Today, Stephen and special guest, Sam Phalen, discuss Survivor 48 episode 7.[00:00:04] The smartest guys around are about to break it down like they've won the game a million times. Actually, they didn't really win the game at all. Survivor Know-It-All!
[00:00:51] That's right! Rob Cesternino is hobnobbing with the glitterati in glamorous Boston. So today on the Know-It-Alls, I'm very fortunately joined by Sam Phelan, someone who knows how to actually make it to the end, unlike my usual co-host for this podcast. And unlike me, actually also knows how to get votes. So, Sam, welcome to the podcast. You give me too much credit. There is no plurality there. It is a vote and one singular vote.
[00:01:20] But yes, Steven, what an honor to be doing the Know-It-Alls here with you. That song, just gotta get the blood coursing through your veins, get you fired up here. So very, very excited. I do think, is making it to final Tribal Council, is this the new prerequisite for being on the Know-It-Alls? Some are saying. I think so. I think we got it. Boots Sesternino out of here. You know, get Sue Smay in here as our regular co-host. You know, you can do it occasionally. Smay, am I pronouncing that correctly? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
[00:01:51] Sue is fantastic. Yeah, all right. Thanks. Yeah, so very fun episode tonight. A lot going on. The big headline is Vula Apocalypse or Vula Apocalypse. It's just Mary, just Mother Mary, the last Vula standing. And who would have thought when you looked at that after, you know, about one or two episodes in that we'd be sitting here with just one green person left in Mary. Is this so I don't know anything.
[00:02:17] Is this like usually what we see when we see one tribe get absolutely decimated early? They end up doing decently well or sort of that's historically been the precedent, right? Yeah. Like Ma Sing was always the sort of the example. Of course, I think of my own tribe in Token Sheen. So there were three of us then we, you know, you kind of you learn how to like be a fighter, a tribal council. You like create those bonds, you build trust and that empowers you to, you know, do really well in the game moving forward.
[00:02:44] But is that changing in the new era or generally a and like B is this specifically like what went wrong for Vula? Yeah, I don't think that's changing in the new era. I do believe, you know, if you are the small group coming into emerge, you are going to tend to have a lot of wiggle room because most people in the game tend to have bigger fish to fry. Wiggle room and fish. You really that's like the perfect metaphor is good work.
[00:03:11] What what I really think happened for Vula here, I can't get past the Justin tribal council as really being where things went wrong, because for the first time ever, we've seen somebody in Cedric who ends up voting for everybody on this tribe multiple times, keeps most of them in the game. You've got this weird dynamic between say and Mary were their enemies to friends, but never actually voting together. And that's sort of a one sided friendship, it seems from say pretty consistently where she's like, oh, I love Mary.
[00:03:41] Mary doesn't love the idea of working with say all that much. And I do believe this season 48 dynamic, Stephen, is unique from what we've seen in the rest of the new era. This group from everything that we have seen so far tends to be fine with going with the large numbers.
[00:04:00] You know, on season 47, it was a trend of how can I take advantage of this one person at the bottom to make a move to further myself and build my resume against the power group. We haven't seen that from this unit so far. And you have this now power alliance, which is also based on strength, right? Physical strength in these challenges.
[00:04:22] So it's no surprise that this Vula group who didn't really have a strong challenge beast on their tribe lost a lot early and now is sort of on the outs of this merge group as well. Like we have been complaining on the know-it-alls and probably generally the survivor fandom has been complaining like people are making these big moves too soon.
[00:04:42] You know, like this game of like turning on your allies, constantly looking to, you know, break up your own alliance just to, you know, advance yourself one step further in the game has seemed really like overly aggressive, but it seemed to kind of dominate the new era thinking.
[00:05:00] It's really interesting to see that not happen here where, you know, you do have in both tribal councils, these people, I mean, and certainly the tribal council where, oh my gosh. We're so segregated. We're segregated. We're segregated. You're like, it's been awful. You have this group thinking of how do I turn on, you know, or should we consider turning on each other? I thought it was going to happen. You know, let's talk about that tribal council first because I do feel like.
[00:05:29] That's like sort of the more interesting decision here is, you know, even though it was a second tribal council, you know, you have Kyle and Camilla really thinking of like, maybe this is our opportunity to take out Shaheen. Maybe this is our chance to like get rid of a strategist. Now he's not protected by his, his alliance or, you know, his, his closer allies. And Cedric doesn't really have anybody else yet.
[00:05:54] Yet they kind of choose to do the consensus or what would, you know, the broader consensus choice and eliminate Cedric. Like, do you think this is the right move or like, what's your perspective on that? I do think this is the right move for Kyle and Camilla and more specifically for Kyle. Even though conventional thinking would lead us to believe, right? Cedric is a sitting duck. Cedric is going to remain on the bottom tomorrow, even though he's on the bottom today. So we can leave him be take out a more powerful player in Shaheen.
[00:06:22] Where I think it's different for Kyle is if we look at Kyle's game and Camilla's game as well, it is up to this point, solely relying on options. They say as much in this episode or last week's episode, whatever it was about how they're continuously in the sort of middle position to go with whatever group that they want. They're protected by numbers.
[00:06:41] They love having this secret duo between the two of them that, as far as we know, hasn't been picked up on by anybody else in the game yet, that these two are actually very close and working together. And what I think keeping Shaheen does is it preserves options. Kyle remains in this power five or strong five with David and Eva and Joe. He has this side relationship with Camilla. He kind of keeps the door open to a lot of different working options.
[00:07:11] I think Kyle and Camilla both can still try to be Siva strong at the end of the day. Like, where does Mitch go now? Where does Chrissy think her real alliances are? I think it's probably still with the original orange Siva tribe. And so what voting Shaheen out would have done is eliminated that strong five that seems to be in control of the game right now.
[00:07:36] It would have exposed to just how tight of an alliance the two of them truly have. And frankly, I think it would have elevated both of their threat levels at a really early time in the game. So I think this is the right call. So I'm curious, Stephen, if you agree with that.
[00:07:51] And I also would say I was worried and I am worried in the future that Kyle and Camilla did make a mistake, which was telling David about Shaheen potentially having the idol trying to throw Shaheen under the bus without actually running the bus over him. Right. Right. You left him alive. Right. And now there's this information out there that you turned on your ally. That's a sketchy thing to leave in the game. That's a really interesting point, honestly. I actually had not considered that.
[00:08:20] That like what, like by kind of creating this, you know, question around Shaheen, like, you know, David could run with that. And then suddenly, like, where did you get this idea? David, too, like from what we've seen, David wants to do this strong personal alliance. And Shaheen is included in that as far as David is concerned. Like we think David is still riding with Shaheen. I don't and it's it's not Kyle telling this information. It's Camilla telling this information.
[00:08:47] Again, as far as David is concerned, Camilla might be on the outside throwing under the bus one of the people that is in this strong five. Now, what does he do with that information and how does it affect Kyle and Camilla moving forward? Right. And you're right. Like, I mean, we certainly, you know, Camilla, it would be easy to point a finger at Camilla after this. It's like, oh, she's throwing your name out. You know, she's creating all this dissension. You know, he obviously doesn't know that Camilla is as tight with his group. So you can certainly see that's a really good point.
[00:09:14] This kind of boomeranging back and really hurting Camilla's game. So like you think like the right move was to eliminate Cedric. But like they went about it in the wrong way. Like they like almost like kept their options open for too long because they like created this narrative around Shaheen that like so that they could decide. But then like they ended up like, you know, choosing basically the more, you know, the more conservative choice. Well, yeah, I do think it could end up being dangerous for them.
[00:09:44] It really I just think it makes Kyle and Camilla have to keep putting on that acting hat. Right. They have to keep going down this treacherous tiptoe path of what information gets out to who and how they manage these relationships. It's a very difficult stage of the game. And when you are in a power position, this is often the spot that I think that you're in.
[00:10:05] Right. You are trying to sort of marionette the puppets in your game and try to control all of them just subtly and delicately enough and balance all of these pots so that nothing spills over and comes back to burn you. And Kyle and Camilla right now have created a situation where they are in full control. They have a lot of different options. But by doing that, they have also created a lot of different ways for it to blow back up on them and potentially end one of their games.
[00:10:34] Yeah. I mean, especially with like something like the strong five, which like it's an interesting alliance name. It feels like a little bit, you know, determinative. Like, you know, I was saying at one point, you know, who is the person that the strong five is targeting? Like, who is the strategic puzzle solver that is like, you know, on the on the receiving end of the strong five votes at this point? It's Camilla, you know, I mean, Mary's there, I guess. But like it's like other than that, who you know, who are they going for if not Camilla?
[00:11:03] So I do worry that Kyle is going to have to kind of, you know, make a choice at the very least at some point very soon. Yeah, I would agree. Like Camilla fits into that like super fan, very strategic, was very good at the puzzles in the pre-merge type of player that has tended to use players like David as he goes on about. I don't want to be a shield, right? Like Camilla is the person to watch out for that can really get some legs in the end game and make a run and win this thing.
[00:11:30] And so if there is anybody for the all muscle, the muscle milk alliance to go after, right? Like Camilla is a very logical option. So Kyle potentially going to find himself in a very hard spot. And I'm very curious to see where he navigates that, how he navigates that. I mean, is there a world? So you're saying like Kyle and Camilla strategy is keeping their options open. Is there a world we're keeping Cedric around? Is that Pat, you know, where? And I think they made the right choice, too. It's funny, like I'm just free. Oh, go ahead.
[00:11:59] Well, no, I mean, it is right. Like Cedric is looking for any buoy in an ocean, right? He is absolutely needs safe harbor, needs allies. If you keep Cedric, potentially you have a building block there. But what I do think it does is it exposes how you've been playing the game up to this point. And for Kyle and Camilla specifically, I think their games are a little bit more discreet than a lot of the other people on the beach right now.
[00:12:25] We know that Joe is rocking with Eva and that they want to keep all the muscle around. David's telling everybody who will listen about how he wants to go to the end with all these physical threats and these big competitors. You sort of know that Mitch is on the bottom and say is on the bottom and Cedric is on the bottom. But Kyle and Camilla are in a really interesting spot where I think if you were going off of the information that you have in the game as another player, you don't know about their alliance. You don't know what they've actually got cooking.
[00:12:53] And if you're them, as long as you can make it without that being public information, the better for your chances to make it to the end game. Yeah. I mean, I do think there was something about what I think it was Shaheen said, like, you know, you have to make it to the end to win at the end. It's not just about putting jurors on the jury who you like. Like, it's a little premature to be like, you know, perfectly creating your jury when ultimately you actually need that insulation.
[00:13:15] I mean, it's really funny. Like for years we were saying like, oh, my gosh, like why does it's so boring watching Survivor when a tight alliance like stays together and votes together. Now that feels like revolutionary strategy. Like now it's like, oh, my gosh, can this this plucky six pull it off when it used to be like the most like tedious thing? You know, I mean, in Survivor 23, like when the I guess who pull a five like they stayed together. It was like, oh, my God, this is like every episode is like yet again, one of their one of their victims put off.
[00:13:42] But it'll be interesting to see how 48 plays out and what I guess the reception is from the Survivor fandom, depending on how this swings. Right. Because if we get one of these seasons where this majority group does start picking off the outcast one at a time, that sort of old school Survivor, which everybody's been like clamoring for years and years and years about how much they miss old school Survivor. And then let's see if we get it. Do people like it or do they not like it? I don't know. Steven, I would be surprised if that happened.
[00:14:11] And the main thing from this episode that tipped me off to believe that will not happen is a confessional from Kyle specifically talking about Shaheen. Where he said, I don't want to keep having to look over my shoulder, which really resonated with me and my experience playing Survivor. I think it's a really real feeling for players out there. I felt it on 47 when I was playing with Annika on Gata.
[00:14:38] And no matter what Annika said, no matter if she said all of the right things and was a great ally to me and just the perfect friend, I had this idea in my head that she had thrown my name out on her journey and that she didn't have my best interest in mind. So no matter what she did, no matter what happened to the two of us for the rest of the way, I was constantly looking over my shoulder and I had this uncomfortable feeling about working with her. And so when push came to shove and I had a decision to make at a tribal council,
[00:15:06] Andy, who I felt like I had a good read on at the time of where he stood and where we stood, or Annika, who to me, I was always looking over my shoulder at, I wanted to get rid of that burden. And so while Kyle and Camilla make the conservative choice here, they send Cedric home, they keep Shaheen, they keep their options open. That feeling is not going to go away for Kyle. You know, I think he is going to continue to be burdened by this looming feeling that Shaheen is going to pull one over on him at some point.
[00:15:36] And I think that's going to create a riff that doesn't necessarily allow this group to really make it to the end as they would hope. But you're saying like psychologically, that's probably what's going to happen for Kyle. But is that the right choice? Like, is that like, I mean, when you look at your own experience with Annika, was that the right choice? Like, cause like if you had voted out Andy, you know, maybe it's a very different story. You know, your whole storyline is I never had, you know, the numbers to get anything going.
[00:16:01] You know, is there a world where like, you know, Kyle doing something like that could create a similar situation for him? Totally. Yeah. I mean, if you do that and you vote out Shaheen too early, right? You might lose the trust of Joe. You might lose an Eva by proxy at that point. You might lose the trust of David, right? Now, all of a sudden, the numbers that you once had, the control that you once had on the game, you don't have it anymore. And it can be very difficult to recover from that. So the timing of that for Kyle is going to be very important.
[00:16:30] You can't wait too long because I do think Shaheen is very savvy, very strategic, will do anything to win, and probably has a lot of social capital, as we saw in this episode with so many people coming to him, wanting to work with him. So you're going to have to make sure that you time that up just right to make sure that you are preserving your place in the game and your place in the power, but also making sure that your own fear doesn't get the better of you. And what I did, my thinking about it was always, you know, what would I regret more?
[00:17:00] Right. If I got got by the person that I was fearing getting got by the entire time, or if I did the move and then it didn't necessarily work out perfectly from there, I'm like, I'd much rather make the move and try to figure it out than looking back and saying, what if? I mean, it was very good drama. So what are you looking back now? Like, what if? Like, do you think that was the right move for you? Yeah, I do. I do. I think, you know, I think my read on Andy was always that Andy would turn on me eventually.
[00:17:29] But for me, I felt Andy would prioritize keeping me in the game over Sierra in the game. And so if there was going to be a coup against Gata, that I would not be the first person Andy tried to turn against. And so I think that that proved to be accurate. I was able to, like, survive that first initial push against our duo. And from that point, I think Andy and I maintained enough of a relationship that we were able to come back and work together towards the end of the game and sort of flip the game.
[00:17:58] So I think that was a specific relationship with Andy that I had that I don't believe I had with Annika. And I don't feel like would have been able to happen the same way. I wonder if, like, Mitch, I'm sorry, I wonder if David ended up being more of a decisive force in this, you know, than we saw. Because, like, you know, you see him, like, considering all these these kind of pitches from Kyle and Camilla. But I wonder if, you know, he's so committed to this strong five.
[00:18:27] I wonder if, like, he kind of like they got the sense from him, like, he's not ready to like. Yeah. You know, I think I think that's probably accurate. Right. Like Camilla throws this out to him, throws out the idea. Shaheen might have the idol. And you're looking to see is David all. Oh, well, he lied to us. We got to take him out. Or is David very much trying to put out the fire? And he was putting out the fire and then some saying, OK, well, it's fine. We'll have to keep that in mind. But not tonight, not tonight, not tonight. And now the juice isn't worth the squeeze to push it too hard for Kyle and Camilla.
[00:18:56] So it sort of is, as David said at Tribal, his decision to make as sort of the driver and the one guy that's safe. Sam, is it painful for you to watch a season where all of these handsome alpha males are joining up together and dominating the game? It is. You feel like you were on the wrong place. You know, I wouldn't change anything. 47 worked out just fine for me. And I was very happy with my experience. But I did.
[00:19:22] There is a little bit of a feeling of being like, I would have fit in really well with that group. You know, we I had all, you know, the like the strategists, the people that were targeting duos and targeting anybody that was a physical threat. And so it became difficult for me to find footing. And I look at even some of like the challenges that they've had so far. I'm like, come on, man. I want to throw. I want to throw sandbags at at targets and whatnot and build an all strength alliance.
[00:19:48] I think I'd be a little bit more like Kyle or Shaheen if I was on the season, because one track minded survivor doesn't exactly go over well with me. I wouldn't be able to do the bro out, do the muscle thing all the way to the end of the game. I would have liked to to have my cake and eat it, too. Yeah. I mean, I kind of, though, I'm like optimistic. I'm not optimistic for David's chances.
[00:20:12] Like, but I could be wrong about that, but he he seems like really uniformly focused on this thing and maybe oblivious to the game that's happening around him. I am kind of optimistic about Joe's chances and Joe very similar to David, you know, in terms of that focus on like honesty and integrity and strength. And for whatever reason, I get like a real like possible winner upside vibes from from Joe. What do you what do you think? Is there I can I can see it with Joe.
[00:20:40] So my my worry with Joe at wise would be we've seemed to have gotten a lot of foreshadowing, Stephen, about Joe being like, hey, I might not win the million dollars, but I'm a I'm a hero. I'm a good guy at the end of the day. Right. Like we've gotten that idea of he would tank his game for Eva if it came down to it to make sure that he doesn't betray her. And I believe that I totally believe that Joe would do that. I think, you know, he said just one or two weeks ago.
[00:21:07] Right. Like I know a lot of a lot of people come out here and like some people win money, whatever it is. But I don't know a lot of people that come away with it and truly help somebody when they're in need. And I think that means a lot to him as well. And I'm worried for Joe later in the game, how much he's going to be willing to step on the gas and win Survivor. Right. Is winning Survivor the priority for Joe or is doing really well and being the best example for his children, the priority for Joe?
[00:21:36] I think it might be the latter. And if it's the latter, I don't know if he's going to fully pull it out. I will say the benefit for Joe or I guess the upside here that that I think you see is the group of people that he's playing with. I think Joe can play a one track Survivor game where he's just Mr. Hero, the dad of the year, Mr. America. Everybody loves him. He doesn't turn his back on anybody. He gets to the end and he wins because he's playing with people that respect that style of game.
[00:22:05] Right. Like had I played that way on 47, it never would have gone over well. We had too many people that were all about the layers of Survivor and you had to show strategic acumen and agency and and social game. You had to have it all. If Joe is sitting on a jury that has, you know, David on it, that has Eva on it, that has Kyle on it. You know, there's votes for Joe right there where he can easily win the game.
[00:22:31] Let's talk about the other tribal council for like, I guess they were the purple, the purple squad where say goes home. Say who, as she notes, has been, you know, not had nine lives target almost every tribal council that she she went to. Certainly was almost eliminated at that Justin tribal council. Was this the right choice here? Because it's it is actually in many ways a similar question. You know, they have this opportunity to take out Mitch. Mitch does not have the social capital that someone like Shaheen does.
[00:22:59] But he's, you know, he's amazing in the challenges. He has this fantastic story. And almost because he's a little isolated, you can see him making it deep and then going on a potential run. Whereas with go ahead, go ahead. Well, let's talk about Mitch, because I think that that's the question that I that was sparked for me watching this episode. Outside of was this the right move, wrong move? Right. So much of what we heard about Mitch in this episode was about how big of a threat Mitch is to win the game. What is it about Mitch, Stephen?
[00:23:30] Because Mitch seemingly right on the outside of Siva to start the game with charity with a four to two sort of alliance there. And he was on the wrong side of that has been to two tribal councils, has voted incorrectly and been in the dark. Both times are rootable guy, a lovable guy has done surprisingly well in these challenges. But on this season, why is Mitch being the guy that is sort of being labeled as big threat needs to go and can't get his footing in an alliance because of it?
[00:23:58] Yeah, I mean, honestly, I think it's because he doesn't have social capital. I think it's like a way for people to target him. Right. I mean, sure. I think it's like when you see, you know, like, why are we going to vote for Mitch? He's you know, we're the strong five. Why are we voting out this guy who's doing amazing? And it's like, you know, it seems like an honest guy. Yeah, he could win. We've got to take him out, you know, like we have to. And I do think there's a little bit of that with like, you know, all of these votes. And I wonder if that was true for your experience where like you always create a narrative. Oh, she was stirring up chaos.
[00:24:27] She was lying to everybody, you know? Oh, oh, he's he's got this great story. We got to get him out. And he does have a great story. But but, you know, did you notice that that to be the case where like as soon as someone was the target, you just kind of like build a narrative around why they're like the correct. Sure. Almost like almost ex post facto, you know, like it's not like they're the correct target and therefore you vote for them. It's like you're voting for them. And then and then you come up with the reasons why afterwards. Well, it's the it's the labels, right, that we place on players in the game.
[00:24:53] And I really felt it towards the end of my season, really at like the final eight, final seven, right before Operation Italy happened. And we were able to sort of swing the tides of the game. Genevieve and I kept looking at each other and hearing about the name of this power five alliance that was calling themselves the underdogs. And we were sort of wondering, how are you the underdogs when you have two idols, a block of vote, a five to two advantage? We are the underdogs here, right? We are the ones that are climbing uphill to just survive another day.
[00:25:23] And we were the de facto targets for pretty much everybody in the game at that point. But when you sort of get that that label on you as threat for whatever reason, usually because of what you said, right? Somebody doesn't like you. Somebody thinks their game would propel would advance in a more positive way and more positive trajectory if you were out. And so now they throw your name out as somebody who needs to go. And the more traction that that catches, the harder it is to just sort of fight against it.
[00:25:52] And you don't want to fight against it because you're also now going to tribal councils and playing in public settings and forums with other players who are going to be at the jury at the end. So you don't exactly want to go out in public and be like, hey, by the way, I suck at this. I have no chance to win. Don't vote for me because that'll be, you know, self-fulfilling in its own way. So I felt for Mitch a lot and I'm not even sure he's aware of this perception of him just yet that everybody is sort of targeting him.
[00:26:20] But it can be very frustrating when you're already the one that has no control in the game or is on the wrong side of the numbers being labeled as a big threat to win the game that everybody wants out. Where do you think like the driving force for this decision came from? Because it seemed like Chrissy was on board with voting for Mitch. It seemed like Star was on board for voting for Mitch. I mean, was it really just, you know, obviously say it was on board for voting for Mitch.
[00:26:46] Were we just seeing this storyline like to create some drama or do you really think that Joe and Eva, you know, we certainly saw more of Joe's perspective here. You know, Joe kind of like was the force behind this. Yeah, I think probably what it was for everybody was the jury. Like the fact of not having say on the jury, I think was really attractive to a lot of people.
[00:27:09] And I think had Joe beaten David in the immunity challenge and this group gone to tribal second. I think Mitch goes home here. Really? Talk me through that. Well, it is very real when you get to the merge and you realize that you've got two more votes until the jury phase of the game hits.
[00:27:31] For us on 47, it was one of the biggest driving factors between for voting out Rome at the final 13 is we get to this beach and there is one person who everybody is rubbed the wrong way by is sort of unpredictable. You don't like living with or spending time with and you don't really know what they're going to do at any moment. And that is a really dangerous variable to have sitting on the jury.
[00:27:58] And if you're Joe or Eva on this group, in this group, you have not spent a single day with say you have not built a relationship there whatsoever. And you've heard all of this, like how much she will ride, how opinionated she is, how much she will speak out. Right. Do you really want her speaking out against you if her allegiance is not to you at the end of the game?
[00:28:21] I think everybody thinks about that and it becomes more threatening to have say as a locked in jury member than it is to have Mitch in the game right now for this group of people. And if you flop that situation, right, no matter who you vote out now, they're going to the jury regardless. I actually think say stays because you don't want to be the one to upset, say, send her out of the game, send her to the jury when now she's guaranteed to fight against you all the way to the end.
[00:28:48] Now it is an easier opportunity to get out a player like Mitch, who you think could be sneakier later on to maybe go and win the game. How much of this is just not wanting to live in a jury house with someone? You know, like how much is it? Like truly like you're thinking, like, if I'm voted out, I don't want to be a plunder. I mean, we had that on Cambodia. There was someone who rubbed everyone the wrong way. It was very difficult to live with. Her name was Abby. And we all talked about, like, gosh, we should get rid of her now before the jury phase, you know, that way.
[00:29:18] But then, you know, with that person, it's like it's so hard to vote that person out because you know they're not going to win. And like that, you know, there's a lot to say with Survivor generally and just like wanting to, especially for someone like me, like wanting to preserve the people in the game who you know you can beat, when you have like someone like Mitch, like, are you like, you know, are you, you're not thinking how? I guess that's my question. Like how much of it is like, I just don't want to like live with that person if I'm voted out. For me, it was never about like, I don't want to live with this person at Ponderosa.
[00:29:48] I was hoping not to be at Ponderosa. Right. And so I was, I was sort of trying to make decisions based off of what would have been better for me at the end of the game. But you also like for me, Rome was somebody who I was actually down to keep in the game as just a shield. Right. Similar to like Andy early on, I viewed him as somebody who, like you said, I was like, OK, probably won't win the game. So how do I build my game around this person to have them included in my alliance and with me there at the end?
[00:30:15] But it also is a ticking time bomb depending on who this person is. Right. And for Rome, Rome got to the beach and on the first day started throwing out all kinds of names to everybody, including mine. And so it stopped being in a relationship that I cared about preserving. It stopped being about whether or not I can live with this person or I'm OK with living with them at Ponderosa, whatever it was. There is imminent danger here. And this person is not a part of the jury. That is two reasons.
[00:30:43] Very good reasons for me to vote them out in a stage of the game where I'm just trying to survive another day. And I think that is what happened for say here. Right. Say was very loyal, actually, throughout the entire game here and did what she said she was going to do pretty much all the time. She played pretty aggressively.
[00:31:03] But I just think this outspoken nature of say in some of these public settings, her sort of popping off at Cedric a few times when they got back and and doing all of this in front of other players, I think made them not super down to really hitch their wagon to her long term. And it makes her an unpredictable juror if you get to that point.
[00:31:24] And so when she's going to tribal council in what is, by the way, an unfortunate draw for both her and Cedric to, you know, kind of worst case scenario for both of them. I think it only makes sense for everybody else to sort of remove that variable from the game and ensure that you make it to the next stage. Do you think if it was a 12 person vote that like say would have skated by again? I mean, do you think there was like that? Like there is like for two reasons, like a like you're like she's not a threat.
[00:31:52] Like let's go with someone who we feel more threatened by and be because she's the obvious choice. You know, it's like you almost are like incentivized to find a different choice. Like do you think she would have like last or you do think she would have lasted? Yeah, I think she would have lasted. I think, you know, you give everybody in this game every target on the board as being on the board. And I think people start to get a lot of ideas. What it was just a really, like I said, bad draw for say, I thought the one thing that I thought was going to happen that I think should have happened. And you were going to ask, right?
[00:32:21] Was it a good move to do say for Joe and Eva? Yes, I do think it was good to remove that variable before the jury stage for Mitch. Certainly think it was a good move when his name is the other name on the block. Yeah. Star, I think, didn't have all the information, right? If you are operating a star and you think you are really in with Joe and Eva, even though star is probably not as in tight with them as she would want to believe right now. I think it can make some sense.
[00:32:50] Chrissy for me is the one that I think missed an opportunity here. Chrissy has played with say on their split tribe, has gone to a tribal council and come away from the tribal council with this group of Mitch and say. And Cedric and seemingly had some decent vibes after voting out Bianca, like that this group could do something and make some waves. Chrissy claims to want to target these big physical players in the game.
[00:33:18] What is stopping Chrissy from going to say, going to Mitch, using Mitch's block of vote and taking out Eva, somebody with an idol who doesn't see it coming. Who's in a strong duo. Who's clearly insulated in this group of players. Who's, you know, the strong five. I think that would have been a really interesting move. Um, so I think maybe Chrissy is the one that missed an opportunity, but everybody else, probably it just made too much sense to get rid of the variable.
[00:33:45] But I would think like to your point earlier, you know, I would think that Chrissy's point of view is like her best alliance right now is that Siva group. You know, we haven't seen too much of Chrissy's, you know, kind of like starting out her own future. But, you know, for her to turn on Mitch, suddenly like that Siva five is done. No, not turn on Mitch. Use Mitch. I'm saying, I'm saying Mitch, Mitch, saying Chrissy vote together against the three loggies.
[00:34:07] And, you know, that three specifically was on that split tribe together and they had just, you know, been part of that group that came out of the Bianca tribal council. So you have a block of vote. Like, I think there's an opportunity there to sort of make a splash and sort of knock out some of these really strong players. Because I look at Chrissy now and I don't know where the path is.
[00:34:29] You know, you're sitting there looking, hoping for Siva strong, but like all your other Sivas seem to have found other alliances that they tend to prefer. Let's talk about this challenge because, you know, you yourself have competed in this challenge. Yeah. You were reminding me earlier. What's it like? What's the strategy here? How do you do it? I wish I knew, Stephen. I really wish I knew because this one, it puzzled me. It baffled me.
[00:34:59] I would love to try it again and see like if I was just simply doing something wrong. I felt like I was squeezing with all my might on this grip strength challenge on 47. And I think I was out two minutes, three minutes. Like it was a short lived time in this challenge for me. So to watch and I, by the way, made myself feel better by being like, nah, big guys aren't supposed to win this one. This one's meant for meant for the littler people who have less body weight that they have to hold in the bucket.
[00:35:28] So I was very humbled sitting there watching Joe and David and Kyle, like just stand up there for an hour almost when I know that there's, you know, 50 pounds in those buckets more probably for some of them. So it's very hard. I don't know how they did it. Wickedly impressive. And I felt like that was a Stephen Fishback segment of the show that they put that in there for you.
[00:35:52] Like, like just a bunch of like male, like male models sitting back, flexing their muscles, you know, smack talking to each other that I was, this is Stephen's survivor right here. Yeah, no, this, it was a highlight for me of the season so far, for sure. Um, are we in like the post Charlie, like world of like super grip strength now where all of these grips, like we're all these grip challenges. So you were saying, you know, you didn't get to see Charlie before you went out there, you know, and get this like Intel about how important grip strength is.
[00:36:21] Are all of these grip challenges now going to like go for hours? Probably. I really do think so because grip strength was never something on my radar. It was never something that I felt the need to train or plan for. I did a lot of swimming. I did a lot of like my, my regular like squats and deadlifts and tried to build my lower half. And, and get some strength there. I did a lot of yoga and tried to get good center of gravity and balance.
[00:36:47] I gained weight because apparently putting fat on was supposed to help me, uh, you know, like deal with the, the hunger a little bit, you know, while you were out there to have some extra reserves. And then about a week, not even a week, four days before we left for Fiji, we get the infamous survivor 46 Applebee's episode. And in that episode, Charlie also wins immunity on this very challenge and says future survivor players. If you're going to go play survivor, train your grip strength. Wow.
[00:37:16] And I kind of immediately went, Oh, I did none of that. And basically every challenge seriously required grip strength, all of like the big heavy lifting that you think you're going to have to do. Everything is shaped sort of weird. It's awkward to hold onto. It's not like you're just like using your shoulders and your legs. Like you're in the gym. It's weird. It's supposed to make you uncomfortable. And it's why people with really good grip strength do very well.
[00:37:43] So I bet you this 48 crew, they had about a month, an extra month and a half or whatever to prepare. Then we did. I bet you they saw that and they got their grip strength. You know, correct before that challenge. So I do think, yeah, we're going to start seeing hour, hour and a half. People are going to beat these records. What's the, what's the, what's the, you go to one of those like squeezy, squeezy things like a squeezy? Well, that's what Charlie did. He said he had one of those, like, you know, I don't know, things that you could do in class. I probably like, what do they call them? Farmers carries.
[00:38:11] You just grab like dumbbells and try to hold dumbbells as much as possible. Work on your forearms. So what's your advice other than grip strength for future survivors? Like in terms of what to train a lot of puzzles, a lot of puzzles and balance would be the two things. Like do yoga, build your center of gravity. I was one of the least coordinated, like, like balance wise. I had horrible balance before I started training for survivor. And I got out there actually did really well in all the balance challenges. I never found that to be like an issue. So train your balance.
[00:38:42] You don't need to swim at all. Like, yeah, I don't really, you really don't need to swim. I was really worried about like getting into a swimming challenge where I wasn't going to be prepared. And I think maximum we swam like 100 yards at a time. You should be comfortable in the water because there are some people who are just like not comfortable in the water. And you do see that from time to time. But like, you don't really need to know how to swim. No, yeah. Weightlifting, swimming, not as necessary. Extra grip strength. Good at puzzles. Good at balance. And especially when you get to the individual period of the game.
[00:39:10] I mean, like it's all stand on this platform and balance while you hold something above your head. And it's all about like how how cool and composed you can remain. It's not about how how fit you are. Yeah. Yeah. Losers who win challenges. It's not about your fitness. Even how did you? Yeah, you've won how many couple, right? I won one immunity challenge. One of my favorites, by the way, a very memorable immunity win for you. Memorizing the numbers. Literally memorable.
[00:39:40] Yeah. Yeah, that was good. No, that was good. It was funny. Like I walked into that challenge and I was like, oh, I'm going to win this. You know, like I didn't like what think to myself. Love that. Maybe I'll win this. Like it speaks to my skill set. I walk in. I'm like, no, I'm going to win this. And so like the whole time I was like way behind. And like it didn't bother me because I was like, no, I know I'm going to win this. So I don't need to worry. Yeah, you know what to do, right? Why don't we do more of those challenges anymore, right? Where did the memory challenges go? Where did the trivia go? We need more trivia for sure.
[00:40:10] So so let's talk. I want to talk more generally about kind of the position that Cedric and say are in here. Yeah, we see even at the start of the episode, you see say kind of trying to create some inroads with Joe. He doesn't he's he's pretty resistant to it again. Like you have been in that spot of I need to get something going here. Nobody's talking to me. Like, what is the solution? Maybe you don't know. But like, what do you know that you've done it? Like, what do you think this illusion is?
[00:40:36] I mean, I think I love actually this question, Stephen, because it allows me to bring up a philosophy that I have about the game that I've really been reflecting upon since 47. I think there are really two types of players in Survivor. And you sort of get placed into a bucket and you have to correctly identify what kind of player you are. And that should dictate the choices that you make in a situation like this. I think there are players that are allowed to play under the radar.
[00:41:04] They are warranted extra wiggle room to slide into groups, to kind of lay back, to to, you know, assimilate. Right. I think somebody like Mary is doing a tremendous job of this ever. She got out of hot water, hit her shot in the dark, got to a swap and just laid low and, you know, allowed Eva to throw star under the bus and David to throw charity under the bus. And all of a sudden, Mary got in the mix in her group. And nobody's bringing up Mary's name all of a sudden.
[00:41:32] She seems to be in a good spot to have some legs in the game. And then I think there are the players that are always going to have their name in everybody's mouth. Say is an example of this, right? Say, as she says, these people are obsessed with me. And if you are one of those people that everybody else is obsessed with, I think you have no choice but to play active Survivor.
[00:41:54] And what I found was that when I got to the merge and I was sort of trying to blend in with all these groups and it was going fine. And then Sierra gets voted out and I'm on the bottom. And I tried to play under the radar. I tried my first move to be like, all right, I'm going to smile and nod and say all the right things. And people are going to forget about me. And then once they forget about me, then I'm going to strike. Right. And it didn't happen. That day, everybody kept bringing up my name. Nobody was forgetting about me. Nobody was talking to me.
[00:42:24] And I sort of had this moment of clarity where I realized nobody is going to let you just float under the radar and make it towards the end of this game. You have to go play active. And that is why I blew up the solve vote and just started trying to take the game in my hands and tried to throw Gabe under the bus at the next one and did as much as possible to get targets over me to make them go home. Right.
[00:42:46] And I think that's probably what say needed to do here is as somebody who is never going to be afforded the ability to just stay under the radar instead of going with the safe move of hope that they want to vote Mitch instead of me. You need to play active spread a lie. Tell somebody that, you know, somebody said something about them. Go tell Joe that Mitch wants to get rid of Eva. See what happens then. Right. Like Joe, all of a sudden, Joe and Eva, they don't take kindly to that stuff. Mitch is on the hot seat or tell him that Chrissy is, you know, spreading a lie.
[00:43:16] Play a little bit more active. I think that's the position that you have to realize, right, is look in the mirror, figure out, am I somebody everybody's talking about or am I somebody people are forgetting about right now? And you have to play accordingly. But do you really want to be the person who's forgotten? I mean, was that what was Rachel that person? I mean, for a while. Yeah, I think so. I think Rachel did a very, very good job of realizing that she had the ability to go and work with Tuku. Yeah.
[00:43:43] And assimilate into this Tuku group and build a bond with Caroline and with Sue and with Gabe and start to build relationships without, you know, having her head be at the very top of the surface anymore. And she did it for just long enough that all of a sudden Rachel became the power player in the majority alliance. And she got a few votes where nobody was really bringing up Rachel's name. And so I think that was a really savvy move on her part.
[00:44:07] And if Rachel had tried to play the way that I did and play super aggressive at that stage in the game, I think everybody votes her out immediately because she was on people's radar. So you just have to know how your actions are going to be perceived and, you know, go accordingly. And if you go either way on the wrong end of the scale, you're probably, you know, right in your own demise.
[00:44:29] I mean, it's really hard when you are one of those people who's on everybody's radar to actually make it to the end because they're constantly on their radar. I mean, and then you're like, like to your point, like you're forced to do more and more over the top things. And then as a result, like you're like even more on their radar, you know, it's just like an additive thing. Like, is there like, who has anybody like done that? Because I agree. I think that's a really astute observation that like once you're there, like you can't, it's going to be really hard to like sink below the surface level.
[00:44:58] But like you sort of have to keep like finding new avenues. And is there anybody who's done that really well in the 40s? I'm trying to think like, you know, who's been able to deflect, you know, we had these people. I think didn't finish the job all the way, but I think Jesse Lopez is a great example of that as somebody who was probably brought up over like pretty. But I don't think the scuttlebutt was that like just like nobody like really, you know, like it was more like Cody.
[00:45:27] Who was that person? You know, is it D and 45 who's pretty early in the merge as like, hey, she could win this game. And she kind of is in that power group for a lot of the, you know, a lot of the merge and yeah, to the end that way. It's very, very hard to do. Yeah. I mean, especially if you're in, if you don't have the numbers, I mean, D obviously was able to keep that Reba alliance together. And that was instrumental in, in her win. But, you know, if you don't have the numbers, it is a lot trickier. Marianne wasn't a big target.
[00:45:59] Yeah. Gabler was obviously not, he was hiding in plain sight. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. Like it does feel like the late thirties were kind of like the time for these big targets to be thrown out all these splashy moves. The mid thirties, you know, Ben Dreebergen, you know, Rick Devins was somebody else who obviously always had something going on. It also seemed like that time there was a lot more like, you know, of course, like the early forties were very advantage heavy, but there's a lot of like idols, you know, splashing around in the, in the late thirties. And that, and that really helped that. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:46:28] The, the whole new era idol sort of policy that they've had going on has, I think really hindered somebody's ability to stay alive for too long. Once you're, once your name gets out there, it'll be interesting to see, like, I think survivor is beautiful in the sense that every time the game swings too far one way, it tends to have a pretty steep and sharp correction back on the other side of things.
[00:46:54] So what is 48 reaction to seeing a lot of those, you know, early 40 seasons play out. And now that you have an alliance of all the quote unquote power players or the strong five, do they just do that and allow all the big targets to get to the end? And how does 49 respond if they see? Yeah. Let's take a moment. And before we talk about what's coming up on our hub, Rob, of course, is got keys guy, you know,
[00:47:23] hub knobbing with the glitterati now, but in, in, but I, you know, let's, let's talk about the Rob, Rob, Rob, Rob, other, Rob, other podcasts. So we have week seven, we got the Boston live show, which I guess will be up tomorrow. And then Sandra DS twine is going to be a guest on the podcast. Always really exciting to hear what she has to say. And then I don't even know what we know survivor. Go, go long. I don't know what I'm supposed to say here. Like, well, we know, we know community. Oh, sorry. Yeah. Well, it's the podcast feed, Steven.
[00:47:53] It's the, we know survivor podcast feed. This was, so I just got back in the States, obviously like a day or two ago, whatever. And I went and I put on 2.0 speed, all of the, we know survivor RHAP podcast. I've just been trying to catch up as much as possible because I need all my analysis. Sam, that was great. I really appreciate that. I'm terrible at this. That was real. Can you also do, can you, can you give us the chat GPT? Can you talk about that? Cat GPT. Sorry. Chat BCC. Excuse me. Chat BCC. Exactly.
[00:48:22] There you go, Steven. Yeah. Well, you got to crash the group chat. You're in there. I'm in there. You see Rob Kelly, Wentworth Tyson. So many of our other survivor friends are in the group chat over at chat BCC where we are live talking survivors. So during episodes throughout the week, leading up to episodes, dropping predictions, reacting. It's a, a group chat for survivor players that you can be a part of as a survivor fan and get your two cents in the mix as well. And react to all of it with the survivor gossip and chat chat BCC, totally free to sign up as well.
[00:48:52] You're doing a frighteningly good job at this. Survivor heroes versus villains. Am I doing this one too? All right. Keep going. Keep going. You're killing it. 15 years after the fact, survivor heroes versus villains. Josh Wiggler, Rob Sesternino. They recap it. Episode eight. Do you remember what happened on episode eight of heroes versus villains? I don't. Do you? I don't either. But by math, we can probably say, I believe was Orkney voted out was, was, was coach voted out at this point?
[00:49:21] Um, yeah, probably it's probably around coach. Wow. You really, you really didn't agree. And Hey, look, if you want to find out, listen to the podcast. That's not, you know, you'll, you don't, we are allegedly the know-it-alls here, but we do not know it all about survivor heroes versus villains. Josh. The RHAP patron Q and a as well for episode seven, drop your questions, uh, for Rob. He will be responding to all of the questions on the patron Q and a. So if you have any burning questions about, uh, you know, was this the right move? Who are the winner chances?
[00:49:50] Uh, who are the winner picks? I guess, Steven is your winner pick Joe. Did, did we go over that? I just Googled it and you were right. That Courtney was the one voted out in survivor episode eight. Yeah, there we go. This is embarrassing for me. Gosh, that made me feel pretty good. We might have to see what Twitch is up to right now. That was a decent, decent call. Um, Joe is my pick right now. I think, I mean, well, I want to talk, I want to talk a little bit more about that after, after you've, you know, aced all that.
[00:50:18] Oh, tell me about blood on the clock tower, Sam. You love blood on the clock tower. I mean, this is the hottest strategy game out there right now. So survivor lovers, whatever reality competition series you like, you'll love blood on the clock tower. I've fallen in love with it. Thanks to Steven who got me involved with it. And RHAP has survivors playing blood on the clock tower. PG, Marianne, Gabby Pascusi, Emily, Steven, Rob, Christian, Franny, Kane, and Dwight.
[00:50:48] Letting it go on RHAP, getting some people, uh, getting a little bit evil, little deception, little lies, but, uh, one of the best games out there. You can check that out on the RHAP YouTube right now. Sam, you're a natural at this game. And Sam is actually in our next edition of survivors by blood on the clock tower, which hopefully we'll release in may. I'm so, I'm so excited, uh, for that to get released. It was, uh, so much fun. Uh, and I finally, Steven, I just signed up to, uh, to play a little bit more clock tower in the future.
[00:51:15] Not that, that is what I missed the most to not being in the United States. I missed my clock tower games with you, Steven. Yeah. We didn't even congratulate you. I meant to just start the episode with this. Sam coming hot off his wedding and honeymoon joining us here as a newlywed. Yes. A newlywed, uh, and you know, love is in the air. Love was also in the air on the white Lotus in the finale. White Lotus had some romance. It had a little bit of extra drama as well. If you're not caught up, catch up.
[00:51:45] Uh, on the great Mike White's new season of the white Lotus, the finale recap here on RHAP as well. So everything that you missed and thoughts, uh, who hosts the white Lotus recap, Steven? I'm not sure about that one. Well, tune in to find out. You can check that out. Josh and Rob on the white Lotus finale recap. All right. Um, well, that was pretty, that was really spectacular, Sam. You're going to, you're going to really, you're costing me my gig here. I'm like, I don't, I don't know. I don't love this. Can we edit out that whole segment and then I'll redo it?
[00:52:16] Cut it. Cut it. Yeah. Um, so Sam, let's talk about the real question that everybody has tonight, which is the fishy award. We play, do we have it? Can we do the music again? Okay. Wait, actually, this is, wait, do we have music? We can do that. Oh, you might've missed this when you're absent, but there's new now a new. I saw, I saw on Twitter, believe it or not, Twitter was, was buzzing about the fishy music. So I can't wait. This would be the. Shouldn't we get a fishy song? I would love that. Oh my gosh.
[00:52:44] That's all I want is a new song. A great and wise writer named Stephen Fishman created an award that would serve as a symbol of survivor greatness. And it was known as the fishy.
[00:53:28] And version of that. Wow. There's like a five second little bit in there that I think is going to be maybe our stinger movie moving forward, but it's really quite something, isn't it? That is excellent. The music video really makes it too. We get a lot of your face in that thing. Yeah, it's great. It's really, you really feel how important this award is. So let's, I actually have no idea in spite of that music video. Oh, go ahead. I do have, I do have something I need to address with you before we get into the fishy real quick, because I've been, I've been, I've been needing to get this off my chest for months now, Stephen. Wow.
[00:53:58] In Survivor 47, I am very proud to be a two-time fishy award winner. But I must say, you broke my heart in September of 2024 when Marianne Okich on the know-it-alls filling in for Stephen Fishback gave out the fishy for episode two to me. Wow. And I texted it to all my friends. I woke up, my now wife, fiance at the time was like, I won the fishy, you're not going
[00:54:28] to believe it. Yeah. I was pumped. Yeah. And then the next week, Stephen returns to the podcast and he rescinds my fishy award and gives it to Sue instead. And I was devastated. I was, Sue did deserve it, but I was devastated. And I just wanted to let you know that you hurt my feelings. But luckily you, you gave me two awards later on. Hey, I'm really glad that we could move past that. I'm really glad that we've been able to sort of like, you know, put that behind us. Yeah.
[00:54:58] I mean, you know, and I probably, Sue didn't win any other fishies. You know, we got it. You, you, as Jess, Jess has let us know, right. You took my fish back. You did. And I, you know, I'm glad, I'm glad we can talk about it now because, you know, now we can actually get to the real fishy for, for this episode. Yeah. Well, let's so look, I really do not know. And I promise that we will not rescind this. This fishy will be a non, non rescindable fishy. This is like, you know, non transferable, like the legacy advantage.
[00:55:26] Can't, can't pass this fishy onto somebody else. Um, talk me through who played the best game, because I really don't feel like it was obvious, you know, who the decision maker was here. I kind of have an idea, but I want your perspective. I want your perspective on who you think, you know, because I know you value the fish. Is that, is that, is that what you're going off of though? Is like decision makers, the decision maker going to win this award, or is there another
[00:55:53] criteria that we could potentially, you know, talking about what the criteria of the fishy could be as a very contentious subject, very controversial. I mean, I think, you know, David certainly, uh, is, I think on the radar here, he wins immunity beats everybody for the immunity. So that's, uh, his group, the reward as well. I think he was certainly one of the decision makers, uh, or, you know, one of the key cogs in making sure Cedric went home instead of Shaheen. I would consider Kyle as well.
[00:56:21] I think actually Kyle, not winning immunity was also a brilliant move for Kyle to, to let David kind of, I don't know if he let David not feel like a move exactly. Maybe not, but I think, uh, you know, good for Kyle to not raise his threat level as thug challenge guy. Who's now won both immunities at the beginning. Uh, he certainly seems to have, uh, many different options with Camilla and the ways that they could go. I was going to say about halfway through the episode, I would have told you Shaheen, Stephen,
[00:56:50] because I thought, I thought Shaheen really shined the moment of him, uh, doing the music and the challenge was just, I love that. I'm really, really enjoying Shaheen. And I think he's a very good player who seems to have a lot of social capital, but I would say two of the players that came to Shaheen wanting to work with Shaheen went out in this week's episode and say, so can we really go Shaheen there? I'm not sure. What do you think?
[00:57:16] I mean, my inclination and then looking at the other tribe, you know, we don't really have a sense of who was pushing the say vote. So typically the fishy is like for the strategic move of the episode, which often does come down to who has the most agency in the vote. Not exclusively the case, you know, something like the say vote. We didn't really get to see who was pushing say so much, you know, it's even kind of a consensus decision that was, as you were, as you were saying, kind of like a holdover just from the very fact that she's been the target so often. So I would look more at that Cedric vote.
[00:57:45] And I'm kind of thinking David too, because I kind of think he was the one, and this is so speculative, you know, who really sort of pushed to keep the strong five together. I think he probably was the one who, you know, felt like it was too soon. Shanon Shaheen, you know, to your point, you thought for both Kyle. And Camilla and certainly for Camilla, you know, they might, they had an error. It was an error, right? Like an unforced error. Is that a sports term that makes sense? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it just, it wasn't forced.
[00:58:15] Nobody forced them to do it. Is that what it means? Yes. Well, I mean, I, I, I, I totally hear that. I think, you know, I think it was sort of presented in the show as like a Kyle and Camilla decision. What are Kyle and Camilla going to do? But they cannot make that move without David. David is the, is the, the linchpin that they need to turn on Shaheen. He didn't seem to warm up to it. So I think, you know, David got his way. He got immunity. He got the merge tribe named after milk. A lot of things came up, Dave. Yeah. We didn't even talk. That's great.
[00:58:44] So fishy for David, for all of those reasons, we didn't even talk about that. How do you feel about the merge tribe being named milk? You know, I, I, I like it. Why not? You know, I, I, I liked your take that you had in chat, BCC that they should have just named it milk. Like no reason to don't make you with it. Now I did see Mary on Twitter, I believe said that, uh, they made it in Chinese intentionally in order to try and, uh, have there be Chinese subtitles for her parents to watch. So there was a purpose behind it, which was very nice.
[00:59:14] Uh, but yeah, I would have loved it if they were just the milk tribe, that would have been pretty blunt. So great. So great. It is funny that like production does on token chains. I feel like production did not tell us what to do, but I do think I remember on Cambodia, they were, they were, they had more of a heavy hand and kind of like letting us know what would, what would be acceptable. Yeah. We had a few of our, our tribe names blocked. Oh, give us the, give us the juice, man. I wish I could remember some of them. One of them was, I know it started with a Q.
[00:59:39] Um, it was, it was, it was not, no, there might be a, there might be a tribe coming up. That's the Q tribe. We'll see. Uh, Gabe had a name that started with a Q that he would. Oh, I actually, it was not a Q. I remember it. It was, uh, O S Q O S Q. He called it ask, ask. Okay. Uh, and he really wanted that. I thought it was cool and unique. Uh, I, it meant something that we weren't allowed to name the tribe. So it got blocked. And then Andy had another one.
[01:00:08] Uh, he tried to pull a little bit of like a Malcolm and like told us that his, it was something, whatever, whatever. And it actually was just a practical joke. Andy was trying to plan. So production blocked both of them. They don't like the joke names anymore. They're not going to both of them were joke names. Andy and Gabe were trying to pull one over on the tribe telling us it meant something that it didn't actually mean. Uh, and so then production just said, we weren't allowed to name it that for no specific reason.
[01:00:34] And we ended up finding out later that thankfully we didn't name our, uh, our tribe, something dumb like milk. What was the name? What were you guys? Gabe's was ask, ask. What was your final tribe? Oh, Becca B E K A, uh, which is bat in Fijian, which is, uh, we had like our tribe was Gata, which was snake and Fijian. And then our merge logo was a bat. So it was just the easiest one to do. Uh, Becca. Yeah. That's nice. Kind of boring. I wish we would have done something different.
[01:01:04] It's hard. You know, what were your merge tribes, Steven? Well, in token sheens, we were Forza, which was apparently like an actual, like, like it was not the actual, you know, we were in Brazil and coach had called said like, we want the name for force or something, but it's like Forza, you know, in Portuguese, he, he went with the Spanish name. So it was, uh, I was pushing for dingus, but, um, nobody that, that, I feel like, you know, it wasn't like they shut it down. And I just couldn't get the, get, get the traction behind it.
[01:01:33] Um, and Cambodia, we were, um, I think the word was or, or Koon, um, which was like, man, thank you. Uh, and, and, um, yeah. So that was, uh, that was a nice one, you know, thank you. Cause it was like supposed to be like a thank you to the fans for voting us in. All right. Um, yeah. So let's talk about your overall impressions. We've gotten your kind of like very local thoughts about this episode. What, what's your take on the season? Who's winning? You know, who's, who's losing.
[01:01:59] I mean, I think, uh, it was a very, very exciting pre-merge, uh, which unfortunately also means we lose a lot of really fun people. I was obsessed with Thomas. Very sad to see him go as early as we did. I think that was a sentiment from a lot of people. Um, so Thomas going that early. I think, I do think Justin was somebody who really could have gotten some legs in the game had he got out of that sort of wacky situation on Vula.
[01:02:27] Um, very fun, exciting pre-merge. I mean, it's not a historic tribal council with a shot in the dark hit, a successful idol play on a swap. Um, a lot of things to really enjoy. I would say right now I am optimistic, but nervous. Steven, I am somebody who likes to see a constant power shift. And I am hoping that we get some of these other characters a little bit more power and control moving forward. I need to see more of Mary.
[01:02:54] I want to see, I think the rising star pun intended of the last few weeks has been star. I love star. Great television. She just lights up the screen. It really is television. And actually I think a much more savvy player than she probably got credit for early on. I would love to see star get some traction and make a real run at this. So I'm, I'm hoping that we see some of these dynamics shift a little bit, but as of right now, I'm kind of feeling like it's going to be just like the big, strong people at the end and one of them probably winning. So we'll see.
[01:03:24] Do you have, which one do you think is likely if you had all your chips on one person right now? I think, so I think there's a very clear three for me. I think there's a clear tier of three, like top tier three players that can win. I think my number one pick right now would be Shaheen. Um, or maybe it's Kyle, Camilla, Shaheen are the top three. The only reason I have Camilla a little bit lower than the two guys is there is something
[01:03:52] about the season that I feel like it's going to be one of those strong dudes that win it. We've just seen so much of that narrative throughout the first, you know, however many episodes, seven episodes here that I think, um, there is going to be something to that big, strong people at the end, get votes from all the big, strong people that are sitting on the jury. Cause that's the type of gameplay that they value.
[01:04:14] But I think, uh, I think Kyle, I think Shaheen people who are in that majority Alliance, but I think have a little bit of two-facedness and, uh, ability to play a well-rounded game are where I'm currently leaning. I don't see it as much with David. I don't, I don't see a winner story, I think with Eva. Uh, and then I, I have some, some red flags about the, the edit that we've seen from Joe, but I do think there is upside from Joe.
[01:04:41] I'm not out on like Mary star, even Mitch. I could see making a push here to win it. I just think we need to sort of see that wake up episode for those three. If it's going to happen, we've seen very little, like Mary certainly, you know, in terms of the content that we've had versus the impact on all of our hearts is very, very high ratio there. I mean, since the merge, right. So there needs to be some sort of, I think if we're going to have legitimate winner stock in any of those three, I think we're going to start to see.
[01:05:09] We need to start to see more like big strategic wake ups and like game changing moves from those three moving forward. Another thing we didn't talk about, which I know we're probably running on time here, so I don't want to have you go too long. Chrissy, I, did she, did she make her bed at that tribal council? What do you mean? I, my ears perked up Steven, listening to Chrissy talk at tribal council, knowing the people that she was with, knowing that she's sitting there with Eva.
[01:05:39] And with Joe and these people who say, we want to play the loyal, strong game. And she's been with this group of people to loudly say, I want all of these strong guys out of the game and all of these big physical players. I want to take them out and I'm going to lie to them very soon. Not yet, but very soon. If I were Joe or Eva sitting there, I would immediately be worried about Chrissy. And I think that could end up being her downfall very soon. Did you take seriously things that were said at tribal?
[01:06:08] Like for me, it was always like, you know, Jeff's going down the line. Everyone's trying to give him what he wants. We're all trying to impress daddy Jeff, you know, like, let's like, you know, we're all just like saying the thing, you know, it doesn't really impact what I believe. Did you know? It was never like. I knew everybody was lying to Jeff, right? Because I was lying to Jeff. But I do think it gave off. A feeling for how confident in the game somebody might have been.
[01:06:36] I remember vividly the night that Sierra got voted out. We sort of had this with this plan going to vote out Gabe. That was what God, I thought, was happening. Me, Rachel, Sierra. We all went to tribal council thinking Gabe was going home. We thought that there was sort of going to be a few people putting a vote on Caroline just in case because we thought lava was with us hard. And when we got to tribal council, the way that Gabe was speaking. Right.
[01:07:00] Was this man was more confident than ever before that this vote was about to change the game. There was not one shred of him that was like nervous. Yeah. And I remember looking at Sierra and her kind of like raising an eyebrow at me being like, what is that about? What's going on? And I'm like, I don't know. That doesn't sound good. And I'm shooting eyes over to Rachel on the other end of tribal council wondering like, what the heck is she talking about here? But Stephen, people also make mistakes.
[01:07:27] Like people do allow their true feelings out at tribal. Sometimes I remember multiple times I would be like playing dead at tribal council, knowing I've got a plan in the back of my mind that's about to go right to knowing that I'm about to pull off a blind side and I'm playing dead to Jeff. And then one of your allies all of a sudden is like, yeah, we got something cooking up that nobody sees coming. And you look over there. No, no, shut up. What are you talking about? Don't do that. So people do make mistakes.
[01:07:57] And I was a little bit concerned by Chrissy doing that. Maybe it is the editing, but it seemed to catch Joe's attention too. And I'm, I'm wondering if he carries that with him back at camp. Yeah, no, that's a really, really good point that you do sort of like, you can kind of get an overall vibe for, for people. And I also think that like one of the most important survivor skills is just being really attuned to those sort of weird feelings you get, you know, like something's not right here.
[01:08:24] And separating, you know, paranoia from actual intuition is such a challenge. Totally. Totally. Yeah. It's weird. And I like Shaheen mentioned something about that today too, about like being that decoy vote. And sometimes you just need to like sit back and chill out and, you know, not panic because that could be the thing that gets you voted out. Very difficult thing to do.
[01:08:46] I liked watching Shaheen during tribal council because I could feel his heart like beaten out of his chest throughout that whole thing. And then especially once his name turns up first, I know he's just sitting there like praying he's not the fool, but you know, sometimes that restraint is just as good of a move as being able to pull off like a big blind side is. Yeah, that's a great point. And I actually noticed that even before tribal, when they were at camp, there was a bunch of shots of Shaheen just like sort of sitting there a lot like being there.
[01:09:15] And that is, that is like so hard when you're like, I want to run around. I want to get this person and this person, this person. And you know that it's going to just blow up in your face. So just like, yeah, I honestly thought about like, would Shaheen deserve the fishy for that? Because for like his self-control of doing nothing. Yeah. I mean, I thought he had a great episode. I really think this showed the chops of Shaheen as a player and not necessarily in like the cut and dry, normal strategic ways that you would think, right? He didn't execute a major blind side.
[01:09:44] He didn't, you know, really even necessarily get his way all the way where like he didn't cook up this plan. It was sort of a consensus, but there is some nerve that it takes of a good survivor player to sit there in the gun with your name on the chopping block. When you know, it's turning up and you feel like people are lying to you and people are being weird and people were being weird about Shaheen all day. His name was getting tossed around to be able to sit there and like just control yourself.
[01:10:10] I mean, that composure is a word that I used a lot while I was playing season 47 as like a skill that you absolutely need. So that can be your version of grip strength, you know, like Charlie, the runner up, you know, the runner up, whatever, like cabinet or the runner up backpack, you know, it's a starter pack. There we go. There you go. So you got the grip strength from Charlie. You got Sam's composure and my paranoia. No intuition. Intuition. Paranoia.
[01:10:39] Thank you so much for being here today, Sam. You did such a great job. It's so refreshing to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about. Um, do you, anything you want to like, where can people find you? Oh man. Uh, yeah. I mean, Twitter chat, BCC, uh, Instagram. I'm all the places, uh, talking survivor. I I've love, love, love, uh, this community so much and was always on, on one side of it as a fan.
[01:11:02] So it's an absolute blessing to get to do this on, on this side of it as a player to get the call to stand in for the, uh, great Rob, even though he is, uh, you know, not a runner up, uh, you know, as, as, as, which is the new standard on this podcast. But yeah. Uh, in honor to get to do this. Yeah. Oh, and, oh, and, you know, you have to make the final tribal council. Let's be real. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so much fun. Uh, thank you for asking me to do this. And then yeah, Twitter, Sam Phelan or Sam underscore Phelan.
[01:11:30] Uh, I appreciated you getting my name correct when Rob mis, uh, mispronounced it last week, Stephen. So that was a nice credit to you. Uh, Phelan, not Phelan. Um, do you want to give out like a Phelan award? Like who's Phelan at survivor? Oh, that might be a little harsh, but you don't want to do that. You really don't want to do that. Um, be the one guy that comes on these podcasts and just rip somebody the whole time. It's just such a natural, you know, it feels like it's so easy.
[01:11:56] You know, maybe, maybe someday, maybe someday we'll, uh, we'll, we'll create the Phelan award on, on RHAP. Yeah. All right, Sam, thank you so much. This was such a pleasure. And, um, everybody, you know, talk to you next week. Bye. Bye.