Debating the Survivor 50 Fan Vote

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[00:00:29] Hey, Rob Sestradino here. We got a little bit of a special segment that I wanted to drop on you. This is from my podcast with Zach Wurtenberger the other night. We've changed the schedule around. I'm doing the know-it-alls back on Wednesday with Steven. And then on Thursday, I'm doing more of a traditional long-form interview. And we're trying to add some fun stuff into these Thursday interviews.

[00:00:53] And one of the things that we did, I had wanted to do this for a little bit, sort of like an ESPN first take idea of it's time to vote for the Survivor 50 twists that are in the hands of the fans. And so what you're about to hear is my conversation with Zach Wurtenberger as we invited his brother, Corey Wurtenberger. They are both expert debaters.

[00:01:16] And so we had a little bit of a debate club exercise as Zach and Corey debated the four questions that Survivor wants to know as Survivor 50 is in the hands of the fans. If you like what you heard, go back and check out the full interview with Zach Wurtenberger in the podcast feed. It's all up on YouTube or at WeKnowSurvivor.com. Oh, look, we have somebody here at the podcast door. Look who it is.

[00:01:47] Corey Wurtenberger is here. Wow. This is crazy. What am I doing here? Corey. Okay. Well, what we wanted to do is we had this idea of that. I was going to debate Zach about the things that people can vote on for Survivor 50. But then we talked about how the Wurtenberger brothers are both incredible debaters.

[00:02:13] And we said, well, what if there was a Wurtenberger debate over the things people can vote on for Survivor 50? Yeah. Wow. Are you up for that, Corey? I'm beyond up for it. I mean, there's nothing that Survivor players like more than Big Brother players commenting on their game. Well, there's also, but there's two Survivor players here. I suppose. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and Zach said he would flip a coin.

[00:02:39] So you're not even necessarily arguing what you believe. Yeah. I just voted. Well, you don't have to. Yeah. And that way then the stands won't get mad at you for like your, your presenting the opinion that they don't believe in. You might actually believe in it. You might be debating something that you actually feel very strongly against. Yeah. Rob, don't get mad. Well, when they clip it out of context. I know. For sure. Yeah. That's, that will happen. And.

[00:03:09] Exactly. Yeah. I'm going to get a DM from Eliza after this. It is what it is. Hey, that's the cost of doing business. Okay. All right. Got it. Let's do it. All right. Let's do it. So. All right. So this is, we've got a great question. First of all, Corey, how are you doing? I'm doing well. Zach and I are having a great podcast. I can tell. We're at hour 34. No. Corey, where's the. We're only like 90 minutes in. Yeah. Corey, where's America? Can she come in and say hi? Not, not quite.

[00:03:39] She, she didn't watch the premiere. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Don't spoil her. Okay. All right. And that we're able to, you know, we want to, it's survivor 50s in the hands of the fans. Okay. Here, let me go. I'll go in the middle here. Uh, first in, in the hands of the fans.

[00:04:02] And so this first question that we're going to let people, let's start with the players buffs. Choose the tribe colors that you would like to see for survivor. Now there's three options for this one. I don't know how we do this. I guess I have to debate one of the three. And then we'll, I assume this will be a fans vote after like they'll decide the winner of each debate. I guess the fans go, the fans can decide what they want. Okay.

[00:04:32] So how do we do that? Zach, how do we do this with there's three different options? The first option. A is blue, orange, and green. Option B is our oranges back this time with teal and purple. And option C is like a, a more of a neon green, red and yellow. Uh-huh. Uh, okay. How are we going to divide this one up? Let's just have Sam, Sam, if you can choose. Uh, well, I guess maybe for that, then let's just do in the order that we're in ABC.

[00:05:02] Sure. Okay. So, Corey, you have to argue. Let's like reverse the order though. Let's reverse the order though. You want, you want C? I'm going to take C. Okay. All right. I'll be B. Whatever. Okay. I can do anything. All right. How much time do I have? How much time do we have? I think we do a minute each on the color. 60 seconds on the clock. Yeah. Okay. Sam, can you keep the time on this? Okay. All right. All right.

[00:05:30] Zach, you're up first to talk about blue, orange, and green as the buffs. Mm-hmm. Yeah. All right. Guys, you know we're doing three tribes again. Blue, orange, and green holds a special place to my heart. I'm doing this a personal argument. These were the colors of Survivor 42. Now, let me ask you. Why would we want to use the same colors, especially considering that the orange even looks red? I don't know.

[00:05:59] I really hate it. I really hate this one. I think that let's look at the colors below it. Okay. You got some purple in there. Blue and purple. Classic combination. Orange and yellow. I cede my time. Okay. All right. I have to go in orange, teal, and purple. Okay. All right. These colors are hot. Okay. That teal is fluorescent. Okay.

[00:06:28] The 90s are back. Big, bright, bold colors for Survivor 50. You could imagine all of your faves wearing these beautiful colors. Everybody's going to look great. It's the choice of young people, but then there's also a purple, a classic. I vote for option B. I vote for option B. Wow.

[00:06:57] You guys have really made some good arguments. It's going to be tough to face. Tell us, Corey. Why should people vote for green, red, and yellow? We don't have ugly ass orange. Are you kidding me? That's going to be the ugliest buff color I've ever seen. There's kind of two camps of Survivor fans. There's the, we want old school Survivor back and shut up. You're annoying. New school is fine. Option B is like, it reminds me a lot of Cambodia with that like ugly fuchsia and the weird like cyan.

[00:07:26] This is really what we want. We want this weird middle era with voting blocks. It's either time to take a step forward or make that homage to season one, that yellow. Is that taggy? Taggy yellow? I feel like it's a nice all-encompassing picture of what Survivor 50 is supposed to represent. I use my time. Yeah. Can I? So Corey like basically cheated by deciding that he wanted C, which was the best one, in my opinion. Can I make my argument for C as a genuine pitch? Okay. Yes.

[00:07:54] And the reason why I like C the best, and I think A is terrible, honestly. No ugly ass orange? Is that what it is? This is actually my one, because Corey cheated, is these are the original all-star colors. And I think that's very cool for a throwback for the 50th season. Hmm. I would argue that the green was, the Mogo, Mogo green was a little darker. Mm-hmm. This is where I think we should really just be able, they should just give us a color wheel

[00:08:23] and let us like put our mouse on what she- That makes me want to vote against Option C also, by the way. Okay. Yeah. Vote against Shapiro. Yes. Yes. Okay. All right. Yes. Did you see, Zach, that they mentioned Survivor of the Amazon in a flashback? I did. I did. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It was, it was Mitch talking about kind of like seeing himself on the show. Yes. That was very nice. Is Mitch deaf himself?

[00:08:52] I don't believe so. I think he just has a speech impediment. I don't believe that it is anything to do with his hearing. Okay. Okay. All right. Next up. All right. Now that was the warmup rice or no rice. Okay. Here's the question that we have. Okay. And so this is the framework camp life exclamation point. Do you want to make it a bit easier on the tribes and let them start with a supply of rice

[00:09:21] or do you want them to earn their rice throughout or through effort or sacrifice? Option A is give them rice. Option B is make them earn rice. Okay. Do we have a coin to flip? How will we decide this? I'll just let Sam Moore decide. Sam. Yeah. Yeah. I'm good with either. Okay. Sam. Give them rice. Corey is. Okay. So Zach is going to be representing.

[00:09:51] Give them rice. And we'll give you two minutes on this one. You don't have to use all your time. I went first last time. So would it be okay if Corey went first? Yes. You went first and last last time. To be fair. Oh, yeah. But I'll go first. Okay. All right. Corey's going to represent. Make them earn rice. 26 days. You can't do 26 days without rice. Zach might not be able to answer objectively.

[00:10:20] He did three days without rice. He does not exactly have a basis for comparison. I was a have not for three weeks. It was challenging. Granted, in Big Brother, eating is not a massive part of the experience. In Survivor, if we're doing a 26-day resort stay, you go to the sanctuary every other episode, and you get rice off the start, what are we even doing? I would petition to just do a spring season of Big Brother and throw them in. That's basically what we're watching. I don't want that. I'm a Survivor fan. Make them earn it. Let's do it.

[00:10:50] Okay. Zach, why should the Survivors get rice? I got two arguments here. I've got an argument for the people who like the Survivors and an argument for the people who don't. Okay? Number one argument, give them the rice for the people who like the Survivors. This is not a 26-day game. Okay? I have heard from people who are going through this whole thing, they are so miserable.

[00:11:19] It is the worst experience ever to be in Survivor casting. Okay? They are literally every single night losing sleep. The game has already started for them. Okay? They are so, so, so messed up. Okay? Let them have freaking rice when they're there. And then they're going to go on the show and they're going to ruin their legacy. And then everyone's going to hate them after they love them. It's going to be a horrible experience for 90% of them.

[00:11:49] Why not make it a little bit better for these people? Give them rice. For the people who hate the Survivors, which I'm specifically talking about the old schoolers who say that it's so easy. This is another thing that you're going to have over them. Right now, we can say that we didn't get rice. Okay? And that is a big notch on our belt. Okay. That's time. Okay. Corey, do you have a rebuttal? My main argument that I think Zach forgot to make was, if we don't give them rice, we're

[00:12:17] going to have to watch a segment about them earning the rice. And I don't want to watch that. That's pretty. I don't want to watch a negotiation. Angelina, maybe. All right. Okay. All right. Next up, we have a vote on final four fire making. Okay. Yeah. It's like this. I love to have a word of these questions. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Let's get into some gameplay.

[00:12:46] The final four fire making showdown has delivered some of the most dramatic moments in Survivor history, but not every fan is on board. Where do you stand? Okay. We have first keep it. It gives players control of their destiny or lose it. Let them vote someone out just like the early seasons. Okay. Who is going to be taking which position? Zach, you could pick. I'm happy with either.

[00:13:18] Okay. I'll make. Well, and then will I, I'll go first. I want Sam to flip a coin or you guys got this. I want Sam to flip a coin. I don't want to. Okay. Sam's going to flip a coin. Okay. Just flip it in the chat. Well, like heads or tails. I don't know. All right. I can't tell. It never fails. All right. Where's your tail? All right. It is heads. Okay. All right, Zach, what do you want? All right. Then I'm going to do, I'm going to do get rid of fire making. All right. All right.

[00:13:48] So. Seems like a layup. Okay. Corey, you're going to start. Yeah, let's do it. Okay. Keep it. Oh my God. We all hate fire making. And yet the new era has produced a great crop of winners. Does anybody see this cognitive dissonance? Why do you think it is that since fire making has been put into place, we've maybe had one super dissatisfying winner of nine seasons. I, the whole premise is okay. You don't get them out of final four. Now you get that, get them out of final five.

[00:14:16] Outside of Omer, has that actually happened? The goal of fire making was to do two things. Make the more deserving players, get to final tribal more, more reliably. And two, to make closer votes in that final three. And it's done both things. Just because we had an opinion when the twist was introduced and it was introduced in a very unfair manner. Doesn't mean we can't change our opinions based on the abundance of new information we've received. The twist worked. I don't love it, but it worked and I'm willing to admit it. Okay. Zach. Zach.

[00:14:46] Yeah. I think the argument against fire making is actually really clear. It's just pushed these targets getting pushed earlier. It's also making it so that like social gameplay is a lot less valuable. Rob does have Carson winning. Carson would be a survivor winner if there wasn't fire making. I just want to throw that for the casuals. I just want to say, you know, Carson 100% wins that season. If there's no fire making, you know, something. Yeah. And it's produced some great moments, I will admit.

[00:15:15] But you know what's great about having a vote? You still sometimes get the fire making. And it actually is a special thing when that happens. And it's going to be really fun to watch these people play not knowing if there's fire making. And then especially when there's not. Yeah. You know, as we're talking it through that, not to put my finger on the scale, but really the final four fire making really hasn't mattered. Like it did like for Gabler and Chris Underwood.

[00:15:44] But, you know, all the other people like didn't even get involved with the final four fire making all the other winners in the world. Well, who goes home in 46 without fire making? Because I kind of think it's Kenzie. Who goes home in 46? If it's what it was. It's Liz, Ben. Ben, Charlie, Liz, Kenzie. I think Kenzie does. Hmm. Hmm. Um, it might be a two to tie and it might have to end up being fire making there.

[00:16:14] That's why I kind of feel like lose it. And then half the time you get it anyway, when they have a two to vote. Right. Like that's where that's my evolved feeling on it. I will say I will. If I'm going to give fire making any credit winners at war fire making is genuinely one of the most dramatic moments in survival. Yes. Yes. Yes. I forgot that one. I forgot that one. Tony, Tony, one that made the fire and one. Um, so I just don't know if I believe the, uh, the bigger threats are pushed earlier

[00:16:41] and obviously survivor is masterful in the way they edit a lot of deserving winners. So like, it always feels like we have enough threats towards the end, but like, sure, you might lose a Genevieve, but you still have Sam and Rachel. How big of a threat was Sam? Actually, no one really knows. So it's like, I think that premise was always what I believed. My biggest problem with fire making by far is just, you can idle at five fire making it for like, there has to be one round, I think where you have to get through honest survivor. Whatever. Okay. Yeah. All right. And then one more question.

[00:17:11] Vote reveal in Los Angeles or Fiji. Okay. Looking ahead dot, dot, dot. Should we bring back the live finale and reunion show in Los Angeles or keep the winner reveal and after show in the jungles of Fiji? Corey, Los Angeles or keep it in Fiji. Corey, you took the harder one last time. I'm willing to take, keep it in Fiji. If you're willing to take LA, we might have to keep it in Fiji's then.

[00:17:38] Oh, this is, are you kidding me? Okay. Well then we might have to flip the coin to see who has to take. Oh yeah. We're live in Los Angeles. All right. Let's let the coin. We got to keep there. Okay. All right. All right. Zach heads or tails. I'll stick with heads. Okay. Sam is in the, it looks like tails to me. Okay. Corey, you're going to get to keep it in Fiji. Oh yeah. Okay. All right.

[00:18:08] So Zach, you can go first live in Los Angeles. Uh, that says live in Los Angeles, but let me tell you what it says to me. I live in Los Angeles. So if the finale is here, then I get to go to that. That will be so fun. You know, it was a real bummer for the past, uh, you know, eight seasons that they didn't do this. It really felt like a piece of the survivor experience was missing.

[00:18:37] But that being said, like we missed a lot. I didn't get an intro sequence. You know, I didn't get my torch. I didn't get the 90 minute episodes. Okay. Us early new era people. We missed out on a lot. And I've moved on from that. The live in Los Angeles, it deserves it. It's there. We've had it for so long. It's great. It'll cost CBS a decent amount of money. And I think that that's kind of fun. I think that we should be charging up these people, especially if they're not giving us 39 days.

[00:19:06] So I say, let's let it rip. And then I want to be able to see, uh, I loved getting to see people after they've like come back home and they've like. Getting a little hair on. You know, we'll say Zach, uh, how many survivor alumni are you willing to have a sleep on your couch on your floor? How many alumni are crashing at your place?

[00:19:35] Um, I think it's anywhere between three to six, three to six. Okay. Depending on the alumni. All right. Yep. First to four is going to have the say there. Okay. All right. Corey. Hey, with me. Yeah. Well, let's just, let's just get this straight. Zach. You want a 26 day season where they get fed every day and then all the pre jurors get paid handsomely for their getting voted out early, showing up to the reunion.

[00:20:02] Like at a certain point, again, we're not doing survivor anymore. And most importantly, my, my seminal point, if you've ever been to these influencer get togethers, the reunion, there's going to be a lot of survivor, big brother alum in the building. It does more harm than good. You don't want to let that out there. These LA gatherings. I can't explain to you how damaging it will be to the survivor and big brother ecosystem. But if you've been to one of these events, you know, that damage will be there, especially if it's run by CBS.

[00:20:32] So this is my argument. Very simply put, we don't want to open that Pandora's box. Sorry for the big brother reference. And, uh, I rest my case. Okay. Yeah. Can I, uh, can I, can I, uh, rebut that? Yes. I think, I think the words and big brother, we're doing a lot of heavy lifting through that entire conversation. Uh, I've been to plenty of survivor things. We are not you. Okay. Jared's going to be there. Blue's going to be there. Jared's going to be there.

[00:21:03] Jared fields. Oh, okay. All of them. Everyone in LA, Bowie's going to be DJing. Yeah. The big brother. I will not let survivor be limited by big brother. It's going to be a tough ticket. Yeah. Unless he's not coming then. Yeah. Sorry. Oh, that's good. Don't deserve us. If you can't handle us at our Jared, you don't get us at our series. Yeah. Okay. All right. There you go.

[00:21:29] That's the survivor in the hands of the fans debate. So that's survivor. I T H O T F. That's what we're going with. Yeah. Okay. Well, Corey, thank you for popping in to help us debate what's on the minds of the fans. Thank you all. And to all the voters, uh, vote with your heart. Yes. Uh, Corey, uh, anything you want to tell people to check out?

[00:21:57] Uh, I stream just, you know, look up my name on Twitch and what's the figure by that lock. It's a, well, there's an astronaut and a dog and then there's John Locke. Yeah. John Locke. Okay. All right. My guy. Yeah. All right. We need to go back. Yeah. We have to go back. Exactly. To Los Angeles. There it is. Uh, appreciate you guys. Have a fun podcast. Okay. All right. Take over.