Genevieve, Andy, and Sam Talk Operation Italy | Survivor Time Trip

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[00:01:13] Hey everybody, what's going on? Rob Cesternino and we are back with another edition of the Survivor time trip. Mike Bloom and I have been traveling through time with incredible Survivor players to relive their most iconic moments. And we've got a doozy for you here today. So first, let's give it up for Mike Bloom. Rob, we are truly treated to quite the buffet today with maybe perhaps a dessert helping of tiramisu smay.

[00:01:42] Tiramisu. Yes. Yes. Okay. No soussme here, but we do have the architects behind Operation Italy. Hey, buongiorno. Ciao. Andy, Genevieve, and Sam. Ciao, Rob. Welcome. Yes.

[00:02:07] This is the first because we have had one guest for all of the Survivor time trips, but the people who brought you Operation Italy are all here. First, Andy, how are you doing? Doing so, so well. Always a pleasure, Rob. Always a pleasure, Mike. And I'm very excited to have this little mini reunion. I don't see my 47ers enough at all. So I'm very happy to go on a trip down memory lane today.

[00:02:36] I'm super happy to be here. Yes. And here with us, of course, Genevieve. Genevieve, how are you? I am doing well. Long distance joining you guys here from late night in Amsterdam. And I'm a little jealous. Andy's hair is looking better than mine. But at this point, I'm kind of used to it. So, yeah. Excited to see my guys. Okay. And then also here with us, it's the guy who won the reward to take everybody to the sanctuary.

[00:03:04] It's Sam Fallon. Hey, Rob. I'm, I mean, Andy said it. Reliving the glory days. Who doesn't love doing that? We're getting ready for Survivor 51. And I need a little bit of an ego boost before that. So let's... We're washed up. We're washed up. Yeah. New era's over. A nice reminder. I was going to say, it's an era gone by now. We're officially in the open era. The best of the new era here today on RHAP as we welcome in the open era. Ding. Yeah. We'll see.

[00:03:33] We'll see if the open era can have anything that could top Operation Italy. Yeah. But this is going to be fun. The highest rated episode on IMDB, I believe, still to this age, right? Still. Let's go. Yeah. Let's go. It was a very fun episode. I remember where I was on the night that this happened. We actually did a live show in Houston, Texas that night. So I actually had the pleasure of watching this with 400 or so fans in attendance who were

[00:03:59] thoroughly entertained by an episode that combined a brilliant blindside along with stylistic, fun, mirroring a spy caper movie. The editing really is standout. Yes. Ocean's Eleven style edit in this one. Kind of a unique style in terms of Survivor episodes. Yeah. I am actually curious about that because obviously, you know, this was a big move for all three

[00:04:28] of you in many different ways. But what was your anticipation going into this episode? Did you think it was going to be made to be this big spectacle the way that it was? That's Andy. You know, you know the answer, Andy. Come on. Don't don't. Come on. Well, this is my honest answer. We'll see if it aligns with yours. I mean, in the moment, I think, I mean, it's safe to say it was the most fun we had out there. And we could tell it was just something cool. It was something different. We were saying that in the real time.

[00:04:57] We were saying that before the move actually, you know, we were sure it was going to succeed. So I did have like pretty decent expectations. Right. But you just you never know. You never know how it's going to come together. You never know as the episodes are airing and the season developing what it's going to be and how it's going to be received and all that. And so I had I was cautiously optimistic and I will say once that once I saw the episode for the first time, it really exceeded my expectations.

[00:05:27] It did. It did. We I think we did a really good job teeing up not just the move, but like the genre of it all. Like we were playing into it. We were leaning into it. I think that's what it takes, you know, to serve something up for them so that they can knock it out of the park. It really was. I try not to be biased, but it's just like I think like. The best edited episode of the new era for sure.

[00:05:51] And so it's like for the episode to have the memorability that it that that it does have, it really took the editing team to to not squander the opportunity. And so I was thrilled when I when I first saw it. Yeah. But I feel like that's a two parter because it's like, were you confident in the moment like as we were living it or when we knew what the outcome was? We come home. We knew what outcome was this. And then you're leading up to the episode because in the moment, I definitely did not feel confident.

[00:06:21] But then coming back and Andy is such like a deep fan that I feel like you were the most into like, OK, this is how I could see the edit being pulled together. This is likely. And so there's lots of like edit theory, which everyone does as a bit of like coping mechanism. But then you don't want to get too excited because you're like, and what if I'm purple for four episodes, which some people wouldn't feel great about, but it could be really great. So, yeah, the episode was I didn't know what to expect. It was it was cool. It was cool. It was cool.

[00:06:51] It was cool. In the moment, Genevieve, you're the one who before Tribal Council like lists off all the reasons why this isn't going to work. So I wouldn't expect in the moment that you thought it was going to be much of anything. Yeah, I guess. Well, from Andy's POV, like you have total control. And then the other half of the confessionals I'm giving is like, OK, it could play out this way or like this is a great joke that Andy's playing on us. And it's like when you have to put down your dog and you're giving them one last good day and that's what he's doing for me, you know?

[00:07:21] So, yeah, it was probably more fun for Andy. He had all the control. Well, so like it is slightly different from my perspective. For me, the giddiness and the sort of euphoria of it all, it was occurring the whole time because we were just in different places in the game. And yeah, we were different roles to play in the move. I Genevieve did such an incredible job.

[00:07:48] The best confession of the episode, her laying out all the ways it could go wrong. I felt none of that. I was like so sure. Same. As soon as the three of us got picked for the reward, a lot of my stress and anxiety, of which there was a lot, just completely vanished. And I was grinning ear to ear on the way to the sanctuary. I don't know. It's like because I could see the pieces coming together. We could go into all that.

[00:08:15] But I just felt like in Harry Potter with the Felix Felicius, I was just like, this is just going to work. And we're having fun doing it. And I just saw the vision the whole time. So my best on-island memories of that was, I would say, the night of the sanctuary. And just doing it, doing the move itself.

[00:08:40] Once the third Caroline vote got read, I mean, it was just like sort of the cherry on top. I just felt really confident the whole time. Genevieve is the cynic of the three of us. And like- It has to be. Yeah, no. No, and there is utility to that, absolutely, of like working through the troubleshooting. And like, I'm sure we'll get into some of the details of that night and what a lot of it looked like.

[00:09:06] But a big part of it was Genevieve troubleshooting ideas to keep kind of me and Andy in check on the- We're like, oh, this will do this and that. And she's the one kind of having to, hey guys, what if this happens? What if that happens? Like, let's account for all of these things. But it also, like you said, Rob, is no surprise that Andy and I are seeing the heist montage Ocean's Eleven style edit in our heads as we're walking around doing this stuff. And Genevieve's walking around. I think I'm going home. This is fun.

[00:09:37] And I'm like, Genevieve, no, you're not. Making sure I've got my socks in my bag. I've got to be ready to go to Pondy tonight. So we should set the stage for where we are in the game when we come into this. I believe, I know Andy says it's day 21, day 21 planned. So that it's coming off of maybe one of the slower episodes of Survivor 47 when Kyle ends up going out. Excuse you, Rob. Teeny says that Kyle was a big part of the fabric of season 47. No doubt. Yeah, a buck 50 for sure.

[00:10:07] So the Kyle vote happens where, and I'm assuming Genevieve and Sam, you voted with Kyle? Is that right? I did not watch the previous episode. I vote for Kyle. We were in line with Kyle. We vote for Kyle kind of in a house, big brother house vote task. I threw a hinky vote. Yeah, trying to keep Kyle. At this one, at Genevieve, and I spelled it wrong. Yeah.

[00:10:32] Then you apologize for spelling it wrong, not for casting the vote, but for spelling it wrong, which I really believe. Let's get into some apologies here, though, because it's interesting. I mean, we'll talk about, I think, how premeditated this plan was. But what's so interesting about this is that the episode starts off with this dynamic of the underdogs that are not so under anymore. And Sam and Genevieve on the outside. And Genevieve, you spend the first part of this episode, you know, trying to do a little bit of damage control. Because I think you had said in the previous episode how, like, you didn't necessarily respect Andy's game.

[00:11:02] You apologized to him about that. We have quite an awkward conversation with Teenie, where you say, like, if you're sitting against Rachel, that's not a slam dunk. And he says, is that a threat? Maybe not an ultimatum. So what was your sort of perspective on trying to build these relationships or some sort of dynamic to keep you in the game, considering how on the bottom you and Sam seemed? Oh, gosh. So yes, I had my disrespect towards Andy's game.

[00:11:28] I'd actually fully like to blame on Rob because I was really just paraphrasing something I'd heard on this wonderful platform about the losers, the nothings, and the threats. And I was trying to lay it out for people and say, if you're perceived as a threat, this is my pitch to Rachel. If you're perceived as a threat, we should be working together and get rid of other people. But of course, that's ammo for Rachel, who has no intent to work with me to go like, hey, Genevieve called you a loser. Genevieve called you a nothing.

[00:11:57] And so, Andy, you tell me. But it's so interesting because I think there is a valid argument in threats should work together and shield each other. But it's such a fine line to then being like, well, who made me the Queen of Sheba who then gets to dictate what perception is? And you can be wrong about your perception. You can spin a false perception. But then when you hurt feelings, you close more doors than you open by doing those things. And so it was a good learning experience in the game.

[00:12:27] And I was glad Andy was open to me being like reversing course and realizing that was a misstep because, yeah, kind of humbling. That's I mean, that's one way to take it. But my perspective is interesting because like the fine line is is the key point to all this, I think, because it's it's the new era, but it's just survivor in general. And it was the final seven. Right. This is where the end game comes into the four. Right. So you're thinking changes.

[00:12:55] And when I was thinking when I thought or like when I heard that Genevieve was saying these things, I mean, it hurt a little bit. Right. But much more than that, it kind of opened up my eyes. Right. So and this is how I see like the setup to what we did next. But I thought I started to say that Andy was a loser or nothing or a threat. I think I said Andy was a loser. Is that the three tribe format for next season?

[00:13:24] Losers versus nothing versus threats? Well, I think because at that point and I'm very fortunate that Andy is pragmatic enough to see it that way and be like, OK, that doesn't mean it's true. That just means that maybe one person's perception. If that's one person's perception, maybe it's more. And now how do I change that perception? Yeah, because it's not reality. He was a threat masking as a loser. We'll take that. We'll take that.

[00:13:49] But the thing is, I think what Genevieve ended up doing, it was like, ended up being really successful because it just painted like it solidified the picture of what I needed to do going forward. Because up to that point in the game, I started feeling really, really good about my secret position. You know, how much I was doing, how much, how many options I had relative to what people were perceiving about my game. I still maintain that is a really good and it's a really viable position.

[00:14:19] But every position has its tradeoffs. Genevieve and Sam were, you know, far and away. And then with Rachel, the perceived threats, that's got pros and that's got cons. They have jury equity. But, you know, they're the names being thrown at every time. Mine is the opposite, right? So when that whole thing with Genevieve happened, I immediately, I was starting to think about just the endgame strategy implications of it.

[00:14:44] And I'm just like, okay, my secret position is great, but how do you go and then sell that to a jury, right? So you can claim you have this position and you have these options. But if you don't prove it in any type of meaningful way, it's just words. You have no proof. It's not, you know, something that you can hold your hat on.

[00:15:07] And so what I was thinking pretty much as soon as that happened was, well, okay, this position is viable right now, but I really, really need to flex the power that I believe that I hold. I need to demonstrate it. And the worst way to demonstrate it is to just ride it out with this underdog alliance, right? And the final seven was, in my mind, really the final round of leverage that I had to do something, to shake it up.

[00:15:37] And so I don't, like, that happened in the final eight with the, you know, Genevieve saying that about my game. But again, I think this is a really nice flourish by the editors opening up on that because from my perspective, it really was a really good setup for our agendas aligning, even though they hadn't been the past few rounds. And I feel like that, oh, sorry to interrupt. No, please. I feel like that added to my element of, well, one, I didn't trust anyone in the game.

[00:16:06] Maybe Sam, greatest betrayal of all of the final five, but that's fine. But it also was like, I'm so naturally suspicious of people. So when Andy says that he wants to work together, I'm like, but how could you forgive me? Because I'm not even coming from neutral with you. We're coming from a relationship deficit. And I think Andy, you hit on this perfectly. It's one thing to say at the end, oh, yeah, I was overlooked and that was my strategy. It's another thing to be like, and this is how I actioned it. This is how I used it.

[00:16:34] Because so many people just stop with, I was overlooked. That was my strategy, period. But where is the power in that unless you do something with it, which then translates to this move? Well, we talk about power. Let's talk about a big one that you had, Sam, because you are the one that is able to house everybody under this one place to bring Operation Italy together. And in the episode, after you win the reward challenge, you would say, I think, in a confessional that you were already planning to take Andy and Genevieve with you if you had won reward.

[00:17:02] So what was your thinking going into this? Why these two specifically? Yeah, I mean, it kind of comes back to the night before, right? Kyle leaves the game and Genevieve and I had both voted Kyle out unhappy that Kyle was leaving, kind of just going with the majority, but knowing that we were dying on numbers. And so my calculation that night and that next day immediately became like, how can we find a third which can make a majority?

[00:17:32] And I felt like the best two relationships that we had were me personally, my relationship with Andy and Genevieve's relationship with Teenie. Those were sort of like side duos that maybe not even game duos, more just like personal duos that I felt like existed within this group of seven. And so there was kind of this struggle back and forth between Genevieve and I where we both saw our path forward a little bit differently. I didn't trust Teenie.

[00:18:02] Genevieve did trust Teenie. I trusted Andy. Genevieve did not trust Andy. And it was kind of like not on the same page there. And so I think we were both trying to keep our mind open towards either one of these people. If we can work with them to create a majority or more people for our side for a vote, we need to do that. And that was part of, I feel like Genevieve trying to repair that relationship with Andy and me trying to continue to have conversations with Teenie.

[00:18:30] Also something I remember was Genevieve might be able to speak to this as well. Genevieve was really down that day. It was, it was a, not to, not to air you out a little bit, but it was, it was something like I woke up, I had a conversation with Genevieve. I talked about, Hey, can we try to do a three, two, two, we might need to pull somebody else in here. She kind of goes off, has her strategic conversation, which ends up being her having a personal conversation kind of with, with Andy. And I think she's going and doing strategic work.

[00:18:59] And then right before we leave for the challenge, she sits down back next to me. And I remember just kind of being like, Whoa, something is, something is off with her. And I was kind of like, Hey, you okay? And no, she's not okay. Clearly not. Okay. Um, so then that that's kind of eaten me up and like what Genevieve is not okay. She's down. She needs to pick up like this is not going well.

[00:19:24] So then as we're walking into the challenge, we kind of come around the bend and we see the challenge for the first time, see what it's going to be. And I immediately feel like this is going to be in my wheelhouse. This is one that I, that I can win and should win. And she was next to me in line as we walk up and I kind of turned it. I'm like, you need to go on reward, right? Like you want me to take you? And she kind of just nodded, like affirming, like, yeah, bring me, bring me if you win. So from that moment, I think I said only if it's letters.

[00:19:54] Only if it's led. Oh yeah. Yeah. Only if it's letters. Yeah. So, so then for me, it immediately kind of became, Hey, this is a personal thing where like, I don't want to go on reward. If Genevieve's not there, I want to do this for my friend. I want Genevieve there. But then, you know, I had had a conversation with Andy earlier in the game where I'd promised to take him on reward. He didn't remember that. I did. And didn't remember it. Don't remember it. Yeah. No, but I appreciate the thought.

[00:20:24] It was back. It got it. Like it was early. And it was like, Hey, cause we were talking as survivor fans about how cool some of this stuff would be. And I think Andy had brought up how like the loved one's letters would be really cool for him to go. And I had told him if I had a chance to give that to him, I would. And so then, you know, there had been some sort of, I would say tension personally between Andy and I, that I didn't know where it sat, where we both wanted to connect. But I had hurt him and he had hurt me.

[00:20:51] And I think in many ways we were saving face with one another that morning where, Hey, us two gotta boys here at the final seven. Look at us. Who would have thought? But I don't think we ever reconciled that relationship in the way that we needed to, to truly work together. Um, and so it, it all just kind of made sense for me looking at the game board, looking at the need for three people on a vote, looking at the, the way that my personal relationships were that it was, it was a no brainer that I, I needed to be there with, with Andy and Genevieve.

[00:21:21] I'm curious. Uh, if either one of the two of you had won, who would you have picked Genevieve? If you wouldn't. Sam and teeny. Okay. And so it's sort of enlisting the same strategy that Sam did of like, and listen, teeny would have been a lot happier for what it's worth. But I don't think teeny would have done it because there was between teeny and Sam and teeny have the same motivation that Andy had. Maybe I think that would have been a mistake at the sanctuary. It's possible. I don't know what that once the wine is flowing.

[00:21:51] Once the wine is flowing, I think we could have left the sanctuary with a plan. I don't know if that plan would have actually made it to tribal council. Yeah. It would have been such a fun night. It would have been such a fun night, but I don't know if it would have the same. Methodical approach to a detailed game. What about, what about you, Andy? Because it seems like, as you were saying, things were already ruminating in your head. Maybe not this plan, but like, you feel like you have to do something to help your perception. So was this something you were going to mobilize if you won?

[00:22:17] Well, what's funny is it really was this plan that was ruminating in my brain. However, I don't think if I won, I would have. Helped good about taking Genevieve and Sam just because it would blow the cover. You know, if I was going to be horrible. It wouldn't work. It wouldn't be like really, truly bad. But so like, I don't think I practically could have done it. But what's interesting is like, yeah, like thinking about where I was in the game. I woke up that morning.

[00:22:43] I think I say on the show, I woke up that morning with a plan and it was swinging over with them and doing a 3-2-2. Specifically, I woke up really early that morning and had a walk with one of the producers. And I was just talking, you know, like when you're talking about where you might go next in the game. I was feeling pretty sure that if in a perfect world, this would be the move I wanted to make.

[00:23:11] Do a plurality, do it here, do it the final round. I could do it. But I was like, but there's just no way. There's no way. And I think the logistics were really on the top of my mind because in post-merge gameplay, these things really matter in terms of putting a plan together and having the time and the space to not just get the right people and get the right people on board.

[00:23:36] But to do it in such a way that doesn't bring attention to itself, you barely have five minutes to not even, you know, you barely have two minutes to talk strategy with someone one-on-one. And so my thought process was, I want to do a move that's just like this, but I don't think it's possible because we're not going to have the time and the space. And then I was shocked when I got chosen for the reward. And then I just thought, you know, I thought about it and I thought about what the reward entailed. And I'm like, that is exactly what we need.

[00:24:05] We have the time and we have the space and we have something that can bond us. Right. You know, we'll get into the Lovelance letters and how amazing the sanctuary is. That's glue, you know, that can really put a plan over the top and make people actually want to commit to it. So that's kind of, there was a bit of kismet, a bit of like, you know, right, like the stars aligning. So it worked out exactly how it needed to, I think.

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[00:25:58] That's Z-E-N-N-I dot com slash podcast, promo code PODCAST15. How long were you all at the sanctuary before the game talk started? Maybe an hour, two hours, I would say. No, I mean, I think we got there, and it was initial like, hey, dive into the food. There was some emotional conversation right away of me talking to Andy right away and kind of addressing some of that emotional tension.

[00:26:27] And I think Genevieve was an observer for a little bit and kind of taking it in. And then once we got into the letters, it kind of just became an emotional conversation for all of us, to that bonding that Andy sort of talked about. And I feel like once we had eaten, ate, eaten, I don't know. We ended up sitting down, and that's kind of when some of the strategy really started flowing. Yeah. But it didn't take too long. But you don't want to skip the levels of letters. You don't want to skip the food. You want to have that moment be its moment.

[00:26:58] And I kind of knew, I knew I was going to initiate game talk in sort of a real way. So I just wanted to do it when I could do it. But what's interesting, as soon as we were done kind of eating and everything, the sun was kind of about to set, right? So like, you know what I mean? So it's like, I got to cut to the game talk. I was like, all right, let's come to the game. So we go to the beanbag chairs, you know. Because you didn't want to have the game talk during the subpar lighting. That is a consideration.

[00:27:28] He was just a production eye. What a guy. Exactly. Wow. I'm so intrigued. When it comes to this loved ones letter stuff, like, do you each scope out an area? Because we have these like vistas of like, you know, Genevieve sitting on the chair and Sam sitting by the beach. Are they like, you go there, you go there. Yeah. I mean, it was like, we, everybody, I think Genevieve grabbed dibs on a beanbag, went to her beanbag. I'm like, all right, I'm going to go in a spot where you try to give everybody their personal space. So we each go to like three separate corners of the area that we have.

[00:27:58] Yeah. We were on the same page about that. I think it'd be awkward if one of us wanted to share our letters and read them to each other. Like, I think we're all three of us just wanted to like read our letters for the first time in our own spaces. So it's pretty nice. Yeah. And the letters helped with the plan. I feel like the survivor players, they tend to get the letters and they get more self-interested. And they seem more apt to make a move after they get a letter.

[00:28:23] I feel like it depends what your letter says and what your motivation is and where you're at in the game. Because mine was the opposite. And I know there's this scene because it's burned in my mind because I hate it. But it's basically me crying about how I have no friends in the game. And I've got this letter from my dad being like, can't wait to hear about all these friends you've made. And it was just like, holy. Yeah. Oh, my goodness. This is holy cannoli. This is so different than who I am at home.

[00:28:53] And like, how do I reconcile that? So, yeah, I think it's it's so individual. I don't know, Andy, Sam, how did you guys feel? Honestly, my letters didn't like. I don't think they impacted my game strategy at all, my mindset, my mentality. I just I think it was a great opportunity to connect with the three of us together and kind of have some sort of emotional. Because I think you are right, Rob, that sometimes it makes you more self-motived, like self-interested.

[00:29:21] Um, but I think when you're that close to the end, I feel like everybody is already very tunnel visioned on winning and getting to the end. But I think in that process, it can be very easy to forget about the interpersonal aspects of the game and the fact that it is the relationships and the connections that allow you to mobilize strategies and make those moves that you want to.

[00:29:45] Um, and then part of it is just the stars aligning that Andy said of, yeah, it fueled you. Hey, go make that move. Go win the game for Andy. For me, for Genevieve, it was kind of like talking about her friends and her relationships and how that she can find camaraderie with other people. And for where each of us were at in the game and what our motivations were, it aligned us in a way where we were all interested in the same objective. Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

[00:30:12] I mean, like in a, in a general sense, the letters kind of kick you into gear, um, it helps put things into perspective, you know, in a way where it kind of just frees you to play the game that you, you know, you want to play, like just, just do your best. But I think the bonding agent aspect of it is also like pretty, this is kind of a random poll. Like you helped me, help me out. So Triple H, uh, reward as the spy vote came into play, uh, with Ben.

[00:30:43] Yes. Ben, Lauren, Devin, and Ashley. Yeah. So it reminds me of that. It reminds me of that. That was a reward. These, those four or so were not like necessarily aligned, but they had a really good, uh, level and sliders reward and it kicked them into like to become very conspiratorial with each other. And then that worked for a round or two before it blew up, but yeah, it's interesting because I think Lauren picked the people to go on that reward. She had that idea in mind.

[00:31:08] Uh, and this is interesting in that, uh, it was not as though, uh, Sam, uh, you know, had the exact plan in mind when you pick the people for the reward, even though these were, uh, people you were excited about. Uh, where if Andy is already thinking about things, uh, he didn't pick the people for this. How do you, how do you mean?

[00:31:31] Uh, that in terms of, uh, Andy's day 21 idea, he was, but he couldn't pick the people for the reward where Lauren picked the four people that she specifically wanted to like, Hey, I'm going to build this new Alliance. And these are the people that are in it. Um, I think that was part of like the magic of that day in general. And it was part like why I personally was so confident in everything.

[00:31:57] Um, obviously once we're sitting there, we're at the sanctuary, uh, Andy opens up strategy talk. He kind of gives his elevator pitch, right. Of what he wants to see happen. Um, we kind of troubleshoot some ideas. We, we bounce, get more information from him on, uh, for example, the rate, Rachel steal a vote, right. We get that piece of information to kind of just get a, a feel of the board and what we're, what we're up against.

[00:32:21] Um, but as we're talking, obviously they're pulling us for confessional and we're each going off one at a time. So while we're having this big conversation of the three of us now, I have conversation one-on-one time with Andy. I have one-on-one time with Genevieve, Andy and Genevieve have one-on-one time. Um, and I think Genevieve and I were last. Um, so I think Genevieve and Andy went, then I sat with Andy and then I finally got to talk with Genevieve.

[00:32:46] And it was like, you know, we look at each other kind of what is going on? Because this was kind of our Hail Mary idea. And yet before we could even open our mouth to broach the subject of strategy and he's on it, he wants to do it. And she's like, I think he's pulling our leg. I'm like, I don't know. I think he's, I think he's doing it. So I think that's part of the reason why we were so confident. And it's like, our idea was also like in his brain before we got there.

[00:33:13] And then he pitches it and then I win and I bring the right people for him to actually mobilize the idea that he had. Kind of perfection where I'm like, all right, yeah, we're good. Maybe not as realistic as I should have been because we were two idols and a steal a vote. But, um, you know, oh, well. Well, you talk about this initial idea and the workshop he did. So Andy, how much of the final product was in that original idea? Was it a different sketch than what we ultimately got?

[00:33:41] Uh, the skeleton was exactly how it came about, but what wasn't solidified is like all the dirty details. I think that, and I want to give, let me give a shout out right now to the, the other people who are left in the final seven. I, in my mind, I feel like we had to spend all night, the three of us cooking up a very detailed, intricate plan. And we'll get to this, not just for the final seven, but for the final six and then for the final five, et cetera.

[00:34:08] Um, because the other people in the game were very perceptive, very smart, um, and could boil it very easily because they had all these advantages. Right. Um, and so we, it took a long time. Like we, and again, the show portrayed it really well. We talked deep into the night.

[00:34:28] Um, we kind of got off topic a few times as the wine was flowing, but, uh, then we got back on topic and we had to, to, uh, develop the idea a lot. So a lot of the stuff with the idol, we threw a lot of ideas out there that didn't make it into the final product in the room itself, but we're, but we're, we're smart. Um, what was, what was the one that stuck at, stuck out that you wish we wanted to paint a picture? We wanted to all align on what the sanctuary was set up like in a way that it wasn't true.

[00:34:57] Um, we wanted to say that it was like this, uh, it looked like the rainforest cafe or something with all the, all the bushes, all the shrubs and all the trees. Do you remember this? I don't remember this at all. I don't remember this at all. You don't remember this? All right. So we wanted, we wanted to paint an alternative idea of what the sanctuary looked like to, uh, plant the seeds of like a plausible scenario in which Genevieve did a secret mission to procure the idol at the sanctuary. Vague. That's one that comes to mind. You remember?

[00:35:27] Oh. We scrapped it. I remember. There had to be some weird behavior from me that could explain how something could have happened that you guys didn't. They were very, I remember that you two were very in the weeds about the idol, which obviously was pivotal to like them believing the idea was literally in the weeds to find the, but it was like, I was in the weeds of the bucket of beer. And then the second bucket of beer. So we, we had a detailed plan and we needed a lot of the detail.

[00:35:54] I think we were way more detailed than we needed to be on stuff. Like sometimes they tell you, right. You can tell when somebody is lying, if they have too much information, um, you know, they're giving offering up too many details. And I do think there was part of it is like, Andy is going to say that he woke up in the middle of the night and saw Genevieve digging through something. And then she, he saw Genevieve pull me for a chat into the bushes. And then we were talking on the side and he thought maybe she found an idol and we didn't ended up needing any of that. We just were like, Hey, I think Genevieve found something and it worked.

[00:36:26] Sort of. But I feel like we did like, I think what we did is we came up with a lot of ideas and we edited down. And we pared it down. Yeah. Yeah. Thinned it into the right thing. But to that, to that specific point, like we did sort of have a fake choreography of the night where I, and I did tell the other lines this, that like, I saw the two of you talking by yourselves at night, which completely shattered any trust I had with you, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:36:50] Um, we, we, yeah, I, it was, I thought it was fun for me to kind of script a complete fabrication of how the whole night went, um, in a way that we would all like stick to this. Sort of details of the same story to make it believable. We did a lot of improv, Rob. Yeah. A lot of improv. Well, like we, we also had plans. So I think what was material, um, was it couldn't be set in stone because there was still a variable of an immunity challenge.

[00:37:18] And so what we had really spent time going through thoughtfully, which paid off the next day, I think is, okay, how are we going to communicate with each other? And it was established, not all three of us. It will go in this way, in this order. And if we need to regroup, it's going to be like 30 seconds and you're going to get a name and that's what you're going to do. And then how do we make the fake idol believable? Oh, we have the flag paint. Okay. You guys sit on the campfire on this side and talk.

[00:37:45] And so I can grab the paint over here and we can do arts and crafts. So like some of the things to make it believable, like yes, going through the story over and over and over again. So it's going to be consistent, but then the mechanics of how you're going to communicate. Cause to Andy's earlier point, post merge world, you don't have much time. And like, as soon as people feel like you're working together, all of a sudden, maybe it's not plausible that he feels like he's on the out. So those are the details that I feel like paid off. Yeah.

[00:38:10] And part of the charade in general was that Andy had sour feelings towards Genevieve and I, Genevieve specifically, he had sour feelings towards, which was really plausible. But part of that became Andy and Genevieve can't talk, like not allowed to speak to each other basically whatsoever. So I can talk to Genevieve. I can talk to Andy.

[00:38:32] If Andy hears some piece of information that requires emergency meeting, he had a code word that he would say to me in passing, which would, which would get me to go alert Genevieve that we would go into the woods to go plan, which was mushroom pasta. He would talk about the mushroom pasta. And that meant SOS. Things are bad. We need to talk. But other than that, it's like, keep everybody at a need to know basis and let the information flow.

[00:39:01] And then, like I said, Rob, that in improv the night before was, I think my favorite part, which is okay. Hey, Genevieve, you have a fake idol and you are pitching this fake idol to a teeny. You're showing teeny the fake idol. Okay. Andy, you're teeny Genevieve. You're you. I'll be me. Let's practice the conversation. And we would go. And so now Genevieve does. Hey, I have an idol. And the first one is, oh, really? That's great news. What are we going to do with it?

[00:39:31] The second one is, no, you don't show me right now. And it's way more aggressive. And it's be prepared for the whatever the reaction might be to improv on the spot. And we were drunk on wine while doing. Yeah. Right. Very drunk. It was some of our best work, I think, is that improv. So when it comes to the branding of this, can you confirm or deny that Operation Italy had a different original name that may have gotten shut down? Confirmed.

[00:40:00] So did you just like step into confessional and you're like, it's the Italian job and someone immediately shouts it down saying can't do that? We were cooking up the plan. The sun was setting and we were talking about the details. And then we took a 45 minute. Five minute to come up with the name of the move. We're like, listen, this is cool enough for a move. We got to do it. We started spitballing. And yes, our first idea was was Sam's.

[00:40:29] And it was the one that the Internet clamored for, which is the the Italian job. But may I in retrospect, I am very, very glad that it was not greenlit. Got to get that SEO. Exactly. Like it's a whole movie. Like that already exists. Right. Why are you going to do like it's going to be super whatever redundant. That's going to be terrible. I'm glad it was, you know, now it's now it's original. And there were probably three iterations before that were horrific.

[00:40:58] Nothing more new era survivor coded than the SEO on this move would have been terrible. Crazy, crazy. But not the tiramisu. But then we're like, but then you got to vote out Sue. And is that the right move? There was a conversation about voting out Sue just to call it tiramisu. Are you serious? Yeah. That was a real debate that was had while we were eating tiramisu and drinking wine was what if we just voted out Sue instead?

[00:41:24] Which in hindsight could have been a cool move with her idol too, I guess. Right. Yeah. So I'm happy with Operation Italy, although I will say my one regret of the entire move is not the name of the move, but the typography of the move. The episode title is Operation Colon Italy. And I have to say that this is my fault. I regret it. I told you, I was adamant that they had to have a colon.

[00:41:53] I was adamant it had to have a colon because that's what I thought all the secret operations had, like Mission Impossible. As it turns out, no, like if you look at historical operation, whatever, they do not have a colon. And so it is my stance on it as co-author is that, yes, the episode title has a colon, but when we talk about the move itself, I don't want the colon. And just like that. But how does that impact our SEO? SEO is no longer the most new era.

[00:42:22] That's no longer the most new era sentence ever. We're talking typography. Yeah. So Mission Impossible has a colon. The things that are different military operations do not have a colon. That is correct. And that's what this was. So if I kind of Google it, I want to. You can't. Yeah. If you wear glasses, you know the drill. You don't replace them until you absolutely have to. A scratch, that's livable.

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[00:44:13] Can we talk about coming back to camp the next day? Because you were not aware of this, but Teenie was feeling a big way, especially towards you, Sam. This is where Teenie says, Sam just lost the game. Does quite the flattering impression of you. When you get back, did you catch any word of this? What were you told about what happened while you were gone? Yeah, I mean, number one, I was aware that like animosity was probably going to be a thing.

[00:44:40] Reminder for those at home, the last episode of Survivor we watched before flying out to film 47 was the Applebee's meltdown. So it was fresh on my mind how angry people might be about not being taken on a reward. Um, I think I mostly just felt awkwardness at first and being like, okay, this is kind of the one person who really talked to me was Rachel. Um, and she was just kind of like, I mean, yeah, it sucks. People are mad, but like, what are you going to do?

[00:45:10] You can only bring two people and was kind of addressing it for what it was. Didn't get much from Sue. Didn't get much from Caroline. Didn't get much from Teenie. Uh, and I think it was the first thing out of Andy's mouth when we first convened for the first time. It was like, okay, go execute the plan. And an hour or so went by, uh, where, you know, we had had our morning and then I finally got time with Andy again, where I'm like, all right, how are things going? First of all, Teenie hates you. What? And what's going on?

[00:45:39] It's like, yeah, it's, it's not good. I think we can smooth that over in the future. No, no, not going to happen. Teenie hates you. What? Not on my radar whatsoever, but then actually started to become a factor later on. I would say, because, um, we had laid out in our detailing that if Rachel wins the immunity, we're just going to vote Caroline.

[00:46:04] I started to really want to vote Teenie out because the plan, uh, which this is a good segue as well, was sort of contingent upon swinging a fourth to our side in the fallout of the move. Uh, and I started to feel like there was no way we could ever pull Teenie to our side because Teenie hates me apparently. And Andy had to let me know. Um, so that started to sort of put a, a wrinkle in things the day of.

[00:46:31] You didn't want to make it operation Teenie Misu and just go after Teenie then? Did not. No, no. I thought we were working with Teenie. Genevieve obviously was working with Teenie. Um, Andy and Teenie were working together very closely as well at this point in the game where it only made sense for them to keep Teenie. It just started to scare me about the fallout of like, is this ever going to be a working relationship?

[00:46:57] And is this something my allies are going to be able to smooth over for me or is it too far gone? But had no idea the extent of it until, um, after everything, like after filming and stuff, probably. Yeah. So when you talk about things like that, where you're having concerns, okay, maybe should we switch the plan to Teenie? Like how much conversation are the three of you able to have about potential tweaks to this big caper you're pulling off?

[00:47:26] Within the scope of that day, every second that the three of us spent together made it onto the show. From my perspective. I don't think it cut out any of the, because there was no, like. Even Andy and I, like. Yeah, the plan was to have no correspondence, except in like, except that the cards fell just right. Um, and so I think I talked to Andy the one time before, like when I get the full initial download of how everything's going.

[00:47:53] And then the only other time was a perfect sort of split when Genevieve and I show Teenie the idol. Um, and then as we're in the process of doing that, Andy sort of walks up on the conversation and it provide a perfect, like. Oh, I can, I can spend five seconds with Andy real quick while Genevieve is off doing her thing. Yeah.

[00:48:14] And the one thing we had agreed on in the plan started intro to Andy was if Teenie asks and Sam's there, just stay with me so that you can shut it down and we'll move it on. And as soon as Teenie asked, Sam's like, Andy, let's go this way. And so thank goodness we improv'd because the guys went off book a little bit and then had to, I was left to my own devices, which is never a good thing in Survivor. Oh my God. Let's talk about you making your own device here, Genevieve. How did this fake idol come together?

[00:48:43] Like, were you squirreling yourself away in the corner of the jungle making this as soon as you came back? Yes. Um, yes and no. So the original craft tool Sam gave me went into the cargo pants pocket I had along with a scoop of purple paint. Cause I was like, if I just shove purple paint. Oh, you went full soon by just reaching your hand and grabbing paint on your hand. Yeah, fully, fully.

[00:49:10] And, um, well, first I had to get the paint into my bag, then get it somewhere where I could get the paint, like scoop it into my pocket. And then I was going to swoosh everything around so that it becomes purple because if it's not colored right for the tribe, it's as soon as someone looks at it, it's not believable. Um, but it's so hot that the paint just basically dried immediately in my pocket and kind of ruined the materials.

[00:49:34] But Sam had a ton of materials cause it's the idols now are so easy to fabricate because they are a string and beads, which is plentiful on every torch at camp, every sign at camp. So it's, it's really easy to make a fake idol. If you've ever made a bracelet, you can make a fake idol. Um, we had a fake, we had like one meeting cause Genevieve was supposed to paint. My fake gotta idol was like initial plan a, and then we had one meeting where she kind of told me like, this is going bad though.

[00:50:03] The paint is like fall, like coming out of my pocket a little bit and it's getting messy and we're not getting like, it was bad. And so I needed to get more materials. And so then I had saved like the things that were wrapping tree mail, which just so happened to be black string with like purple beads. Um, and so I kind of took everything out of my bag and like gave it to her. I'm like, here's a bunch of arts and crafts supplies with purple beads and string go have fun. Yeah.

[00:50:30] So I had a real idol and then some new material and basically just braided a repeat. Yeah. Genevieve, uh, can we stop down on a phrase that I don't believe has great SEO of a pocket full of paint that you literally are taking like wet paint and like scooping it into your pocket? Yes. Yeah. So the, the paint for the, for the flags comes in little jars.

[00:50:57] So you just kind of pop the lid and then you can like scoop a handful and put it in your pocket, massage the beads. And then in theory, massage the beads and the string in your cargo pants pocket, go to the ocean, wash your hand. And then you have beautiful purple materials. She was afraid if she took the jar that somebody would notice that the purple jar was missing. But I took the jar for a minute into my bag so that I could then step away to do this. And then I came back and everything was going to shit. And I was like, oh my God. And my bag's on the side.

[00:51:25] So what if I've now just spilled purple paint all over my clothes? Cause how do you not draw attention to that? So I would, for future idol makers, avoid the paint unless you have like a perfect moment where you can really use it. It's, it's, it was an absolute mess and it didn't pay off. Yeah. I don't know. What's so interesting about this plan is that as was mentioned before, the initial target was not the ultimate one. You all were going after Rachel.

[00:51:52] What was it that made her the primary in this? And I guess we could also segue that into also what made Caroline the secondary and ultimately the final target. I think the thing that made Rachel the primary target is the same thing that made her win the game. So that one's obvious. Caroline, do you guys remember the Caroline logic? Well, so I mean, yeah, Rachel, I think was the idea. The main idea for, for Rachel was obviously the threat status of the four of them. Rachel was by far the, the tallest poppy there.

[00:52:23] But then also viewed as kind of the glue of that alliance in a lot of ways. Rachel was, that was you, Sam. Yeah. Right. That was the blue guy. Genevieve is the paint guy. Andy, do you have an hour to grasp? What it be? I mean, like Rachel was the person that kept pulling that underdog five together. She's the one that pulled them into the water. Well, to begin with, she was the one that was kind of like, you know, she had a relationship with Caroline and a relationship with Sue and she had been working on a relationship with Andy.

[00:52:51] So our thought was Rachel leaves the game. Teenie is not loyal to Caroline and Sue at all. Teenie will come with us at that point. If Rachel is out, Caroline kind of becomes a free agent in that own, like in that regard. I, it just felt like more pieces were freed up if Rachel was removed from the game. And then I think the logic for Caroline is just who, who was more likely to stay loyal to Rachel, who was going to go with Rachel to the end.

[00:53:21] And we felt we had a better shot with Teenie still in the game of having Teenie with us than we would have had getting Caroline to go with us. Yeah, because I feel like in a world that Teenie leaves, then we're just three, three again against Caroline, Sue and Rachel. And it's not productive. And that makes sense again from your perspective, because we weren't necessarily at the time, I think, privy to how close Caroline and Rachel were, how close Sue and Rachel would be. So again, if they were seen as a bit of a trio or at least a working relationship,

[00:53:49] it does make sense then to try to strike at one of them and swing over Teenie. Yeah. And I think the strength of those relationships in particular definitely got probably under edited specifically. Rachel and Caroline were super close. But the other thing that made Rachel the primary target is that she kind of, well, she was in a really great position in a way because she had the best of both worlds where she kind of is part of this underdog majority, but that her underdog status was like very stale PR.

[00:54:18] She was not seen as an underdog in a way, but we didn't think the jury would like, the jury wouldn't see her as like low threat. Right. So she gets to be with the people with low threat level while having a lot of respect from the jury. And she was coming on strong with, with the challenges already. Right. So I was thinking, you know, with the, to make the move at seven as impactful as possible,

[00:54:45] shake up as much as it could, like she would be the ideal target. And like, it's, you know, someone who would be perceived as one of the bigger threats taken out. But then, yeah, with Caroline, I think it's like what Sam said is, is true. Um, I don't remember the, the, the specifics, but I, like we did just, it was all scenarios. You know, we played all the scenarios. Uh, we, I think we landed on Caroline as a secondary target.

[00:55:16] Um, obviously she was really close with Sue and we wanted to keep Dini. That's the one thing, but, uh, we mapped out, I think we mapped out, uh, what the final six and final five would look like. Um, To tell you, cause this is all, this is obviously the big sliding doors moment for Rachel, right? Because then she'll become immune for the rest of the game. So what were you planning to do if you got her out here? I think the answer is different for all three of us. Yeah. I think Andy probably takes out me next.

[00:55:45] Like that's what I would do if I was Andy. I'd swing back. Andy's immediately turning on us. That is correct. Um, yeah, I think I'm riding with us three and, but probably banking on the fact that Genevieve gets cut. Uh, I, I wouldn't want to do it myself, but then would hope that people cut Genevieve so that I could go to the end with somebody, another group of three. Um, I think Genevieve, what, what's your plan? Go with us three. Probably you win that.

[00:56:14] So God, I had no long-term plans. My long-term plan looked like try and wake up here tomorrow. So I don't have an honest answer. It would have like, Sam would have been a given and teeny would have been a preference, but how you slice and dice the rest would have been like a product of circumstance. I, I think the thing on my mind, I thought it was a really good outcome of the final seven round. If the three of us actually build some momentum thinking that like we're, we are building

[00:56:43] some type of alliance, new alliance structure that could be stickier than the fluidity that we've seen before. And I also wanted to take that move to like show Sam and Genevieve. This is a recurring theme for me. I wanted to let the mask revealed a little bit and be like, make, do a big move with them. Right. And now they're seeing a different dimension of my game so that I could send them to the jury right after, you know, like rehabbing my image. Yeah.

[00:57:10] Um, and so, yeah, um, I, I honestly kind of, I, I just know that we had all the specifics, at least the ones that we aligned on hammered down. Um, but it was, it didn't, didn't come to fruition, but I think if Rachel goes home there, Andy has the flexibility to go either way. As soon as it's Caroline or Sue, the one that's left is going to be done with him. So that, that makes it tougher.

[00:57:36] Which was a talking point though, for Genevieve and I, cause I think we were, we were aware of the fact that Andy sees an opportunity to take out Rachel and then go to the end with like Sue and teeny. And he's probably going to jump at that and we're not in his long-term plans. So we kind of had the break glass in case of emergency plan, which is out Andy to everybody in the game and make everybody hate him so that he goes home next and can't flip on us, which was valid. That was a factor. That's valid.

[00:58:06] But another part of my thinking during that period of time where, and again, this burned me in the very, this, it burned me in the next round, but I started to develop this idea that no matter what I did to anybody in the game, they still wouldn't see me as the biggest fish to fry the next round. And so I just, this is a brand of hubris probably, but I was just like, I'm going to be invincible no matter what. And no matter what happens, people are gonna be mad at me.

[00:58:33] They're going to like, you can spin things against me, but they're not going to just want to take one of these end game rounds and vote me out. They're still going to want to sit with me. Um, so I have that in mind. I think that's right, Andy. I think you're right with that, but I think then the problem comes then at final three. I know. I know. It would all hinge on the speech. He's in a mode where he's worrying about, he's not worrying about that right then. It's like, he's got to get there first.

[00:58:58] But do you remember, we did have a scenario where if Rachel went at final six, we wanted to, I don't think this was going to come to fruition, but we agreed that we were going to pound the pavement and say, we're going to rocks. Oh yeah. The three of us. We were not doing that. We were not doing that. No, we were. You were going to try to play a chicken piccata with somebody and have them hopefully try to sway their vote by threatening a deadlock. Yeah. Something like that.

[00:59:24] But Sam, you were not going to go to rocks or you were not going to tell people you were going to go to rocks. I don't think, well, I think realistically both Genevieve and I, and probably Andy as well thought that there was a future with Tini after Operation Italy where we didn't necessarily think a three, three deadlock was realistic, but like it was Tini was always going to be on our side. I think it was going to be more of a power struggle for who ended up coming out of, especially

[00:59:51] Hey, Rachel goes, Caroline and Sue are now free agents who comes away with control of those votes and you know, where I think that has a lot to do with it. I certainly think that we probably end up back in a power struggle with Andy and we sort of like are two ships passing in the night just because, you know, you see the writing on the wall of opportunity to try to get yourself into that, that dream final three. You know, you had this late night at the sanctuary. You talk about how the wine was flowing.

[01:00:20] Was anybody feeling the after effects of the wine the next day? Because Mike and I, the last time trip that we did, we talked about an episode of Survivor of the Amazon where we had the family reward and on the family reward, we were over served. And I too had a lot of wine and had not the tribe. The next. Raro. Raro got faded, I heard. Yes. Yes.

[01:00:50] I don't think so. No. I've never had a hangover in Fiji and I've like the most I've drank in the last couple of years has been in Fiji. I've never had a hangover. I think your adrenaline is like just going and you are metabolized. Like, yeah. I mean, you're, you feel like crap for other reasons, but I'd never felt that. We didn't have a hangover. Maybe you ate enough. The mosquitoes were really bad though. We ate a lot. So my sleep was kind of below average at the sanctuary. It was, it was worse at the sanctuary than it was at camp for sure. Yeah.

[01:01:20] Cause we were being bitten. That's what they say. But I remember, no, we were locked in when we woke up cause we, we woke up before dawn. Had more pumps. And it was like, right. And it was like, step one of this plan is stuff our faces with more carbs to get us going. Cause we had like three minutes to do so. And so I'm curious about the timing though. So, okay. So you, that night 21, you go to, you go to the sanctuary, you plan operation Italy, you come back.

[01:01:47] And is the immunity challenge very shortly thereafter, after you come back? Cause I feel like that in the new era, especially, I feel like they run these immunity challenges earlier in the day. Especially cause it was a tribal day too, I believe. I just, I don't know. I remember that we had the time to lay the groundwork, you know, in the episode, it's like pretty faithful, right? The first, the first segment where we're laying out the plan was all before the immunity challenge. Yeah.

[01:02:13] I think it was a, I think it was kind of early though, because I mean, and maybe this is just because we didn't have much strategy to talk, but it was a, it was a long afternoon for me. I like, I remember it being a long day because after the, after the plan, it was sort of, I'm sorry, after immunity, it becomes what's plan B. Are we still doing Caroline or are we switching it to teeny? We kind of locked in Caroline. I went fishing and I spent like two, I spent two hours spearfishing that day.

[01:02:40] Um, kind of just being like, okay, it's going to be what it's going to be. Like, I'm not going to talk strategy with anybody. Um, and trusting that like the pieces would fall into place. So I, and I took Rachel spearfishing with me, which kept Rachel from talking strategy to anybody or, or thing, but we had enough time to be doing a lot of stuff after immunity. Um, so maybe it was earlier than usual. Cause you don't always get that. Speaking of spearfishing Genevieve, what was the more enjoyable sanctuary experience operation Italy or Zach Brown's concert?

[01:03:09] Oh, you'd be honest because it's so Zach Brown's concert. She liked that one. Yeah. I listen, there is a bucket of beers at both. I recall both with, uh, you know, fun, fun memories. Operation Italy was the best cause it was more like personally meaningful. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. I appreciate it. Zach Brown's song, like your own personal loved one's letter, you know, your little dose of home.

[01:03:37] My home doesn't look that much like Zach Brown's song. It didn't really like remind me of home in that way. It's like a letter from my husband and my parents. Um, but no, the sanctuary is always a good time. I've been very fortunate to get to go a couple of times. It's good stuff. But one thing I don't, Oh, sorry, Rob, go ahead. No, finish. I want to throw up your job. Can we talk a little bit about, cause this is where I go back and forth on this move.

[01:04:03] And I think so many other great moves in survivor or things that could have been a great move is like the sweet spot of trusting the move and the people you're with are bailing. Because if it wasn't for Sam, like whispering confidence into my ear, I would have probably backed out on this and started contingency planning, blown up Andy's spot that blows up this move. It never happened. So like, how do you get the stars to align where you have people and what's the fine line

[01:04:31] of it's too good to be true or trust the process because you can only pick one path and you only know if it's the right path. Once it's played out, like for every operation, Italy, there's some schmuck who gave up an immunity necklace and got voted out, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I think, how do you judge? Like we could just be three duckies. True. A hundred percent. And I think Rob, that was your, your bold prediction after survivor 47 is that this would try to be replicated in some facet. Bad prediction, right?

[01:05:01] Yeah. Not even close. Not yet. Open air, open mind. Have we had anything that was even, uh, comes close? Like I think survivor 48 had already been filmed, right? Or they didn't see survivor 47. So maybe the origin of trace late chase coming at the sanctuary where, which is kind of where they locked in. Yeah. You know what was closer to that? It does. It's not the same. It's not the same, but I was reminded of it a little bit with the, uh, what's the other,

[01:05:29] the 49 Alliance bottoms up there. It didn't, it didn't call me in like this move that we remember necessarily, but, um, it was right before the merge and they had an overnight and they, they came together and like, yeah. And emotionally related, but conspiratorial way. Yeah. Uh, I, and maybe there's some of the DNA of some of the stuff that, and, uh, that devins and Christian are doing in survivor 50, uh, that not to make it full circle Genevieve.

[01:05:58] Uh, but, uh, I mean, I do feel like that there are some, there's some capers, uh, to it. Yeah. But I think that's the, that's easier when you have the like foundation of a relationship where the harder thing for new player seasons is like, it's, it's a gut call 50, 50 and my gut would've been wrong. I wouldn't have gone through with it. And so like, it's a combo and on one side of the coin, you're a dummy for believing it. And on the other side, you're a dummy for, you know, not going with the plan that could have saved you.

[01:06:28] I think, I think it is what you said though. I think it is a, it's the cliche answer. Cause it is truly, this is the heart of survivor as a whole, but it is the people and like knowing the people that you're playing with or, or trying to make a move with. Um, I think I had the benefit of working very closely in a duo with Andy for the first 10 days of the game. And I had the, the privilege of working in a duo with Genevieve for the second half of

[01:06:53] the game where I get to day 21, basically 10 days with Andy, five, six days with Genevieve at that point, working with you, where I felt like I knew both of you and I knew your motivations and his motivations and how we speak to one another to know that you were both on the level. Um, and I'm not sure you and Andy didn't have enough familiarity with each other. I think too, for you, especially Andy had the control, like you said, so he kind of knew that things were going to go a certain way.

[01:07:21] I don't know if you had that level of familiarity and like you mentioned, Hey, Christian and Devin's, they have this relationship outside of the game that allows them to have a level of confidence in each other inside of the game in a different way. So I do think it is about like building the familiarity with those people to understand them. And I think that gives you another level of confidence when you try to execute something with them in the game. That's true. And I think, especially at that point in the game, this is another speaking of Devin's,

[01:07:48] I think probably my favorite thing about Rick Devin's is that he knows, um, when to go for broke and just pave one path forward. And I think my, a lot of my most confident and good feelings about Operation Italy came from this certainty that I had, that it was the one realistic path forward for me. And so I'm like, let's just do it. And I didn't have any stress about it because I'm like, it's either going to work and I think

[01:08:16] it will work or I'll feel good that I tried, tried it and didn't just like hedge and just, uh, I never wanted to just like, I never wanted to lose survivor by attrition. I never, I never wanted to go out quiet. And I think that's, yeah. And the flip side of this, right? Like if you, if you're looking at a counter example of, of what exactly what you were describing, Genevieve, I would look at survivor 45 and somebody like, uh, Jake and Katura who they, right.

[01:08:46] Like they're not, they're not able to get on the same page for so many moves that could have changed the game because they didn't have a relationship with one another. And so now it's like, they're coming to each other being like, Hey, this works for both of us. And they both know it works for both of them, but they're like lack of faith in the other person makes them create contingency plans and go rogue in a way that like they spoil what could have been a couple of very good moves along the way. Yeah. And Sam, it's funny that you bring up Jake, cause the thing that I was thinking of when

[01:09:14] you first mentioned his name was how he has the plan at when Caleb gets voted out of like, here's what we're going to do. And, and they give you like the reenactment of how it's going to go at tribal council. So it was sort of like a, he like primed the pump for the editors of like, Oh man, imagine we could do a whole spy episode. It's the whole plan that ends up being a tease cause it blows up. And, and, and I mean, it happens to him again at the final five D should go

[01:09:44] home in fifth place there. Um, if, if him and Kintura can get on the same page, Rick Evans D when did we start talking big brother, Mike? Everything old is new again. I want to know briefly on the immunity challenge here. Cause I do think as great as the work, all three of you doing this episode, there is one reason why it's rated 9.3 on IMDB. And it is Andy hip thrusting when he's trying to move that in the challenge. I believe this is Rob. I think this is when you had Bryce on and he officially declared Andy, the freakiest freak of the season. That sounds about right. Yeah.

[01:10:14] Because of these pelvic thrusts, Andy, did you have any sense as to what was going on with your lower body during that challenge? Did that one even make the top five of my hip thrusting? I don't know. I don't even know. There were a lot to be honest. Multiple head thrusts and tongue moments. I just, I had no awareness of how my body was, was moving in those moments. I was just not fixated. The only thing that I kind of was like knew was funny in the moment was the ball and like my tongue coming out with the ball.

[01:10:43] Um, but other than that, I kind of lived that one in slow motion. So we, we had no idea that this was a thing with Andy either. That was the most shocking thing. Jeff wasn't doing commentary on it during the moment. The most jarring thing watching the season back is seeing all the innuendos of Andy performing in challenges. Yeah. That's the hinge movement. The hinge movement. It's a full body motion. Rachel has a couple of advantages. She has the idol. She also has the vote block.

[01:11:12] Was the vote block something that was talked about in your discussions? That's why we needed mushroom pasta code. Cause if something was going to be played, it's like, well, what are we going to do? The two emergencies Andy can't get on the majority split. And it's weird. Like he would have to force it too much to get in the majority split. And there's insistent that he's on the minority or, uh, he hears that the vote block is going into play.

[01:11:37] Those were the two sort of like extreme SOS things that would have set us up. So to the point of like what we were doing all day, most of my energy was allocated to our babysitting the split vote and getting it right. Um, and having the block vote not being used. Um, and I, it took a lot of, you know, the planning paid off because a lot of that stuff, um, the, the moments where those were decided was really on an edge, right? Like it could have gone either way.

[01:12:07] Um, I think the thing that I had in my head was that for both the getting on the right side of the vote split or ensuring there was a vote split, because honestly the underdog Alliance wasn't sold or even predisposed to doing a split vote in that round. So that took a lot of engineering, but also preventing the vote block was the theme was like just risk aversion with respect to Genovese idol. And so what was good about, you know, when you're in that spot and you're trying to make a vote split happen that you're

[01:12:37] going to like ruin, like the one that you can't push too hard, you know, that's like the thing, right. But what I felt, the reason I felt the logic, like that I used to feel good about pushing a little bit was that I kind of truly believe that if I were loyal to them, the, the vote split would be the right move. And that putting three on Genevieve was going to be the more logical move. It was going to be the path of least resistance when it comes to risk, because they wanted to dance around it because teeny really wanted to say I'm

[01:13:05] out. Right. So like they, uh, as a group wanted, um, to scare Genevieve into playing the idol, but not ensuring that would be flush. Right. And so really the only way to ensure that we don't see the idol at the final six in this scenario is to put more on Genevieve. Right. So I was, I felt very confident pushing that and like saying it 12 times to kind of drill that point home, um, with this sort of idea that this unspoken, not unspoken thing, but I've tried really hard to like be one of those Genevieve votes.

[01:13:34] Right. And then with the block of vote, the argument I made to Rachel was along the same lines as you know, um, we need it for at six. Yeah. Yeah. We need it at the final six. Um, man, there was like, wait, you remember the rationale behind that specifically? Well, I think, I think there's like the clear idea, right? Like Sue and teeny or sorry, uh, Sue and Caroline are a duo. Yeah. You know, you and teeny are sort of this duo. If Rachel is with you and teeny then, and you vote Genevieve out, well,

[01:14:03] now I'm a free agent who feels burned by, by them. Right. And so now you might have a three, three split. So you need the block of vote that you can use so that you make sure that your block of three can command the final six vote. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. And I was saying that wasn't our original plan. Like we wanted Rachel out, but the best thing that happened, I think for us was she wins immunity. So she has no real skin in the game. It's not worth it to spend her advantage. She's easily dissuaded out of playing it. So yeah. Yeah. It was actually really fortunate for us that she wasn't vulnerable.

[01:14:33] I definitely agree with that. Like, and I think that's something that's brought up. I agree that the way that it shook out, it was good that Rachel won immunity, but I, I also wouldn't assume exactly what would have happened if she hadn't won immunity. I think, Oh, I agree. I agree. You know what I mean? It's like, I think it was, I think she would have probably believed what Andy said, but it would have made her likelihood to play it higher than a little bit higher. For sure. I think it's a, what if it's an on played scenario?

[01:15:02] Because we would be trying hard to just make it work either way. Right. Yeah. So she had played it for Caroline though, or what she thought the vote. No, I don't think so. I think we could have gotten her if she wasn't a bit, it wasn't vulnerable, but I do think it made it a little smoother. Like Genevieve said, because it, I think similarly to Andy not wanting to like push too hard for like this person to go home or the like, not use, you know, you have to be kind of subtle with it. But I also don't think Rachel wanted to be too,

[01:15:31] I don't think she like, I don't know. I think she wanted to feel more trusting in the group and stuff. So if she didn't need to like force it, then. Yeah. And she wouldn't have used her idol. It was more likely she would use her block of vote, which would. Yes. A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. She was the one that played her shot in the dark to see if she needs to play the idol. So it makes, it makes sense. If you wear glasses, you know, the drill, you don't replace them until you absolutely have to a scratch. That's livable loose screw. Fine.

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[01:17:27] Was there a moment or an interaction that happened that you all either looked at each other or just internally thought, oh no, this is going to shit really quickly? I have mine. It was early, which is kind of good because then I was able to recover it. But we're really hyped up. We were getting ready to go to camp, do Operation Italy. Felt like, Sam, you can confirm, but it felt like the beginning of a sports game.

[01:17:55] Like a big sports game, you're just kind of amped up, ready to go. We go in, we're getting the choreography right, but the first combo I have with Rachel is just like, I'm going to play my block of vote. Like, we're not going to split it. I'm going to play my block of vote. They show it out of order. Like they show it kind of like in the lead up to the tribal, but it's the first combo that I have with Rachel. And to the point, like the logic we just said, but like I had to really be careful massaging the argument to get her off that

[01:18:24] and to kind of nudge people towards the right post-blit that I wanted. But that was the scariest I got, but I recovered pretty soon after. I think for me, it's Rachel winning immunity. Because like I'm begging for anybody else to show up and win immunity and come through in this thing. And not that it obviously ruined the plan. It was still able to be effective in its own way. But I think at its origin, it was set out to be a assassination of Rachel

[01:18:54] and kind of be like, take out this person who has so many people unwilling to take her out right now. And so that took a little bit out of gas because I just didn't think that Caroline, Teenie or Sue move had as much like oomph to it as much as it. So then it kind of, the purpose of it shook a little. It stopped becoming take out this big threat who opens up the rest of the game

[01:19:19] and started being a vehicle to create more voting blocks moving forward to advance, for me, myself, to the end of the game. Speaking of commitment to the plan, there's also the thing, the scenario where if one of you does win the immunity challenge, then we couldn't do the same exact plan. Yeah, it's like everything sucks. So that's, I just, we did, I do remember we thought of everything. The one thing that I remember was there was a pretty solid contingency plan

[01:19:48] if Sam in particular won immunity. If I won immunity, yeah. And it had, the main theme was getting Teenie to vote Rachel out before Genevieve. But I think I kind of forget the details. Maybe we should go back and forth. Also, now I'm so offended we didn't have an equally strong contingency plan for if I won immunity. It was harder or it was tricky? Well, no, yeah, I think a big part of it was reliant on Teenie though. And that Teenie relationship, like that is another thing for all of the,

[01:20:17] obviously the Rachel Caroline relationship is much stronger than it showed to be. And I think that that kind of went into a lot of our thinking. So much of it revolved around Teenie. And everyone, like all three of our individual relationships with Teenie for the night after, for the day of, for, hey, if I win immunity, is there a world where we can convince Teenie to get on board? Because the only other option is Genevieve. And that's less satisfying than taking me out, right?

[01:20:46] You would never going to be able to convince Teenie not to vote for me, but you might be able to get Teenie to not vote for Genevieve if it really came down to it. So, and then like, even on the day of, it kind of, that was the other plan, right? Is like, how do we play this off afterwards? Because all of us are technically burning Teenie in one vote. How do we play this off in order to salvage that relationship? Which was like another like equally fun layer,

[01:21:15] which I think is the one part that doesn't get its due credit on the show and in discourse about it. Because I think it's the, it matters not that much because Rachel has an idol in her pocket, but I think it was a really cool part of completing the move as a whole. It was a big component to the outcome of the move is to, to be just like, I think by virtue of breaking up the underdog structure, whether it was via Rachel or Caroline,

[01:21:45] would kind of make things fluid enough again so that we could capitalize our genuine connections with Teenie. So Genevieve and mine, not so much Sam at the time. But although it just fake connection, I would say. You had a key. I was keeping up appearances. Yeah. Teenie didn't know that I knew about the stuff, but. But having Teenie as a, as a number for us,

[01:22:12] but definitely for me was a big kicker of like solidifying how, you know, how we could go forward into the end game. And then to that point, I, I think we decided pretty late. I don't know. I don't think it was all pre-scripted. I think that right before Tribal, I had a combo with you, Sam. And I was like, this is how we're going to play it. Um, because there was, uh, Teenie at the 11th hour, kind of wanted to change his vote. Right. 11th hour.

[01:22:41] He was closer to voting with us than we had anticipated, which then kind of ruins it. And actually, Andy, this is where Andy got a little bit sneaky. You, I'm glad you were right. Yeah, no, we, we, we gotta air him out. Air him out. Andy, buckle up. We're going to air you out. So Teenie was prepared to vote with us. And then Andy misled Teenie. So he would be the sole swing.

[01:23:05] Andy had a conversation with me saying Teenie will do it. Teenie will vote Caroline and go with us. Do, do we do that or not? Because Andy was kind of playing it like Teenie, we're the middlemen. We're like deciding what's going to happen. And, and then I told Andy, it's your call. Like you're the one flipping on your alliance. So you're the one that decides if you want to do it alone or you don't want to do it alone.

[01:23:33] And Andy made the choice to tell Teenie that the vote was the same and don't vote for Caroline. And then he flipped and did it anyway without Teenie. I forgot about Andy, you little rascal. I forgot about Andy. That's all I wanted. And I think the logic to, not to speak for you Andy, but I think the logic is just like if Teenie does and flips, it's less cool of like a, less cool of a move. It's less, it's, and like for Andy specifically, it's not. Andy's like, I'm going to show him. I'm a threat. I'm a recatibrize. Coolness is a factor, but the thesis was like. Not a loser.

[01:24:02] Let me, let me blow up the game in a way that, you know, it all traces back to me and my thinking. Yeah. And so that kind of goes into the, like, I don't know if it is the, I just lost the game. Is that in the, is that in the show or not? Yeah. That's, that's a, well, that's Teenie saying that about how Sam quit the game because he took. Oh no, not that. No, it's different. Oh, different. Okay. I won't talk about it then because it's not in the show, but. Oh, come on. What are we doing? I think that's a rule.

[01:24:32] I'm going to let them be the judge. Well, we talked about. Teenie had a really. The reaction. It was a great, a very great. Tribal after the Caroline vote got read, uh, that Teenie was feeling particularly burned and hopeless mainly, I think because of not to put it all on Andy again, but I think because, you know, there was that conversation, Hey, you and me should do this vote told, no, we're not doing that vote just to see the vote happen without you anyways.

[01:25:01] Um, I think led to particularly hurt feelings right in the moment. But then I think also set us up to do what we did back at the beach afterwards, which is kind of maintain a facade of everybody being mad at everybody and shrug our shoulders and act like it was one happy accident that it all happened, which ended up pulling. Right. Right. So that was quite, uh, it was like a lot of improv, but that was the vision.

[01:25:29] If we were going to keep Teenie out of the boat, um, to just keep our world building intact after this vote. Right. So that we could, you know, keep painting the picture where, uh, we didn't conspire to like flip the game. Just, just ourselves. That's it. And Sam, you're right.

[01:25:47] And Andy, yeah, it doesn't get spoken about, but so much of the plan was also when we get back from camp from tribal, how does this then build into next one? Particularly important for Andy. Um, and that was really well executed. Good job, Andy. I didn't appreciate it enough at the time. That was really well executed. It was my big, it was my favorite part of it. Like that the, the night after was my favorite part of, of operation Italy. I think it was pretty euphoric.

[01:26:16] Um, I guess, yeah, my major lie to sell it was that I had just come up with it on the way to tribal council for me to flip my head. It wasn't premeditated. Yeah. Like it, like a change of heart. And the reason that landed was that I essentially had done that before. And I told Tini, um, although it's probably voting for Genevieve instead of Kyle. I think, I think. Which I also don't believe you thought about on the way to council last week.

[01:26:45] I didn't think of, like, I thought about it, but it's on the way to tribal. And then I told Tini that. On the way to tribal three days prior. Because that's not what people expected. Yeah. Well, and so that's kind of like. And then he believed it. That goes into Tini's relationships being so important to the, the construct of the game at that time. And like this move in particular, because, um, you know, another factor as well, Mike, you asked about the reward earlier. Um, and Tini feeling hurt, uh, about my reward choices. But a big part of that was.

[01:27:13] Genevieve and I kind of had this trio with Tini that was fake to Tini and kind of fake to me. I think it was very ideal for Genevieve. Um, I like my only two friends. I mean, it's like I said, I'm trying to pull an Andy rather than Teenie. I think Teenie wants no part of it, but does want to stay in with Genevieve. So I think that was kind of a thing where Genevieve's walking up with the idol and

[01:27:41] the three of us are all talking together about the idol as if it's the three of us against them and as if Genevieve and I are not with Andy at all and we're actually with Teenie. So much so that the underdog majority had more concern about Teenie flipping and coming with us than they did Andy. At that time, and they were really concerned about Teenie. But I think we ended up telling Teenie, hey, we're voting for Caroline, which started Teenie's reaction to maybe wanting to actually do it and proposing it to Andy.

[01:28:12] And so what you then see is after the vote, there is this world, right, where I tell Genevieve at Tribal, play the idol, play the idol, Genevieve, do it. And she says, no, I trust Teenie because it's under this idea that we're all voting together and Teenie is helping us. And so there were kind of layers when we got back where Teenie's mad at Genevieve for not playing the idol. Teenie's mad at Andy for flipping and doing it in the moment.

[01:28:41] Now, I'm mad at Teenie because I realized, hey, you thought Genevieve was playing the idol. So you wanted me to go home. And we were kind of like creating these like webs of and then Genevieve's mad at Andy for being like, so you were actually going to vote for me the whole time. And then flipped at the last moment. It was like these webs of everybody's mad at everybody. But most of the conversations were just fake improv to kind of keep our world intact after the fallout.

[01:29:05] I just have a very vivid memory now of sitting on the beach that night and Teenie being like, I just can't believe we're so lucky it all worked out. And I just like didn't even say a word because I felt like such a POS. Like it's those ones where like the rubber meets the road and it's fun. But then you're like, oh, like, yeah, absolutely. Shout out to Teenie. We love you, Teenie. Shout out. Love you so much. He got his revenge. He got his revenge. He got his revenge. And he had a great moment with the double take upon seeing that idol, Genevieve, where

[01:29:34] he looks away and then looks back. It's it. He'll play in sync or would be putting it mildly. Shout out to Rachel, too, who was then secretly eavesdropping on all of this. Right. Yeah. Yeah. This entire conversation, this entire improv conversation. Yeah. Rachel's in the bushes. Oh, I'm audience. It's so believable. You alluded to this beforehand because I remember talking about this at the time that I thought it was such like a beautiful yet such a brilliant moment of, yeah, Sam, Genevieve, it looks like you're going to play the idol on Sam. And you're like, no.

[01:30:03] Or it was one of those things where one of you said, like, no, I'll take the bullet. Whatever happens, happens. So that was entirely planned out. You were planning to do that in the lead up or did that come spur of the moment? Yeah. I told Genevieve that I was going to I don't remember when we decided to do that. He was like, I'll tell you to play it. You say no, no. It will just add to the narrative of like you really have this idol. And that was for afterwards, right? It was this idea of like if we make a spectacle of the idol, it makes it more believable at

[01:30:28] six if we need it, that Genevieve still has this idol that's very real and it kind of maintains its appearances kind of to my demise almost at final five where everybody thought the idol was real for a little too long. But it was yeah, that was part of like planning for the fallout. The thing that has really I guess I didn't know. And we knew Sam Fallon famously a theater kid. I didn't know how much this was scripted. Like I knew there was a lot of planning. I didn't know there was as much.

[01:30:58] And then I'll say this and then you say this and then I'll say this. And like the actual dialogue was really pre-written on a lot of this. I don't want to say the dialogue. Go ahead. Sam's a performer. Andy is methodical. And I'm a cynicist. So you like get this combo of people who want to just like over and over and over again, like go through it. Yeah, it was a good combo. I think when it came. I don't know if it was the dialogue was like where you say this than this.

[01:31:28] But what like we did, I'm telling you, we did. We did improv practices of, hey, you're talking to Caroline at the well. Caroline asks you bluntly, who are you voting for? Go. And it's like just because you see so often, right, like plans fall apart because people aren't prepared to answer questions. They're not prepared to answer direct questions. They're not prepared to answer vague questions. They don't know how to behave and conduct themselves at tribal council. So they tip people off and say stick to the plan and all kinds of stuff.

[01:31:56] And you don't want to see your all your work go down in the sewer because you do that. And so I think we were just very intentional about trying to account for what our social interactions were going to look like and being prepared to have something in those in those situations. Yeah, I think the preparation was the secret sauce to it. I really don't think the move would have happened without, I think, the level of detail that we went into. So, yeah.

[01:32:21] I think also it is like from working with different people in different styles, as much as I questioned, is Andy for real? I don't think I ever questioned, could Andy pull this off? Like his role? Could he do his role? 100%. Like the capability is there for every person, whereas sometimes you're working with someone and you're like, but I don't really know that that's the job for you. Where it was like, this is exactly the job for you. Exactly. The job for you.

[01:32:48] So it also, like, I don't know if you guys feel differently, but I never, if it was going to happen, I didn't worry that, oh, I need to babysit Sam to get this done. Yeah. I was, the only thing I was like surprised by was how good at art you were. Like I was, I mean, I knew you painted. I saw you doing your watercolors in pregame. You're like, I'm going to make a fake idol. My expectations for the idol were like here, where I thought we might be able to pull it off.

[01:33:14] And you were, I mean, the second you showed it to me, I'm like, dude, this is really, really good. Okay. So that's when my, I trust their capabilities. Clearly it was not reciprocal. No, no, no. It was, it was. It was, yeah. Capabilities and everything. But like, I truly didn't know it was capable to make a fake idol that looked that similar to a real idol. And I know that might not be saying a ton with like how idols are. Yeah, those idols are so bad. But it was, I would have bought it hook, line, and sinker if I was not clued in on the plan. How dare you, Jeremy?

[01:33:44] Billie Eilish is brewing in her tea right now. Don't speak her name. Don't speak her name. Yeah, thank you, Andy. No, but I completely trusted you with the idol part of it. I spent very little time thinking about it or worrying about if the fake idol is going to work. I'm just like, Genevieve's got it. And yeah. So I think we're all playing. And if she doesn't, see ya. Yeah, right. Not his butt. Were there any curveballs that were thrown at Tribal Council, though? I mean, you were able to, for lack of a better term, stick to the plan.

[01:34:11] But was there anything going on either in the room or stuff that Jeff asked or things that people said that made you feel for a second like, could we pull this off? I was worried for a moment that Andy was going to spoil it. There were, there was, Andy was sometimes not great at Tribal. What? In my opinion. I don't know. I don't have that read. Like in what regards? I worked, I worked with Andy on a, on two very big blind sides on the season where we were, were kind of doing stuff.

[01:34:40] I think Andy gets a little giddy sometimes about the fact that he's got something cooking, you know, because we're doing the thing. And I'm like, Jeff, I'm at the end of my rope. And Genevieve's like, well, this is so sad. And it was kind of just like a hemming and hawing waiting for us to get caught. And then Andy was kind of like, you never know what irons are on the fire and what's cooking. I did not say that. I'm like, Andy, shut up. No. I did not. No. I did not. We don't, you act like I trust. I think, I will say, here's what I will, here's what I will say.

[01:35:07] I think that your read on my intentions is like, was way higher than a lot of people's in the game. How I was positioning my answers to travel council. I remember my stance though, at that travel council was like, because Jeff was pounding this idea that the scramble was like very calm and like a, just like a, on an asshole. And you never know. Because we talked about, hey, what was the afternoon like? And we talked about, you know, going fishing.

[01:35:37] There wasn't much talk and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. So my meaning was just like, from my perspective, it's cut and dry. And that makes me nervous. Cause I don't know if someone else is planning something, but you never know how people read different answers at travel council. So, but I will say, I mean, to that point though, like, in my opinion, it wasn't an eventful travel council perspective. I don't think anyone would say anything real. The real thing that was coming out was like them being mad about the reward, the reward choices. Yeah.

[01:36:07] Yeah. Which didn't make me feel great, but you know, when, when you get to the, cause you know, in my head, I'm like, well, Genevieve might go home or we might pull this off. I guess there's a world where I go home, but that's only if like Andy's not with me and he's actually like flipping on me. And then Jeff spends most of the tribal council talking about how worried I might be that I pissed everybody off about the reward. It's never good when the intentions on you, but from the questions they're trying to get the, the setup to the,

[01:36:36] the edit so they can show me looking concerned while everybody votes. Yeah. It's a weird spot for Jeff because I feel like, I think he probably wants the action at tribal council always, but I would have to imagine he's pretty tapped in on what you three are working on. So I think that he's probably got a sense like, well, that's good. That would be good if this happened, but he actually doesn't know how everybody's going to vote when you get up to the voting booth. So maybe it's a flop.

[01:37:06] So yeah, Jeff isn't, he's not ignorant to the plans at the beach that they're happening on the beach, but he really just lives in the moment. I don't like, he knows little things. He doesn't know the details really. Um, and for him, he just tries to read body language and cues and whatnot. So, um, I mean, that's, that's his approach. Yeah. I think it's tough for players too. Like, I think it's hard because you know, Jeff wants stuff.

[01:37:34] Like you, it's not fun to be the person that's showing up at travel being like, I got nothing, no irons on the fire. Jeff, I'm going home this week. Like, you don't want to be that guy every week, but sometimes you're like, I have to commit to this. Cause I don't want to be the guy going. You'd be surprised how many of these people are flipping on there a lot. Like that's the good stuff for TV. It's so bad for your game. And I think that's hard because you want to give him what he wants. All right. Go ahead, Mike.

[01:38:02] Well, I was going to say, Andy, you are, uh, definitely one of the most unique voters. I think I've ever seen in survivor history. It feels like you bring a little, everything out of the, uh, you know, the variable bag of tricks. You know, you have that. I think you spoke German during one vote. This one I noticed, did you write the phonetic pronunciation of Caroline underneath her name? I absolutely did. I did. I'm glad you picked that up. Um, yeah. Like, well, I think one of my things, the reason I did that was I showed people the international,

[01:38:31] international phonetic alphabet, the IPA, um, in the sand, the different conversations. People knew I was like, I like linguistics. Um, I was studying linguistics. Um, but it was like, it was like, you wanted to sign it. Andy. It was my calling card. Andy. It was my calling card. It was my calling card. And my first conversation with Caroline was spelling out her name in the sand in the, in the IPA. So it was like a callback personal to Caroline in a, I intended it to be in a sweet way, even though, you know, choose the target of the vote. Um, but then I wanted to do my, Andy.

[01:39:02] That too. That too. I also wanted it to be a kill shot. I wanted it to be magazine cutouts. I wanted, there were enough people who knew about the IPA stuff that like, I wanted it to be the last vote read out and to have sort of my markup. Yeah. It's your calling card. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what, what was the reaction now that the votes were quite literally spelled out? I mean, you spoke a little bit about teeny, but like Saul is shown on the jury saying like, Andy did that. Did you get the sense that that was what everyone immediately figured out?

[01:39:31] And did you feel some immediately heat on you, Andy, as soon as, you know, Caroline gets up and starts to go? You mean the players in the game still? Yeah. Um, yeah, they knew it was me and there was no hiding that it was going to be my vote. I had, we had no intention of like pretending it was someone else or just so few people. Um, and I wanted, I wanted it to be known and I don't know my, my focus was just on what I would say as a means of damage control. And I focused that on only a couple of people.

[01:40:01] Um, probably to probably, um, not as much as I could have with some other people. Right. It's like, like Sue is pissed. Sue is really predictable. I don't know if there would have been anything you could say to Sue, you know what I mean? So it's like in terms of focusing your efforts and damage control. Yeah. She's just like, I'm going to bed. What the F was that? I'm going to kill him. I wanted to do Kyle in that moment, Andy. Yeah.

[01:40:29] I just, in a, in a sort of focus way, I wanted to, uh, do all, almost all my damage control on teeny. And so that's where I put my, um, put my energy. But, um, like to that point, like there weren't, it was my intention, right. For that to be a move, right. That was something that I, that I did. And I wanted it to be something that shook up the dynamics. So I didn't want to shy away from, from credit for it.

[01:40:55] And I think my reasoning behind that was conventionally, if you take a lot of credit for a move, it's just going to skyrocket your threat level. I think given the details and given where I was in the game and the perception I've been given out and whatever, like that didn't even happen. And I think that was kind of another good kicker in terms of sort of intentionality with what I wanted to do next. It was, I wanted to have my cake and eat it too, really.

[01:41:20] We're like claim a move and still really not have the fourth highest threat level in the game at the final six. So it's like, um, I felt good in that sense. And to that point, like if, if things went differently at the final six, we'll put it this way, right? Like I don't think it, uh, raised my threat level in a bad way, even with the people who I, who I pissed off. Like I fully agree.

[01:41:49] Genevieve and Sam were much bigger fish fry shields in front of me. Um, the only way it was you in any hot water is if Genevieve and I tried to actively throw you under the bus. But I certainly think you came away from the vote in a spot where realistically you could recover standing with Rachel and Tini in a way that they would not have been like wanting to vote you out after, after you made that move. And so long story short, like to then be eliminated at the final six came down to gameplay at the final six.

[01:42:17] So I don't think it was, uh, it wasn't fallout of operation Italy. Um, it was just this, you know, the specifics of the final six and the, and the idol that we didn't know about. So do you guys think that from a logistics perspective and sorry to get meta show on stuff because new era appropriate. Yeah. Sorry. Because we had laid out our plan in such great detail the night before.

[01:42:43] I do feel like there was not a bunch of cameras in our face around the campfire, particularly when I was trying to steal the paint. Cause I was hyper aware because we had spoken so much about where the guys would stand that I feel like the cameras gave us so much space where sometimes they're like in and around the shelter and they're getting stuff cause they are responding in real time. And I feel like, because we had like, you know, openly brainstormed about our choreography

[01:43:11] as well that they didn't react so obviously with camera angles and it just was like standing back. So we could move a lot more discreetly. Do you feel that? Or was I just being hyper paranoid? I don't, I don't know. Um, I do think though it's a good thought because I think it was something I was hyper aware of playing the huge variable that you don't think about as a fan before you go is like, it's

[01:43:38] really hard to be subtle when a boom guy and a camera like are trudging everywhere you go. Like you can't exactly tiptoe out of camp. I don't know how they've done that in the past when people have had to like sneak away from camp, I would be terrified that the other dude is going to wake everybody up. Um, but I do know, obviously like they're taking notes of what we're planning. Uh, they kind of tell you before you play, there's one of like the production notes of, Hey, if you're going to go sneak off into the woods to find an idol, you can let a producer

[01:44:07] know ahead of time and we'll send a camera out there to meet you somewhere so that we're not having like, you can be sneaky if you're being intentional about laying that out for them. So I do think it's possible that, um, you know, our, our, uh, nighttime producer buddy was, uh, I won't say his name. Won't dox him like that, but, uh, that he was taking notes. He knows who he is. He knows who he is. He's one of my favorites. He is one of my favorites. Um, that he was, was taking notes to like relay to the people the next day so that they

[01:44:36] kind of knew, Hey, be on the lookout for this stuff, but don't blow up their spot. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's two things. Well, I mean, first of all, within the constraints, it is difficult, right? For them to capture everything in a subtle way, but their masters at it. Like I came out of that extremely impressed with their ability to do that. I mean, maybe more perceptive people caught tells. I don't think I caught a tell. Um, even though you're, you're, you are like aware of that or like trying to suss that out in the game. So they're, they are really good at that.

[01:45:05] Um, I also think pragmatically, it's just always good to, to Sam's point, like play ball with them. Like, I just think that without them, you know, like they're just, they're just standing and they're observing and they're following the story. Um, if anything, I think that they felt so happy to kind of be in on track it, but tell that story in the real time, be in on it, be part of the conspiracy.

[01:45:33] As much as, um, I want to give them full credit. They don't interfere in any way. Right. But it's like, I don't, I think they would really not want to interfere with it. Right. So, um, I think that's kind of a, another layer to it, but no, I mean, yeah, it's probably hard, but they, I don't think they gave anything. I mean, no doubt. I mean, you took advantage of all of the tools at your disposal and you kept them in the conversation and so that they could be able to tell that story.

[01:46:02] And this wasn't like a, Oh, well, I don't trust the producers. So I'm not telling them what our plans are. You all three seem to have implicit trust in the producers that you weren't worried that this plan was going to get screwed up by looping in production. And I think that you were rewarded with an all time episode. Is that different Rob from your experience or has it evolved over time? Like I, it wouldn't even have ever occurred to me to not a hundred percent like trust the

[01:46:30] producer or like, has that relationship shifted over time? It seems like I, and maybe Mike can speak to this more. I don't think you even get on the show if you're somebody who doesn't trust production. Whereas I think that in old school survivor, I think that there were certainly people, maybe a handful on each season was like, I'm not telling you anything. I mean, yeah, you don't want to go full bolt. Right. I think it's also, it's, you know, we've come a long way right from Colleen Haskell's confessional and Borneo being like, I just realized we're all in a game show.

[01:46:59] You know, I think that much like in those early days where maybe players were on a similar level than Jeff in terms of the way they regard each other. And now he's sort of become a little bit more of a, a figure on the island that everyone kind of plays around. And with that's kind of the same thing with production too, where I think you're coming into the game, as you mentioned, Rob, but I think an implicit sense of this is the way things work and that, listen, the show has had 50 seasons now of, I would say a relatively

[01:47:25] good record in terms of not giving away the ghost or meddling too much in the affairs of things. So they kind of have a historical precedent to speak upon. All right. Operation Italy. Thank you all so much for talking this through. This was so fun to hear all your perspectives on it. Let me go. Andy, anything you want to tell people about these days? I'm just living life, living, living normal, real life. I'm going to be real. I don't even post anymore. I don't do any social media. It's over.

[01:47:55] It's not over, over, but I just don't, I don't know. I don't mean you. I mean social media. Is social media over? Now that's a, that's a deeper question. I don't know. Waste your time. But we'll see if I get active again, but you know, no one has to rush to follow me. Genevieve, are you posting more than Andy now? Well, I'm also just living life. You know, in my influencer era, I have a public account that I think is probably as dormant

[01:48:23] as Andy's, but Andy, I'm going to come to New York in a couple of weeks. So maybe we'll do a post. I heard a little bird coming out. Go live. All right, let's do it. Yeah. I'm down for that. Now, Sam, you're not quitting social media, right? Social Sam. Yeah, no, unfortunately not. It's, it's a lot of baseball, a lot of baseball on the social media for me. Um, you know, comes with the job, but you've got to love it too. We're, we're getting to the home stretch.

[01:48:50] I will say, uh, I'll tease, um, Genevieve, can I tease a thing? Oh, oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Play resolve. Also play resolve. Play resolve. And, you know, like I was feeling particularly, um, traitorious recently.

[01:49:14] So I would just keep an eye out for any kind of like traitorious thing that, that might've happened. This is really overselling it, Sam. This is making it sound like you are on the traders. Hmm. So, okay. So that might be true. Keep our eyes peeled. Operation Scotland. Okay. No colon, please. Yeah. No. Sheep's colon. Okay.

[01:49:39] No, I, I, uh, I, let's just say I collaborated on an operation with my, uh, fellow Operation Italy collaborator, Genevieve on a, uh, traitors project. Um, that will be, uh, it's a, it's a game and it's got some of, some of your survivor faves in it, some, some people that you've never met. It was videotaped, uh, and we produced it and hosted it and, um, it'll be out at some point at some point it will be out. So I'm going to really see backyard.

[01:50:09] It was very official and it was a matchup of traders and million dollar secret. And we made up a game and Sam fluent and hosted. And we had, like you said, some survivor players and some normies. Yeah. Okay. A mixed season. Mixed season. And we'd love to have you next year. New game design. And he's already. It is annual. Really? This is season two, but this is, uh, this is the first season that will be put out online.

[01:50:37] Never before seen game design, uh, taking place and it, it, it films in Canada. So I hope you have a passport. Okay. And I'm cutting it on iMovie. Cause I did a project in grade eight on iMovie and that's all I know how to do. From like 18 different camera angles. So good luck. It was incredible. All right. Mike Bloom. Oh, what's coming up for you? Well, we've got some survivor to talk about Rob. Cause he mentioned it a couple of times. Survivor 51.

[01:51:06] The open era preseason is officially open. Uh, no interviews this time, but I'm going to do my best detective work to try to figure out who these people are. No interviews. Yeah. Yeah. What the hell, right? Listen, uh, from the hell guys, uh, but I, I, I'll, the podcast will be out at this point where we're going to do, uh, you know, cast preview podcast, getting into seven people at a time. But I should mention that there is one person on the cast who all three of you know, or at least we're in the vicinity of all.

[01:51:36] Genevieve was painting watercolors. Uh, do you have anything you'd like to talk about? Christian Chavez, any perceptions you picked up in Ponderosa from him? I have one. So before the game, you meet at Ponderosa with the producers and they say, you know, feeling ready. Anyone standing out to you. And, uh, CC was the person I said is standing out to me and someone I'd really want to play with. Oh yeah. I think you told me that as well. If I remember correctly. So yeah, he, what he made a positive first impression on me.

[01:52:06] So did he laugh at all? I heard he has both the best laugh in survivor history. She did make a friend. Okay. And he was taken from me immediately. Oh my God. Maybe that was the first domino. If that didn't happen, it would have all gone differently. Um, I liked him a lot. He had a, a mask on with a mustache design on it. And I think that left a really, that was all I had in my notebook was mustache mask boy. And he was reading a book about the good place.

[01:52:36] NBC show. A book about the TV show, the good place. A book about the TV show. The good place. Yes. I didn't know what to make of that, but I liked him. Okay. All right. Well, thank you all so much for joining us here on the survivor time trip. What a, uh, fun trip back to survivor 47. We will come back once again and go through the annals of survivor history with you on survivor time trip. Take care of a good one. Bye. Bye. Bye.