that any mom makes it through those first few votes because they really can't help

[01:26:38] the tribe in those challenges, you know, then right there, they've made it through the, what a big hurdle and then you're right. And then if they've made it through that far, then they've got to still face this. And, you know, I, I mean, I do think we've, we've come a long way, but, um, there's still a different standard for women than men, uh, whether you're a mom or not is whether it's you call it mom or dad, man or woman, there's going to be a different standard for how ruthless and shrewd a woman can be.

[01:27:08] And, um, a man's going to be that ruthless and shrewd and get, get away with it more easily. Yeah. Okay. Well, Lisa, uh, this was such a nice conversation to have with you. Uh, please come back anytime when you or your husband have any takes on survivor anywhere in the world. Uh, we'll be here. All right. Well, we've got takes on survivor all over the world. We, we really, we have our favorites from all over the world. So, um, it's, this has been a pleasure for me.

[01:27:36] It's not only been a pleasure because I love talking survivor. Um, but it's been a privilege cause you're the, you're the man. And so I do appreciate that. You know, and Dalton. Yes. Um, well, Dalton's OG. Sure. Sure. No, I, I really do, uh, appreciate that. And I've, uh, for many years, uh, looked forward to having the chance to talk survivor with you. So, uh, this was a real honor for me as well.

[01:28:04] Well, I'm so glad feelings mutual. Yeah. Okay. Lisa, anything else you want people to check out? No, I don't think so. I mean, there's the, we're right on survivor on substack. It's free. So that's a nice thing. Uh, you have to choose the none because there's a paid subscription and I go deeper into stuff, but, uh, this, the Sunday post are free. So just go to survivor, look for my name. You'll find it. Um, it's called throw out the bathwater because my whole kind of story hero's journey story arc

[01:28:34] has been don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Um, you know, you don't have to go from black to white, good to bad. Uh, it really is both and, but, uh, it's easier just to search Lisa Welch on survivor and for substack. Okay. Well, Lisa, thank you so much for everybody else. We will have plenty more coverage as we head into the finale of survivor 50. Take care, everybody. Have a good one. Bye.

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